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The only good MMOs have been: UO Pre-CU SWG Vanilla WoW
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Dec 13, 2018 01:46
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I think this is the first time we are seeing nothing new or interesting on the horizon from the big developers in the MMO space, and that is where all this dread is coming from. When I played WoW for over a decade, there was always a thought in the back of my mind that a newer, better, grander MMO was just around the corner, and all I needed to do was wait a few more years and it would be released. But it never happened. And now I'm 30. gently caress.
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Mar 19, 2019 00:41
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Zaphod42 posted:We're going in circles now because people just dump hottakes in the thread and leave without really reading for context. There is definitely a gap in the market for a community focused MMO with a slower overall pace. The question that Classic WoW will answer this year is how many players are there really that want this type of game? I have no doubt over a million will return, but how many will still be playing passed the first 6 months? Classic WoW has the ability to show Blizzard that old school MMO design isn't dead, but that will only happen if a very large number of players continue to participate. 50K active players may be great for project1999, but a billion dollar corporation needs active players in the millions. I realize that you can have a well designed MMO made be a smaller studio that focuses on a smaller subscriber base, but so far I haven't found one that is competent. Ashes of Creation, Pantheon Online, and Shroud of the Whatever are all examples of inexperienced developers chasing that smaller player base, but never having the resources to make the game they are imagining in their heads. On the other hand, a larger studio will want a player base in the millions, because game development cost has risen to the point of insanity, and no AAA publisher will risk another TOR or Warhammer Online. IF classic WoW is able to maintain a solid 1 million subscribers, I think this can kickstart a second wave of next-generation MMOs made by developers that have real experience and expectations.
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Mar 21, 2019 18:51
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PvE content needs a massive rework to make it engaging again. How many dungeons and raids can a game like WoW or FFXIV really release before you've seen it all? Oh look, this raid is pirate themed and the end boss has 6 phases instead of 5. At what point does the entire concept become redundant? I distinctly remember WoW Vanilla, BC, and WOTLK dungeons and raids down to the last boss, but even though I've played all of the recent expansions, I still have a hard time remembering each individual encounter from Cata, MOP, WoD, and Legion like I did from previous expansions. Just how many more mechanics and themes can a development team create in order to make the content engaging? I think there is a drop off point after expansion #3 in all MMOs that focus on PVE. SWG never had this problem because SWG barely had any fixed content. All content was centered around community and player driven activities. It had a giant sandbox world that you just did things in, and if you were getting bored, you'd just retrain all of your talents and become a Swordsman instead of a Pikeman.
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Mar 23, 2019 14:12
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Gort posted:* Control land That really is the perfect MMO that I have in my head. Allow me and my friends to build a shelter from the ground up and defend it against interesting PvE encounters (with optional PvP), trade with other guilds by using a caravan system you have to maintain, and throw in some large open dungeons that can be farmed for rarer materials. Make the entire economy player driven, allow a player who just wants to farm and sell pumpkins on his farm to be an actual viable way to play the game, and eventually give players the tools to create giant cities that span a massive world. This is what all the survival pseudo MMOs are trying to do now. I'm not sure why none of them can nail it. Either the game is a technical disaster, or the player base is so toxic that it makes playing the game an absolute chore. Something about the PvP in those games just bring out the worst in people.
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Apr 2, 2019 01:41
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forge posted:So basically Atlas.. Except that turned out bad. Still annoyed at that. Why can't a game like this just work? I just want a SWG/Ark/Rust type MMO that focuses on PvE. Ruggan posted:Guess I'm not entirely sure what I want. This too.
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Apr 9, 2019 03:39
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Groovelord Neato posted:2006? didn't it come out in 2004? August 2006 is when patch 1.12 launched, which is where Classic will be starting from.
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May 11, 2019 02:03
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Groovelord Neato posted:not really classic then. blizzard fumbles a layup once again! It's about as close as we are going to get. We don't have to deal with dumb things like an 8 debuff slot limit, but there will only be MC/Ony available as raids from the start. Content phases will allow a sense of progression over the first year with raids like BWL, AQ40, and Naxx releasing in a similar way to how patches worked in Vanilla. What they do after Naxx comes out is anyone's guess.
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May 11, 2019 16:37
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Biowarfare posted:I honestly hate it when every single patch gets pre-mined, no surprises, everyone runs exactly one (or two) optimised routes in some way, there's a mandatory BIS for anything and people will reject you if you don't match some kind of minimum score, everything becomes down to a specific number and no one bothers with side quests, any form of the 'RP' part of RPG, side skills or professions other than the absolute necessary ones, addons that automatically check if you're wearing BIS whatever and reject if not, a pre-planned guide on how to level and exactly where to go in which order, etc It really feels like the final chapter of the MMO genre: Diluting the MMO experience to a single spreadsheet of efficiency where there can be no deviation because why would you play sub-optimally? In WoW, there are guilds created around the concept of running people through Heroic and Mythic content for in game and real world currency. There's a large backlash right now with players complaining that the advertisements for these services are filling up the LFG tool and trade chat. Everyone is looking for ways to either remove the services using a filter, or to start banning everyone that recruits for these services. But why do these services even exist? What compels players to spend real world money just to be run through a Heroic raid for gear and a mount? My current opinion on this is that some players are so sick of the meta minmax esport WoW has become that they don't want to deal with the spreadsheets, ilevels, raidsims, ioscores, and dps meters. They just want to log into the game and pay for the content instead of having to deal with the perceived toxicity these tools can create. However, this kind of makes me also wonder why they even play an MMO instead of just relaxing with a game like Assassin's Creed.
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Aug 5, 2020 01:16
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thetoughestbean posted:There’s even a term for games trying to ape MMOs without the Massively Multiplayer part: games as a service That's what most modern games took from MMOs. Large publishers didn't need to make MMOs anymore, they just needed their business model. These days you can play an online multiplayer game with RPG elements where you can either stab, shoot, or build something with your friends. There are dozens that come out every year, and publishers have found a way to monetize them indefinitely through DLC and skins.
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Aug 6, 2020 15:13
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Jokerpilled Drudge posted:how can you still be this naive after having witnessed dozens of mmo's be uninspired schlock from internal alphas all the way through to release? Well there has to be a good MMO that comes out at some point, right? Right??
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Aug 29, 2020 03:40
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DRWN posted:
When I was very young, there was an EGM magazine (think of a paper book, but with colored pictures  ) with an article about an upcoming Star Wars MMO. The magazine claimed that you could create a unique character in this Star Wars universe and do whatever you wanted. There was a small example of a Droid Engineer profession that could create Star Wars droids. They could also sell the droids to other players, and even use them in combat situations. I thought "Wow, that's so cool!" The game turned out to be almost exactly like that article for me. I had a friend that used his droids to advertise his store in Theed. Players would look at the advertisement to get the exact waypoint coordinates to his shop so they could ride out all the way to the middle of Naboo to buy these droids from him. That's all he did in the game. There was a player in a large guild that would advertise a museum exhibition in a large building he owned in the town. He charged 200 credits to enter the museum and would have a new exhibition every few months where new players could visit and see all the high end items his guild had gathered from their hunts. He never participated in the hunts or raids, he just had a museum that he would tend to. It's been 17 years since I've played Star Wars Galaxies, and I have yet to have any of those experiences in an MMO that I have played. I am not sure if this is simply due to me getting older, or that developers are not interested in making these types of game anymore. I sometimes like to imagine what a SWG2 would look like today. Would I even play it? Droid Engineer is a bad profession that can not compete with Swordsman or Rifleman in any combat situation. Why would I ever make a museum when everyone knows the optimal way to obtain credits is running the 60K Dantooine missions over and over again.
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Sep 9, 2020 16:35
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What was the full story behind Archeage? From what I remember, goons were excited about the game at first, but then everything was broken on release and they came out with some cash shop that ruined the game. They then "remastered" the game and removed the scummy parts of the cash shop but no one was left to play the game?
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Sep 10, 2020 17:00
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eonwe posted:well some goons harbored a pedo who groomed an icelandic teenager (and had a boat with a pedobear sail and the boat was named Icelandic Teenager iirc) Oh.... Well... Ok then.
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Sep 10, 2020 17:29
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Why do we even have cash shops in MMOs these days? People have been paying $15 a month since Everquest. I have no problems going back to that model if it means removing the cash and pay to win shops entirely. Of course, some executive is sitting in a boardroom with a hardon just thinking of ways to have a $15 monthly fee AND a cash shop with pay to win.
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Sep 12, 2020 03:49
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jokes posted:MMORPGs are just chat rooms with extra rules and restrictions. Sometimes, rarely, the side game is engaging fun and cool. But at their core the MMORPG is an interactive chat room. Yeah, but we don't really need that anymore when everyone is in Discord. I use to log into WoW every day after school so I could talk to all my friends. Now I can play a singleplayer game with whatever engaging mechanic I want and still chat with a crew of people.
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Sep 13, 2020 16:15
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Jazerus posted:i'm struggling to understand when it became so common to talk about discord as though it's something revolutionary. i see this kind of sentiment increasingly often If we're comparing it to something like mIRC back in the day then sure, it was used, but not at the level of Discord. You've got game studios linking their official discords in their trailers these days. Of all the guilds I was in, maybe 10% of people used a chat program. Most communicated either on the forums or in-game. Maybe my experience is just an outlier though. jokes posted:Right so why play MMOs that aren’t fun? The unique aspect of MMOs was the whole "living in a persistent world with your friends" bullet point on the back of the box. At least, it was for me. MMOs these days are about how to extract the most amount of MAUs out of the game by incorporating a slot mahine of mobile game mechanics because we can't let the MAUs fall off, oh my god we need need to push the carrot farther out so everyone doesn't quit! When I was a kid and played SWG I always thought that in 20 years we would have games where we could literally live in Coruscant in our own apartment with a launch pad on the roof that we could use to fly around a giant universe with an unimaginable scale. Guilds would be able to buy whole planets and construct entire cities while going to war with rivals on the other side of the galaxy. Instead, we got Star Citizen. Cardboard Fox fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Sep 13, 2020 |
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Sep 13, 2020 17:30
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Mr. Pickles posted:Well having huge sandbox mmos based on griefing and warfare isn't the way of the future, because nobody wants to lose What do you guys want to see in the next gen MMO? I must be weird to want these massive universe sims where you can do everything, because where else do MMOs go? Static dungeons and raids have been done to death. We're never getting exploration as core gameplay anymore because everything will be found on a datamined website before beta finishes. Full loot PvP has too much toxicity to bring a large portion of the playerbase to your game. Unless AI unlocks some new emergent gameplay in the next decade, I just can't see an MMO coming out with a unique premise that we can't already get with existing singleplayer and multiplayer games.
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Sep 14, 2020 14:21
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Biowarfare posted:I wasn't... alive for the first batch of MMOs. The choices were much more limited at the time. Even when WoW launched that's pretty much the only game me and my friends played for ~3 years. After Burning Crusade it seemed like the internet went into overdrive. I remember going from waiting on Amazon to ship my Baldur's Gate CD-ROM so I could play the game to instantly installing Oblivion on Steam with 1 click. These days if you want to play games, you just open Steam and download a 50GB title in less than an hour. 30 years of gaming is at your fingertips. And movies with Netflix. And the entire music library with Spotify. If you add some Youtube, news, and any social media sites you visit to your daily dose of internet, you will quickly realize there are not enough hours to do everything. Now imagine you're a healthy goon that has a real life social circle, outdoor hobbies, and a job. Well you can forget about raiding or doing anything serious in an MMO. So what I really want is an MMO that only 16 year old me can play. Present and future me will never actually play this dream MMO I am always posting about.
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Sep 16, 2020 04:30
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When it comes to an MMO becoming successful, I'm wondering how often this has to do with an already established world being made into an MMO. For me, I am willing to push through boring content in Final Fantasy, World of Warcraft, and Elder Scrolls because I am familiar with the setting, characters, and themes. I give those games a lot more slack. I was looking at the new Pantheon stream and could not understand why anyone would play a game that is so uninspired. But do I not like it because I'm not familiar with the world, or do I think it's trying to poorly imitate something that is already established?
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Jan 11, 2021 16:47
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For all of its faults, FFXIV still has the best community of players that I've interacted with in recent years. Everyone is just so chill and you never feel pressure when you're doing a trial or dungeon. I can count on maybe 1 hand the amount of times someone was angry in a group. Also, the armory system is the best MMO class system ever invented. I will never back down from this opinion.
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Jan 21, 2021 19:54
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Pandaal posted:I see this brought up a lot and it’s never acknowledged that Duty Finder content is faceroll easy compared to a lot of matchmade content in WoW. Yes, there are other systems adding stakes (and therefore, pressure) to the WoW content but I think it’s understated how much toxicity the challenge adds when you’re running with pubbies. I am wondering how much the increase in online toxicity is directly correlated to additional difficulty being added to a game. Back in the early days, the only real way to mess up as a dps was to accidentally pull extra adds. These days you need to know what the meta build of your class/spec currently is, perform a perfect dps rotation (everyone has a dps meter), interrupt specific spells (you're suppose to interrupt infernal charge, not infernal blast you idiot!), know every trash pack and boss encounter by heart so you don't wipe your group, and don't accidentally pull extra mobs. One of my first bad experiences in Shadowlands was when a Hunter had a meltdown because not everyone knew a boss encounter and we wiped a few times. The expansion launched 10 days before this.
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Jan 28, 2021 20:23
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Fried Sushi posted:I think this is a massive factor in the toxicity in WoW, I hate dps meters and think they cultivate that competitive attitude. It's not always whether the boss dies or the dungeon run was successful, its oh it could have been 5 minutes faster if that dumb dps class knew their rotation. WoW also has a bigger culture of min/maxing and optimization, dunno how many times I have been whispered and told I was using the wrong talents because I chose one that was fun to use rather than one that did 2% more dps. FF14 every class is static one Red Mage is the same as another so you don't get that 'optimal build' mindset. DPS meters became part of the core game once enrage timers were added to every boss. You needed a set number of dps to get the boss to the next phase or you will wipe, so a raid leader could link the meter and point out the Mage who was not pulling their weight. Hard enrage and soft enrage timers have been changed over the years, but the concept remains the same: your damage needs to be at least average to beat this encounter, and when half of the community is below average that's who the toxic people are going to target. Mythic+ has double-downed on this. Not only do you need a set amount of dps to beat the boss, but there is a dungeon timer you are also racing against.
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Jan 28, 2021 21:58
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What if there will never be another good MMO.
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Jan 31, 2021 02:13
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eonwe posted:https://massivelyop.com/2021/01/30/report-shines-light-on-mismanagement-bro-culture-and-chasing-trends-at-amazon-game-studios/ Imagine having all the money in the world to spend on making something cool and new and interesting. Instead, you decide to remake Fortnite and League of Legends...
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Jan 31, 2021 02:32
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Virginia Slams posted:All the talk about old EQ UI got me thinking pretty hard about the question in the thread title. This is the same reason why I think there will never be another MMO worth playing like Everquest, Star Wars Galaxies, and early WoW was for a lot of people my age. Just last week I read about some "movement" a poster was trying to start in MMOs. Basically, they said that to enjoy modern MMOs all you have to do is not read online guides or watch youtube videos about the game. If you did this, all the feelings you had for old school MMOs would return. I think what they failed to realize is just how difficult it would be to truly do this in a game like modern WoW. I want to see a new person start Shadowlands Mythic dungeons (not even raids) without knowing the spec you are supposed to be, which gear attributes you need, your rotation, and every detail about the dungeon encounters. I want to see how quickly they would be kicked out of the group. This could only work if you found a solid group of people with the same mindset. That could actually be an interesting experiment.
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Feb 13, 2021 16:15
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I think my new dream MMO is a Warhammer game, but they actually get it right this time. Sorry. I'm sorry. I apologize to everyone that enjoyed Warhammer Online.
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Feb 15, 2021 18:14
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Pants Donkey posted:Are there ANY Western MMORPGs on the horizon that aren’t doomed Kickstarters or being overly generous with the definition of MMORPG? The last big one I can think of was the pair of Everquest sequels that failed to launch, and before that it’s uh...Wildstar. Amazon will launch that New World game one day! Or they'll cancel it like all of their other games.
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Feb 21, 2021 14:51
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Kaysette posted:SWG was my first MMO and part of me has been lowkey chasing that experience ever since. Probably time for me to check out whatever SWG EMU server is in vogue these days... Same. There's no way it's been almost 18 years since it's release, right? I've tried playing the original SGWEMU, but just like WoW Classic, it's not really the same...
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Apr 30, 2021 14:15
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The company that owns Daybreak and a bunch of other studios is apparently making a new AAA MMO with "one of the greatest brands in the world." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AhMuE8xPnY&t=690s Anyone want to have some fun speculating what it could be? I'll go bold and say Everquest so I can quote this post in 10 years. If we all could put our cynicism aside for a day, what would you like out of Everquest 3?
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May 27, 2021 02:42
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Speaking of relapses, I'm playing EQ2 again for some reason. There's something to this game that makes it always feel like a missed opportunity. Is this what we will be doing for the next 20 years? Replaying the same MMOs over and over again?
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May 30, 2021 17:41
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Ehud posted:Here is a new MMO. It's Animal Crossing/Stardew Valley in a BOTW style open world with other players. Please keep in mind that playing MMOs for 20 years has broken my brain. With that said, this looks pretty cool. It seems to imply that combat will not be the sole focus?
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Jun 3, 2021 19:11
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How come there's no fishing MMO.
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Jun 4, 2021 23:25
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Interesting. Wonder what the end game is like.
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Jun 4, 2021 23:43
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Chomposaur posted:https://www.pcgamesn.com/final-fantasy-xiv/ffxiv-yoshi-p-interview-wow That's a really interesting interview. He's echoing the same things I have read on here and other MMO forums now for 10 years. I was too young to play UO, but I remember hearing stories about it from my SWG friends.
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Jun 7, 2021 13:34
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Jazerus posted:living in star wars This was the hook for me. I remember reading an EGM magazine about the game right before I started playing it. The article mentioned how you could become a Droid Engineer and create droids to use for combat, or to sell to other players. I remember thinking that was the coolest thing I've ever heard of doing in a video game. And you could actually do that in game, it wasn't just advertising. There were people who picked up the DE profession and just made droids to sell in their shop. Some didn't even bother with combat, they just lived in a player city and logged in every day to advertise their droid shop. Players would then drive down to your city and purchase stuff from you. It was a wild experience.
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Jun 10, 2021 02:35
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I said come in! posted:The Russian, and Korean version you could pay your way to level cap and having the best gear though. You can straight purchase gear and levels from a real-money store? Or is it more like potions that increase XP and probabilities if BiS drops?
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Jun 11, 2021 15:54
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Would you rather have dungeon finders to fill groups or being on a low population server or a dead hour and spending 30-60 minutes spamming "LF MORE CLASSES FOR DUNGEON NEED 3 MORE" until eventually some in the group get bored or have to leave? I've always wondered what would have happened with WoW if Blizzard merged servers instead of creating the group finder tool + CRZ. During it's peak, they had over a hundred servers, and plenty of them were low population. They could have easily merged 2 or 3 low population servers into a large server that wouldn't have required dungeon finder. Too much work for the indie company, I guess. They could have also done a better job with new players picking a server. Maybe ask players what they were looking for so they could be sent to servers that fit better with their play style (chill experience, hardcore raiding, social aspect, hardcore PvP, etc.)
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Jun 20, 2021 14:31
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When I hit level 50 back in ARR I geared out my character with the Ironworks set (i130) using the tomestones that I got from doing dungeons and raids. Now that I'm pushing 60, I was planning on doing the same with the Shire armor set (i270). Is this still the best way to get the top gear? Or did they add some catch up vendor I don't know about that sells good quality gear for gil? E: Just realized I posted this in the wrong thread. VV Thanks! Cardboard Fox fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jul 14, 2021 |
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Jul 14, 2021 00:05
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| # ¿ May 2, 2024 04:54 |
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Groovelord Neato posted:As much as I do not like FFXIV it's really funny that a game that originally had one of the worst MMO launches ever (and that's saying something with how many notoriously bad launches there have been) is eating WoW's lunch. What was unexpected for me was Shadowlands being below average. Usually WoW has periods where they launch a great expansion, and then a not great expansion. Cataclysm (not great) > Mist of Pandaria (great) > WoD (not great) > Legion (great!) > BFA (not great) > Shadowlands (not great?????) This is the first time I quit WoW and have no intention of coming back. FFXIV is different enough to give me a new perspective on MMOs.
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Jul 14, 2021 13:42
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