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Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



better than JayzTwoCents tweet about how he has guns and is prepared to take a life if his property is in danger

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Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Some Goon posted:

I believe you, given that he's a navy brat, but got a link? I don't Twitter and have a morbid interest in seeing peoples stupidity.

Linus's heart may have been in the right place but jfc.

looks like he deleted. there was a significant amount of backlash. i think the dude has morals and i appreciate his ethics regarding sponsors and what he is willing to take money to shill, but his post was a pretty poor choice and his responses weren't much better.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



That's kind of the entire GN brand, though.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



I like the "read off an A4" style because it fits what Steve is all about. He's the complete opposite of Linus. Linus is all about theatrics and everything has to be dramatic. Steve just gives it to you straight. I put on his recaps when I'm doing dishes or whatever. Also, his undramatic dead pan deliveries mean that when he gets heated about something it actually matters. GN takedowns are infinitely more effective and meaningful than those of other channels.

But, at the same time it is fun when they do break from it so I can understand the comment wishing they'd do it more. I'd just hate for them to become tryhard like many of the other tech channels.

GN will always hold the award for the most viscerally disturbing 40 seconds of PC hardware content ever filmed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUWVVTY63hc

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Mu Zeta posted:

I'm certain Jayztwocents fantasizes about people trying to rob him and being able to kill them with a shotgun.

He said so when the BLM protests were near/in his city and had a meltdown when people called him out and unfollowed/unsubbed him over it. Heís a massive piece of poo poo.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



He's a shill but he'll never approach the shill levels of Unbox Therapy and his 17 million subscriber infomercial channel.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Who need thermal paste? Just cook steak on your CPU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAEXuONMJCQ

(i've probably already posted this dude in this thread but his channel is full of CPU cooking vids)

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Not worth getting IRL angry about YouTube tech idiot loot boxes imho

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Shame he can't shoot COVID like he wants to do to BLM protesters.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Those guys just can't catch a break. I didn't usually watch much of their stuff but they seem to be good guys.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Romes128 posted:

I too, find Austin Evans annoying.

Hey guys, it's Austin!


(did you read that in his voice in your head? cause I did)

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed/status/1373609792330076167

Well HardwareUnboxed loses my respect for that opinion.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Rabid Snake posted:

I think its more of the fact that asians get harassed all the time with people mocking them by talking to them in a fake asian accent. I know at school people would do that to bully asians. Its kind of like the Apu accent in the Simpsons. I know Indians who got heavily bullied with the Apu accent in school too. They would speak with an american accent but kids would mimic the apu accent when talking to them.

Like he's normalizing laughing at a fake asian accent in his Lyle persona. It's hosed up.

Also Asians are not a single homogenous block with identical shared experiences. I won't pretend to know his background but he appears to be born in the US/Canada and is fairly integrated. Making fun of Asians who have accidents is still hosed up, even if he is Asian, because he's not a recent immigrant and doesn't have to deal with all the bullshit that they do. Learning a new language is hard, and if you learn/move as an adult you will likely never rid yourself of the accent. That on top of the other racist stereotypes he piles on with his character makes it pretty gross. It's an attempt to push down those that came later and weren't lucky enough to be born here. Kind of like the anti-immigrant stance that exists in a lot of the Cuban-American community in Miami. It's using your position of privilege to bully and belittle those who came after you.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



not even watercooled?

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



I insist that everyone refer to me by my highest level of education, so that everyone I ever meet knows I am a Bachelor.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Linus (on the WAN show) just finished his defense of his positive review of the 3080TI when everybody else in the industry trashed the card.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



People love a charming, personable shill. Some of the most popular tech/review channels are nothing but shills (the most egregious of which being Unbox Therapy on the extreme end with folks like Marques Brownlee in the grey area of "seems legit but deep down is just a shill").

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.




Fantastic opening.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



The entire point of the exercise is to find pre-builts that could be recommended to non-computer people, since not every computer-knower wants to build and support a system for all their friends and family. So, even if parts were purchasable at retail prices (or at all), you also have to factor in support/warranty on top of labor. The point is not to find the exact parts you want but somehow cheaper in a pre-built.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Those are some heavy shackles, though.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



They absolutely have their use cases but I'm not sure I would recommend one for somebody who wanted a desktop but couldn't get a GPU unless I knew that they absolutely fit the gaming laptop use case.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Would have been cool if it was just the PC sounds without the voice over.

Also, lol that Linus is physically incapable of maintaining a whisper and keeps slipping out of it.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Klyith posted:

Did you then inform your wife that she makes like a million dollars every month doing that?

Not anymore. Twitch just banned her for the very stream that our fellow goon watched with his wife.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



The "think of the kids" thing is bullshit. Twitch's content rules are already more strict that Youtube's. If you think Twitch is a danger to your children then your children should not be online unsupervised because every single one of them is on Youtube.

The fact that most of the anti-women-in-bikinis rants are from single childless men shows how shallow it is. It is just another way to try to keep women down. Men are angry that the site has moved from gaming to "Just Chatting", and now it is full of women in "their domain".

What Twitch SHOULD do is enforce the "mature content" filters.

EVIL Gibson posted:

Its hard for parents to monitor their kids today.

Also the same parents usually have a lot of cards.

Nothing stopping a lonely kid from buying a donation and hear a real person say their username without the feeling of judgement.

Imagine all the boomers had the same instant access instead of having to deal with squinting at the tv scrambling for a hint of boob on playboy.

This is a terrible argument. The same unsupervised kids who have access to their parent's cards can also just hop on any porn site.

I'm not even a boomer and even I had access to the boomer equivalent of internet porn as a child: a plastic bag full of porn mags discarded in the woods behind the bus stop

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Canine Blues Arooo posted:

This is just not true. I have no horse in this race and I also don't really like Twitch, but that is just a dumb thing to say and does nothing to help fix the actual underlying issues at play here.

What do you view as the underlying issues?

Seeing as you don't like Twitch, perhaps you are not aware of what the actual arguments being made are? Because there are a LOT of on record rants from male streamers targeting women for "having it easy" on Twitch and lamenting the downfall of Twitch from a place for gamers to what it is today. Not to mention the harassment from viewers.

If the argument really is about social decency, then perhaps they should do a better job policing the hate in their community before they worry about women wearing the wrong clothes.

EDIT: This culture war has been going on for at least half a decade on Twitch. The hot tub category is not the primary or sole issue here. The hot tub category is Twitch trying to compromise and find a place for multiple, often incompatible, segments of their community.

Tuxedo Gin fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Jun 22, 2021

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Canine Blues Arooo posted:

I don't work for Twitch or Amazon, but I've been close enough to issues like this that I feel that I can ID the root cause with a very high degree of confidence: Advertisers.

Additional disclosure: I don't like Twitch, but I do keep up with the subculture - partially because I work in the industry and it's more or less unavoidable, but partially because I feel a need to understand what the hell is happening in that sphere. I've been watching it since Justin, and while I prefer to watch the more 'boomer' streamers like Kripp, I'll watch the popular streamers of whatever game I happen to be working on at the time.

Anyway, Advertisers...

The 'booba' stream is not new. It might have been more subtle in the earlier days, but it was a massive part of the popular games of the day. The top League streamer for years in the early 2010s was a female streamer who really leaned into that subgenre, but other games had similar women doing roughly the same thing with a ton of success stories. At the time, no one cared - Advertisers didn't care because they didn't have a clue what the gently caress was going on and Streaming was still young. Twitch *certainly* didn't care because advertiser money flowed heavy and fast.

Even at the time, the conversation among some of the B and C-list Twitch streamers was all about how being an attractive female was easy street for views. I don't have stats on that and the thing is, it doesn't even matter. Finding success on Twitch is mostly luck, but it's also about finding your audience and carving out the niche of your show. These women did that very well. Everyone is happy because everyone is getting paid a shitload to let it ride.

Fast forward almost a decade, and these same niches exist, but the big change that's afoot is that targeted advertising is becoming scary good at picking it's audience, and advertisers are becoming more familiar with Twitch as a platform, and in the streaming world as a whole. The tools for choosing who you market to are truly insane on these well-developed platformers and this usher's in a new change: Selectively picking who you market to with high precision, and what channels you market on. This is generally done via explicit and inferred demographic information, but also by stream tags, stream content, and of course, stream categories. This was originally a feature unique to AdSense, and especially prevalent on YouTube, but there is historical precedent for this kind of division and sequestering long before Twitch's kerfuffle. There is a reason why some Youtube views pay $1.00 / 1000 views, and others pay $10.00 / thousand views: Bidding wars on a very specific set of demos and content.

Brands are very controlling of their brand perception, and they market very selectively. If your ad starts to run on a stream featured on booba.tv, that 'Might Make The Brand Look Badô', depending on what you are marketing and the personal feelings of whomever is making those decisions. If enough advertisers ask Twitch for tools to better choose where they market, then we land where we are today.

Here's what very likely happened: A critical mass of the advertising income has requested to be granted a way to remove themselves from that pool of content. Twitch doesn't and can't just flag streams for arbitrary content, so they make a set of changes that can support the changes requested: A new category of streams. Advertisers can explicitly opt out. In the meantime, Twitch keeps that money in-network and just channels it elsewhere on the platform.

Twitch does not give a poo poo about the children. Twitch doesn't care about the 'attractive women have it easy' culture war nonsense. Twitch's primary and only motivation here is, 'Our viewership is a very lucrative marketing demo -- how do we make this platform attractive for marketing?' This was a compromise designed for marketing purposes and nothing else. This has literal zero to do with some men being mad at women.

Thanks for a well thought out reply that is a lot more informative than "that is a dumb thing to say".

Twitch's motivations, as you lay them out, are totally unrelated to all the previous points in this thread, and all the points being raised by Twitch's community. Even if Twitch's motivations are solely advertising related (which I'll concede is probably likely), the conversation in the community (and in this thread so far) is not about their advertising, but it is about social decency, policing women, and misogynists being angry. You're looking solely at Twitch's decision to create a new category from a business/industry standpoint, and completely ignoring what conversations are happing as a result of that decision. So I'll retract the part of my post that says Twitch created hot tub streaming as a compromise. Either way, its mere existence has fanned the flames. The conversation out there is still about morality, not about advertising. "Think of the children" is stupid here.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



As someone who mods for a woman streamer that dresses conservatively, I can anecdotally say that she gets a lot more "woman shouldn't play video games, you are poo poo. go back to the kitchen" comments than sexual harassment as a result of bikini streamers existing. And the sexual harassment would happen regardless of the presence of bikini streamers. Women literally can't go anywhere on the internet and not get comments from dudes telling them to show off their tits. That sexual harassment is a deep cultural issue related to the internet that has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not there are women who wear bikinis or yoga pants on Twitch.

To tie this back to the thread's actual content, I have honestly been really impressed with Linus' channel and community for the level of support women presenters get in the comments. I'm sure there is a lot of hate that gets deleted but I haven't seen any of it yet.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



VostokProgram posted:

The internet was a mistake

100% agree

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Licarn posted:

The streamers that have complained about the hot-tub and ASMR metas are the likes of Pokimane and Malena who are big enough that they show up near these streams in the directory and in the recommended bar for them, and the big ASMR-specific streamers like CopyKat who show up right next to them when they're in that category.

Trying to play this off as being about "women who wear bikinis or yoga pants" is disingenuous. They're wearing a bikini, while writing the names of donors on the inside of their thighs and humping an inflatable banana, and wearing yoga pants, while laying spreadeagle on a bed, licking and moaning into a 3Dio. What they're wearing is incidental to what they're doing. It's understandable that other streamers don't want to be associated with this.

Which is exactly why Twitch should enforce proper tagging and categorizing or streams. They should also enforce the mature content toggle, not just for women writing people's names on their thighs, but also for the guys with 1.5 million followers and 10k+ active subs going off about "fingerbanging chicks" and talking about dicks and other sexual content. It's absolutely understandable that people don't want to be associated with such content, and it is up to Twitch to properly categorize and serve up the content to who they want to see it. There is absolutely nothing immoral or even indecent about writing donors names on your body and licking a microphone, so it is pretty disingenuous to get all worked up about it on a site where you can watch ultraviolent games or listen to highly sexual ranting and other questionable poo poo, including borderline if not outright radicalizing content.

Most of all Twitch needs to be clear. One of the big issues is that they arbitrarily ban people for poo poo that everyone else is doing. Their content rules are specifically vague and their enforcement is sporadic and inconsistent. If they want to decide that Twitch is not the space for such content, then they need to make their policy clear. Until them, lay the blame on Twitch for failing to manage their content properly rather than getting all worked up about people doing whatever they can to earn a living in a highly competitive and hosed up market.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

I donít think itís fair to stay that LTT shouldnít do content like that because lovely channels like MKBHD exist.

And LTT has decided the content they want to make is geared towards high end stuff. Thereís plenty of review channels for mid range and low end stuff. Thereís absolutely no reason LTT has to do low end if they donít want to, as long as theyíre honest like youíre saying they are (I donít watch LTT).

Honestly, LTT not doing low and mid range stuff is a blessing because it leaves room in the market for smaller but quality channels that can't do the high end stuff and would be stomped by LTT's videos about low/mid stuff.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



well why not posted:

Linus is a man with three children. Most YouTube people are manchildren.

A lot of YouTube manchildren are raising children.

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Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



The Grumbles posted:

I mean, I feel like your second point kind of undercuts your first there. You don't have to be an expert in all things tech to be a tech journalist, as you say, and it's fairly likely that the publication said "pc building videos are ranking high on SEO right now, you need to do one pronto", and he wasn't given the time or resources to properly do his research. When you're early career in a hyper competitive enthusiast press you'll probably feel a huge amount of pressure to do what you're told. The pressure to wing it instead of passing up the job as a young guy with one of the few jobs in a dying but coveted industry will be immense.

And I can totally see it being a cascade of failures, where the video editor (also working to an unreasonable deadline) uses the footage where the guy says tweezers instead of zip ties (people misspeak ALL THE TIME when presenting to camera. I've had to edit out so many people with actual expertise saying completely the opposite of what they mean plenty of times), they use the wrong shots in the wrong order, etc etc etc.

Obviously I'm speculating, but then so is everyone else who is assuming that this is all him running off his own steam, or that there weren't a million stupid logistical reasons for how the final edit turned out how it did (which includes misinformation said directly to camera).

If he was a youtuber working solo, I'd agree with you on your first point. But honestly the fault completely lies with the publisher. It's the whole job of the editorial chain above you to decide whether or not your content passes the bar for quality - and to give you the time and resources you need to do a proper job. And if people in your editorial chain (or in the editing bay) don't have the expertise to decide which footage to use - especially in a video that's supposed to be educational like this - then you either budget to bring on a behind the scenes consultant, or you don't commission the content at all.

The company deserves the lion's share of the blame, but if you're somebody who is seriously thinking about making it as a media personality you can't just say yes to everything. He presented himself as an expert, while not being an expert, and he ate poo poo for it. Even if the response was again at the orders of the company, he sacrificed his ability to have any kind of future in tech media by letting them throw him under the bus. I do wish him all the best in his redemption tour and I don't think anybody deserves any form of hate dogpiling from the internet but that really was a bad video and his response was real bad, too. It's going to be hard for him to reclaim any kind of credibility - but it's possible.

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