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Hello I'm permabanned poster robelord_1054 and I'm back to enlighten you all with my extremely correct ideas about religion I'm a regular poster with a horse avatar who teaches on a Lakota reservation, I've been applying for jobs and somehow one of the potential employers linked my forums account to me. So, uh, in the meantime I'll use this and please try to refrain from using my old handle. Merry Christmas everyone! Cyrano4747, I agree with those saying this isn't just a coffee table chill chat thread. We've often gotten very deep into serious theological and philosophical issues and it's not a problem because everyone respects each other and avoids making it argumentative or personal (most of the time). When we have serious discussions it usually goes something like: A: My understanding of my tradition is [stuff]. B: Well, I respectfully disagree, we believe that [reasoned and civil description of opposing beliefs]. A: Huh yeah that's pretty different! Thanks for putting the effort into explaining, I learned something. B: No prob, and thanks for your post too! Here's a silly hat. Our thread regulars have very deeply-held beliefs and will engage in sincere good-faith posting at length. This is an extremely tolerant thread, we've got a wide spectrum of Christians, a couple pagans, a few atheists/agnostics/non-believers, some Jews, a few Buddhists that hang out, etc. It's very much not an echo chamber but I guess it's a "safe space" in the sense that one of the core thread values/rules is to be respectful, understanding, and not a dick. We run into trouble when things get too political, especially when posters who don't frequent the thread crash in and want to have a debate about politics and religion. Which isn't to say we haven't had good discussion about politics, but especially in the context of the US things can get too heated. We can talk about coverup of sexual abuse (not just Catholics, pretty much everyone) and LGBTQ issues etc. you just kind of need to read the drat room, understand the audience, and approach in a respectful, calm, and reasoned manner. A poor analogy might be if someone kramered into the Mil Hist thread and insisted that because the thread is full of historians who know something about the rise of fascism, the Mil Hist thread needs to collectively take action to educate the public and oppose the current rise of right-wing nationalist parties. I mean, yeah we all think fascism is real bad but that's not really what the thread is about and also I'm not sure what you want us to do?? Oh well because you're refusing to acknowledge the threat of fascism and do something about it, you're enabling fascists. Buh?? Why aren't you engaging with me? Why are you so hostile? It's somewhere between concern trolling and sealioning. I'll be charitable and chalk it up to not lurking enough. For example, when PJ comes in here, I know she's absolutely sincere in her convictions and I agree with her generally, she just escalates to hostility and basically accuses a thread full of people who agree with her of being the enemy. Anyway for thread rules I'd propose: 1) No abortion chat. Period. 2) Don't be a dick. Do post silly hats and vestment bling. 3) Lurk more. You're very welcome here no matter your religious beliefs (or lack thereof). Feel free to introduce yourself but if you want to post serious stuff, lurk and then approach with respect and an open mind. edit: HEY GUNS' comparison to Muslims being asked about terrorism I think is very apt. It's not that we can't have a discussion of right-wing politics and American Evangelicalism but that's a really complicated subject and if your initial framing is to assign responability for various evils to the Christian community collectively well you've already made it hostile. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Dec 26, 2019 |
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Dec 26, 2019 05:37
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Liquid Communism posted:I'm rather of the opinion that the sole and only reason it doesn't get hostile beyond Lutha Mahtin being aggressive is because a strong effort is made to avoid discussing the issues that are actually controversial among the generally left of center SA population, such as abortion. I dunno, we've talked about LGBTQ stuff a lot as an example (I don't think recently so much), there's a good bit of disagreement in this thread on that but it's mostly been civil. Also we have a lot of non-US people and I don't think trying to map the US political spectrum onto the thread is terribly useful. Mostly our discussions are theological, doctrinal, and liturgical rather than explicitly political. I think the most important point is this thread gets along just fine when it's the regulars and occasional chill newbie, where we have problems is driveby posters being argumentative. I mean, we could start a Religion or Religion & Politics thread in D&D but it would be an insufferable shitshow.
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Dec 26, 2019 06:21
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there's a lot in this world to be (righteously) mad about it's just not very productive to be mad in the direction of this thread, though in the case of LM it can occasionally be amusing
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Dec 26, 2019 06:25
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Deteriorata posted:Abortion is fundamentally a political issue. It's about controlling women and limiting their autonomy. That's the problem with discussing abortion. It's not really a religious issue. Conservatives just dress it up like one. nooo please don't, this is why abortion chat is forbidden
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Dec 26, 2019 06:29
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HEY GUNS posted:gently caress. are you ok? Generally speaking yes, thanks. This particular employer is a huge international lab corporation so they must have the internet wizardry and manpower to scour for my email address or something. More than likely my core gmail address was on a forums profile with my handle on some tiny forum fifteen years ago I've long forgotten about. They sent me some written interview questions to respond to and one of them was "could you please describe your activities on the Something Awful Forums" and I was like ohcrap ohcrap. I mean I'll just say something about how it's a comedy forum that can get pretty explicit but I was never involved in the offensive and bigoted stuff which is true. Hopefully they're not actually going to read my (long) post history, I'm assuming it was just flagged and if I give them a satisfactory answer nbd. I'm most interested in working for small colleges though, it was just an unwelcome surprise. Worthleast posted:I saw a beer in St. Louis last week named Snicklefritz and I thought of your registered nicklehorse. Hey now, don't shortchange Snicklefritz Kash, he's a registered quarterhorse! That's five whole nicklehorses! Apparently "snicklefritz" is German slang for a bratty child which is pretty appropriate tbh.
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Dec 26, 2019 17:08
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JacquelineDempsey posted:Thanks! Maybe I'll shoot for the OCA one tomorrow. It's a small and new church (looks like they just started last year); they hold their services at our city's Garden Club building and don't have a website, just a facebook page. They do mention that their services are entirely in English, so that sounds like going in on Easy Mode for me. Lots of FB comments about how welcoming they are. I attended the OCA church HEY GUNS is a member of a couple times. Also slight lol at his church and the one you're looking at both being in a strip mall thing, it's a very small denomination. Some observations on Orthodox services: The format is totally different than what you're used to in Western churches. There are no pews, though there's probably seating along the sides if you need a break. Mostly everyone stands. There is no instrumental music, just voice chanting (though apparently the Greeks are ~modernist~ and do instruments and pews). Just follow along as best you can. You can leave the sanctuary and go take a bathroom break or chill in the fellowship hall for a bit. The service is very... free form. In terms of communion, the priest will cut the bread into tiny chunks at the altar (using a golden knife) then put them in a chalice of wine. The priest will announce that Communion is only for members but come up for a blessing if you want. People will form a line and the priest spoons some of the bread + wine mixture from the chalice into their mouth. When you get there, you can just kiss the cross the priest has, don't take the elements. There should be blessed bread nearby which you can consume. You absolutely don't need to stay parked and also there aren't seats to be parked in heh. I dunno about Orthodox but other churches that practice closed communion have you cross your arms over your chest as you come forward, indicating you want a blessing but won't partake of the Eucharist elements. I would recommend going a little earlier and introducing yourself to the priest and some of the parishioners. edit: oh also, the Coptic church is most likely going to be the Egyptians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_Orthodox_Church_of_Alexandria I'm going to assume it would be very ethnically-specific and most/all of the liturgy is probably in Coptic. Which is derived from ancient Egyptian and written with Greek letters, which is baller. They have their own pope too. I've been to Armenian Orthodox services twice and imo when all the liturgy is in Armenian or another foreign language it's a bit less approachable. Same goes for Ethiopian Orthodox, it's going to be in Amharic and Ge'ez and also like 5 hours long. Not that they aren't awesome experiences! Armenian chant is one of my favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIy0xIL9KQM Apparently their tradition was influenced by Catholics at various points so it has elements from both Eastern and Western chant. edit2: here's the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (one of the most commonly used) in English https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PwYEyBNXKs&t=814s Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Dec 29, 2019 |
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Dec 29, 2019 00:32
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Slimy Hog posted:Don't do this at an Orthodox Divine Liturgy, we cross our arms when going up to receive the gifts and it will confuse the priest. oh derp nevermind then! Yeah go a bit early and introduce yourself to the priest as a visitor. You'll just kiss his cross instead of receiving communion, or if you just want to stand in back I'm gonna guess that wouldn't be a big deal.
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Dec 29, 2019 01:12
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Lots of politics and economics chat in this here religion thread I had a dream last night that lead me to this question: what are the significance of numbers and dates specifically in the New Testament? Why is Jesus in the tomb for three days before He rises from the dead? Whats the significance of three days, why not two or seven? Similarly why does Jesus spend 40 days fasting in the desert and 40 days before his Ascension?
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Jan 2, 2020 17:15
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Cyrano4747 posted:Three is considered an important number in a lot of numerological traditions. I don't know specifically about what was going on in ancient Judea with regards to that, but that would be my guess. Yeah that occurred to me, I also wondered if maybe three days relates to something in Jewish funeral customs?
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Jan 2, 2020 17:28
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Deteriorata posted:United Methodist Church is expected to split over gay marriage disagreement, fracturing the nation’s third-largest denomination Yeah this sucks, unfortunately it seems to be almost inevitable for mainstream Protestant groups in the US, the UMC is the last sizable denomination I'm aware of that hasn't schismed over LGBTQ stuff and ordaining women (but mostly LGBTQ marriage and ordination). The Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians etc have all had "traditionalist" groups splinter off. I really hope my parents' UMC church doesn't join the "traditionalist" faction, I suspect they would stop attending if it does. Either way it's likely to tear apart the congregation since there are strong feelings on both sides and I'm assuming it will eventually come to a vote. Last summer one of our deacons gave a sermon (pastor was ill) about how LGBTQ people were possessed by demons and anyone who recognized LGBTQ identities or supported their rights was following a false God. My dad's a longtime friend of his and approached him after church and said "thanks for giving the sermon, I disagree about your conclusions from Scripture and would like to discuss it sometime." The guy replied "well if you disagree then you're worshipping Satan" and my dad came pretty close to decking the guy in the fellowship hall. They don't talk anymore. Anyway I'll be praying for as peaceful and amiable a transition as possible for the UMC, though it's going to divide communities and cause a lot of strife no matter what. It might be idealistic of me but I hope for a future where the various mainstream American Protestant denominations become more unified, maybe even loosely joined. There's already a lot of agreements of full communion between them, and I think they'd be stronger together than as a bunch of smaller denominations. PHIZ KALIFA posted:hey, is it just a New England thing to serve the communion hot? I know a few worship leaders who wheel a crock pot up to the front and give everyone a ladel of mulled and watered wine or grape juice. Someone mentioned the Eucharist containing raisin, so I wonder just how local this is. I've never heard of this but tbh mulled wine sounds pretty nice for winter time. edit: ulmont posted:Also church leaders: "We'd rather split the church than accept any icky gay people!"[2] It really is about icky gay people. If the conversation were about sexual morality broadly, okay, that's more palatable. But the traditionalists aren't talking about pornography, masturbation, fornication, adultery, etc (just as examples), it's all about LGBTQ stuff. I also think many of these traditionalists approach the conversation in the wrong way. It shouldn't be "are LGBTQ people bad and should we reject them?" but rather "how do we as Christians show love and acceptance to this marginalized group while maintaining our beliefs on gender and sexuality?" I mean, I'm a gay dude. I have strong opinions on this issue. I'd be more sympathetic toward "traditionalist" arguments if they didn't seem to mostly be in bad faith and actively exclusionary. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 18:16
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Deteriorata, have you heard anything about how the UMC splintering will be handled internationally, particularly in Africa? My understanding was a lot of the anti-LGBTQ marriage/ordination pressure was from Africa which is where the growth in the UMC is coming from. This article https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2020/january/united-methodist-church-umc-plan-protocol-split-plan.html talks about the Wesleyan Covenant Association forming a traditionalist denomination in the US but says nothing about international changes. Do you know if international conferences of the UMC will be able to vote to join the WCA too?
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Jan 3, 2020 18:35
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Deteriorata posted:Unfortunately, I don't really know anything about it. They've kept it all pretty close to the vest thus far and there hasn't been much discussion in our local congregation, either. We've all kind of been on tenterhooks wondering how it was going to shake out. From that article it seems like the decision to stay/leave will be at the regional annual conference level and not by individual congregations? It's gonna be a painful mess either way, lots of members will be upset and there will inevitably be folks who leave for more progressive or traditional churches.
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Jan 3, 2020 18:51
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HEY GUNS posted:Holy Trinity i'd guess. Also if you're Orthodox the soul of a dead person takes 40 days to get to heaven, I think. How do aerial tollhouses affect that 40-day commute  Hmm I thought about the Trinity, but I thought the development of Trinitarian doctrine was a little bit later. Like, there are references to the three persons of God in the New Testament, but if the Gospel writers understood Jesus being dead for three days as numerically reflecting the Trinity, that seems like a strong and early statement of Trinitarian doctrine. I'm sure people have written about this maybe I'll do some research this weekend.
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Jan 4, 2020 19:39
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:if military recruiters can come to schools, they should be able to recruit in churches as well. Recruiting in schools fulfills a career-counseling function. We had military recruiters but also tons of college representatives visit and you could go talk to them over lunch break. Joining the military is a decent option for some high schoolers. It's a very popular path where I live/work since unemployment is around 85-90% here so if you didn't do great in HS it's one way to have guaranteed housing, a paycheck, and maybe develop some skills and maturity/discipline to later start a career or go to tech school or something. The Lakota also are extremely proud of their warrior culture so there's even more prestige and respect given to veterans than in the US at large. Of course it's not great that our military recruits heavily from minority and underprivileged groups, but recruiting in schools makes sense as informing students of their post-graduation options. I guess I don't know if recruiting in houses of worship is explicitly prohibited in the US? It'd be in really poor taste, though. If you're recruiting in high schools you're already reaching all of the potential recruits, setting up a booth outside a church would be redundant. edit: Nth Doctor posted:I'm a little sacrament short and stout HEY GUNS posted:lol I started writing "I like incense" to the tune of Baby Got Back (I Like Big Butts) and then felt bad
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Jan 4, 2020 20:05
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I like incense and I cannot lie you other brothers can't deny when a priests walks in with a thurible on chain and vestment decked in lace you get CLEANSED i'm so sorry oh also should we start pitching new thread title ideas?
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Jan 4, 2020 20:14
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ThePopeOfFun posted:Y'all, I'm freaking out about the potential war with Iran, but mostly that so many people shame criticism of government as...anti-America? Wanting troops to die? I'm not sure how to let it go, and engaging on social media seems like the worst option. Yeah the situation in the ME is really bad. I've been praying a lot for peaceful de-escalation. Part of the American myth is that we're always right and the good guys. You're not allowed to criticize the military and military actions in particular, that's unpatriotic. Pure jingoism. It's a very toxic national culture and I don't really know how you break away from it. We came close with the Vietnam anti-war movement but that wasn't enough.
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Jan 5, 2020 02:32
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Captain von Trapp posted:Here's a useful shibboleth for level of familiarity with the Bible: whether they tack an 's' on Revelation. Two Corinthians walk into a bar
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Jan 5, 2020 18:03
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Captain von Trapp posted:Man, I'm sure there have been worse Bible literacy butcheries by politicians, but I can't think of any offhand. The live interview answer to "What's your favorite verse?" is usually classic too. "There's so many good ones it's hard to pick"
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Jan 5, 2020 18:37
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Epicurius posted:So much agriculture talk! How else are you gonna make bread wine and silk hmm?
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Jan 5, 2020 19:21
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Definitely don't use this but do imagine someone having checked-out grandpa do a reading and he messes up and reads this, completely serious, instead:Ezekiel 23:19-21 posted:19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.  Ezekiel, Revelation, and the non-canonical stuff are pretty  Here's an actual good one if you, your dad, or your bride's dad are bald: 2 Kings 2:23-25 posted:23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria.
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Jan 6, 2020 00:53
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Also Evangelicalism strongly emphasizes a personal relationship between Jesus and the individual as the most important part of salvation as well as the primacy of Scripture. I went to some Evangelical Bible camps as a kid and there was tons of Scripture memorization (you'd have competitions). Accepting Jesus into your heart and asking for forgiveness was the magic key to salvation. Theoretically you only need to do it once but might as well do it once a week, can't hurt.
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Jan 6, 2020 19:25
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Cyrano4747 posted:Hey now.
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Jan 6, 2020 20:10
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Don't forget the Evangelical emphasis on Scripture. Most are pretty literalist, but strongly emphasizing Bible study is a core part of Evangelicalism
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Jan 6, 2020 20:34
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The older usage of Evangelical is translation from the Greek for gospel believing. Which is why many Lutheran churches have Evangelical in their name. It's completely separate from the American Evangelical movement
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Jan 6, 2020 22:29
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Wasn't one of the motivations for infant baptism the high mortality rates?
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Jan 9, 2020 21:12
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Hey all, I'm in the hospital with severe pneumonia. Prayers appreciated
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Jan 15, 2020 05:09
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It's a weird atypical pneumonia the doc just told me to spit into a cup, give him all the nastiest phlegm
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Jan 15, 2020 05:33
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quote:Assume you're referring to the Orthodox here. Most Canadian Mennonites emigrated from Russia/Ukraine (where they'd settled after leaving the Netherlands). Mostly not my ancestors, who predominantly came from Germany and settled in Ohio and Pennsylvania. There are boatloads of Hutterites and Mennonites in the Dakotas too. Like my ancestors they took Catherine the Greats invitation to farm the Volga in return for religious freedom and no conscription but that didn't last. So they went from farming the Russian steppe to farming the American and Canadian Steppe
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Jan 15, 2020 18:37
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HEY GUNS posted:how are you feeling Quite a bit better thanks. My blood oxygen was seventy some percent when I came in which is  territory but it's normal now. They've got me on oxygen and antibiotics and still trying to figure out what weird flavor of pneumonia I have since it's an unusual presentation. I'm not in intensive care, stable conditionEdit: Diagnosis goonmonia
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Jan 15, 2020 19:18
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You might dig up the Islam thread and PM the main posters. I am not aware of any Muslims active in this thread though they're certainly welcome and might be lurking
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Jan 16, 2020 04:13
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Lutha Mahtin posted:also a bunch of my extended family and in-laws make borscht and other random russky things. the volga runs through our veins runzas. chislick Different culture but: The Hebrews are wandering the desert and our Minnesotan couple Ole and Lena are randomly there for the purposes of this joke. Manna falls from heaven and the Hebrews start snarfing it down. Lena notices Ole looks slightly disappointed. "Oh don choo worry der's plenty of lefse for everyone!". Ole replies "ya but dere's no budder or coffee." I just wrote an Ole and Lena joke which is extreme dad joke mood. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Jan 16, 2020 |
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Jan 16, 2020 10:40
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Caufman posted:Wow, has it been that long? I hope Tendai's still around. Tendai's cool. Oh duh, that's who I was trying to remember. She's be a good person to PM
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Jan 16, 2020 20:39
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The general attitudes I've heard about Salvation Army in the US is they do pretty good work but they're kinda pushy about getting the people they help into their version of Christianity. Also they're really anti-LGBT.
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Jan 20, 2020 04:42
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Hey for what it's worth I made a thread about living and working on the reservation https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3909912 If any of you are interested, I can certainly talk some about religion, spirituality, and syncretism. Or other stuff.
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Jan 20, 2020 22:05
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BattyKiara posted:Today is my birthday. As you can probably imagine, I'm feeling horribly lonely and pretty depressed. Could you all please pray that this is the last year I don't have anyone to invite over for a cup of tea and some cake or something? Happy birthday and praying for you! For what it's worth I'm still in the hospital with severe pneumonia, have been for a week. Prayers are appreciated. Also, I'm bored as hell so if anyone wants to chat you can hit me up at thehorsefritz at gmail dot com
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Jan 22, 2020 22:26
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Thirteen Orphans posted:I’m chubby nun third from the bottom whose veil hit a sick wind. it's me I'm the nun directly above you with the  face
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Jan 24, 2020 08:00
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Bar Ran Dun posted:If any of you have Prime there is a truly amazing movie that I think is very much in this threads alley called, Sweet Land, very, very much worth watching. quote:When Inge Altenberg (Elizabeth Reaser), a young German woman, arrives in rural Minnesota, she meets Norwegian farmer Olaf Torvik (Tim Guinee), a fellow immigrant. Olaf's parents in Norway have arranged for the two to marry, but problems arise when she doesn't have the proper papers. Despite being unwed, the couple lives and farms together, causing a rift with their community. In the face of considerable hardship, Inge and Olaf toil away and grow closer in the process. Lutha Mahtin you should maybe watch this with your fiance edit: also to throw water on the romanticization of American "settlement," a friendly reminder that the native Dakota and Ojibwe were mostly genocided a few decades before the movie is set Andrew Myrick posted:So far as I am concerned, if they are hungry let them eat grass or their own dung. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 08:30
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Captain von Trapp posted:I don't know about pastors specifically, but there's a pretty good history in terms of Christians writing theologically-informed SF. Tolkien and Lewis loom largest, of course, but they were far from the only ones. Lewis's Space Trilogy is okay but much like his Narnia stuff is rather hamfisted Christian allegory. I'd much prefer to read something that explores theological issues from an interesting sci fi / fantasy perspective. Like theodicy, seems you could do a lot with theodicy. I just don't like being beaten over the head with obvious Biblical / Christianity references. You see, the lion is actually Jesus!
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Jan 29, 2020 02:56
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Thanks for the recs I'll check them out. And yeah, Tolkien is extremely Catholic but his writing isn't apologia like Lewis. His Christianity comes through much more subtly.
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Jan 29, 2020 04:36
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Yes I'm recovering, thanks for the prayers! Turns out I got a double whammy of coronavirus (a bad one, not the Chinese one, but I was in quarantine anyway) and pneumonia at once. Could barely breathe, they were surprised I was conscious when I drove myself to the hospital and had a 72% blood oxygen saturation. Anyway it sucked and I'm really glad to be back to work. I gotta gain weight now, I lost 25 pounds and none of my pants fit. That's a "good" problem to have I guess. Moral of the story is get a pneumonia vaccine in addition to flu especially if you're at higher risk. Like if you work with children, they're little filth golems.
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Jan 29, 2020 15:11
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