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max blumenthal (anti-semite) says it its an anti soviet myth or something localised bad weather etc. is there a way i can make money off this controversy somehow?? thanls. 
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Apr 21, 2018 05:11
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i asked the mods and they said anybody who uses the word tankie will catch a 6er, not including this post, mine.
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Apr 21, 2018 05:12
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the holodomor episodes of star trek were the worst, like come on man how hard is it to not have the safeties get disengaged every time there's a plasma fart
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Apr 21, 2018 05:15
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Yes, of course it did. Now the real question is: Did the Dustbowl Really Happen???
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Apr 21, 2018 05:28
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Apr 21, 2018 05:33
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Yes some of those people died (the numbers are exaggerated) but it wasn't because of the the man in charge, it was because of forces beyond his control that made it impossible to keep them from starving as they worked for him and really, the ones executed were being given a mercy. It was just a coincidence that they were from a hated group Wait nevermind I thought you said a different Hol-thing
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Apr 21, 2018 05:36
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I don't know much about hodor op I don't watch game of thrones
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Apr 21, 2018 05:37
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its an honor to have u here dr. furr
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Apr 21, 2018 05:38
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the real question you should be asking is if whether reality has any substance if the universe has an eventual end than whether or not something happened is pointless because it will eventually not matter whether it happened
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Apr 21, 2018 05:43
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hallebarrysoetoro posted:the real question you should be asking is if whether reality has any substance well no becuase Christ reigns
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Apr 21, 2018 05:45
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the famine resulted from stalin's imposition of total wholesale collectivization of peasant agriculture across eurasia but there is no evidence that it was specifically directed at ukraine OP
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Apr 21, 2018 05:47
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Yes some of those people died (the numbers are exaggerated) but it wasn't because of the the man in charge, it was because of forces beyond his control that made it impossible to keep them from starving as they worked for him and really, the ones executed were being given a mercy. It was just a coincidence that they were from a hated group how often do you forget to breathe? i'm betting at least three times a week
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Apr 21, 2018 05:48
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i heard "the" ukraine was "the breadbasket of the soviet union"
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Apr 21, 2018 05:48
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R. Guyovich posted:how often do you forget to breathe? i'm betting at least three times a week i ate breakfast and then forgot to eat until like 930 tonight, when i ordered chinese food
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Apr 21, 2018 05:49
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R. Guyovich posted:how often do you forget to breathe? i'm betting at least three times a week Problem?
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Apr 21, 2018 05:49
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Problem? with your monumental stupidity? yeah
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Apr 21, 2018 05:50
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oooooooooo
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Apr 21, 2018 05:51
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:the famine resulted from stalin's imposition of total wholesale collectivization of peasant agriculture across eurasia but there is no evidence that it was specifically directed at ukraine OP said landowners knew that such an act could lead to mass starvation, but petty spite was more important
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Apr 21, 2018 05:53
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i heard there is some anti stalin revisionist group or whatever who makes a fuckin mint off The Holodomor Industry. i dont see how, though. does it delegitimize the holocuast? i think so. i think its hosed up. whats the angle though.....
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Apr 21, 2018 05:53
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rudatron posted:specifically, it resulted from private landowners choosing to burn their holdings rather than lose them to state farms are these the infamous dirty kulaks
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Apr 21, 2018 05:54
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Apr 21, 2018 05:56
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R. Guyovich posted:how often do you forget to breathe? i'm betting at least three times a week oh you said breathe. guess this thread has me thinking about food.....
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Apr 21, 2018 05:58
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paul_soccer10 posted:oh you said breathe. guess this thread has me thinking about food..... I read eat too. I think he did some post revisionism
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Apr 21, 2018 05:59
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but my quote....
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Apr 21, 2018 06:01
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A ton of Ukrainian, and Russian, and Kazakh, and Mongolian, and all other manner of Soviets died during the famine brought on by forced collectivization It was very bad It was not intentional, it was not directed at a nationality
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Apr 21, 2018 06:02
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why do people say it was? just to lazily associate socialism with the holocaust?
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Apr 21, 2018 06:04
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declassified soviet documents put the deaths at 2-3 million, but that number is heavily over-inflated to draw a false equivalence between the soviets and the nazis, both as nazi + fascist apologia, and as anti-communist rhetoric
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Apr 21, 2018 06:04
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the holodomor, a famine in the southern soviet union happened but the holodomor, a deliberate genocide of ukrainians through famine did not.paul_soccer10 posted:why do people say it was? just to lazily associate socialism with the holocaust? it's basically foundational to modern ukrainian nationalism.
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Apr 21, 2018 06:05
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yeah, the internal belief was that collectivization would increase production, and the policy was committed to on that basis, not on the basis of randomly starving people. The possibility of popular backlash + resistance -> failure to collective/sow harvests -> starvation, was not predicted and accounted for.
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Apr 21, 2018 06:09
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rudatron is correct
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Apr 21, 2018 06:12
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People said it was because of collectivization but the Russian empire had several famines during the entire 19th century that had enormous death tolls and in fact after WW2 there are no famines in the USSR ever again but let's not get that on the way 
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Apr 21, 2018 06:13
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Same about Mao btw. After the pains of the great people forward China never had a horrible famine like the ones that happened every two decades due to the yangtse flooding and poo poo
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Apr 21, 2018 06:14
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I though Mao was a boob who killed all the birds and messed up everyone's poo poo
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Apr 21, 2018 06:17
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but it does raise issues about what might occur in another revolution. say in 20 years you get the dictatorship of the teens or whatever, private capitalists will destroy their capital rather than lose it to worker control, and that's true for more than just agriculture. how does a post-revolutionary government prevent that?
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Apr 21, 2018 06:18
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rudatron posted:but it does raise issues about what might occur in another revolution. say in 20 years you get the dictatorship of the teens or whatever, private capitalists will destroy their capital rather than lose it to worker control, and that's true for more than just agriculture. how does a post-revolutionary government prevent that? because you touch yourself at night
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Apr 21, 2018 06:37
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rudatron posted:but it does raise issues about what might occur in another revolution. say in 20 years you get the dictatorship of the teens or whatever, private capitalists will destroy their capital rather than lose it to worker control, and that's true for more than just agriculture. how does a post-revolutionary government prevent that? It doesn't because society needs the "year zero"
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Apr 21, 2018 06:43
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Plutonis posted:People said it was because of collectivization but the Russian empire had several famines during the entire 19th century that had enormous death tolls and in fact after WW2 there are no famines in the USSR ever again but let's not get that on the way This right here. The "holodomor" as a concept is one of many cases of the west attributing a natural disaster's cause to an ideological enemy while at the same time ignoring famines that were literally caused by western colonial action.
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Apr 21, 2018 06:48
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paul_soccer10 posted:I though Mao was a boob who killed all the birds and messed up everyone's poo poo mao made mistakes like anybody does but theres those ~orientalisms~ when we talk about the inscrutable cultures of the savage mystic east that simply dont value human life the way we do in the extremely calm and rational west i mean nobody frames the silent spring or whatever like "idiotic american predilection with destroying mosquitoes nearly collapsed their own ecosystem, the superstitious, cowardly and whinging idiots"
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Apr 21, 2018 06:51
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dunno about the holodomor OP but i do know about the bengal famine, in which winston churchill personally ordered 2-3 million Indians starved to death during WWII weird that we hear so much about the former, and yet most americans have literally never even heard of the latter...
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Apr 21, 2018 06:51
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paul_soccer10 posted:max blumenthal (anti-semite) says it its an anti soviet myth or something yes op, it did, although its scope and circumstances have often been exaggerated or simply lied about. since the opening of soviet archives we have direct evidence that stalin was repeatedly made aware of the famine but he was a stubborn lad and seems to have decided for himself that it was bullshit. it was primarily his inaction that made it particularly devastating in ukraine, although it afflicted most of the southern russian grain belt also everybody ignores the fact that the same famine also killed like, an insane number of nomads living in central asia cause soviet authorities confiscated ~9/10s of their livestock to alleviate hunger elsewhere, but it's hard to care because they are nomads, asian, and haven't been the subject of decades of bickering and slapfighting between different imbeciles of left and right wing varieties (who primarily see millions of dead people as points on a scoreboard) Fuligin has issued a correction as of 07:01 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 06:59
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