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  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjDjIWPwcPU Described by Rotten Tomatoes as "telling one of the MCU's most absorbing stories -- and introducing some of its most fully realized characters," T'Challa, prince of Wakanda, returns home to take the throne and face off against the vicious Killmonger following the explosion of T'Challa's father in Captain America: Civil War. Though following in the footsteps of other leading black superheroes in film (Meteor Man, Blankman, Spawn, Steel, Blade, Catwoman, Hancock), Black Panther was the first black superhero in American mainstream comic books, and Black Panther is being pushed as a cultural event for black Americans on the back of it being sold to a mainstream film audience, its largely-black cast and creative leads, and its positive vision of Afro-futurism. Here's hoping it's good. Directed by: Ryan Coogler (Fruitvale Station, Creed) Written by: Ryan Coogler and Joe Robert Cole (The People v. O.J. Simpson: American Crime Story) Based on the Marvel Comics by: Stan Lee and Jack Kirby Cinematography by: Rachel Morrison (Fruitvale Station, Dope) Music by: Ludwig Göransson (Fruitvale Station, Creed) Film Editing by: Debbie Berman (The Final Girls, Spider-Man: Homecoming) and Michael P. Shawver (Fruitvale Station, Creed) Starring Chadwick Boseman (Get on Up) as T'Challa / Black Panther Michael B. Jordan (Creed) as Erik Killmonger Lupita Nyong'o (Star Wars: The Force Awakens) as Nakia Danai Gurira (The Walking Dead) as Okoye Martin Freeman (The Hobbit) as Everett K. Ross Daniel Kaluuya (Get Out) as W'Kabi Letitia Wright (Black Mirror) as Shuri Winston Duke (Person of Interest) as M'Baku Sterling K. Brown (This Is Us) as N'Jobu Angela Bassett (Green Lantern) as Ramonda Forest Whitaker (Rogue One: A Star Wars Story) as Zuri Andy Serkis (War for the Planet of the Apes) as Ulysses Klaue The film will be released in the United States on February 16. Please use spoiler tags until February 23 to give a one-week window in which people can read spoiler-free reactions. 
Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Feb 27, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 20:05
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edit: Been fixed. Thanks! Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Feb 15, 2018 |
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Feb 15, 2018 22:39
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Kurzon posted:What if Killmonger only wanted to avenge his daddy and take the throne? Then the primary antagonist runs out of motivation two-thirds of the way through the movie.
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Feb 22, 2018 19:53
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sean10mm posted:Isn't this isolation presented as bad and something that Black Panther himself is starting to change by the end of the film? The only thing we actually see him do is start up a charter school, which isn't exactly a far cry from what isolated elites in gated communities already do.
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Feb 23, 2018 18:54
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:Leaving what specific forms this acceptance will take as an exercise for the viewer isn't a weakness in my mind. It's not a weakness in the sense that it's more precisely cowardice.
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Feb 23, 2018 21:34
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Yeah, the point of leaving the form of it to the viewer is that the viewer gets to fill that in with something that's in line with their own views. Unrelated to the above, can someone clarify to me why the CIA guy needed to shoot down the transport planes at the end? My recollection is that weapons were being delivered to undercover Wakandan agents, War Dogs like Nakia. T'Challa should have been able to tell them to send the weapons back, right? I'm probably forgetting something.
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Feb 23, 2018 21:54
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sean10mm posted:Shockingly, a comic book movie doesn't read like a political party platform or something. I'm not looking for a platform. I'm looking for a perspective.
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Feb 23, 2018 22:21
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Seedge posted:I'm curious how long critics wanted the film to spend showing Wakanda reaching out to the world and sharing tech. Would adding another twenty minutes of this make it a better film, when the Infinity movies are rumoured to be a giant reset button on their universe? I doubt it. It's proponents of the film that seem to think that additional time spent on T'Challa's outreach might show him doing something more impactful or revolutionary than starting up a STEM high school. It's the critics who are comfortable with viewing the film as it is, treating what we see him do as representative of the constrained disruption T'Challa is willing to have. I don't think the movie failed to suggest that he was going to kick ENRC out of the DRC or whatever because of a lack of time, and I don't think additional time would be required to suggest that he was going to direct his attention in some other direction than the one shown.
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Feb 26, 2018 20:34
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Arist posted:Which, if anything, implies (to me at least) it's going to be fairly more complicated than "teaching kids how to code" because I imagine Shuri'd be bored out of her mind trying to do something that menial instead of actually sharing the depths of her knowledge. Not saying coding isn't important, it's just comparatively far less glamorous unless you live in Hackers. So instead of it being a STEM school, there'll be a facility where an expert in science, technology, engineering, and presumably mathematics will be sharing the depths of her knowledge with young people.
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Feb 26, 2018 23:17
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Arist posted:Yeah, pretty much, just except way more advanced and without the implied scoff and eye-roll whenever the words "STEM school" are typed in this thread. Well if it wasn't clear, I was scoffing and eye-rolling for the latter description as well.
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Feb 26, 2018 23:29
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temple posted:because black youth (in the MCU) didn't know black heroes like black panther existed. War Machine/Iron Patriot may not have his own movie, but in-universe kids don't know that.
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Feb 27, 2018 03:38
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Top Gun posted:is Ross related to General Ross & Betty Ross from Hulk? No, given that Martin Freeman is six years older than Liv Tyler, it wouldn't make a lot of sense for him to be a masculinized clone of Betty Ross. I don't think there's supposed to be a connection.
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Feb 28, 2018 05:38
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temple posted:wouldn't spider man irradiate everyone around him? Why would being bit by a genetically-engineered spider cause Spider-Man to irradiate people? Think before you post.
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Feb 28, 2018 22:16
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Blast Fantasto posted:Isn’t literally the entire arc of this movie that, unlike his father with his uncle, T’Challa learns from Killmonger? That while Killmonger’s methods (destruction, armament, war) were wrong his ideas (Wakanda can’t remain isolated, black people around the world need help) were correct The place this falls down is that T'Challa takes his throne back by recruiting an army, using it to engage in a civil war, and fighting Killmonger using vibranium armament. So apparently Killmonger's methods aren't wrong.
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Mar 5, 2018 19:46
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Not necessarily the case that you get the ancestor vision just from drinking the heart-shaped herb instead of the larger ritual as a whole.temple posted:invading a foreign country and fighting a civil war are complete different things. wakanda is isolationist, not pacifist Right. The objection was not to the methods but to the uses to which they would be put: overthrowing foreign tyrants instead of a domestic one.
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Mar 5, 2018 20:06
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temple posted:a cia agent overthrows the strongest african nation through sectarian violence sounds mightly cia-ish to me. Sounds way more competent than I'd associate with the CIA.
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Mar 5, 2018 22:37
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XboxPants posted:If giving every black citizen a machine gun was enough to end racism we could do that today. We would not be permitted to do this. See, for example, California banning the public carrying of loaded firearms in response to the Black Panthers' armed copwatch patrols in Oakland.
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Mar 5, 2018 23:32
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XboxPants posted:The only way to actually fight against the status quo is to bring disenfranchised people together and build power, like T'Challa did when he reached out to the Jabari - community organizing. This can include violence, too, as it did with them. But it can't only be violence. That doesn't change anything. Seems a bit odd to assume that Killmonger's plan was to have a vibranium spear appear in every black home and hope it works out for the best. He modelled his plan after his father, who embedded himself in a resistance group and a community and then looked to massively improve the tools at their disposal. temple posted:people have painted themselves into a corner. on one hand, they believe wakandan technology is powerful enough to conquer the world but teaching black children how to create wakandan technology is ineffectual. that's why they keep calling it a coding school because code is far less substantial than what wakanda has to offer. Nah, step one of creating Wakandan technology is to have access to the world's only supply of vibranium. We know Killmonger was going to share it. There's no indication that T'Challa is willing to do the same.
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Mar 6, 2018 06:45
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temple posted:t'challa said science and technology exchange. Which doesn't necessarily imply a material transfer. Teaching you how a computer works is a technology exchange even if I don't provide you with a semiconductor fab.
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Mar 6, 2018 06:55
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temple posted:that's a negative reading for argument sake. No, it's the actual meaning of the words. But, anyways, you suggested there was a contradiction, wherein some people "believe wakandan technology is powerful enough to conquer the world but teaching black children how to create wakandan technology is ineffectual." It would not be inconsistent with T'Challa's characterization that the technology exchange would include limited access to vibranium. But I assume you're not going to suggest that T'Challa wants to provide unrestricted access to vibranium along with the knowledge of how to use it to make weapons and armor. So you shouldn't be surprised, then, that people differently rate the amount of power being provided to the people when the former case is a direct provisioning out of Wakanda's industrial infrastructure while the latter is a restricted access to limited information and limited resources.
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Mar 6, 2018 07:17
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temple posted:do you ask tony stark why he doesn't stop opppression? do you ask thor? why wakandans? Yes, very similar arguments that the Avengers, particularly Tony Stark, merely maintain the status quo without enacting real justice have been made many times in the comic book movie megathread. It's not just Wakandans.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:14
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temple posted:so what's the fixation on wakanda? This is the Black Panther thread and Black Panther is the most recent MCU movie. If you want to see a bunch of the same people you've been arguing with poo poo talk Tony Stark, feel free to swing by the Spider-Man: Homecoming thread.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:20
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temple posted:so you just go to the each comic movie and make the same criticisms? sounds boring. Not every comic movie. The DC films generally don't have this issue. The entertainment is in exploring the application of an overall ideological critique of the MCU to each movie, as they are somewhat different from each other, and, of course, attempting to illuminate this critique for fine people like you.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:24
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temple posted:the problem i have with that is that wakanda isn't america. stark, shield, x-men, most of everyone is living in corrupt america and benefiting from it. wakanda is the only nation with clean hands. the attempt to implicate them is laughable at best and a deflection from the rest of the mcu's crimes. its like blaming the iraq war on mexico because they didn't rise up and stop america. The difference between Mexico and Wakanda is that Mexico is struggling to hold itself together as a country and Wakanda is Earth's most powerful nation. With great power comes great responsibility and all that. And, sure, I consider T'Challa to be significantly less villainous than Tony Stark. But, again, this is the Black Panther thread. If you would like to discuss Tony Stark, feel free to start up a conversation in the comic book movie megathread. This line of argument does make it weird that you brought up Thor, though, a dude who lives on another planet.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:36
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temple posted:might doesn't make right Might doesn't make right, of course, but it can be used in the service of what's right. And, buddy, nobody is suggesting that Wakanda should invade America and set up free markets, so I don't know where you're getting this "neoliberal interventionist" poo poo from.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:26
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temple posted:people want wakanda to open its borders. that's next. you will want miraculous healthcare and kimoyo beads. will wakanda provide these things for free? what of they losses they take in saving the world? who will quarter their soldiers? i don't think you have thought this out. I don't personally need anything from Wakanda, it being fictional and all. The incentive is moral. I am not going to engage in a philosophical debate with you about why people should behave morally even when they don't benefit from it in this, the Black Panther thread, but there's extensive literature on the subject if you're interested.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:42
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temple posted:that's the point. this is all fantasy for you and you are disatisfied with the reality of t'challa's decision. you came into the film with your critique all but written and when confronted with the many divergent threads in the movie, you simply go "its just a movie" and reiterate the same points. I, of course, have never said "its [sic] just a movie." To the contrary, I'm investing my time in discussing it. I am, of course, discussing it as a movie, because treating Wakanda as a real place would be delusional. And if you think there's "divergent threads" that I'm failing to address, please feel free to bring them up. temple posted:a setting that clearly operates by real world politics I'll give you this, this is pretty funny. Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Mar 6, 2018 |
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Mar 6, 2018 22:14
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temple posted:i already did but its cool. If you'd rather quote your original post where you did so instead of retype it, that's fine with me.
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Mar 6, 2018 22:25
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temple posted:the mcu is filled with heroes from neoliberal oppressive nations. wakanda is an isolationist nation with no involvement in world wide trade. why is wakanda expected to use their wealth, soliders, and resources to oppose the aforementioned nations? Sir Kodiak posted:With great power comes great responsibility
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Mar 6, 2018 22:33
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temple posted:t'challa was privileged but its a chicken or egg situation. wakandans did not have lived experience in oppression, so how were they to understand? now that t'challa has engaged the world, now they can do more. you are faulting t'challa for not fixing the problem when the problem started long before him. he told his dead father to his face that he was wrong. that's a start. It's not clear that T'Challa actually understands that oppression is an issue, though. What we see him do at the end of the movie is in line with the view that people aren't oppressed, they merely lack for opportunity. T'Challa is right to reject Killmonger's program of retributory violence, but what's missing is a sign that he appreciates that people are being held down and are not merely being failed in being helped up.
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Mar 13, 2018 17:26
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temple posted:we have to wait until bp2 I don't think we do.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:04
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I'm talking about what we see in Black Panther (2018; dp Rachel Morrison). We see Killmonger talk about oppression. We then see T'Challa act not on oppression, but a lack of opportunity. It does a disservice to the film to pretend we can't read it until they put out Black Panther 2. It's not like comic book movies are unable to do summarize someone doing the former in a quick scene. Hulk ends with Banner in South America, directly facing off against soldiers attempting to steal from the poor.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:22
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I think you're mistaking Black Panther portraying a tepid response with it being ambiguous. There's a desire for there to be more, so that possibility must be allowed. But "technology outreach" is a phrase used in the real world and it is appropriate to interpret Black Panther in light of it. The closing scenes are not ambiguous: T'Challa invests in Oakland and gives a speech. That conveys perfectly well. If Black Panther 2 goes in a different direction, that won't change Black Panther, which, barring Star Wars-style post-release editing, will always be what it is. Black Panther 2 may change our understanding of the simulated, diegetic universe of the MCU: it may retcon the first movie. But it can't change the already-released movie Black Panther and the way the ending of it sidelines the issue of oppression to instead laud investment by the upper class in the lower. Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 19:43
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Captain America died in The First Avenger. As with Superman, the guy who was resurrected has been a bit off.
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Mar 13, 2018 21:12
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Ubik_Lives posted:But yeah, ritual combat to determine leadership is hilariously backward. Seriously, what possible virtues are there to such a system? It provides the blessings of a god. Recall that T'Challa had been the Black Panther before, but it was only after the ritual combat that becoming the Black Panther let him visit an authentic afterlife. Believable that the procedures for the divine rule of kings are a bit harder to overthrow when the divinity is real and potent.
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Mar 15, 2018 17:21
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The point of Killmonger Was Right is less to say that in no way was Killmonger was wrong, but that he was more right than allowed for in the synthesis viewpoint T'Challa adopts at the end of the movie.
Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Mar 15, 2018 |
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Mar 15, 2018 23:39
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temple posted:so what was t'challa to do? Fight oppression.
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Mar 16, 2018 00:13
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bushisms.txt posted:Miley cyrus was hailed as a feminist icon after twerking while black women have been labeled as exotic whores for inventing it. Not to take away from your point, but just as a heads-up, the person being called a "feminist icon" in that link is Gloria Steinem, not Miley Cyrus.
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Mar 23, 2018 16:33
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bushisms.txt posted:It's the conversation, and there's more links where she is called one, Google finished my search by adding the word, I'm just including the one that has a known (white) feminist in it. I'm kinda surprised you're doubling down on this. It would only be "the one that has a known (white) feminist in it" if that one (link) were a member of the set of "links where she [Miley Cyrus] is called one [a feminist icon]." I can absolutely believe those links exist, and I don't think you're wrong about the racial politics of that whole affair, but the actual link does not support the point you're making and it's weird to defend its use on the basis that you specifically wanted to imply a known person had said something she didn't say.
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Mar 23, 2018 17:12
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| # ¿ May 7, 2024 11:14 |
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Yep.
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Mar 24, 2018 04:43
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