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Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

Look Sir Droids posted:

So basically people that are good at parrying are going to have an easier time than people who rely on roll spamming.

:ohdear:

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Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

Been going through this game , and I'll have a bunch of thoughts (mostly good) to type out once I've fought all the bosses at least once. Did the Immortal Severance route in standard NG, and almost to the unique bosses of the Shura route on NG+, no charm and bell rung. I believe that should just leave the Hirata secret boss for NG++. There's a low chance I'll go for the platinum, but more likely I'll move on after having cleared every boss.

I read the first half of this thread skipping most spoilers and then skipped to the end, so I don't know if this was mentioned regarding fighting Snake Eyes in the Depths already. While not alerting the others in the area does make the fight easier and gets you the first life bar for free, my preferred way of doing this fight makes it a little harder (no free stealth kill) but is also IMO much more entertaining. Friendly fire is a thing. Specifically, the one with the big cannon in the middle island is fully capable of blasting Snake Eyes, which knocks Snake Eyes down and lets you get a bunch of free hits every time it happens. More importantly, it's immensely satisfying to see Snake Eyes blasted time after time flat on their rear, bonus points if they're forced to keep taking a poison bath. The safest way is to start at the idol at the top of the area, stealth kill the one near the bottom of the cliff, crouch and wait a few moments (Snake Eyes won't be full alert yet), grapple over to the middle island, quickly stealth kill the one w/ the cannon and use puppeteer ninjutsu. By this time, Snake Eyes should be slowly wading through the poison just in time to get repeatedly blasted in the face until the puppet dies. Alternate, man-mode way of doing this: Just go to the middle island after the first stealth kill, alert cannon and Snake Eyes, and then be really precise with your movements so you keep Snake Eyes between you and the cannon.

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

bike tory posted:

The environments in this game are the best looking in a From game since DS2. And in DS2 that's pretty much the only thing it has going for it.

Bloodborne had some great design but the colours were so muted you could switch the game to greyscale and not notice much difference. Same with DS3.

Bloodborne's areas in general don't pop w/ color, no. But it is going for a darker atmosphere, and I'd argue selective color usage makes the important places/objects w/ intense color stand out much more effectively and have a bigger impact. The designs in general are really detailed and fantastical, but still grounded and realistic enough that I could completely accept them as actual places I was exploring and other characters inhabited, rather than just cool game areas. The overall atmosphere is so good that it's still no question the best of the series in that respect to me.

Sekiro does have some strong environments, Hirata Estates easily being my favorite due to it feeling closest to Bloodborne's atmosphere (the music really helps in this regard) and being believable, and I was disappointed only this one side area went in that direction (honorable mention to Mibu Village, it was just missing something). Senpou is second, mainly due to being really pretty and believable, with Fountainhead Palace a close third. Though, with it I feel similar to how I feel about Anor Londo. You arrive at both areas and the overall view looking down is absolutely breathtaking, but once you actually get down into the areas, the view and atmosphere goes from amazing to "just" pretty good. Then I feel like there's a noticeable drop in quality in the rest of the areas. Not to the point any are outright bad, but they either weren't memorable or worse looked generic and samey (I'm looking at you, Ashina Castle exterior areas... great design from a movement and combat perspective, but I constantly got lost even on the roofs because everything looked so similar).

Anyway, finished the NG+ bell/no-charm Shura bosses last night, which means the only remaining one I haven't fought yet should be Owl 2.0 for NG++. I'll be stopping after that, most likely.

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

Bananasaurus Rex posted:

I think its a probably problems with the queing system. Especially when running. Or maybe you're just not able to do certain actions until you come to a stop, other than attack. I could have sworn that there have been times where i have paused the game to use an item and sekiro just staright up didnt do anything when the game unpaused. Or maybe im just imagining things.

Yeah, the buffer system sometimes dropping inputs is one of my few big issues w/ the game. It can consistently happen when leaving a running state like you mentioned. When you leave the running state (letting go of the run button while running does this, or doing a very sharp turn while running will also cause it) you'll notice the game puts you in this sliding state that lasts for about a half-second or so, and when that happens it consistently ignores any inputs until you leave the sliding state, even pausing! So if you want to do anything when coming out of a run, you either have to buffer the action before the slide state starts or you have to wait until it ends.

So, it should be easy enough to plan around this and not do something that would end the run state when an enemy is attacking, right? Not-so-secret boss, camera: "I'm about to ruin this person's entire lifebar". Yeah, if the camera decides to suddenly shift positions while you're running straight, that will force you into a sharp turn and thus no inputs. This can happen in any of the usual closed quarter places, of course, but it also can happen consistently in the ape 2.0 fight nowhere near a wall. If you're running near the headless ape's partner and it decides to do that one attack where it dodges quickly to the side and does a fast swipe at you, you are guaranteed to get hit because the camera shift basically forces you into a sharp turn and thus you can't block the swipe.

I've also noticed the input drops sometimes after a dodge or blocking, but those seem rare and I haven't seen a consistent pattern to predict them.

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

It's also possible to miss the deathblow because of (rare) strange hurtboxes. For example, if you get the marker on ape 2.0's partner but you're facing it's side rather than it's front, you'll probably miss the deathblow. Not because of any input problem, as you can see Sekiro doing the pre-deathblow animation where it kind of looks like he's trying to grab them, but it just won't connect w/ ape 2.0's partner's hurtbox if you're on its side. That very nearly got me killed by ape 2.0 this last run since I got distracted trying to figure out why the deathblow wasn't starting and had to run around to its front before the deathblow would connect.

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

Dewgy posted:

Yyyyyyup. This is cycle 8 I think. And for some reason I’ve only done Shura one time. :v:

The difficulty stops getting harder after NG+7, right? After that, it'd be cool if the game let you keep your character but reset the cycle to NG, just for a victory lap where you might as well be the Shura slicing through everybody like butter.

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

I think I've gotten what I wanted out of this game after beating the last boss I hadn't done yet, Owl 2.0 in NG++/bell/no charm. It doesn't top Bloodborne for me overall, but I like Sekiro a LOT more than when I first started, and look forward to the inevitable DLC.

Here's a few videos of my favorite boss fights, along w/ a mildly amusing clip of a ministry shinobi deciding to play Soulkiro Calibur.

- Shura ending bosses
- Owl 2.0
- Ringout!

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

skasion posted:

Emma’s grab has to be the most irritating move to avoid in this game.

Like if your positioning was right to start with, you can just walk around it no sweat. If not then dodging, jumping, sprinting away are all useless.

Avoiding her grab is mostly a matter of reacting in time, and usually you can predict when she might do it, which makes reacting much easier. Dodging is almost definitely going to get you grabbed. You can sometimes get away by jumping backwards (my vid of that fight from some pages ago has me doing just that), but you need some luck to get the circumstances where it can work... or in the case of the next fight, you can setup a scenario where you can always jump over the grab. Sprinting straight backwards will always avoid the grab, assuming you start running in time, and the closer you are to her the earlier you need to start running. But that's easily the most consistent way to avoid it I found, and she takes so long to recover that you can get free hits after.

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

To be fair, neutral dodge is always backwards in every Bloodsouls game, but From changed it up for Sekiro.

And don't completely forget about dodging. There are a few bosses where it's a very viable strategy.

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

I remember Gael being very hard, but he never made me question if I was good enough to beat him, unlike Orphan and Isshin.

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

Ciaphas posted:

I don't understand or remember what this game expects of me in terms of offense. I've seen here and remember 'if you're not deflecting you should be attacking' as much of the advice, but i find that that tends to get me walloped by random-seeming super armor, even on basic mooks. (Or we attack at the same time and I lose.)

That advice is correct, but should come with a note saying this strategy is way more effective after you observe/understand what the enemy can do when, and it can be difficult to do that when you're trying to be active. One of the things that took me a while to get used to is the "speed" of Sekiro's basic attack, because for a ninja you'd think he could swing a little faster. When you find your attacks getting interrupted or losing to armor but you still want to attack, an alternative to deflecting everything is to make sure the enemy is not attacking or about to attack when you attack. Be passive-aggressive and try to bait an attack/attack sequence out, and after you either defend or stay out of range of it, take the moment where they can't attack to start your attack. Bait either by moving in and out of the enemies' attack range or by attack-cancelling (attack and immediately guard before the swing comes out). Once you get them to block something, you're in the desirable attack/attack/see deflect spark/deflect or evade/repeat pattern.

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

Looking at the life bars, Owl vs ISS phase 1 is actually pretty close. This person also did a runback where Owl could use his spirit owl, and it was definitely closer vs ISS phase 2. You can tell the AI doesn't know how to handle certain things when other AI is doing it, as neither properly counters the others perilous attacks and neither deal well w/ the armored attacks.

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

Even for Sekiro's system, there's definitely room for improvement. Like, have perfect parries (i.e. not holding guard after the parry attempt) that connect do more posture damage. Or how about letting you control the direction of the stagger for a parried opponent? You could better handle groups if the staggered opponent could crash into other enemies and knock them off-balance as well.

Also, improve Sekiro's perilous attack options. Like, his basic thrust attack might as well not exist outside of occasionally whiff-punishing some of the really big guys (and humiliating you for trying it against Owl), and it'd be really nice if he could learn a sweep and a grab as well. I don't care if they have to be balanced by costing lots of spirit emblems.

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

Despite the game really hinting you should have snap seeds for Lady Butterfly, it's definitely not necessary. They do help skip parts of her second phase, but it's just a convenience. And actually getting more snap seeds at your point is more trouble than doing the fight without them.

Also, these are two bosses that you should help you figure out what kind of approach this game really wants. If these fights keep giving you trouble and you still feel you're not learning anything, that's probably a sign to try a different approach.

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

Enemies don't randomly get armored attacks, it's just a thing that certain enemies have on certain attacks. One thing you can do to lessen the chance of getting destroyed by an unexpected armored move is do a single attack, then delay your next attack until you've visually confirmed the enemy is in hit-stun. If it looks like they didn't flinch from your hit, stop attacking and defend yourself. While it won't work against every armored attack (some are too fast), many of them are slow enough that you'll have time to safely react, and it worked well for me against certain bosses.

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

1. Bloodborne
.
.
.
2. Demon's Souls
3. Sekiro
4. Dark Souls
.
.
.
5. Dark Souls 2
6. Dark Souls 3

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Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly

Micolash is easily the best of those three because there's actually a proper fight where you get to smack Micolash around for wasting your time, plus he makes funny speeches and noises to keep you entertained during the chase. The monkeys are real annoying until you figure out the "fight", and then just tedious if you make a mistake during it. The level does at least have a cool atmosphere. Bed of Chaos is just awful in every aspect.

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