Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«8 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Cantaloupe
Apr 18, 2009

I'll be the rollinbout


Fun Shoe

I'm thinking about changing careers from no-level customer service to maybe doing something that actually means poo poo. I was looking at some of the local labor unions websites and a few of them have samples of the application exam and... they're loving extremely easy, like middle school math. Is this seriously all it takes to get a job making $30+/h? Or do you really have to know someone to get in and they just like to scam morons like me out of the $25 entrance fee?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008



It's getting out that's the hard part

TurboFlamingChicken
Sep 13, 2007

BIRB IS THE WIRB

I've worked for two unions in the past and in general it's pretty easy to get in and the pay is pretty good so in my experience it isn't that hard but I guess it also depends what industry you are in. And as far as I know they don't really give a poo poo about education just that you were willing to work hard and show up on time

Edgar
Sep 9, 2005

Oh my heck!
Oh heavens!
Oh my lord!
OH Sweet meats!

Yam Slacker

Are they any in the right to work state Utah for computer janitors?

Breakfast Feud
Feb 7, 2007


Fun Shoe

I used to be all for labour unions until I actually spent time around tradespeople in unions. They're the laziest most conniving, malingering bunch of idiot fuckers ever. The entire Union apparatus is no different than a corporation and it's full of fat cat idiots who's entire purpose in life is to argue. Even if management rolls out changes that are beneficial or increases pay or whatever the Union is going to be arguing for more or rejecting changes just for the gently caress of it.

Iron Croissant 64
Jun 2, 2018


Breakfast Feud posted:

I used to be all for labour unions until I actually spent time around tradespeople in unions. They're the laziest most conniving, malingering bunch of idiot fuckers ever. The entire Union apparatus is no different than a corporation and it's full of fat cat idiots who's entire purpose in life is to argue. Even if management rolls out changes that are beneficial or increases pay or whatever the Union is going to be arguing for more or rejecting changes just for the gently caress of it.

The way i see it unions are like lawyers. People who spend their whole time studying certain rules and they know how to exploit them. if you were in legal trouble you'd want a lawyer and if you're in work trouble you'd want a union rep. It doesnt mean tort reform or compliance with management policies arent beneficial to all involved.

Breakfast Feud
Feb 7, 2007


Fun Shoe

Iron Croissant 64 posted:

The way i see it unions are like lawyers. People who spend their whole time studying certain rules and they know how to exploit them. if you were in legal trouble you'd want a lawyer and if you're in work trouble you'd want a union rep. It doesnt mean tort reform or compliance with management policies arent beneficial to all involved.

In theory yes. In practice the Union doesn't work that way at all. They will totally fight tooth and nail to shelter anyone who's in their good books ie: politicking rear end-kissers and let everyone else hang out to dry. For whatever reason the sentiment in a Union is IF MANAGEMENT IS DOING IT THEN IT MUST BE BAD. Not that I want to defend management.

Everywhere with a Union is a loving toxic garbage work environment.

vandalism
Aug 4, 2003

sometimes... you just gotta break stuff.

Breakfast Feud posted:

I used to be all for labour unions until I actually spent time around tradespeople in unions. They're the laziest most conniving, malingering bunch of idiot fuckers ever. The entire Union apparatus is no different than a corporation and it's full of fat cat idiots who's entire purpose in life is to argue. Even if management rolls out changes that are beneficial or increases pay or whatever the Union is going to be arguing for more or rejecting changes just for the gently caress of it.

Just imagine if you didn't have that idiot fucker, but the corp has an idiot fucker to gently caress you without the aforementioned idiot fucker there to help you out, or at least try to stop him from loving you. See? He's there to take the fuckin'. The other guy is always gonna have that fucker, so you need a guy to deflect said fuckin. Lotta fuckin going on in this thread.

Also, as a teacher, it's sad that a bunch of other teachers don't join the teacher union but they reap the rewards of it. It's weird. Unions own and my dad almost died on the job and the union got him a lawyer because the company violated some serious poo poo. If there was no union it would be like those guys in India who get AUTHENTIC surgical masks when they romp around in ship skeletons made of pure asbestos.

vandalism fucked around with this message at Jun 14, 2018 around 01:46

Breakfast Feud
Feb 7, 2007


Fun Shoe

more like you're not a bootlicker so you go to the idiot fucker and you're like "hey im this close to gettin' hosed" and he's like "well, I'll fuckin look into this fershur" and he never speaks to you again and just nods solemnly at the meeting where you get totally hosed

No. 6
Jun 30, 2002



Fallen Rib

Easy, OP

Split Pea Superman
Dec 16, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 4 days!


Fun Shoe

If your place of work is divided against itself it's gonna fail.

belt
May 12, 2001



Unions* are pretty cool and good and workers should be doing everything they can do to protect them from the fucks they work for.

*Except the Police Union, they are evil fucks that defend killers.

vandalism
Aug 4, 2003

sometimes... you just gotta break stuff.

Breakfast Feud posted:

more like you're not a bootlicker so you go to the idiot fucker and you're like "hey im this close to gettin' hosed" and he's like "well, I'll fuckin look into this fershur" and he never speaks to you again and just nods solemnly at the meeting where you get totally hosed

Sorry your union experience was bad mang but they're not all bad. Sometimes they are good and help nibbas out. Good union > bad union >>>>>>>>>>>>>> no union/right to work.

Cubone
May 26, 2011

Because it never leaves its bedroom, no one has ever seen this poster's real face.

Yams Fan

uh
it sounds like you're trying to join a union for a trade you're not trained or employed in?
that's not what unions are

they don't get you a job, they protect and negotiate the legal rights of workers, and provide collective bargaining, and sometimes pensions for the workers in a trade

you might be looking for training, trade school, or an apprenticeship?

Breakfast Feud
Feb 7, 2007


Fun Shoe

I strongly disagree. I've seen the working class paradise of New Zealand operate fine without unions. Here in Canada the Unions are absolute utter garbage. I've heard from healthcare, sprinkler, bus-builders and electricians and they all contribute to lovely-rear end workplaces through absolute garbage regulations.

The electrical union is buttfucking someone in the permit and planning department here because they're muscling in to work they have no business doing. Can't wait for 5 years from now when you can't run a phone, internet or data cable without a permit two apprentices and a journeyman at a cost of approximately $350/hour.

Iron Croissant 64
Jun 2, 2018


Breakfast Feud posted:

In theory yes. In practice the Union doesn't work that way at all. They will totally fight tooth and nail to shelter anyone who's in their good books ie: politicking rear end-kissers and let everyone else hang out to dry. For whatever reason the sentiment in a Union is IF MANAGEMENT IS DOING IT THEN IT MUST BE BAD. Not that I want to defend management.

Everywhere with a Union is a loving toxic garbage work environment.

The traditional way to deal with this in unions is brutal violence. Have you considered killing these people or maybe threatening their families?

Cantaloupe
Apr 18, 2009

I'll be the rollinbout


Fun Shoe

Cubone posted:

uh
it sounds like you're trying to join a union for a trade you're not trained or employed in?
that's not what unions are

they don't get you a job, they protect and negotiate the legal rights of workers, and provide collective bargaining, and sometimes pensions for the workers in a trade

you might be looking for training, trade school, or an apprenticeship?

Yeah, an apprenticeship. I don't know how it works other places but around here it looks like there are all done through the union.

Breakfast Feud
Feb 7, 2007


Fun Shoe

gently caress I never even considered a back to basics sort of counter-union

belt
May 12, 2001



Breakfast Feud posted:

I strongly disagree. I've seen the working class paradise of New Zealand operate fine without unions.


New Zealand doesnít have worker unions? Gee, I wonder what Google is going to say about that.

Cantaloupe
Apr 18, 2009

I'll be the rollinbout


Fun Shoe

I phrased it poorly in the OP so let me try again: how hard is it to get an apprenticeship in a field that I apparently have all the basic skills for but no experience?

vandalism
Aug 4, 2003

sometimes... you just gotta break stuff.

Cantaloupe posted:

I phrased it poorly in the OP so let me try again: how hard is it to get an apprenticeship in a field that I apparently have all the basic skills for but no experience?

Go for it, dude. Trades are important. We need more people entering the trades. Get on the job and take this bet: most of the dudes around there will be like old. You will probably be like drat these dudes are old. It's because young people don't get involved in trades. Labor may be different, but the average age of an electrician? Like 50 or some poo poo. Can you imagine? Old guys doing all that badass work because young dudes are too busy going to college or playing fortnite. Go for it! Be a cool person contributing a good thing to society.

Inept
Jul 8, 2003

What?

vandalism posted:

help nibbas out.

the gently caress is this

berth ell pup
Mar 20, 2017

HERE'S THE AV YOU ASKED FOR

union workers are typically very very lazy and overpaid which drives up costs and hassles for everyone and makes people anti-union, so they close the plant and move it to the non-union south/out of the country altogether.

this kills the union. and that's good.

op you can try to get into an apprenticeship program if you want, it's probably good work if you can get it, but a lot of times it's not really steady work and you'll probably have to drive all over the place to the jobsite (like, hours per day.) do you own the tools you'll need for this job (likely several thousand dollars' worth, or more?). Do you have a truck? You'll need one to bring your gangbox to the job too, unless you like getting your poo poo stolen.

are you a computer toucher? because if so just forget it now there's no way in hell you'll be able to hang with blue collar dudes.

Ein cooler Typ
Nov 26, 2013

Carthago delenda est

I'm forming a posters union to stand up against the mods

if you're interested, meet me at the docks at midnight

Honky Dong Country
Feb 11, 2015

Unnnnngh


Slippery Tilde

I'm a nuclear contractor and deal a lot with in-house personnel who are IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) members. My brother is one of those guys. He's an in-house mechanic and a member of the union. From what I gather all it takes is getting a job there and deciding to join the union and pay your dues. But as far as I know you're not gonna be able to join the union without landing an eligible position first. I could be hilariously wrong here though since I'm not a union member myself. There's a few goons around here in GBS though that are actual IBEW members that will prolly show up ITT at some point that can give you better information. I could name a name but I'd rather just let them show up on their own if they want. If you're legit interested send me a PM and I'll hit up those guys myself first and see if they're cool with talking to you. I just don't want to be a dick toward them.

To be clear, I'm not a huge fan of unions and don't want to join one myself, but I'm also not willing to trash talk them or discourage people from joining a union if they feel that's what's best for them.

berth ell pup
Mar 20, 2017

HERE'S THE AV YOU ASKED FOR

Also whatever nebulous field this is in it's not going to be easy work and it's not going to be pleasant work. I'm just assume you're a fat nerd because SA but assuming you actually get a job and join the union, you'll be the official bitchboy and will be the one lugging poo poo off trucks and up to the more senior workers, in frigid cold and burning heat as the seasons dictate. This will probably go on for anywhere from months to years until you prove you're not a punk. It's kinda like kitchen work in that way. OK with heights? You might be 70 feet in the air on a knuckleboom one day and then then crawling through a trench of fetid water the next. Also can you throw things and catch them worth a gently caress? Everyone in every trade is constantly throwing things to each other and if you gently caress up you'll never live it down. Got good upper body strength too? Generally relatively in shape? Good with walking down miles of plant floor every day?

Blue collar work loving sucks and I never would have gotten into my (non-union) job, if I could go back. But they pay me a lot in a place with a very low cost of living and a very low standard for quality work, so I get by.

berth ell pup fucked around with this message at Jun 14, 2018 around 02:33

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


GBS is so retarded. Unions own

Cantaloupe
Apr 18, 2009

I'll be the rollinbout


Fun Shoe

berth ell pup posted:

Also whatever nebulous field this is in it's not going to be easy work and it's not going to be pleasant work. I'm just assume you're a fat nerd because SA but assuming you actually get a job and join the union, you'll be the official bitchboy and will be the one lugging poo poo off trucks and up to the more senior workers, in frigid cold and burning heat as the seasons dictate. This will probably go on for anywhere from months to years until you prove you're not a punk. It's kinda like kitchen work in that way. OK with heights? You might be 70 feet in the air on a knuckleboom one day and then then crawling through a trench of fetid water the next. Also can you throw things and catch them worth a gently caress? Everyone in every trade is constantly throwing things to each other and if you gently caress up you'll never live it down. Got good upper body strength too? Generally relatively in shape? Good with walking down miles of plant floor every day?

Blue collar work loving sucks and I never would have gotten into my (non-union) job, if I could go back. But they pay me a lot in a place with a very low cost of living and a very low standard for quality work, so I get by.

I'm good on all of these things except for catching and throwing, I'll work on that.

belt
May 12, 2001



berth ell pup posted:

union workers are typically very very lazy and overpaid which drives up costs and hassles for everyone and makes people anti-union, so they close the plant and move it to the non-union south/out of the country altogether.

this kills the union. and that's good.

This is one of the stupidest opinions Iíve ever read and this poster is either a rich business owner or a loving idiot.

Spagghentleman
Jan 1, 2013


In Canada there are over saturated trades, but it seems kind of taboo because everyone is all ďretiring workforce hurr, trades demand durrĒ.
I know sooo many apprentice electricians out of work itís not funny. It also doesnít pay as well as you think unless you are willing to go travel wherever and live in remote camps and poo poo.

ClamdestineBoyster
Aug 15, 2015



I always talk to those union guys about how they can make more work and more problems for people and make less money, but they always seem to be talking about ways to put in less effort, get more done, and make more money. So Iím always like yeah I donít think we see eye to eye on this poo poo I think people need to suffer for money and that no inherent value can ever come out of lack of suffering or lack of confusion, ignorance, and despair. I think we should whittle down channels of communication between workers and management to add an element of risk and danger to the day to day workplace. But those guys usually arenít having it. They want safety, communication, high pay, low effort jobs for everyone through organization and communication and I gotta tell you, those non blood and sweat dollars just donít feel as good going in yer pocket.

Ein cooler Typ
Nov 26, 2013

Carthago delenda est

Unions are the reason our children are wasting their lives watching youtube instead of contributing to society by working in factories 12 hours a day

Honky Dong Country
Feb 11, 2015

Unnnnngh


Slippery Tilde

belt posted:

This is one of the stupidest opinions Iíve ever read and this poster is either a rich business owner or a loving idiot.

It's not anywhere approaching a majority but I do know a couple union dudes that are complete lazy turds that even their brothers hate. Which makes them such a minority as to not even be considered when forming an opinion on unions. I guess what I'm saying is that dude is prolly projecting the behavior of one lovely union member onto the whole organization which is wrong.

GORDON
Jan 1, 2006

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

Spagghentleman posted:

In Canada there are over saturated trades, but it seems kind of taboo because everyone is all ďretiring workforce hurr, trades demand durrĒ.
I know sooo many apprentice electricians out of work itís not funny. It also doesnít pay as well as you think unless you are willing to go travel wherever and live in remote camps and poo poo.

"Go west, young man."

The money has always been where the glut of workers isn't.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014



vandalism posted:

Also, as a teacher, it's sad that a bunch of other teachers don't join the teacher union but they reap the rewards of it. It's weird.

I have a question on teacher unions because I'm getting my certification and starting teaching.

Why would a union turn down a group of folks in a school system? The city I'm in has the teachers union, but aides are not allowed in it. So they get treated like literal poo poo. My aide is an awesome 24 year old lady who loves the kids and is great. But she gets lovely hours/pay/no benefits. Even though she's there with me doing everything.

berth ell pup
Mar 20, 2017

HERE'S THE AV YOU ASKED FOR

The nice thing about unions if you're in one is that you really don't have to work very hard for most of the day because a lot of it is spent waiting on people from the other unions to show up and do something trivial you're not allowed to touch, like move a pallet or a piece of furniture or something.

Spagghentleman posted:

In Canada there are over saturated trades, but it seems kind of taboo because everyone is all “retiring workforce hurr, trades demand durr”.
I know sooo many apprentice electricians out of work it’s not funny. It also doesn’t pay as well as you think unless you are willing to go travel wherever and live in remote camps and poo poo.

also yes, there's some sort of weird notion people must have gotten a decade or two ago about how we need people in traaaaadessss!!! $50/hr for a starting electrician's apprenctice! sounds great until you realize you have to go to some oilfield 500 miles from nowhere in north dakota and pay new york prices to rent a room in a ranch house in the land that god truly did forget.

belt
May 12, 2001



berth ell pup posted:

The nice thing about unions if you're in one is that you really don't have to work very hard for most of the day because a lot of it is spent waiting on people from the other unions to show up and do something trivial you're not allowed to touch, like move a pallet or a piece of furniture or something.


Yeah, Iíve confirmed that this person is a loving idiot.

RollsRoyce
Feb 11, 2018


I was a Teamster. Nobody lifted a finger for a job that wasn't expressly in the contract as theirs and so help you if a manager jumps in to help alleviate a backlog of work for five minutes to let someone go take a piss break, they'll be in the office filing a stack of grievances so tall it blocks out the sun.

Yandat
Sep 15, 2017



RollsRoyce posted:

I was a Teamster. Nobody lifted a finger for a job that wasn't expressly in the contract as theirs and so help you if a manager jumps in to help alleviate a backlog of work for five minutes to let someone go take a piss break, they'll be in the office filing a stack of grievances so tall it blocks out the sun.

good

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

belt
May 12, 2001



RollsRoyce posted:

I was a Teamster. Nobody lifted a finger for a job that wasn't expressly in the contract as theirs and so help you if a manager jumps in to help alleviate a backlog of work for five minutes to let someone go take a piss break, they'll be in the office filing a stack of grievances so tall it blocks out the sun.

This is what unions protect against you dickhead. Workers having their fair breaks and not having their work stolen by management. God forbid a worker stand up for their rights against rear end in a top hat America.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«8 »