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CYBEReris posted:I think that what makes a lot of us wary, especially those who like the genre, is that in classic cyberpunk it was very common for trans women to be described and depicted as emblematic of the degradation of society, as degenerate and perverse sex workers. So when we see this sort of exploitation up front what we think is "Ah poo poo, here we go again". true. i think its more that I trust Pondsmith and he has always been woke and progressive in good ways and he is pretty active in the development apparently. to me the ads are gross in the sense that its basicaly all those weird gross ads from the 1980s but this time also exploitive of trans/nb folk because its 2077 and no one cares about people being trans anymore now that you can make yourself look like a catgirl or an alien with cybernetics/genestuff. pondsmiths stuff is more 2000 AD than gibson.
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Oct 20, 2020 23:47
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The Gadfly posted:I thought Cyberpunk is supposed to be a dystopia? If it were a transphilic utopia with people flocking there due to it's non-explotative society and trans rights, then it would not be the setting that is trying to be portrayed? It's just my opinion, but I think the idea that that would be the only thing constrained by biology in a cyberpunk world is insane. It just doesn't make sense. It's not that it's a utpoia, it's that biological determinism lost the argument very hard a very long time ago and now they're the flat earthers of the future.
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Oct 20, 2020 23:49
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CYBEReris posted:I'm talking more about the Watson Whore thing than the Chromanticore thing there oh, k Dapper_Swindler posted:true. i think its more that I trust Pondsmith and he has always been woke and progressive in good ways and he is pretty active in the development apparently. to me the ads are gross in the sense that its basicaly all those weird gross ads from the 1980s but this time also exploitive of trans/nb folk because its 2077 and no one cares about people being trans anymore now that you can make yourself look like a catgirl or an alien with cybernetics/genestuff. pondsmiths stuff is more 2000 AD than gibson. Yeah, this is my take.
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Oct 20, 2020 23:51
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Dapper_Swindler posted:true. i think its more that I trust Pondsmith and he has always been woke and progressive in good ways and he is pretty active in the development apparently. to me the ads are gross in the sense that its basicaly all those weird gross ads from the 1980s but this time also exploitive of trans/nb folk because its 2077 and no one cares about people being trans anymore now that you can make yourself look like a catgirl or an alien with cybernetics/genestuff. pondsmiths stuff is more 2000 AD than gibson. I guess I want to repeat the question, is there a cis equivalent to Watson Whore? Why does it seem like trans women are the focal point for channeling the edginess of the setting?
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Oct 20, 2020 23:55
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The Gadfly posted:I thought Cyberpunk is supposed to be a dystopia? If it were a transphilic utopia with people flocking there due to it's non-explotative society and trans rights, then it would not be the setting that is trying to be portrayed? its not a dystopia in the sense of the new wolfenstein games where its a bunch of nazis assholes who shoot people because of skull measurements. its more like "what if all the awful poo poo from the 80s never ended really" its like a mix of robocop and the judge dredd comics but without the facist goverment. like the corpos are all encompasing and since no one gives a gently caress about hating trans/nb people anymore, corpos/tv/etc can exploit any gender on sexualized ads because it sells because the god of that universe is Mamon.
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Oct 21, 2020 00:00
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CYBEReris posted:I guess I want to repeat the question, is there a cis equivalent to Watson Whore? Why does it seem like trans women are the focal point for channeling the edginess of the setting? this is a good question, but it's one you would be better asking when the game comes out imo. we are peering at it through a keyhole.
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Oct 21, 2020 00:02
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Ash1138 posted:physically fit nomad goes to night city, gets pumped full of pierogies, doesn't feel good and changes - OBESITY. many such cases! How it started:  How it's going: Dapper_Swindler posted:its not a dystopia in the sense of the new wolfenstein games where its a bunch of nazis assholes who shoot people because of skull measurements. its more like "what if all the awful poo poo from the 80s never ended really" its like a mix of robocop and the judge dredd comics but without the facist goverment. like the corpos are all encompasing and since no one gives a gently caress about hating trans/nb people anymore, corpos/tv/etc can exploit any gender on sexualized ads because it sells because the god of that universe is Mamon. Hi, America called and would like its America back... 
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Oct 21, 2020 00:03
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sebmojo posted:this is a good question, but it's one you would be better asking when the game comes out imo. we are peering at it through a keyhole. Yeah, I was about to say, we're working off limited materials here. That Watson Whore thing seems pretty tasteless, but its also exactly the kind of thing you'd see in a Rockstar game (about cis people even). I could see there being equivalents for other characters, but we'll have to see when we can actually play more of the game how it balances out.
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Oct 21, 2020 00:04
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CYBEReris posted:I guess I want to repeat the question, is there a cis equivalent to Watson Whore? Why does it seem like trans women are the focal point for channeling the edginess of the setting? I'd say there's some stuff in the artbook that qualifies. There a page on that sex worker gang with the sort of art you'd expect on that topic, and some very explicit stuff related to pornographic braindance (which it says is a gigantic market in-universe with addiction being a serious problem). And a couple other in-universe advertisement pieces that aren't necessarily sex worker related but are def in the same vein of in-your-face commercialized sexuality. Don't think I've seen that stuff online though.
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Oct 21, 2020 00:06
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Dumb question: would it be worth it to get a physical copy of the game for PC? I know it's not an actual disc, and just a download code, but with the holidays coming up, I was considering it as a gift suggestion (in lieu of trying to figure out how to buy it as a gift digitally).
Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 00:07
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CYBEReris posted:I guess I want to repeat the question, is there a cis equivalent to Watson Whore? Why does it seem like trans women are the focal point for channeling the edginess of the setting? I'm probably not completely understanding what you're asking, but these are in the art/lore book    Apologies if its not addressing what you mean
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Oct 21, 2020 00:07
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CYBEReris posted:I guess I want to repeat the question, is there a cis equivalent to Watson Whore? Why does it seem like trans women are the focal point for channeling the edginess of the setting?   plenty exist. plus others in the trailer. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 00:07
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CYBEReris posted:Has anyone else been subjected to the level of exploitation that trans women have that we know about? I have only seen trans womens' genitals in marketing so far, aside from characters in-world being neutrally naked. I guess what I'm questioning is, is the exploitation really level? It seems like what we've seen so far has been very disproportionate. Remember that in addition to the Chromanticore poster there is also this: I'm not sure I fully understand this - could this not just be a cis man?
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Oct 21, 2020 00:07
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sebmojo posted:this is a good question, but it's one you would be better asking when the game comes out imo. we are peering at it through a keyhole. At this point, I'm not sure it matters. Everyone has picked a camp and the game coming out will only reinforce their positions: People who find it offensive will (rightfully) find more offensive things. People who find it inclusive will be thrilled at all of the references to a normally invisible (to mass marketing) group. Most people will ignore it. The people who won't ignore it are the Suits, who will only see that this controversy caused them to have to do their jobs a lot. I think the end result will not be better representation, which I think everyone wants, but a return to no representation at all because monied interests view it as  problematic.
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Oct 21, 2020 00:07
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sebmojo posted:this is a good question, but it's one you would be better asking when the game comes out imo. we are peering at it through a keyhole. This is all from material that they are using to promote the game to the public and to critics, it's a keyhole but what was in the room for people to peer into was put there deliberately. While I'm not privy to the end state of the game and hope to give it the benefit of the doubt I'm also not confident that when the reason for the highlighting of this exploitation is revealed I will be ashamed of my words and deeds.
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Oct 21, 2020 00:10
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gently caress me, use the timg tags, please.Max Wilco posted:Dumb question: would it be worth it to get a physical copy of the game for PC? I know it's not an actual disc, and just a download code, but with the holidays coming up, I was considering it as a gift suggestion (in lieu of trying to figure out how to buy it as a gift digitally). How much do you like maps and other junk? Because if you're like me and enjoy that useless crap then go for it. If you get it from Best Buy you can also get an equally useless steelbook case with some fancy art on it and because that's junk is my weakness I gobble it up. Profanity posted:I'm not sure I fully understand this - could this not just be a cis man? Maybe, but it just ties in to what CYBEReris is saying in that crossdressing, feminine men are just walking sex deviants that are denigrating the moral fiber of our WESTERN CIVILIZATION. Personally, I see it as kind of punching down and catering to certain, lovely groups online. In the grand scheme of things I'm sure there will be ads that attack vain men and women and non-marginalized groups but they're choosing to show off stuff that go after groups that, in this day in age, are threatened both politically and physically by keepers of the status quo. It'd be as if in Robocop, in those commercials they showed, were mostly depicting black "welfare queens", over-the-top gay men and yellow peril stereotypes. Then in promoting the film that's all they showed off of that movie's universe. Instead of that ads that attacked American consumerism and corporatism. And I say all this as someone who drat well hopes the game is good and is nothing like this shitshow of a marketing campaign but CD Projekt Red makes it real hard. If Witcher 3 wasn't as good as it was and didn't affect me in such a big way I would have wrote this game off a long time ago. Jimbot fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 00:13
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Watson is a former industrial district that has been abandoned and cut off as a ghetto for the incredibly poor. I read that poster as an ad for a show in the vein of COPS or any other lovely "point the camera at the poors to entertain the masses" reality TV we have today. "Your misery is our entertainment." I get why that is not something one might want to interact with in an escapist game, given that "your misery is our political football" is the world we live in now.
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Oct 21, 2020 00:20
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there's exploitation here, edge even, but nothing on the level of visible genitals. notice how in the abydos ad, for example, the man's junk is entirely concealed by the product. i understand if that line seems arbitrary to you, like i'm moving the goalposts, but that distinction is important to what I'm trying to get at.
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Oct 21, 2020 00:21
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CYBEReris posted:there's exploitation here, edge even, but nothing on the level of visible genitals. notice how in the abydos ad, for example, the man's junk is entirely concealed by the product. i understand if that line seems arbitrary to you, like i'm moving the goalposts, but that distinction is important to what I'm trying to get at. The wet dream poster has some serious package bulge going on, and the genitals aren't fully nude in any of them. This is also a world where a cyberdong is a product that exists that cis and trans people both get installed, and will likely have advertisements somewhere. But I don't disagree with you.
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Oct 21, 2020 00:26
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Max Wilco posted:Dumb question: would it be worth it to get a physical copy of the game for PC? I know it's not an actual disc, and just a download code, but with the holidays coming up, I was considering it as a gift suggestion (in lieu of trying to figure out how to buy it as a gift digitally). I think you can buy it on GoG.com and have them email it to whoever you want. They can then make an account or tie it to one they already have, iirc?
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Oct 21, 2020 00:27
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Jimbot posted:How much do you like maps and other junk? Because if you're like me and enjoy that useless crap then go for it. If you get it from Best Buy you can also get an equally useless steelbook case with some fancy art on it and because that's junk is my weakness I gobble it up. I mean, I was just planning to buy it directly from GOG, but then I saw it was coming out in November, and my birthday's the same month, so I thought I'd ask for it as a gift, because I was asked by a family member to come up with gift ideas, so I thought that would be the easiest way for someone to gift the PC version. I do like feelies, though. Profanity posted:I'm not sure I fully understand this - could this not just be a cis man? You know, when the whole advertisement controversy first hit, what I was expecting (half-seriously, half-jokingly) was that when they asked the artist or artists about it, they were going to go, "Wait, what?", and then realize that they had screwed up the shading on the illustration, but sent it to the level designers by mistake. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 00:32
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Profanity posted:I'm not sure I fully understand this - could this not just be a cis man? It is a cis man. If you check the Lifepaths video, at 2:04 you can see a television ad playing in the background that refers to the character as "He": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV8BTZ6_PWQ&t=124s
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Oct 21, 2020 00:49
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Max Wilco posted:Dumb question: would it be worth it to get a physical copy of the game for PC? I know it's not an actual disc, and just a download code, but with the holidays coming up, I was considering it as a gift suggestion (in lieu of trying to figure out how to buy it as a gift digitally). if they have a steam account you can gift them the games. its what i do.
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Oct 21, 2020 01:19
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Scab Eating Contest posted:It is a cis man. If you check the Lifepaths video, at 2:04 you can see a television ad playing in the background that refers to the character as "He": yeah. honestly i never looked at the watson whore close enough but yeah i agree. i think its just a cross dressing dude and not a transwomen or some hosed up "huur big titty lady chick with dick" because the person is clearly topless and it looks masculine. idk. i am very vanilla/boring when it comes to my erotic pursuits so i wouldnt know.
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Oct 21, 2020 01:22
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I'm enjoying the discussion in this thread.
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Oct 21, 2020 01:34
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punk rebel ecks posted:I'm enjoying the discussion in this thread. i mean its gonna be a cycle through topics like this until the 19th. i assume another trailer and such will be out soon.
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Oct 21, 2020 01:47
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So will this game be like Grand Theft Auto or not?
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Oct 21, 2020 02:49
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Remember when a bunch of people were saying Last Of Us 2 was going to be the most transphobic game about killing puppies of all time
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Oct 21, 2020 02:49
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Extremely angry about what I imagine the game to be
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Oct 21, 2020 03:00
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I ordered the lore book and official guide book I'm blaming everyone in this thread.
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Oct 21, 2020 03:08
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No Mods No Masters posted:Extremely nervous about whether or not I'm going to have to be angry about what I imagine the game to be
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Oct 21, 2020 03:12
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cheesetriangles posted:I ordered the lore book and official guide book I'm blaming everyone in this thread. The lore book is pretty nice
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Oct 21, 2020 03:14
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cheesetriangles posted:I ordered the lore book and official guide book I'm blaming everyone in this thread. its pretty solid. Zongerian posted:Remember when a bunch of people were saying Last Of Us 2 was going to be the most transphobic game about killing puppies of all time lol. i'll pick it up on sale for ps5 someday.
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Oct 21, 2020 03:23
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:So will this game be like Grand Theft Auto or not? It's a gta mod with added, checking notes, oh no
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Oct 21, 2020 03:45
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:People who find it offensive will (rightfully) find more offensive things. Honestly, yeah. When I started making trans friends, I started seeing more of what they were concerned about. It's hard to turn it off once you become aware of it, much like dysphoria that trans folks deal with. poo poo's bad for you in the long term.
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Oct 21, 2020 04:14
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I am never going to be surprised that, like clockwork, people who don't get dystopias and think that everything being presented is supposed to be considered acceptable and good by the creators show up and proceed to profoundly misunderstand every message.
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Oct 21, 2020 06:22
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ZombyDog posted:In Hardwired the Corporations won, they ascended to heaven, and when governments attempted to reassert control, the Corporate Blocs retaliated by dropping rocks down the orbital well, destroying cities, killing millions and fracturing nations. But it wasn't enough, although they had the stars they weren't free from the mud, they still needed resources, they still needed trade. High grade Orbital goods, like pharmaceuticals, computer cores, and cybernetic implants were relatively cheap around the space ports close to equator, but the further away from the Free Trade Zones the harder these products are to come by. Individual states would impose tariffs and restrictions and eke out a living on goods passing through their territory, getting to the point that it was more profitable to run contraband around the laws rather than with them. At first they'd run contraband through the air, in stealthed up jets called Deltas, and the Delta Jocks were born, pilots who flew their jets through the 'face, one with their machines. But soon the technological tide would turn, air defenses became impenetrable and the Deltas would be replaced by Panzers, uparmoured ground effect vehicles driven by Panzerboys and Panzergirls, still running the line and delivering the goods. And that's where the story kicks off. That does sound pretty darn cool. Thanks! cheesetriangles posted:Can't believe they are adding back in sex trading cards. What's this? (Edit: oh, it's a Witcher thing. I'm still level 11 in Witcher 3, no cards to speak of!) Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 06:33
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chitoryu12 posted:I am never going to be surprised that, like clockwork, people who don't get dystopias and think that everything being presented is supposed to be considered acceptable and good by the creators show up and proceed to profoundly misunderstand every message. This works better when the dev isn't being lovely on twitter about it. Heavy Metal posted:That does sound pretty darn cool. Thanks! Joke about Witcher 1.
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Oct 21, 2020 06:38
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chitoryu12 posted:I am never going to be surprised that, like clockwork, people who don't get dystopias and think that everything being presented is supposed to be considered acceptable and good by the creators show up and proceed to profoundly misunderstand every message. Trans people being sensitive about the portrayal of trans people in games based on a long long long history of being poo poo upon isn’t the same as people not “getting dystopias.” The game could in fact have a cutting and relevant message about the commodification of identity under capitalism and still have lovely trans representation.
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Oct 21, 2020 06:39
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cheesetriangles posted:Joke about Witcher 1. Gotcha, good to know.
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Oct 21, 2020 06:41
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