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Dias posted:Narrative and thematic "deepness" aren't the same thing. The Souls series is amazing at doing environmental narrative, but thematically they're not really anything special. Kojima is very blunt about his themes but his work is extremely focused on them. Both approaches are valid, ain't no one knocking Bong Joon-Ho for spelling out what Parasite is about (although Kojima goes kinda TOO far into that territory). I mean as an example Jim Sterling made I think it was a partly facetious video about the politics in Dark Souls but I felt it was actually quite compelling case that the central message/themes behind Dark Souls is about Late Stage Capitalism, and about established aging institutions clinging on for dear life long well past their expiry date and I think that since there's a lot of this you can extract from the DS trilogy if you ask the right questions that yes you can make the argument that DS as a series is also thematically deep. I would agree though that the two franchises have very apples to oranges comparisons in terms of their approaches to exploring themes and developing their narrative and it isnt very fair to compare them.
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Jan 18, 2020 21:41
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you couldn’t squeeze 7 hours of meaningful analysis out of loving twin peaks let alone dark souls or something kojima made
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Jan 18, 2020 21:52
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Haven't played Death Stranding but considering Kojima made like 7 games on the theme of repetition/recreation I'm not sure if he is actually good at it or if it's just an excuse for him to reference his favourite media related things. I really got to get off my rear end and write the thing of why MG:Survive is great because it rejects the themes of the mainline MGS games and goes for a more reuse/recontextualize thing.
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Jan 18, 2020 21:53
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I dunno about Late Stage Capitalism, but the Souls games definitely have themes to them.
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Jan 18, 2020 21:55
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watho posted:you couldn’t squeeze 7 hours of meaningful analysis out of loving twin peaks let alone dark souls or something kojima made I mean looking up Dark Souls story analysis on youtube shows at least multi hour of total content, enough for a good weeks worth of university course material.
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Jan 18, 2020 21:56
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watho posted:you couldn’t squeeze 7 hours of meaningful analysis out of loving twin peaks let alone dark souls or something kojima made ive already had my fill of twin peaks speculation but id listen to 7 hours on Rabbits
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Jan 18, 2020 21:58
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Raenir Salazar posted:I mean as an example Jim Sterling made I think it was a partly facetious video about the politics in Dark Souls but I felt it was actually quite compelling case that the central message/themes behind Dark Souls is about Late Stage Capitalism, and about established aging institutions clinging on for dear life long well past their expiry date and I think that since there's a lot of this you can extract from the DS trilogy if you ask the right questions that yes you can make the argument that DS as a series is also thematically deep. Jim Sterling's video was an excellent case of showing how easily you can manipulate someone by telling them what they want to hear. I don't remember the details, but can recall being amused by how he just went with whatever Kaathe was telling him because he already made up his mind about the gods and Kaathe was confirming what he was thinking. Meanwhile he either didn't find out, or ignored, all the warning signs about Kaathe being just as much of an manipulative rear end as Frampt. It was a real reveal of his thinking process lol
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Jan 18, 2020 22:01
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Archer666 posted:Jim Sterling's video was an excellent case of showing how easily you can manipulate someone by telling them what they want to hear. I don't remember the details, but can recall being amused by how he just went with whatever Kaathe was telling him because he already made up his mind about the gods and Kaathe was confirming what he was thinking. Meanwhile he either didn't find out, or ignored, all the warning signs about Kaathe being just as much of an manipulative rear end as Frampt. It was a real reveal of his thinking process lol He was coming up with that though specifically to challenge the sort of people who think video games are somehow the only example of a creative medium as being predominently apolitical. It may not be a perfect analysis but its a compelling one.
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Jan 18, 2020 22:03
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Kojima is a great writer since he's the creator of Quiet, a woman who is biologically required to be nearly naked, completely silent, and utterly subservient to the player. He understands gamers better than they understand themselves. Acute Grill fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jan 18, 2020 |
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Jan 18, 2020 22:33
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Acute Grill posted:Kojima is a great writer since he's the creator of Quiet, a woman who is biologically required to be nearly naked, completely silent, and utterly subservient to the player. excuse me but his true writing talent shone through when he wrote a woman having a bomb in her vagina truly a visionary of our lifetime
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Jan 18, 2020 22:42
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:excuse me but his true writing talent shone through when he wrote a woman having a bomb in her vagina That was a South Park bit. God's son and heir Hideo Kojima would never debase himself with south Park humor.
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Jan 18, 2020 22:49
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since we’re doing this thing again I might as well say that hidetaka miyazaki has a shameless foot fetish and isn’t subtle about his affinity for submissive women submit reply
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Jan 18, 2020 22:55
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:excuse me but his true writing talent shone through when he wrote a woman having a bomb in her vagina the absolute "best" part of that is the Smash Ultimate spirit battle that specifically references it
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Jan 18, 2020 22:57
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Archer666 posted:I mean, if you're going to spend a 7 hours talking about a piece of media, it better be something as packed full of stuff like a Kojima game than Star Wars or a Dark Souls review. lol at least dark souls is obscure and leaves room for debate and interpretation. Kohima games literally tell you what they’re about and then remind you every other cutscene just to make sure you’re not confused. E: I apologise, I didn’t see how many other overly protective nerds also leapt on this fairly harmless comment Calico Heart fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jan 18, 2020 |
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Jan 18, 2020 22:58
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Augus posted:since we’re doing this thing again I might as well say that hidetaka miyazaki has a shameless foot fetish and isn’t subtle about his affinity for submissive women submit reply clarify
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Jan 18, 2020 23:00
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i still think david Cage is the worst aurtuer game person. dude can't write for poo poo and is a creepy rear end in a top hat. kojima has some good moments at least. 5 and 4 are the worst story wise though and with dumb jerk it poo poo. 2 and 3 are good though. yoko taro is good though. yeah he likes big asses but he just is upfront about it and also writes really depressing characters that slowly break in depressing ways. basicaly he is better kojima.
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Jan 18, 2020 23:03
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Dabir posted:clarify no
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Jan 18, 2020 23:03
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Remember how the Paz fight in Smash Bros rewards you with a bomb Lol
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Jan 18, 2020 23:06
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i still think david Cage is the worst aurtuer game person. dude can't write for poo poo and is a creepy rear end in a top hat. kojima has some good moments at least. 5 and 4 are the worst story wise though and with dumb jerk it poo poo. 2 and 3 are good though. yoko taro is good though. yeah he likes big asses but he just is upfront about it and also writes really depressing characters that slowly break in depressing ways. basicaly he is better kojima. David Cage is confirmation that video games are art, because the best indicator of art is bad art that thinks it's great art, and there's no art more up its own rear end than a sad man shooting himself in the rain over the graves of his children while his new lover looks on in horror.
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Jan 18, 2020 23:09
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Calico Heart posted:Remember how the Paz fight in Smash Bros rewards you with a bomb That remains the best/worst joke Smash ever did.
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Jan 18, 2020 23:15
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Acting like subtlety is inherently good and bluntness is inherently bad is peak baby brain, hth
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Jan 18, 2020 23:15
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Hideo Kojima is just the Ernest Cline of videogames and I say that as someone that likes mgs.
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Jan 18, 2020 23:17
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZLqT1FptQY Cody Bonds gives a (mostly) accurate recap of the Yellow Turban Rebellion in China.
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Jan 18, 2020 23:19
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Acting like subtlety is inherently good and bluntness is inherently bad is peak baby brain, hth "At least it's obscure" is like one of the worst media analyses I've ever read, being "obscure" doesn't mean much but I guess it's good if you're trying to write video essays.
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Jan 18, 2020 23:21
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Like, yeah, Kojima's writing is as nuanced as a brick to the throat, but that's part of the charm, and I think he's taking it a lot less seriously than you are
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Jan 18, 2020 23:24
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i still think david Cage is the worst aurtuer game person. dennis dyack
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Jan 18, 2020 23:25
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Like, yeah, Kojima's writing is as nuanced as a brick to the throat, but that's part of the charm, and I think he's taking it a lot less seriously than you are Behold, Puppetmeister by proxy
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Jan 18, 2020 23:26
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:dennis dyack I'd completely forgotten about him, is he even doing anything anymore?
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Jan 18, 2020 23:26
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:dennis dyack Dyack at least has two genuinely very good games under his belt, which is vastly more than what cage can be accused of Acute Grill posted:Behold, Puppetmeister by proxy Did you think that when Raiden caught Snake jerking off in MGS2 that it was some sort of metaphor for isolation
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Jan 18, 2020 23:27
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David.... Cage
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Jan 18, 2020 23:28
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Dyack at least has two genuinely very good games under his belt, which is vastly more than what cage can be accused of miyamoto had to be flown out to silicon knights' studio to rescue eternal darkness because it was a burning tire fire of garbage when nintendo went and looked at it. and from what i've gathered, similar poo poo happened with blood omen. anything good about those games happened in spite of dyack, not at all because of him.
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Jan 18, 2020 23:30
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Dyack at least has two genuinely very good games under his belt, which is vastly more than what cage can be accused of I've never had enough brain damage to believe anything he's done is worth thinking about.
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Jan 18, 2020 23:30
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Acute Grill posted:I've never had enough brain damage to believe anything he's done is worth thinking about. Normal opinion, very cool!
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Jan 18, 2020 23:31
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Normal opinion, very cool! Yeah, I'm the weird one for not thinking about a fictional character jacking off 20 years ago. You're very smart and cool for obsessing over that. Acute Grill fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jan 18, 2020 |
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Jan 18, 2020 23:34
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laugh...and grow fat....
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Jan 18, 2020 23:36
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imo I think the From games have a lot going on and are fairly thematically consistent and interesting, but considering the story is told in a loving weird obscurantic way it's hardly an easy ask to care about. Take the first game for example; nearly every character you meet is either trying to hold onto something that's gone or wants something they can never have. Gwyndolin wants to win the approval/affection of their father who's lost his mind. Lautrec, Eingyi and Kirk all want the love of beings who either don't know they exist or are incapable of love. Seigmeyer wants to live up to his nation's idea of heroism but is ultimately a coward who abandons his family. Logan wants to be an entirely different species. Griggs and Laurentius both want to live up to masters who don't know they exist and far exceed them. Seath wants to be a part of the people he betrayed and got genocided. Reah wants the rite of kindling but isn't undead so can't get it. The first knight you meet in the game has a family motto about going to a long-dead and collapsed kingdom. Even the first merchant you meet in the game can't accept their friend/whatever isn't around anymore and talks to them as if they're there. Solaire, the face of the entire franchise, "wants their own sun", a goal so ridiculous even barely-sane hollows think he's nuts. All these impossible goals are examples of a basic fear of change and desire for legacy, the ultimate example of which is Gwyn who absolutely cannot accept that the world might change into something he doesn't recognise. He essentially wants to turn his era into the one he stole; a stagnant world of everlasting asstree's and mineral lizards. The second game builds on this point by treating fear and desire as two sides of the same coin, using the phrase "the ______ of Want" roughly a million times. It's a game mechanic but the central theme is not letting go of death/what's lost. Your character comes back to life, ghosts stick around their lovely ruins, magic works by remembering old stories, long-dead princesses show up just to be rescued again, big weird hands want their pendants from a million years ago, guards stand watch over a painting even though everyone it would benefit is already dead. Like, half the entire game is graveyards and it isn't just to be spooky.
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Jan 18, 2020 23:48
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Hel posted:Hideo Kojima is just the Ernest Cline of videogames and I say that as someone that likes mgs. No, because Hideo Kojima's dream Terminator game(Snatcher) involved finding Terminators via detective work and shooting them. Ernest Cline's dream terminator game would involve remembering every one of Sarah Connor's lines as you watch a VR version of the movie. Source: I have read Ready Player One and Ernest Cline imagines a video game version of Wargames where all you do is remember Matthew Broderick's lines and repeat them and thinks it's the coolest thing
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Jan 18, 2020 23:53
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Acting like subtlety is inherently good and bluntness is inherently bad is peak baby brain, hth I know writers who use subtext and they're all cowards.
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Jan 18, 2020 23:54
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There's a happy medium between "subtle to the point where it can be interpreted as anything" and "constantly pounding the themes into your head."
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Jan 18, 2020 23:55
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Yeah but both those extremes have their merits. I like the stories of MGS and of Dark Souls, even if MGS is stupidly over the top all the time and Dark Souls has an almost fully optional story.
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Jan 18, 2020 23:58
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