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Virtual Russian posted:I'm with everyone else that is skeptical, but I also always make a point of meeting people on the left no matter the org. I once sat through a Socialist Fightback meeting that included in an official capacity a twenty minute misinformed rant about the evils of post-modern theory. out of curiosity, what orgs have you been most impressed with? asking as relatively babby leftist
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Jul 12, 2020 01:10
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PhilippAchtel posted:But I chose to bring this here precisely because I wanted this kind of push back from CSPAM in particular, because while this place is cynical as hell, on the whole its instincts tend to be right. So what do you think? I think it's worth investigating. We had a brief discussion about that Briar Patch article criticizing DSC as branding a little while back, and while I think the article makes good points about how a big brand like the DSA (or the NDP in Canada) can be counterproductive to some organizing efforts that would be more successful if they just focused on specific local concerns, someone else raised a valid point that a successful national movement like DSA can help connect people from local issues and organizing to other issues and to larger movements. Like, what happens if your local organizing achieves its goal and gets the thing done? Do you all just disband and go home? An organization like DSA could theoretically help connect them to other causes and to national issues as well, but I think that would only work if it's a local chapter that's embedded with the community and tied in to activist leadership and advocacy on local issues so that it doesn't feel like people parachuting in on successful local organizing efforts to try and redirect their energy towards something else. If this fledgling DSC is going for decentralized and democratic organizational structure within a larger umbrella, it might not matter too much who the person at the top was at the beginning, if local chapters can do good work and maybe build up some organizing muscle. If you're going into organizing your KW chapter with that as the goal, I say go for it and I wish you well. If it ends up being more of a self-advancement and personal aggrandizement thing for the grifter at the top, though, then I'd say be prepared to take your organizing energy and apply it to something else instead. Don't get so invested that you're unwilling to abandon the name and the umbrella organization until you know what form the umbrella organization is going to take and what role the people at the top are going to play. I'm a KW native and would love to see an active DSC-type group in the area, under that or another name, if that group is going to be involved in meaningful local activism, not just serve as a vehicle for bored middle-class Trots to show up to other people's meetings and lecture them about how there's no war but class war. I don't live in the area anymore or I might be willing to get more involved, but I'll wish you good luck from afar.
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Jul 12, 2020 01:16
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gently caress COREY PERRY posted:out of curiosity, what orgs have you been most impressed with? asking as relatively babby leftist This might not be helpful, but I'm most impressed with unions. I was in the Canadian Food Commercial Workers Union years ago, now I'm trying to unionize my current workplace with their help. Unions are also good because they aren't full of people who already identify as leftists. Along union lines I also like the IWW, they provide good union training that is practical and applicable, though I don't go around advertising I'm a wobblie in my workplace, nor do I try to unionize with the IWW. However, the best one for you is likely whatever is available locally, just don't get sucked into internal politics and drama. I met some chill people at Fightback meetings, but I'm not about to become some weird Trotskyist screaming about post-modernism. Leftist groups have a lot of sectarian problems that hold us back, so avoid buying into the divisions. You can usually gauge a groups quality by how much time they spend talking about whats wrong with other leftists vs whats wrong with capital/the boss/police... Still, just get out there.
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Jul 12, 2020 03:03
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vyelkin posted:Bored middle-class Trots to show up to other people's meetings and lecture them about how there's no war but class war. Is this a KW thing? I've lived a number of places, never have i experienced so many outspoken trots in one place though. I say this as someone really sympathetic to Trotsky's writing and philosophy. I'd always heard the running jokes about Trotskyists, but never truly experienced them in the flesh acting out those jokes until I moved here.
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Jul 12, 2020 03:09
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PhilippAchtel posted:Yeah, this is a good catch, and something I read linked from this equally scathing article: i mean theres a diff between being pro israel and actively working for an israel sponsored propaganda project in dc. i'd be hesitant about about any project controlled by someone like that, likely has ties to intelligence agencies too
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Jul 12, 2020 04:34
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Beyond that I'm deeply suspicious of any socialist that believes non-profits should pay their employees/board-members/management massive salaries. In particular a perspective that deems a salary of 80k a year as an example of a tiny salary seems telling. The following quote stood out to me: “By limiting salaries, we are selling our missions short and preventing many of the best and most strategic minds from entering the field at all. Why go work for $80k at a nonprofit when you could go work for JP Morgan Chase and make $500k? You’d be foolish. Your gifts to charity now put you in directors chairs and wondering why we don’t get better performance out of the poor SOB making $80k a year.” To me this is someone that has accepted capitalism and greed as their default interior and exterior framework. In non-pandemic times I work at a non-profit, I make terrible money. However, I find my work there infinitely more rewarding then when I did the same work for nearly twice the money in the private sector. Just going into work and knowing that my labour isn't lining someone else's pockets is a value/feeling unparalleled in any job I've ever worked. If I made 80k a year it would be perfect. I cannot imagine how great my life would be. However, I'm happy knowing the institution's measly funding is enough to keep our small staff employed, as well as enrich the community through outreach and programming. Virtual Russian has issued a correction as of 05:28 on Jul 12, 2020 |
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Jul 12, 2020 05:26
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Virtual Russian posted:Beyond that I'm deeply suspicious of any socialist that believes non-profits should pay their employees/board-members/management massive salaries. In particular a perspective that deems a salary of 80k a year as an example of a tiny salary seems telling. The following quote stood out to me: That's a very telling quote. It reveals their inner ideology. The most talented people should want to work for the socialist party because improving your community is more important than your personal wealth. Why would you want opportunists running your socialist party? If the revolution succeeds you now have people in charge who care more about money than their fellow man. It also assumes that no one would ever choose a profession out of altruism. I guess I'm just an idiot for going to library school instead of learning how to code, eh? 
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Jul 12, 2020 11:48
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CommonShore posted:From what I've heard about docs and Alberta that number is probably low. Even if 42% is accurate, it will be skewing hard towards younger docs leaving, and the situation is even worse than that because basically no new grads are going there.
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Jul 12, 2020 17:02
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speaking of ditching Alberta, where the hell should someone go? the economy is bad across the planet so good luck finding any kind of job anywhere but it seems like a poor decision to remain in a province that's planning on obliterating health care in the middle of the great plague considering the job market is "nurses or shelf stockers" now and neither myself nor my wife have any health care education or training outside of first aid, where should we move where there's a surplus of openings for grocery jobs where that kind of pay can cover the bills?
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Jul 12, 2020 17:49
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I’m a Trot
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Jul 12, 2020 18:03
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littleorv posted:I’m a Trot hey no worries, I'm picking my way through Rev Betrayed for the first time in like 15 years and I have to say I agree with most of what he's saying. I have had odd (being charitable) experiences with trot orgs though, along with some of the people within those orgs.
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Jul 12, 2020 19:22
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Virtual Russian posted:hey no worries, I'm picking my way through Rev Betrayed for the first time in like 15 years and I have to say I agree with most of what he's saying. I have had odd (being charitable) experiences with trot orgs though, along with some of the people within those orgs. I'm a communist now but I'm not sure if there's a more accurate label for myself. I'm not an ancom or a tankie, and I don't necessarily agree with one theorist enough to label myself with a single name. Maybe Marxist-Leninist or Leftist or maybe I'm overthinking it.
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Jul 12, 2020 20:01
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blatman posted:considering the job market is "nurses or shelf stockers" now and neither myself nor my wife have any health care education or training outside of first aid, where should we move where there's a surplus of openings for grocery jobs where that kind of pay can cover the bills? I found a piece of crown land in Sudbury within walking distance of a dollar store and a Walmart. by the laws of Canada you can camp there as long as you don't build any permanent structures. thats where I'm moving. lol jobs no i wont tell you where it is, find your own crown land 
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Jul 12, 2020 20:45
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the "Wayfair child trafficking" conspiracy theory has 10x as much activity as the WE thing on Twitter in Canada
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Jul 12, 2020 20:57
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blatman posted:speaking of ditching Alberta, where the hell should someone go? the economy is bad across the planet so good luck finding any kind of job anywhere but it seems like a poor decision to remain in a province that's planning on obliterating health care in the middle of the great plague Move to Kingston. Prison / Government / Military / College towns are largely downturn resistant.
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Jul 12, 2020 21:07
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Juul-Whip posted:the "Wayfair child trafficking" conspiracy theory has 10x as much activity as the WE thing on Twitter in Canada https://www.thebeaverton.com/2020/07/trudeau-just-one-ethics-commissioner-investigation-away-from-free-ethics-commissioner-investigation/ What are you going to do about it? Not vote liberal? There's just no real recourse for it within the confines of electoralism.
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Jul 12, 2020 21:11
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At this point I don't see what Trudeau's naked corruption is supposed to matter to anyone. Nobody is surprised to see it, the other two parties will pretend to care for a bit but they won't be able to get anyone to give a poo poo really, it's too boring. Hell, nobody even really cared that the dude did blackface. Nobody cares about anything in this country.
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Jul 12, 2020 21:22
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I know it’s just funny to me. feels like the opposition to him has never been weaker
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Jul 12, 2020 21:25
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Juul-Whip posted:I know it’s just funny to me. feels like the opposition to him has never been weaker Opposition spent like 5 years making GBS threads their pants over things that didn't matter in the slightest amount to "get" Trudeau and when things that did matter happened, everyone was burnt out and the opposition was just white noise. Fashionable Jorts has issued a correction as of 21:35 on Jul 12, 2020 |
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Jul 12, 2020 21:33
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Turns out having nice hair gets you pretty far
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Jul 12, 2020 21:38
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cougar cub posted:Turns out having nice hair gets you pretty far Don't forget meaningless platitudes!
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Jul 12, 2020 21:51
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his hair has also never looked better. that’s no coincidence folks
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Jul 12, 2020 21:59
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Juul-Whip posted:I know it’s just funny to me. feels like the opposition to him has never been weaker He's riding high off an enormous wave of relief among Canadians that Covid has mostly died down despite running rampant south of the border, filling Canadian headlines with news about how thousands of Americans are dying from bad leadership. The opposition is incredibly weak right now because Trudeau is extremely popular.
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Jul 12, 2020 22:32
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Another Bill posted:College towns are largely downturn resistant. not now when all the classes are going to be online!
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Jul 12, 2020 23:10
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vyelkin posted:He's riding high off an enormous wave of relief among Canadians that Covid has mostly died down despite running rampant south of the border, filling Canadian headlines with news about how thousands of Americans are dying from bad leadership. The opposition is incredibly weak right now because Trudeau is extremely popular. Nah, they are weak because they are idiots. You are right that if the material conditions were worse then their racist/fascist rhetoric would be more acceptable and they would have a better chance at winning an election. That doesn't mean that it's not their fault for completely misjudging the current political situation in Canada and failing miserably because of it.
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Jul 13, 2020 02:06
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Lostconfused posted:Nah, they are weak because they are idiots. You are right that if the material conditions were worse then their racist/fascist rhetoric would be more acceptable and they would have a better chance at winning an election. That doesn't mean that it's not their fault for completely misjudging the current political situation in Canada and failing miserably because of it. Even with competent leadership, I don't think that the opposition parties would have had much of a chance at this particular point in time. Covid has led to a huge surge in support for whatever group happens to be in power in nearly every place outside the U.S. Hell, Doug Ford has surged in popularity.
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Jul 13, 2020 12:06
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apatheticman posted:Don't forget meaningless platitudes! "I want apatheticman to know this country stands with you. And, for this, I am truly sorry."
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Jul 13, 2020 12:38
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So what's going on with covid in Manitoba? Are they winning bigly or has provincial healthcare been hacked apart so badly they're just in the dark.
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Jul 13, 2020 16:23
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Somebody tell me how there's MarineLand commercials in a worldwide pandemic. I looked into it and their site says they're reopening July 17. Do they know something we don't know?
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Jul 13, 2020 16:43
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Shneak posted:Somebody tell me how there's MarineLand commercials in a worldwide pandemic. I mean, Disney World is already open again and Florida is getting more than 15,000 cases a day, so I'm pretty sure MarineLand thinks they can get away with Ontario's couple hundred daily cases
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Jul 13, 2020 16:50
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Thoth! posted:So what's going on with covid in Manitoba? Are they winning bigly or has provincial healthcare been hacked apart so badly they're just in the dark. There is lots of testing going on, and anyone cam get tested, so I think the zero cases is legit. None of the people I know with official knowledge have expressed any concern either. MB infrastructure is just weirdly and luckily built to be resistant to this kind of thing. Everything goes on in little community bubbles. Even Winnipeg is ridiculously spread out and decentralized, and rural mb takes that to a whole new level. So even if people are being dumb, the chance of them being unlucky on top of that is minute. Even if they get unlucky, it's unlikely to spread far. Look at that Brandon outbreak at the trucking company. People were idiots and did everything wrong at first and it still didn't go beyond 7. It's like trying to light fire to newspaper when you've covered it in wet sand.
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Jul 13, 2020 16:55
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vyelkin posted:I mean, Disney World is already open again and Florida is getting more than 15,000 cases a day, so I'm pretty sure MarineLand thinks they can get away with Ontario's couple hundred daily cases Not to mention MarineLand is the worst and if anyone is going to do something stupid and horrible then it's going to be them.
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Jul 13, 2020 17:04
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CommonShore posted:There is lots of testing going on, and anyone cam get tested, so I think the zero cases is legit. None of the people I know with official knowledge have expressed any concern either. Makes sense. I was talking to a coworker in Manitoba earlier and was kinda surprised at the difference in reported case numbers between Saskatchewan and them.
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Jul 13, 2020 17:34
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vyelkin posted:I mean, Disney World is already open again and Florida is getting more than 15,000 cases a day, so I'm pretty sure MarineLand thinks they can get away with Ontario's couple hundred daily cases Marineland will find some way to give Covid to a whale
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Jul 13, 2020 17:39
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enki42 posted:Even with competent leadership, I don't think that the opposition parties would have had much of a chance at this particular point in time. Covid has led to a huge surge in support for whatever group happens to be in power in nearly every place outside the U.S. Hell, Doug Ford has surged in popularity. Once again Alberta has to be the exception. Trudeau is currently more popular than Kenny.
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Jul 13, 2020 17:51
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Thoth! posted:So what's going on with covid in Manitoba? Are they winning bigly or has provincial healthcare been hacked apart so badly they're just in the dark. While the cases are low, Pallister has been bungling a slam dunk by doing literally nothing or making it seem like he's incredibly out of touch. Giving money to seniors instead of those who lost jobs, slamming the CERB program saying people won't want to go back to work because they are lazy, starting a back to work program to combat CERB but they only give you $500 the first week and then you have to work 31 hours a week to get the rest of the payment so it does nothing for people who lost jobs and can't return because their job doesn't exist anymore. He's also been hanging out with Andrew Scheer in airports without a mask in mask mandatory locations
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Jul 13, 2020 17:52
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Manitoban here and yeah we are just very lucky I guess. Sidenote: I got surgery done on my nose Friday so I had to get the Covid-19 test and it was not fun at all. Do not recommend
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Jul 13, 2020 18:34
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Jul 13, 2020 23:33
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Goddamnit the NDP called me today and I really wanted to get into it with the caller, really get engaged and share in their excitement and it was so clear there was a strict script and vague policy information. I signed up to volunteer because I am not sitting by and letting my years of hard sell sales go to waste while well meaning telemarketers kill any excitement for voting left of centre.
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Jul 14, 2020 00:01
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That clashes heavily with the NDP's primary branding seeming to be "the place excitement goes to die."
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Jul 14, 2020 00:03
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