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"Her vacant rush is so screwwwwed"
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Jan 19, 2021 18:25
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Machina/Machina II reissues are almost done, and altogether, it's going to be 80 loving songs.  and 
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Jan 28, 2021 23:46
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Machina/Machina II reissues are almost done, and altogether, it's going to be 80 loving songs. So, maybe a double LP but likely a fuckton of digital? Actually, I guess a double LP and then a few EP's if wikipedia is accurate. The digital stuff will inevitably show up on streaming, but I'll drop cash for the indulgent vinyl package for sure. hatelull fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Jan 29, 2021 |
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Jan 29, 2021 00:06
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Keep in mind the Mellon Collie deluxe edition was 88 songs plus a DVD.
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Jan 29, 2021 03:13
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Machina/Machina II reissues are almost done, and altogether, it's going to be 80 loving songs. Thank god  I still can't remember where I got the impression that Billy wanted to expand it from a double album to three discs, but given he says that even Machina II at the time was missing a lot of material makes me wonder if a good chunk of those songs might actually be a huge three-CD album as opposed to a double with about 50 or so alternate takes or differing versions? He was definitely on a creative roll at the time so I hope that this really is something special and that the songs aren't ruined or tampered with too much aside from improved quality. Also, I had no idea he was working on a "rock opera" follow-up to Mellon Collie. I do not doubt his musical ability to pull it off songwriting-wise if he really wants to because I'm confident he can write the stuff people like as he pleases and simply chooses new things instead, but I hope that if the band goes ahead with this (and he says they're all really excited) that they just have a producer that buries his vocals in the mix because he can't sing like he used to and the talking through songs is incredibly distracting. Still remember the "Oh wow they're back!" when listening to Zeitgeist for the first time, and then Billy opened his mouth 
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Jan 29, 2021 06:30
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It'll be a follow up to Mellon Collie and Machina in the same way that Monuments is a follow up to Siamese Dream.
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Jan 29, 2021 18:12
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i know music and art in general is a constant struggle between doing what you want and doing what your fans want, but jesus christ billy, nobody gives a poo poo about any kind of "story" behind these albums. is there even a single fan who is asking "gosh i wish i knew how the lush and epic saga of mellon collie ends"
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Jan 29, 2021 18:24
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I don't even think most fans think there is a story. That would be like Dave Grohl saying "yeah, this album is going to finish out the musical story I told in the Colour and the Shape."
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Jan 29, 2021 18:30
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Jimmy's relative lack of props is probably another victim of the 2 faces of the Pumpkins phenomena, where the singles Pumpkins and the live/b-side Pumpkins that you have to be a fan to find out about are almost different bands.
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Jan 29, 2021 22:59
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Hold the gently caress up... There was a story to Mellon Collie? I knew about the Machina one ("about", but I never looked into what it actually was), but had no idea MCIS had any sort of narrative thread, other than "here's a list of loving wonderful rock songs"
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Jan 29, 2021 23:07
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Something or other about Zero. I dunno, Billy ain't the best musical storyteller, even when his music was good.
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Jan 29, 2021 23:09
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He sings "I'm the face in your dreams of glass" in Zero, which can be vaguely interpreted as an early reference to the Glass character in Machina. That's all I ever picked up after years and years of listening.
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Jan 29, 2021 23:13
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Zero somehow became a protagonist for Machina, but I'm wondering if the sheer amount of mushrooms, downers and ecstacy he did between 97 and 98 just made him retcon MCIS for no reason.
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Jan 30, 2021 04:34
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Noise Machine posted:Zero somehow became a protagonist for Machina, but I'm wondering if the sheer amount of mushrooms, downers and ecstacy he did between 97 and 98 just made him retcon MCIS for no reason. I'm likely super wrong, but I thought that Billy was largely anti-drug, if only for himself? Unless he wasn't, and Jimmy (and later, the rest of Zwan) just did WAY TOO MANY for his liking, and were then kicked out of their respective bands at the time?
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Jan 30, 2021 14:01
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He was really into psychedelics in the Gish era if you couldn't tell, but had a bad experience at some point around 92. He's also really anti-heroin for obvious reasons. That said after MCIS he got really into ecstasy and I don't know, maybe psychedelics again. I think the Zwan collapse had to do with the fact that David Pajo and Matt Sweeney are absolute geniuses but are also definitely hosed up people with brain problems and I think there was some major bad vibes going on.
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Jan 30, 2021 14:29
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Because for some reason have dedicated brain space to this, I found the livejournal entry where Billy talks about the making of Adore. Seems like after recording they'd eat some shrooms or pop some pills and chill in a hot-tub. https://billycorgan.livejournal.com/12575.html
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Jan 30, 2021 17:00
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also I heard "Being Beige" out of context for the first time in years and you know what? That's a good song. Very possible it's the only good one on "Monuments", but a good song none-the-less
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Jan 30, 2021 18:04
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That LJ entry about Adore is weird. I know to take Billy's version of things with a pinch (or maybe a cup) of salt but reading about James only showing up a couple times in six months is odd. Did he just not care about ever showing up because Billy would presumably end up recording all the guitars himself or was there some moment the two of them had a big fallout? I've always wondered what the deal is there but do know Billy became a control freak with Siamese Dream and basically just recorded everything with Jimmy, was that when James and D'Arcy tuned out? Also while I'm glad Jimmy got the boot when he did because it helped him get better, it's still messed up reading about them taking various drugs while recording a new album after he was kicked out and a tour member died from an overdose. SUNKOS fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jan 30, 2021 |
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Jan 30, 2021 18:20
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I'm assuming James was more present than what it says. D'arcy and James actually played on and contributed to MCIS so he was probably less involved than on that, but pretty much any time you can hear high atmospheric guitar things that's James. I've been thinking about Adore and what works and what doesn't work on it. I know Billy said that he had Let Me Give The World To You cut because the label wanted it to be the lead single and it didn't sound like the rest of the album, but I think it could have worked. The biggest problem is that it has a very different production style owing to the fact that it's Rick Rubin, but I think the same arrangement produced by Billy and mixed by him and Flood would have worked. Sequence it second, instead of Ava Adore, it fits with the more stark but still major-key To Sheila and the sunnier vibes of Perfect. I think there's room for Ava Adore still, but it might work better a little later on. Cut out Once Upon A Time, or Crestfallen, or Daphne Descends, or maybe Apples + Oranjes.
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Jan 30, 2021 21:17
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I remember reading something about how Darcy and James were way too busy playing Doom all the time, instead of recording. Obviously that'd be during MCIS, since Doom came out in 93, after Siamese Dream, and Doom 2 came out a year later. Obviously, there are the Doom sound effects in "Where Boyd Fear to Tread", but does anyone else know anything about this? Edit: you know what? I'm leaving the typo 
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Jan 31, 2021 00:34
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James and D'arcy were pretty involved in the MCIS sessions, most days would have either D'arcy and Jimmy laying down rhythm tracks while Billy and James went over stuff, Billy and Jimmy laying down backing tracks while James and D'arcy worked out their parts, or Billy doing endless guitar layers or vocals while James did overdubs, Jimmy got loaded, and D'arcy rode a horse or something I don't know.
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Jan 31, 2021 03:16
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Baron von Eevl posted:Cut out Once Upon A Time, or Crestfallen, or Daphne Descends, or maybe Apples + Oranjes. Daphne Descends is one of my favorite songs on that album and I can't imagine Adore without it. I'm actually surprised that Eye didn't make it onto the album since musically it fits really well and Because You Are would have been a good addition also rather than being left on the cutting room floor imo. Speaking of Let Me Give the World to You, considering it was a b-side released a couple months before recording for Adore started I can't shake the feeling that The Beginning is the End is the Beginning would have fit so well on Adore as well. Personally I would have cut and replaced some of the later tracks on the album as I think the second half is weaker, and the four tracks mentioned above would have elevated it a lot with their inclusion, even if two of them were movie-related. My personal choices for cuts would have been Dusty & Pistol Pete, Annie-Dog, Shame, Blank Page & 17. I'd have closed out the album with Because You Are, Behold! The Night Mare & The Beginning is the End is the Beginning. Speaking of, I think the Machina II version of Let Me Give the World to You would have fit well on Adore. That version could comfortably have taken the place of Perfect or accompanied it. Maybe have James using his EBow in the background for extra flow 
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Jan 31, 2021 04:23
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Noise Machine posted:also I heard "Being Beige" out of context for the first time in years and you know what? That's a good song. Very possible it's the only good one on "Monuments", but a good song none-the-less Might as well have named it Boring Song.
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Jan 31, 2021 04:31
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Pistol Pete is great gently caress you.
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Jan 31, 2021 04:34
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Yeah agreed, there's a reason I left that, Annie-Dog, and Shame. I think the drone version of Blank Page would have fit better, though. Also 17 is only 17 seconds long, cutting it's not going to get you much wiggle room.
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Jan 31, 2021 04:45
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I mixed up 17 with Once in a While. Whoops  Edit: Do you mean the early version of Blank Page from the reissue or is there another version out there? SUNKOS fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jan 31, 2021 |
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Jan 31, 2021 05:09
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Yeah, the reissue version. Once In a While also didn't appear on the standard version which is a shame because it's a beautiful song.
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Jan 31, 2021 05:52
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Was listening to that and yeah, I prefer the reissue version, the mood fits better and Billy's vocals are great, especially when they're isolated for the plant some trees section. There's an oddball track as well called Indecision which is just an electronic beat but Billy's voice is beautiful. As much as I love the Machina II version of Satur9 I really like the Matt Walker 2014 version on the Adore reissue as well, he did a good job of capturing the style of Ava Adore and seems like it would have complimented it nicely. I really hope the Machina II reissue has that noise version intact but just produced/mastered properly  Going over all the material and direction of the band combined with the reaction (press praising it and fans being alienated) makes it feel very similar to Radiohead's Kid A. I was just going over some other info (I think this was on the Wikipedia page) that said Billy was contemplating it being a double album, which makes me think of Kid A being followed up with Amnesiac so quickly as well. Shame it didn't have the reception that Radiohead's records had but that probably wouldn't have been healthy for Billy's ego.
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Jan 31, 2021 06:38
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I think it's true, Let Me Give The World To You is my favorite Adore-era song and I feel like it would have overshadowed a lot of the album had it been on there. Still wish it was though. Going with the Radiohead analogies, it reminds me a lot of Lift, which was not included on OK Computer because they were worried it'd become the next Creep. But it's still a wonderful song and one of my favorites.
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Jan 31, 2021 14:59
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It's a beautiful arrangement, but Rick Rubin really Rick Rubined the hell out of the mix.
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Jan 31, 2021 15:32
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As to be expected. At the very least, it's not as bothersome as Billy was actually singing back then rather than... whatever it is he does now. Talking loudly?
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Jan 31, 2021 15:39
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Noise Machine posted:also I heard "Being Beige" out of context for the first time in years and you know what? That's a good song. Very possible it's the only good one on "Monuments", but a good song none-the-less
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Jan 31, 2021 21:35
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I really do love that alternate version of Blank Page so much, thanks for the recommendation. That and some of the other tracks of the Adore reissue that I never even bothered listening to are really great. Also, odd bit of trivia but apparently Billy submitted both Eye and Tear to David Lynch for the Lost Highway soundtrack, and Lynch opted for Eye and so Tear made it onto Adore instead. Between those and The End is the Beginning is the End (and the alternate version and b-sides for that single) they had a fascinating starting point for Adore. I think it was prompted by the success of 1979? Apparently Eye was the first song he wrote after Mellon Collie.
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Feb 2, 2021 11:18
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SUNKOS posted:I really do love that alternate version of Blank Page so much, thanks for the recommendation. That and some of the other tracks of the Adore reissue that I never even bothered listening to are really great. I also heard, and this might be common knowledge for this thread, that 1979 was the last track written for MCIS. I wonder how long it was between those two songs being written.
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Feb 2, 2021 11:53
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SUNKOS posted:I really do love that alternate version of Blank Page so much, thanks for the recommendation. That and some of the other tracks of the Adore reissue that I never even bothered listening to are really great. I think Tear was his first take at a Batman theme and Warner rejected it for not being rock enough. I hadn't heard that about Eye, but there were a bunch of things he did in 96 that at least got released well before Eye. I've heard The Last Song was cut in the first post-MCIS sessions, but I don't know when that was written vs Eye. I know there's a piano only demo for Eye recorded at sadlands but that was his living room so it could have been any time.
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Feb 2, 2021 13:03
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I do love that if you take the singles away, drastically cut down Pastichio Medley, and rearrange the track order, The Aeroplane Flies High really is MCIS 2.
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Feb 2, 2021 13:44
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Looking at the releases (including all the extra stuff and compilations like Pisces Iscariot & The Aeroplane Flies High) it really seems like that period between Siamese Dream and ending with the release of Machina II was Billy just on a continuous roll of amazing output that I don't think ever really stopped? He just had this 7 year run of awesomeness. It might be shorter than that but I'm rounding down from recording on Siamese Dream beginning in December of '92 and Machina II releasing in February of 2000. I just checked as well and Adore released in March '98 and they started recording Machina in November of the same year Oh and the Eye thing I just saw in the Wikipedia page but didn't check the source for the claim, there might have been too much output at the time for anyone to look back on and recall the order of correctly.
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Feb 2, 2021 16:20
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Smashing Pumpkins 1993-2000: Oops! All bangers!
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Feb 2, 2021 19:16
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I slept on Adore when I was younger but I've been listening to it lately, most of it for the first time. For Martha is just majestic.
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Feb 2, 2021 20:39
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| # ? May 8, 2024 15:22 |
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I think this is why I was thinking the Machina reissue might be three CDs instead of two, is because various people have gathered all the tracks on YouTube and made their own versions of the album which all have three discs worth of songs. It's an interesting thing to explore for anyone curious, here's one I found that I thought was quite good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYi4lU-sNgs Edit: Also watching an old interview of Billy & Yelena on Howard Stern back in '98 and Stern's bringing up Corgan's youth etc. and how he got into music and I had no idea that Billy was not only self taught, but he also can't read music. Maybe he can now? I have no idea but this is back in '98 and when you consider the output of his material up until then that is incredible I'm not sure if he's being completely honest or not, or perhaps discounting that he knows chords and such? Or maybe he doesn't and just has a particularly good ear for what sounds right.
SUNKOS fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Feb 6, 2021 |
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Feb 6, 2021 19:13
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