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site posted:Making her Kree name a derivative of both Superman and mar-vell was pretty groan worthy the 30 Rock episode where Liz finds the perfect man but it turns out they're distant cousins, but it's car-ell and mar-vell
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Feb 15, 2021 10:20
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Protagorean posted:making DC use Shazam or Captain Thunder for Billy Batson was bad enough, making Carol's secret space name Car-Ell is just trolling at this point. anyways her always being half alien supersoldier is the kind of "Tony was adopted" deep retcon you can miss me with, especially if you're not even going to do it in a way that helps line it up with your more popular property Carol being Half-Kree is just the smarter move. Connecting her (even indirectly) to the Kree Empire gives her more of a reason for why she is always interacting/opposing the Kree. And it’s a better origin than a problematic “I got caught up in a wishing machine and my deepest wish was to be a secret alien.”
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Feb 15, 2021 12:42
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Protagorean posted:making DC use Shazam or Captain Thunder for Billy Batson was bad enough... I don't know, given that DC used pretty spurious lawsuits to try and shut down Fawcett Comics and stop them publishing Captain Marvel, there's a certain poetic justice in them having to deal with the same nonsense once they acquired him for themselves.
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Feb 15, 2021 12:59
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Yeah that's up there with the Medieval Spawn lawsuit in being one of the greatest own goals in comics legal history.
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Feb 15, 2021 13:06
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The one thing I don't love about the new origin is how hard it tries to excuse Carol's abusive dad. Not retconning him to be not abusive, just making excuses for why he was.
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Feb 15, 2021 13:11
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Lurdiak posted:Every time I think of Bendis and Carol I think of this panel. I’ll take “Writers who do not understand Doom AT ALL”. for $500, Alex. Re-reading his run now, I kinda can’t believe they handed him the keys to the kingdom for almost a decade.
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Feb 15, 2021 13:23
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Someone should chronologically read every Bendis book, and see if they can chart what books had his attention in a given month. Put that next to a panel from Infamous Iron Man, and you’ll get whiplash.
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Feb 15, 2021 13:42
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Open Marriage Night posted:Someone should chronologically read every Bendis book, and see if they can chart what books had his attention in a given month. I mean, Carol is in her Ms Marvel outfit, there could be upwards of a decade between that panel and Infamous Iron-Man. I don't remember when Bendis had his first kid but I imagine having a daughter probably influenced his writing a great deal. Air Skwirl fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 14:00
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Thats from the second arc of Mighty Avengers if that helps narrow it down.
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Feb 15, 2021 14:06
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Rhyno posted:Thats from the second arc of Mighty Avengers if that helps narrow it down. So yeah, 2007ish to 2016. Almost a full decade.
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Feb 15, 2021 14:13
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I remember that particular interaction got a lot of flack even then. I think Bendis addressed it in some way but I can't remember what his response was. It obviously wasn't the last time he leant his voice to Doom and he did improve, but yeah, that felt like an insecure gang-banger took over Doom's brain for a while.
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Feb 15, 2021 14:28
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Nilbop posted:I remember that particular interaction got a lot of flack even then. I think Bendis addressed it in some way but I can't remember what his response was. the doombot Victor programmed from internet message board deep learning
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Feb 15, 2021 14:32
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I love the tint little pupils on Doom's eyes. Or the way that they are drawn that makes it look like there are tiny pupils.
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Feb 15, 2021 19:26
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Even a short time later with Dark Avengers he was writing a better Doom, IIRC.
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Feb 15, 2021 19:31
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The essence of Doom is that he's a gothic horror villain, like Dracula or Bluebeard or the Phantom of the Opera, transposed to a superhero setting. He's grandiose, malevolent, but his courtesy and his attention to the etiquettes of his gothic domain are key. Feels like maybe (definitely) Bendis didn't get that at the time.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:06
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Android Blues posted:The essence of Doom is that he's a gothic horror villain, like Dracula or Bluebeard or the Phantom of the Opera, transposed to a superhero setting. He's grandiose, malevolent, but his courtesy and his attention to the etiquettes of his gothic domain are key. Feels like maybe (definitely) Bendis didn't get that at the time. Even in John Francis Moore's Doom 2099 series, he had a villain comment on how Doom's mannerisms seemed Victorian, even in his original time frame, and were doubly so in the Cyberpunkish year of 2099!
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Feb 15, 2021 21:26
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Bendis has a real problem with tone outside of a very specific modern midde-American mindset. He did it a lot in the cosmic stuff in his Superman run. You'd have the Elders on Oa and the ambassadors from Rann and Thanagar talking like they were at a PTA meeting in Portland. And no, not just in a comedic 'oh, they're being casual and petty' but literally having these aliens say they're late for their nephew's bar-mitzvah and such. It just completely erodes any sense of both drama or setting.
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Feb 15, 2021 22:20
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Gaz-L posted:Bendis has a real problem with tone outside of a very specific modern midde-American mindset. He did it a lot in the cosmic stuff in his Superman run. You'd have the Elders on Oa and the ambassadors from Rann and Thanagar talking like they were at a PTA meeting in Portland. And no, not just in a comedic 'oh, they're being casual and petty' but literally having these aliens say they're late for their nephew's bar-mitzvah and such. It just completely erodes any sense of both drama or setting. This reminds me how I was reading Captain Marvel yesterday and it's in this arc where this Kree alien thing that's merged with a part of the old supreme intelligence called Vox Supreme is forcing Carol to beat up the other avengers, and at one point Tony is talking about him like, "the name Vox is literally latin for voice" and all I could think about is why the gently caress would some alien base his name off a dead human language
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Feb 15, 2021 22:27
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I feel like with the Kree at least there's been some weird Roy Thomas style explainers for this since the Celestials and some other cosmic beings were experimenting on 'primitive races' millions of years ago and were loving with humanity and the Kree simultaneously. It came up again recently in Empyre, but a bunch of Kree were taken to Earth's moon a million years ago for some sort of contest, and the Kree were dropping Sentries onto Earth tens of thousands of years ago to keep an eye on humanity/the Eternals/the Inhumans. It's all very silly but given the high percentage of Kree with corny names like Mar-Vell, Att-Las, Hav-Ak, Minn-Erva, I can totally see a subset of Kree that are like whatever you'd called the equivalent of otaku where "Hala" is America and "Earth" is Japan.
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Feb 15, 2021 22:43
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That's been one of the longest running criticisms of Bendis, he has one voice for men and one for women and that's it. You can randomize half the panels in New Avengers and nothing would seem amiss.
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Feb 15, 2021 22:46
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Wasn’t Julius Caesar an immortal alien?
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Feb 15, 2021 22:49
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:That's been one of the longest running criticisms of Bendis, he has one voice for men and one for women and that's it. You can randomize half the panels in New Avengers and nothing would seem amiss. I'd disagree, but there's definitely a vibe where if a character isn't being focused on, he has some default tics he'll just fill in.
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Feb 15, 2021 23:20
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Lurdiak posted:Every time I think of Bendis and Carol I think of this panel. I remember those days, when the most discussion about Carol was whether she was fat or not. I actually like the origin she had in the movie, kind of accidental and related to Mar-Vell, but less focused on their relationship. I did not care for Life of Captain Marvel, but the art was great, and some of the introspective moments worked quite well (and I like Carol and Tony being friends).
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Feb 16, 2021 01:46
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See, that says to me that the movie failed, because it makes a big deal about Mar-Vell being super important to Carol, it's supposed to be why the Supreme Intelligence appears as her to her. But because they, for some reason, decided to do the bizarre amnesia/kidnapping story and start us at that point, we don't get their relationship established until more than halfway through the film. So it's really easy to feel like Mar-Vell doesn't matter, but... like... you don't cast Annette Bening to play a character that doesn't matter. I did also think The Life Of Captain Marvel felt a tiny bit derivative of Aquaman. Specifically the Aquaman movie.
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Feb 16, 2021 03:08
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Gaz-L posted:See, that says to me that the movie failed, because it makes a big deal about Mar-Vell being super important to Carol, it's supposed to be why the Supreme Intelligence appears as her to her. But because they, for some reason, decided to do the bizarre amnesia/kidnapping story and start us at that point, we don't get their relationship established until more than halfway through the film. So it's really easy to feel like Mar-Vell doesn't matter, but... like... you don't cast Annette Bening to play a character that doesn't matter. Ehh, the Marvel films are relatively consistent at wasting brilliant actors hired for secondary roles.
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Feb 16, 2021 03:13
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Gaz-L posted:I did also think The Life Of Captain Marvel felt a tiny bit derivative of Aquaman. Specifically the Aquaman movie. That would be a trick because the first issue of The Life of Captain Marvel came out like four months before Aquaman.
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Feb 16, 2021 03:23
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The Captain Marvel movie is the first time I actually liked Carol as a character (although I haven't read the Kelly Thompson run), so despite its flaws I'm pretty positive on it. It probably helps that in the movie she isn't explicitly a conservative or on the wrong side of both Civil War events.
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Feb 16, 2021 03:25
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Lurdiak posted:The Captain Marvel movie is the first time I actually liked Carol as a character (although I haven't read the Kelly Thompson run), so despite its flaws I'm pretty positive on it. 
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Feb 16, 2021 03:28
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howe_sam posted:That would be a trick because the first issue of The Life of Captain Marvel came out like four months before Aquaman. Maybe just one of those parallel development things, then. Just the idea of super-powered lady from another world meeting regular dude on a pier in a fishing village and falling in love, has kid who is our hero, but then dies as her past comes back to haunt her.
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Feb 16, 2021 03:42
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Kelly Thompson's run is the first time since House of M that Ms Marvel/Captain Marvel has been a tolerable character to me. They really put her through the ringer in the interim, draining her of her unique characteristics while trying to push her as an A-lister. Harsh stuff.
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Feb 16, 2021 04:00
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The Question IRL posted:Carol being Half-Kree is just the smarter move. Connecting her (even indirectly) to the Kree Empire gives her more of a reason for why she is always interacting/opposing the Kree. And it’s a better origin than a problematic “I got caught up in a wishing machine and my deepest wish was to be a secret alien.” It was so weird that they did that so close to the movie coming out. Usually they try to plug that by making things closer to the MCU or using villains featured there.
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Feb 16, 2021 04:09
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Thanks for all the recommendations guys!
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Feb 16, 2021 05:38
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Edge & Christian posted:I feel like with the Kree at least there's been some weird Roy Thomas style explainers for this since the Celestials and some other cosmic beings were experimenting on 'primitive races' millions of years ago and were loving with humanity and the Kree simultaneously. It came up again recently in Empyre, but a bunch of Kree were taken to Earth's moon a million years ago for some sort of contest, and the Kree were dropping Sentries onto Earth tens of thousands of years ago to keep an eye on humanity/the Eternals/the Inhumans. i can't stop thinking about this kree refugee world that has decided to adapt the roman empire as a way of life who does this mini justice? gillen?
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Feb 16, 2021 05:45
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Gillen was exactly my thought too. It honestly feels like something he'd pitch.
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Feb 16, 2021 06:40
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I feel like recently is the first time in ages they've made Carols alcoholism something she struggles with, instead of a background element, a footnote that artists forget and writers have to No-prize that actually it was definitely non-alcoholic beer.
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Feb 16, 2021 13:53
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Gaz-L posted:I feel like recently is the first time in ages they've made Carols alcoholism something she struggles with, instead of a background element, a footnote that artists forget and writers have to No-prize that actually it was definitely non-alcoholic beer. Who was the first to really use it? Busiek?
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Feb 16, 2021 14:32
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Dawgstar posted:Who was the first to really use it? Busiek? Yeah, she got tossed from the team over it.
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Feb 16, 2021 14:46
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Rhyno posted:Yeah, she got tossed from the team over it. Yeah, I wanted to say it came up because she was trying to hide the fact she wasn't Binary anymore (and 'just' had her Ms. Marvel powers) which was pretty stressful but couldn't recall.
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Feb 16, 2021 15:35
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, I wanted to say it came up because she was trying to hide the fact she wasn't Binary anymore This made me do a double-take before I remembered that used to be her codename
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Feb 16, 2021 17:47
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Who was Ms Marvel at the time? Because they had to give her a stupid codename. WARBIRD.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:54
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