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I bought a bike..        I got it to my garage  It is/was in rough shape.
I bought it from a friend of mine who was selling it on behalf of one of his staff members. That guy had bought it with the intent of fixing it up because there's a couple of guys at their business that are fixing up bikes and he wanted to join the crowd or something. The guy had it for a year and hadn't gotten it running, despite my friend helping him. It was taking up space in my friend's shop. The first thing I did was order a battery and a pair of NGK spark plugs because I wouldn't be able to figure out why it wasn't starting without a battery. My buddy claimed he had cleaned the carburators - I used to read a lot of project threads on here so I knew carbs were almost always the problem but didn't know what carburators were. I borrowed a spark plug socket from my dad and found out the old plugs were champion. "That must be the problem!" I said to myself. I did a spark test with the new plugs and they showed a nice blue spark so I installed them along with the battery and the bike would turn over but wouldn't start. Being a complete n00b I figured this meant the starter was probably good but didn't know why it wasn't starting. My buddy had already cleaned the carbs, what else could it be? I left it overnight and came back the next day to discover the battery was completely discharged. "There must be a problem with the electrical!" I said to myself. This was proven wrong later when I realized I had put the key in the wrong position and draining the battery was my own drat fault. There wasn't a hope of me figuring out what was wrong with the wiring so I kept looking, and found out that the rubber ducts from the airbox to the carbs hadn't been reinstalled, and the air filter was basically gone. "It must be running lean because of no air filter!" I said. I figured out how to reattach the throttle cables all on my own. I had to take apart the handlebar control which was kinda scary but I got it working. Like most of the stuff on the bike it was really brittle plastic. After a week or two I was toying around with the handlebar controls trying to figure out what each of them did because all the labels had been burnt off when some previous owner had left the bike outside for 10 years. The choke lever didn't seem to do anything. I'm not sure if I knew it was the choke lever at first. A few days after that I came back and took a closer look at it, and like the throttle cables it had been loosened without being put back properly. I figured out the tensioner was in the middle of the cable and got it tightened up, and then tried the choke lever. It would move a tiny fraction of its range and stop. Looking at the plate it was actuating on the carburator, there were little brass pins halting its travel, but there were long ovals in the plate showing it should have moved like 1-1.5". Watching a youtube video confirmed that those brass pins *were* the choke and they'd seized. Discovering the chokes on the carbs were completely seized cast suspicion on all the repairs my friend and his buddy had attempted. At this point I ordered a couple carb kits because I knew I'd have to do the job myself. Here's what the chokes looked like   So I don't know what that blueish crud was but I completely dismantled the carbs and ran them through my friend's ultrasonic cleaner (same friend that sold me the bike). He had compressed air too, so I was able to blow out all the channels after the soup. I rebuilt them meticulously, using the new parts from the carb kit. Having the floats be springy on the new float needles was very satisfying for a guy who didn't really know what carbs were a few weeks before. Having the carbs properly cleaned, with functioning chokes, gave me high hopes that I'd have a running engine in short order. I was wrong. I think I spent about an hour after reinstalling the carbs trying to get the engine started with no luck. That was last weekend. So the terror of a noobie who doesn't know what the problem is, I think it's probably similar to drowning. You are mentally flailing around trying to figure out what the problem is. I had a few theories - maybe one of the exhausts is plugged, or full of water? Maybe there's no compression in one of the cylinders! Maybe I've got spark, but the spark is weak despite it being blue. Maybe it really is the drat airbox not being connected and running the carbs lean. Around this point I came across this article which really helped me, maybe because I had learned enough about the carbs and the whole system at this point for it to really sink in all the points in the article. It's short but information dense - "if you're seeing this, check on this". My friend at one point had told me I might have to take apart the petcock - he had taken apart the carbs but had never taken a look at the petcock. So last wednesday I went to take a look at things for the umpteenth time and realized I had the drat petcock turned to "on" instead of "prime" or "reserve". In my defense, I hadn't held the kneepad up to the bike that has the markings on it for what direction the petcock should go. With this breakthrough, I turned the petcock to prime and spent another half hour trying to start the bike again. I was extremely close. I could hear ignition, and the engine started turning faster than just the starter. I knew I was close, but I had also run down the battery over the weekend trying to get it started with no gas. I left it overnight with the petcock on "prime" and took the battery inside to get a full charge on my trickle charger. The next day with a full charge I was able to get it started for the first time. I recorded audio of the miracle: https://soundcloud.com/mewsemewse/1987-ninja-250-first-start I let it run for about half an hour to see if I could adjust idle a bit and get the oil circulating https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FYi4_EBX6k Oh god I just accidentally closed this window but ctrl-shift-T got it back. So when it started running, there were white puffs out the left exhaust but the right exhaust was clear. Both were pushing air which was nice. A bunch of smoke came off various parts of the bike that hadn't been run in years, but after that had cleared away the left exhaust seemed to be leaking some fluid on the ground and bubbling/smoking. I started making mental plans about how to get the exhaust welded back together after all the fluid had drained out of it, but then realized there was a coolant hose above the exhaust, dripping onto it. When I mentioned this to my friend he said "oh yeah your bike might be missing a coolant reservoir". The only good thing about that is that this bike was only made two years: 86 and 87 so parts are loving scarce. But the coolant reservoir was carried into the subsequent model that was in production for 19 years, so a local dealership was selling it for $35 canadian and I was able to find it on ebay for $27 with bolts, cap, and hoses attached. I tried starting it again yesterday, a day after my breakthrough, and it was just as hard starting as it was the first time. Knowing that the coolant system is empty, I'm going to leave it alone for now because I don't want it to burn out. The thermometer for the cooling system is measuring an empty radiator so it doesn't even know anything is wrong. Parts I have installed:
Stuff I have to do
Parts I've ordered
Parts I have put in an online shopping cart and stared at mournfully (cost more than I paid for the bike)
Anyway thank you if you've read this far, I have wanted to post a thread but haven't felt comfortable while I was struggling to even get the engine started. Now that I have the engine running my confidence has been bolstered substantially and I think I'm going to be able to get this bike to the point where it passes a safety inspection and I'll actually be able to ride it, like, on the roads. e: gonna throw in goals.jpg mewse fucked around with this message at 06:18 on May 27, 2018 |
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May 27, 2018 06:00
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 13:27 |
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Welp that sure is a bike. Is it a GPX? GPZ? Other? That blue stuff is what you get when the bike is parked for years without draining the carbs, it's petrol's final form! Your difficulty in starting is probably because your pilot screws and idle are all set wonky as gently caress. Try putting the pilots to 1.5-2 turns out and going from there. It's already idling ludicrously high, presumably because you or others have cranked the idle up to compensate. If you ran it for half an hour with nothing in the cooling system the engine is finished, sorry 
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May 27, 2018 06:23
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Slavvy posted:Welp that sure is a bike. Is it a GPX? GPZ? Other? EX250E2 afaik
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May 27, 2018 06:32
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Slavvy posted:If you ran it for half an hour with nothing in the cooling system the engine is finished, sorry If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's the coolant overflow reservoir, so it was dripping on the exhaust as the coolant in the system warmed up/expanded. Maybe. Yeah... before you spend any more money on this, put in that reservoir or bypass it, flush & fill the coolant system, and make certain you didn't nuke the engine. Cool thread. When you get to the tires, do not buy the ones that came with the bike, they're absolute trash. Ninja250.org has a list you can run through, and I very much like the Pirelli Sport Demons. https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_tire_makes_are_available_that_fit_the_250%3F
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May 27, 2018 18:15
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TheNothingNew posted:If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's the coolant overflow reservoir, so it was dripping on the exhaust as the coolant in the system warmed up/expanded. Maybe. I'm sufficiently alarmed and I think I'm going to change the oil/oil filter as well. quote:Cool thread. When you get to the tires, do not buy the ones that came with the bike, they're absolute trash. Ninja250.org has a list you can run through, and I very much like the Pirelli Sport Demons. Thanks! I was looking at Pirelli MT75, not pressing any more order buttons until engine is sorted out obv
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May 27, 2018 18:34
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Keep it going, this is extremely my jam 
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May 27, 2018 19:38
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Sport demons are the best tyre for that sort of bike by a country mile.
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May 27, 2018 20:16
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mewse posted:I'm sufficiently alarmed and I think I'm going to change the oil/oil filter as well. Excuse me, I just went to check and I have the MT75, not the sport demon. Have Sport Demons on the Honda. Like them both.
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May 27, 2018 20:48
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Now that you have disregarded any sensible advice you may have gotten about this being the worst way to get into motorcycles, that's really good progress. While you've got everything pretty stripped down, check your valve clearances now and set them to spec. It's a lot easier now and if you have to reset anything, it'll mean a little more futzing with the carbs anyhow. You'll also find out in that process if you need a new valve cover gasket (you probably do), and that's way easier to fix early in a rebuild than on down the road. For that matter, just buy a new gasket for every bit you take apart and replace them as you go so you don't have to do it after you think you've finished the whole project and start springing oil leaks everywhere. Just get a new petcock and fuel line. Do your brakes. Get a caliper rebuild kit (usually just a set of seals for the piston and maybe a couple for passages through mated surfaces) and new pads (HH organics should be fine), and fluid. You really should install new brake lines if the ones on the bike are stock, but they could probably wait until later. Seriously, rebuild your brakes. Don't gently caress around with old lovely brakes. Good poo poo, keep going. That bike has good bones. edit: Your left fork tube looks fuuuuuucked. If that's just surface rust, it might be ok. Either way, your forks need a rebuild too. Seals, wipers, fluid, and the tubes need a thorough cleaning. Surface imperfections like that rust really gently caress up seals, so scrub them with a fine scotchbrite pad until the rust is gone. If there's deep pitting (deep = something you can feel with your fingernail when you scrape across it), you'll need a new fork tube. HenryJLittlefinger fucked around with this message at 17:51 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 17:47
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HenryJLittlefinger posted:Now that you have disregarded any sensible advice you may have gotten about this being the worst way to get into motorcycles, that's really good progress. I'm not good at making decisions quote:While you've got everything pretty stripped down, check your valve clearances now and set them to spec. It's a lot easier now and if you have to reset anything, it'll mean a little more futzing with the carbs anyhow. You'll also find out in that process if you need a new valve cover gasket (you probably do), and that's way easier to fix early in a rebuild than on down the road. Have you got any good links or youtubes for this process? I'd need to get feeler gauges right? quote:Just get a new petcock and fuel line. There's a NOS part on ebay but won't the rubber be 30 years old? Is there a way I could find a cheaper compatible part with the same footprint on the tank? I guess the switch integrated into the knee panel is pretty unique :/ quote:Do your brakes. Get a caliper rebuild kit (usually just a set of seals for the piston and maybe a couple for passages through mated surfaces) and new pads (HH organics should be fine), and fluid. You really should install new brake lines if the ones on the bike are stock, but they could probably wait until later. Seriously, rebuild your brakes. Don't gently caress around with old lovely brakes. Thanks, I'll try to do all this and it should put me in good shape for the safety inspection down the line.
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May 28, 2018 19:30
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mewse posted:Have you got any good links or youtubes for this process? I'd need to get feeler gauges right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JzfuOTy1lo Pay special attention to the second comment about not removing the radiator, and also read this. Yes, you'll need feeler gauges. mewse posted:There's a NOS part on ebay but won't the rubber be 30 years old? https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_fsrp=1&_osacat=10063&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=ex250+petcock+kit&_sacat=10063 E: Remove and inspect your current petcock before dropping coin on that NOS one. Dagen H fucked around with this message at 20:08 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 20:05
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Dagen H posted:https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_fsrp=1&_osacat=10063&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=ex250+petcock+kit&_sacat=10063 Fortnine has those kits, I'll have to disassemble and take a look. A cheap side panel from Quebec with original decals showed up 
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May 28, 2018 21:45
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Actually, just pull your current petcock apart and check it for function. There's a lot of rebuild kits for other bikes, and I bet that one is no exception. If it's hosed, a lot of people use Yamaha Raptor petcocks to fit a variety of tanks. For some reason it's a universal go-to. I've got one on my Yamaha street bike and Suzuki dirt bike. They're cheap and common. For pretty much everything you'll need to do, check the Ninja 250 forums first and get active on them. They're such a ubiquitous and loved bike that I bet every task in a rebuild has been done and done again until there's a single go-to tutorial. The owners' communities for cult bikes like that get giddy when someone comes around with the intent to do a full rebuild. So that will be your best source for a walkthrough on checking and setting valve clearances, and Dagen H has your links for you. In addition to your brakes and fork, add rear shock and wheel bearings to your list. There's not much you can do to refresh a rear shock, but there's probably a good replacement out there (forums will know) if necessary. Those are all things that are pretty crucial to safety and fun, and when you do them at the very beginning, they're easiest and you won't have to touch them again for a long time. Does that bike have a cush drive? If so, learn how to check the condition. The cush rubbers are usually affordable, but can be difficult to find and if you need new ones it may take you a while to get some tracked down.
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May 28, 2018 23:11
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Ex250 shock bolts in and has a preload adjuster, makes a huge difference to the handling.
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May 29, 2018 01:01
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Slavvy posted:Ex250 shock bolts in and has a preload adjuster, makes a huge difference to the handling. I don't think it's the same for 86-87 vs 88-07 is it?
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May 29, 2018 01:44
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mewse, you are a self hating maniac and have found new and interesting ways to make your life hell. I love it. Please don't stop posting.Slavvy posted:Sport demons are the best tyre for that sort of bike by a country mile. This is true and good.
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May 29, 2018 02:20
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So... how much did your friend pay you to tow the bike away?
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May 29, 2018 02:56
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mewse posted:I don't think it's the same for 86-87 vs 88-07 is it? Well, an ex250 shock bolts into a gpz, a gpx, a zzr AND an American market 'pregen'. It's exceedingly unlikely yours has some bizarro shock, but it's like a fifteen minute job to take it out and measure the relevant dimensions.
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May 29, 2018 06:02
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Wtf double post.
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May 29, 2018 06:02
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Slavvy posted:Well, an ex250 shock bolts into a gpz, a gpx, a zzr AND an American market 'pregen'. It's exceedingly unlikely yours has some bizarro shock, but it's like a fifteen minute job to take it out and measure the relevant dimensions. One serious note here: anytime someone who is good at wrenching tells you a thing will take X time, it will take you at least 4X. Then you’ll get more comfortable and it will only take 2x. Then you’ll work your way down to telling other people “it’s a one beer job.” And they’ll be the ones taking an entire Sunday to change an air filter.
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May 29, 2018 13:57
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builds character posted:One serious note here: anytime someone who is good at wrenching tells you a thing will take X time, it will take you at least 4X. Then you’ll get more comfortable and it will only take 2x. Then you’ll work your way down to telling other people “it’s a one beer job.” And they’ll be the ones taking an entire Sunday to change an air filter. Yeah, this is true. It's having done a job before that makes it short. But it's good to take extra time for jobs the first time around and during a rebuild. By the time you finish, you'll know just about everything there is to know about that bike, and a whole shitload more about bikes in general by extension.
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May 29, 2018 18:24
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builds character posted:One serious note here: anytime someone who is good at wrenching tells you a thing will take X time, it will take you at least 4X. Then you’ll get more comfortable and it will only take 2x. Then you’ll work your way down to telling other people “it’s a one beer job.” And they’ll be the ones taking an entire Sunday to change an air filter. I have to remind myself of this every time my missus volunteers to do something on her bike.
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May 29, 2018 20:33
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Back in 2010 I took the motorcycle safety course that's mandatory in Manitoba to get your motorcycle learner's license, and I failed it because the bike stalled out but it was their lovely bike, a buell blast, and the transmission was very bad. Anyway that was a 2 day course and I was super pissed afterward because there were no re-tests back then (there are now), it was just "thanks for your money, bye". So I just took the 1-day course today for "experienced riders" and passed the test, so now I have my learner's license once I visit the manitoba version of the DMV
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May 29, 2018 23:10
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Coydog posted:mewse, you are a self hating maniac and have found new and interesting ways to make your life hell. I love it. Please don't stop posting. Just curious did you read my earlier threads "mewse takes up boxing and is not good at it" or "mewse takes a volunteer position at a non-profit and the stress nearly kills him"
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May 30, 2018 01:28
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Yo, I don't usually come into Cycle Asylum but I did tonight and saw this thread and I must applaud you as you're living a dream I've had for quite some time re: finding some old lovely junker bike and fixing it up. This owns, I really hope you get this working great and have tons of fun riding it around.
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Jun 9, 2018 05:14
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MC Hawking posted:Yo, I don't usually come into Cycle Asylum but I did tonight and saw this thread and I must applaud you as you're living a dream I've had for quite some time re: finding some old lovely junker bike and fixing it up. Thanks, I appreciate it. I've wanted to do a project like this for years but last year I took the leap from apartment to house so I have a big-rear end shed to store bikes now. Regarding the bike, I am kinda in a holding pattern for now, waiting for the coolant reservoir to show up. I was able to get the stock airbox hooked up last night with a new air filter, and I have a better appreciation for why my buddy kept saying "you should just install some pod air filters". I also picked up feeler gauges so that I can do the valve clearance, I might tackle that this weekend. I had a whole whack of parts show up that are kinda irrelevant until I get the mechanicals fixed - front turn signal, new seats (with sticker showing tune-up info including valve clearances), the missing knee panel, the lower fairing (p excited I found one)
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Jun 9, 2018 05:36
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I went 500R but i am going to try my hand at some fairing crack repair this summer. also eagerly following. Loving this as i strongly suspect my second bike purchase will be some $250 craigslist drag-off and i might as well stay in the family
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Jun 9, 2018 17:07
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Jonny 290 posted:I went 500R but i am going to try my hand at some fairing crack repair this summer. also eagerly following. Loving this as i strongly suspect my second bike purchase will be some $250 craigslist drag-off and i might as well stay in the family Here's the video that has my hopes up that I will be able to repair my fairings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG9gbrLGLy0 It's just clear JB weld + aluminum tape to build new tabs, then sanded down and painted.
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Jun 9, 2018 19:46
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mewse posted:Thanks, I appreciate it. I've wanted to do a project like this for years but last year I took the leap from apartment to house so I have a big-rear end shed to store bikes now. You are going to be so glad you got a stock airbox when it only takes you a few days to get the carbs tuned and synched correctly, after which you have smooth reliable power delivery throughout the throttle range. As opposed to never having a good tune and always having mixture problems and by extension lovely idle and dead spots.
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Jun 9, 2018 21:39
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mewse posted:Here's the video that has my hopes up that I will be able to repair my fairings: Thanks for that vid. That is a method I had not seen before, and looks effective. OP, nice thread, can't wait to see more. I haven't seen of of the early Ninja 250s in many years, and always liked the way they looked. Good luck with yours.
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Jun 14, 2018 00:58
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Flint Ironstag posted:Thanks for that vid. That is a method I had not seen before, and looks effective. Thanks! This is the "tune up specs" sticker I found on my new seat:  This is the first time I read that I should be running 91 octane gas in this thing. Running 87 with ethanol in it was probably part of the engine suffering. The coolant reservoir showed up and I couldn't resist getting the fuel tank hooked up (with premium gas ofc) and seeing how it runs. It ran well, but letting it warm up and then tune the idle, it was acting funny. I would turn the throttle up-down and it would rev up but wouldn't return to idle -- I don't know the term for this, bad throttle response? High idle? I am hoping doing the valve clearances and syncing the carbs will take care of this. I've ordered vacuum restrictors and vinyl tubing to do a redneck youtube vacuum tester e: holy lord it would cost me $45 to get the rubber strap for battery+airbox from ebay mewse fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 15:41
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I'm pretty sure RON 91 is 87 in the US, so I think you're fine on that. I can't imagine a 1987 ninja 250 needing 91 octane gas.
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Jun 15, 2018 17:29
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MomJeans420 posted:I'm pretty sure RON 91 is 87 in the US, so I think you're fine on that. I can't imagine a 1987 ninja 250 needing 91 octane gas. Oh, I didn't know that. I'm going to keep running 91 until I get the engine squared away just because it's ethanol free and removes another variable.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:13
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looks like '87 was 12:1 compression and 88 started 12.4:1 compression and more aggressive ignition advance. Pretty sure cheapgas will be fine. Regardless, you are doing a good good by not running poo poo gas through it. I'm going to try as hard as I can to feed my 500 through the ethanol-free station on this side of town.
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Jun 16, 2018 01:17
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I'm 12.65:1 and only have to use 89, I wonder if there are any bikes that require 91? Probably a Ducati or something else exotic and Italian. I've always heard running too high an octane can decrease performance (like 91 if your bike wants 87), but I have no idea if that actually is noticeable in real life.
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Jun 16, 2018 01:40
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that's 110% bullshit the reverse is definitely true, but only damage being done running premium in an engine that specifies regular is to your wallet. e10 concerns are real, though.
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Jun 16, 2018 06:12
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Drained and replaced the coolant today. Confirmed once and for all that I wasn't running it dry, which was heartening. Wanted to change the oil but I don't have a socket big enough.. reading now, looks like it's 17mm. Still summoning courage to do valve clearances, and waiting for parts for carb sync
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Jun 17, 2018 23:15
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mewse posted:Drained and replaced the coolant today. Confirmed once and for all that I wasn't running it dry, which was heartening. Setting valve clearance isn't hard, just long and tedious. Go slow, and be careful not to drop anything into the engine while it's open, you can do this. Make certain you have the right tool for the job, though; I went to a plain old auto parts store for a set of feeler gauges and they didn't have anything small enough because all they had was for spark plugs.
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Jun 18, 2018 05:26
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Valve clearance is very easy and you'll wonder why you were worried about it. Generally the biggest PITA is getting at them. Some tips: 1. Make sure you are on the correct stroke. 2. Put rags (not disintegrating ones) or something else to cover any holes where you might accidentally drop something. 3. Make very very tiny turns on the tappet screw to tighten/loosen. 4. Better too loose than too tight, but out of spec is never good. 5. Hold the tappet screw in place when tightening the nut, or the screw will turn and undo your work. I use a small needle nose pliers with an angled tip for both holding and turning the screw. 6. Recheck the clearance after torquing down the nut, to make sure the screw didn't shift. 7. Take your time, everything is slow and tedious the first time.
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Jun 18, 2018 23:29
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Adding to that, take the spark plugs out. Makes it a lot easier to get the engine in the right spot.
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Jun 18, 2018 23:55
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