No, Mr. Bond, I Expect You To Read - Let's Read James Bond

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > No, Mr. Bond, I Expect You To Read - Let's Read James Bond

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Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Sperglord Actual posted:

Considering the name's meaning, I suspect he might well have chosen to keep it anyway.

Yeah, it's an awesome name for a villainous organization. And it's not as if Fleming was going for technothriller accuracy.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2018 20:28

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 17:40

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

chitoryu12 posted:

Ah, here we go. The origin of the vodka martini, shaken not stirred.

This is a drink that technically no longer exists. Kina Lillet was one of a large number of quinquinas, aromatized wines whose flavoring included quinine. Quinine is a bitter extract from the cinchona tree bark that was historically used as a treatment for malaria, and its terribly bitter taste led to a lot of attempts to make it palatable for medication. The most famous is the gin and tonic (mixing quinine-infused tonic water with gin, creating a chemical reaction that neutralizes the bitterness), but quinine was also used to flavor wines. Just like the gin and tonic, what was once a way of making the medicine go down ended up becoming extremely popular as a general flavoring.

Unfortunately, in the 1980s Kina Lillet was discontinued. The current product, Lillet Blanc, has no quinine in it. That being said, you can get close to Bond's original taste if you know what to do.

Minor spoiler: this drink is called the Vesper. It's believed to have been named by Ian Fleming after a visit to a friend in Jamaica where the butler served "vespers", a generic term for drinks served in the evening; the original drink was a fruity frozen rum beverage.

When I was at Dear Irving in Manhattan, I worked with the bartender to replicate the drink as closely as possible. There's a few specific requests that need to be made beyond shaking:

1. You need gin of 47% ABV before Gordon's was reformulated to a lower proof.

2. You need vodka of 50% ABV to match the proof of typical vodkas in the 1950s.

3. You need an alternative to Kina Lillet unless you have a perfectly preserved vintage bottle. I used Cocchi Americano, but you can also add quinine powder to Lillet Blanc.

The higher proofs of the alcohol are actually the reason for it being shaken. Bond has been mocked before in pop culture for watering down his martinis, but in fact the higher alcohol content of the 1950s liquor compensates for any additional dilution from shaking with ice. That being said, shaking a modern vodka martini made with lower proof vodka will make a rather weak drink.

I honestly really enjoyed this recreation, despite the bar not having sufficiently strong vodka. It tastes close to a gin martini, but the higher proofs and addition of vodka give it an extra alcoholic kick and the quinine-infused wine mixes in a sort of gin and tonic flavor. Just as Bond described (and as he is himself), it's very cold and very strong.

I've got a copy of this around somewhere, which claims Kina Lillet would be incredibly nasty in this combination so you should use Lillet vermouth instead, but IDK, maybe that was just Kingsley Amis' opinion. It also remarks that Bond's being obnoxious with the potato vodka crack, since that would be poteen/moonshine/not something any respectable barman would serve.

chitoryu12 posted:

I'll get more into the Bond actors later, but the film adaptation of Casino Royale was an intentional effort to make as close of an adaptation as possible.

As opposed to the 1967 Casino Royale film, which seems to have been an intentional effort not to. I'm hard-pressed to choose my favourite between them, though.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2018 19:55

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Shirec posted:

I assume it's at least not going to get up to HP Lovecraft levels of racism

Just wait till we get to Dr No�s �Chigroes�.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2018 09:24

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

chitoryu12 posted:

Yeah, those darn Voodoo folk who live across the entire East Coast........wait, what do you mean the entire black race doesn't practice Voodoo?

I raise you an extremely lovely pulp novel from the 70s with the plotline that Caribbean immigrants to London have set up voodoo temples in the London Underground and that's why so many of them work there.

It got republished in the Dennis Wheatley Library of the Occult series with an introduction calling it "terrifyingly plausible" - Wheatley was basically Fleming with added Terrible Warnings against Bleck Megic.

I'd like to think this trope was long dead, but I have a horrible feeling there are even more recent examples....

Wheat Loaf posted:

(Disclaimer: I don't like Yorkshire pudding so I've never had one. )

Yorkshire pudding is much better as a side in a roast dinner with gravy. Toad in the hole is a waste of 2 things that are more enjoyable separate.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2018 19:51

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Shirec posted:

Oh man I want to read more about the Harlem Renaissance and also the LGBT parts of those histories. These all sound incredibly fascinating.

Coincidentally, this greeted me on Twitter this morning:

https://twitter.com/anarcish/status/1028473084397797377?s=21

:swoon:

# ¿ Aug 13, 2018 17:22

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

chitoryu12 posted:

Far from evil, Baron Samedi (French for "Baron Saturday") is one of the coolest loa of Haitian Voodoo. Voodoo puts God, Bondye, as distant from the world and using the loa as intermediaries to interact with humanity. The Voodoo pantheon is somewhat similar to Ancient Greek and Roman pantheons, giving each loa its own personality, traits, likes and dislikes, and special rituals and methods of service. Loa are served in different ways, often offering sacrifices.

Loa are traditionally summoned in a ritual in which the loa "mounts a horse", possessing a person through a ritual which is different for each. The loa all have different signs of their possession, such as specific actions or phrases, upon which the others assisting in the ritual perform the appropriate tasks to welcome them. It can range from giving Erzulie Fr�da Dahomey (the spirit of love, beauty, jewelry, flowers, etc.) pink champagne and fine gifts of perfume and food to giving Agwe (the sovereign of the sea) wet sponges and towels as his vessel exits the water.

I really wish all of our religious rituals were this awesome.

There's also a fair bit of overlap with Catholic saints - various loa use the iconography of different saints. Syncretism is extra cool!

chitoryu12 posted:

In the film, Solitaire is played by a young Jane Seymour, who would become famous in the 90s as Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman. Her psychic powers are still intact in the film, with the addition of a caveat that they only work as long as she remains a virgin. Rather than lusting after her, Kananga does his best to keep her isolated to keep her powers from being wrecked. As you can expect, Bond does just that.

In the film she's also Kananga's daughter and granddaughter - they changed the "found her doing a mindreading act" to "line of hereditary priestesses" because who knows, I guess it seemed logical to someone who looked at Yaphet Kotto and Jane Seymour?

# ¿ Aug 13, 2018 23:06

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

SatansOnion posted:

I will grant you that 1967's Casino Royale is a truly godawful film. If you like ludicrous entertainment trainwrecks, though, it's sort of fascinating to watch it lurch from plot point to setpiece to setpiece to something else more or less entirely unrelated to everything previous and eventually just melt into soapsuds and fake fog and so much undercranking

It blows up Woody Allen* at the end; what's not to love?

_{*and everyone else who survived that long}

# ¿ Aug 14, 2018 07:24

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

chitoryu12 posted:

McThing

Now that's what I call a username!

# ¿ Aug 15, 2018 19:19

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

chitoryu12 posted:

Bond is still keeping up with his usual meal. Not sure why he's so dismissive of the menu when he was previously ordering perfectly fine chicken sandwiches and specifying which bourbon he wanted in his cocktail.

I've got a distinct suspicion it's because Solitaire wanted something he didn't and it's Not Manly to let women choose what to eat. Note that she doesn't get to choose either then or later in the diner; she eats what Bond orders.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2018 20:34

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Yond Cassius posted:

so mumble mumble mumble...

He's negging the food?

# ¿ Aug 21, 2018 22:17

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Sperglord Actual posted:

My inner cynic wonders if Fleming was trying to make some kind of point by messily killing off the partner who had a softer touch and could build a rapport with the henchmen.

THS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR LIKING JAZZ.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2018 19:44

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

chitoryu12 posted:

Things Fleming doesn't know about : Water is heavy.

And which Russian letter is which.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2018 21:05

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Trin Tragula posted:

Who's George Lazemby?

The only undead actor who's played Bond?

(Unless you count some of the later Roger Moore movies.)

# ¿ Sep 6, 2018 22:52

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Meaty Ore posted:

That looks more like Bingo than Solitaire.

Bingo Wings, the least successful Bond Girl of all time.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2018 21:13

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Did Walter call Krebs a shitlord?

Also come on Bond, get a loving clue!

# ¿ Nov 20, 2018 22:22

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Sperglord Actual posted:

TBH that's probably just Fleming being unable to write Germans as anything other than soulless fascistic automatons.

Maybe, but then again considering the amazing self-ownage modern neonazis are capable of....

# ¿ Dec 3, 2018 23:08

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

MonsterEnvy posted:

Well Spang saw through pretty much everything.

Also looking up images of Spang this is a pretty good one.

I like that Wint or Kidd is a cat in a mask.

(I take it one of them has a badly-fixed harelip but hell, leave me my happy dreams.)

# ¿ Feb 1, 2019 09:13

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

MonsterEnvy posted:

Man this group did not even try and capture Spang. Though I am more shocked that Spang did not even try to bail on the Helicopter with a parachute.

It was spinning; good luck with that even if you are wearing a parachute at the time.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2019 08:24

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

I appreciate the update on Tiffany Case - it's a nice difference from the movie, that you learn that the relationship didn't last because fighting etc rather than hot chick is never seen or spoken of after the end of the movie she''s in.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2019 23:52

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

chitoryu12 posted:

Is there a trope for when you have a native of the area do all the insulting for the white guy

Tokenisation. "See, this member of x group agrees with me about how lovely x group is!"

As for the rest

WHAT

THE

gently caress

# ¿ Mar 11, 2019 17:06

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Fish of hemp posted:

So Red Grant is the dark mirror of James Bond the psycho killer and Kerim is dark mirror of James Bond the womanizer, then who is going to be the dark mirror of James Bond the fashionista?

Rosa Klebb in her sexy nylon nightie?

# ¿ Mar 11, 2019 21:19

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

On the other hand

Fleming posted:

men�s clothing, which I regard as out-of-date, unhygienic and rather ridiculous

Please tell me he wasn't envisaging utilikilts!

Otherwise yeah, I'd vote for him.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2019 15:33

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

British Intelligence hur hur hur.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2019 19:18

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

I like M grumping about these soft modern soyboys in the 50s. Some things never change...

# ¿ Apr 10, 2019 20:41

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

chitoryu12 posted:

He was very much into electric cars to reduce pollution.

From what I've heard anyone living in London pre-the Clean Air Act would have had Opinions on that, and I suspect he'd've preferred reducing pollution that way rather than with legislation.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2019 21:21

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

The_White_Crane posted:

That's super cool!
Goddamn but this thread is some good poo poo.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2019 10:27

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Somebody Awful posted:

There sure was, even among people who held other views that would be progressive today. In 1910, Jack London (of The Call of the Wild fame) wrote a story in which the western powers use germ warfare to exterminate the entire population of China and settle it with whites... and then solemnly agree never to use such methods against each other.

Yeah, Jack London's opinions of black people were loving horrifying too.

A lot of old pulp is surprisingly sexually liberal for the time, which is a weird combination with the amount of racist AF poo poo in them. One of Sax Rohmer's heroines has a Terrible Secret which is revealed at the end to be an illegitimate son but happy ending the hero couldn't care less, Dennis Wheatley has a hero who's perfectly happy being cuckolded by his hotwife for two I can think of offhand.

I've got a bad case of deja vu ATM: I'm reading a collection of Seabury Quinn's Jules de Grandin stories from Weird Tales in the 20s-30s. And the 3rd one, The Isle of Missing Ships from 1926, has hero and sidekick investigate ships going missing out in the Pacific, and end up on an island where the villain greets them politely, has them taken to his massive underground lair (though his has marble floors and a shitload of secret doors), given a shave and a massage and nice clean clothes and treated to dinner and monologuing in a room with a whacking great window looking out on the ocean floor. And on top of that the villain's backstory is that his dad was a missionary who knocked up a local girl (Malayan in this case, and 15 years old let's back the gently caress away from that and the no-kidding "they mature earlier here!" line...).

It's amazing and awful and getting more and more both; there's a gang of Papuan cannibals who eat the other surviving passengers, the heroes get fed long pig for supper and only one of them realises

quote:

"May I offer you a bit more of this white meat, Dr. Trowbridge?" he asked courteously. "Really, we find this white meat" (the words were ever so slightly emphasized) "most delicious. So tender and well flavored, you know. Do you like it?"

AAAAA OH MY GOD COME THE gently caress ON, and now he's explained why he's kept them alive; he's planning his harem and he wants a couple of white eunuchs for it, and since they're both doctors they can operate on each other. Or they can get thrown to the GIANT loving OCTOPUS that he has in his Bond villain lair.

Oh, and the inevitable damsel in distress is a nice Jewish girl who's being forced to learn ~sexy native dances~. And have her nose pierced.

It's a hilarious amount of WTF.

(Online at https://archive.org/details/WeirdTalesV07N02192602/page/n29 if anyone wants to subject themselves to it.)

# ¿ May 3, 2019 21:24

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Somebody Awful posted:

Really the best things about the old pulps were their covers. Weasels ripping flesh and all that.

Farnsworth Wright - the then editor of Weird Tales - believed that it sold better with a naked or very underdressed woman on the cover, so Quinn made a habit of writing at least one scene per story involving a woman wearing not much and doing something sexy - dancing or being menaced or feeling up a giant vampire snake.

Know your audience I guess.

# ¿ May 4, 2019 10:19

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

GIANT SQUID FIGHT

# ¿ May 7, 2019 19:52

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

chitoryu12 posted:

The biggest problem I know of is homophobia. It treats a character as only becoming a lesbian due to trauma.

Not to mention that it reckons the forcible application of dick is a cure for lesbianism.

# ¿ May 13, 2019 20:24

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

chitoryu12 posted:

It's very difficult to figure out exactly how much of the homophobia and misogyny in this actually comes from Fleming, which is one of the most confounding parts of reading these books. Bond and others are often used as a way for Fleming to express his own views on life and the world, but Fleming also outright stated in letters and interviews that he intentionally wrote Bond as a crappy person.

In a letter exchange with a doctor criticizing the book later, Fleming said that he viewed Pussy Galore's lesbianism as a "psycho-pathological malady."

For all that Bond's muttering darkly about "unhappy sexual misfits" Fleming doesn't seem to have written Tilly as unhappy about or frustrated by her sexual preference - she's grumpy because she's pissed at Bond for getting them into this situation and probably for his tedious loving innuendos too, but I don't see any hint that she wouldn't have been perfectly happy if she'd managed to shoot Goldfinger, get away and go back to her life of target-shooting, ice-skating and falling for hot women.

Still a :fuckoff:

for his and Bond's expressed opinion, though.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2019 20:52

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

chitoryu12 posted:

Tilly is yet another Bond Girl that I would rather follow as the protagonist.

Her, Pussy and the Cement Mixers.

There's got to be awesome lesbian heist fiction out there somewhere already....

# ¿ Jun 6, 2019 22:18

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Midjack posted:

You can only get two of the three, from what I�ve seen.

Maybe I should drop hints at KJ Charles. She's just done a terrific lesbian country-house Edwardian murder, maybe she'd be up for a 50s heist....

# ¿ Jun 7, 2019 06:58

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

MonsterEnvy posted:

I read that in the most british voice ever.

Yes, that was Noel Coward's voice.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2019 22:37

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Ian Fleming posted:

It was not that the town had sold its body. Many towns have done that. It was its heart that was gone � pawned to the tourists, pawned to the Russians and Roumanians and Bulgars, pawned to the scum of the world who had gradually taken the town over. And, of course, pawned to the Germans. You could see it in the people�s eyes � sullen, envious, ashamed.

Oh god he'd be bitching about Londonistan if he lived now wouldn't he.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2019 21:03

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

chitoryu12 posted:

It's seeming like the only real difference is that Archer is just more humorous and exaggerated. Sterling Archer is bizarre to the point of possibly being autistic and utterly lacking in social graces whereas Bond is a proper English gentleman, but they share the same basic traits of "Alcoholic who's not really good at anything but violence and gets bailed out by other people."

I'm not so sure there's a lot of difference - you can get away with a hell of a lot of bizarre behaviour in posh society if you wear the right suits and went to the right schools. Case in point: the Tory party right now.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2019 08:12

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

sebmojo posted:

Worst secret agent.

Kristatos isn't exactly covering himself in glory either.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2019 16:04

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

It's the logo of British Rail, the most feared tong of all.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2019 18:59

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 17:40

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

quote:

With a final thorough exhalation through the nostrils he turned to greet Bond with an Ah! Bisto! expression on his healthily flushed face.

That might need a bit of explanation too - I don't know if Bisto ever made it to the States. It's a brand of gravy powder, and for about 8 decades it advertised itself with the slogan "Ah! Bisto!" and the Bisto Kids with their permanently ecstatic expressions:

So that's how blissful you should imagine Mr Joshua Wain looking at the thought of sending the new improved detoxified Bond back out into the world.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2019 21:03

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > No, Mr. Bond, I Expect You To Read - Let's Read James Bond

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