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There is actual text chat. Allegedly, and this might only be for the alpha, there are weekly tournaments with actual prize-pools to be won. So, if you get fairly decent/lucky packs can roll in not that badly. With the Steam Marketplace as well I imagine cards will, eventually, become dirt cheap like how Dota sets are going for like 10~ cents a pop on there. It'll probably be expensive for the first few months, though...
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Sep 3, 2018 15:37
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again, the man in charge said he really wants cards in this game to be as close to constant in value as possible, and valve should be pretty savvy at the whole digital video game trinket economy by now that this is an achievable goal so i wouldnt expect too much sway on that
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Sep 3, 2018 15:43
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Very excited to see this dumb economy chat pop up here now. I’m glad this isn’t the terrible Hearthstone model that doesn’t respect the players’ time or money. More value for your packs, buy whatever card you want from the market, fairer rarities. Play the game because you want to play the game.
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Sep 3, 2018 15:46
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Any indication of if there will be shiny/foil/golden variants of cards yet?
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Sep 3, 2018 15:49
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Mainwaring posted:Any indication of if there will be shiny/foil/golden variants of cards yet? Not really other than Gaben saying that they would be looking to do cosmetic stuff. People are assuming, rightly I think, that with 12 cards per pack, 1 rare per pack (rare being the highest rarity) that the cost of almost all cards in the market will be somewhat low. Valve estimated that you could buy all the commons for a couple of bucks, for example. They've also emphasized in articles that the point is to keep the game accessible - if you are playing monoblue like Turboraton but have an appropriate change of heart and want to get that black/green ramp lifestyle, you can sell the blue deck and get what you need for the green/black. Where Valve will make more money is what they do best in Dota 2 - foils, signed cards, cosmetic imps, etc. Also, the game costs 20 bucks but comes with 10 packs (20 bucks) and 2 pre-built decks of 40 cards each.
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Sep 3, 2018 15:55
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I'm trying to really think of a online card game where you didn't gave to pay to keep on playing and keep up with the meta and I'm coming up short Even in SV where they throw out free stuff I barely maintained one meta deck before quitting
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Sep 3, 2018 16:15
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mikeraskol posted:Where Valve will make more money is what they do best in Dota 2 - foils, signed cards, cosmetic imps, etc. That and charging a fee on every market transaction. boredsatellite posted:I'm trying to really think of a online card game where you didn't gave to pay to keep on playing and keep up with the meta and I'm coming up short I think you can keep up in Hearthstone, but you'd need to play A LOT
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Sep 3, 2018 16:32
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In Hearthstone you had to be very good at Arena or pay a lot to keep up. Luckily, there was 'going infinite' which gave you packs + gold which made everything easy. I got fairly far for a few years in Hearthstone off of being good at Arena alone. If you're not good? Then it was an abysmal grinding experience.
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Sep 3, 2018 16:37
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Shadowverse gives you loads of free poo poo, I was able to climb up to A-rank without spending any money on it and I had several pretty solid budget decks. I don't think I'd be able to hit GM with my current decks, but if I played more (or regularly/at all anymore) I think I could. I know a guy that plays for basically three hours a day three days a week and doesn't spend money on the game but has enough cards to play any deck he wants at the highest skill rating.
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Sep 3, 2018 16:43
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MTG Arena in its current state is extremely fair with its rewards and crafting system, although I suspect they might change the economy a bunch before official release.
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Sep 3, 2018 16:48
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botany posted:MTG Arena in its current state is extremely fair with its rewards and crafting system, although I suspect they might change the economy a bunch before official release. No it's not, and no they won't WOTC is a garbage company
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Sep 3, 2018 16:56
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boredsatellite posted:I'm trying to really think of a online card game where you didn't gave to pay to keep on playing and keep up with the meta and I'm coming up short Eternal is really good. Plus the game is good. Anyway I’ll wait and see what happens with this. Just dampened my excitement is all.
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Sep 3, 2018 17:00
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Jordan7hm posted:Eternal is really good. Plus the game is good. Eternal is awesome - but definitely grind through the 1.5 hour tutorial *shakes head* to get to the good parts.
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Sep 3, 2018 17:01
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James Totes posted:In Hearthstone you had to be very good at Arena or pay a lot to keep up. Also the general standard of arena player got a lot higher as time went on so it got harder and harder to go infinite
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Sep 3, 2018 18:25
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Jordan7hm posted:Eternal is really good. Plus the game is good. Ah right yeah Eternal heard good stuff about it. Yeah being wary about the monetization system is pretty understandable, especially considering there is a 20 buck upfront fee as well. We'll have to wait and see I guess. Also no stream today, guess no big tourney but more of letting as many people play as possible thing
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Sep 3, 2018 18:34
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Honestly I’ve played so many card games that I’m okay with paying to cut the bullshit* *assuming the game is fun and it doesn’t cost a arm and a leg to stay competitive.
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Sep 3, 2018 18:45
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It’s not so much the cost as it is the fact that opening packs is in itself enjoyable and one of the things digital games do really well vs physical products. There’s no cost to manufacture, they can give this stuff away for free. If they’re going to use the MTG model without the physical goods, you’re losing out on one of the advantages of having a digital game. Again, mostly just curious what the impact will be. Valve has a lot of sway, but big companies have misstepped over monetization schemes in the past.
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Sep 3, 2018 19:01
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Jordan7hm posted:It’s not so much the cost as it is the fact that opening packs is in itself enjoyable and one of the things digital games do really well vs physical products. There’s no cost to manufacture, they can give this stuff away for free. If they’re going to use the MTG model without the physical goods, you’re losing out on one of the advantages of having a digital game. Again, mostly just curious what the impact will be. Valve has a lot of sway, but big companies have misstepped over monetization schemes in the past. I can't really follow this post at all. There is opening of packs in this game, obviously. We just talked about that. And they are "approximating" the idea of physical goods by (i) not giving anything away for free and (ii) allowing the cards to be sold and bought on the Steam market (and eventually I assume traded as well). I guess I'm trying to follow your logic and concern here and I don't get it.
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Sep 3, 2018 20:24
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Anything below just getting all the cards when buying the game (or expansion sets) is money-grubbing with an exploitative model, but by all current accounts it seems like the game is pretty fun so it'll get a pass at first.
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Sep 3, 2018 20:27
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I actually like the model of paying 20 bux for a base set of cards + some packs. It makes me feel like I at least can put together a deck or two to start right from the get go. I also love opening packs and I don't mind paying bux for that excitement so I think this is a pretty cool compromise.
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Sep 3, 2018 20:36
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I think it would probably be a good idea for valve to do FTP by just consigning themselves to make all the cards in the starter decks worthless (in value, not power). With the current model the cards are going to be near worthless anyway unless they don't contain full playsets of some of the rarer cards. Valve could just include a full playset of every card used in the starter decks and allow anyone to make a FTP account with just those decks/cards unlocked. Then to increase replayability for FTP you include unlimited free entries into whatever limited/sealed/draft format is included. Free entries and paid entries play in the same queue but free entries do not keep cards or get prizes. People with paid accounts are allowed to play for free as well for practice/fun without spending extra cash. The free entry system will help keep the format stocked with players for healthy queue times. Additionally adding in free entries without prizes to the format allows better prizes to be given out without inflating the economy. If all entries were paid then aggregate prizes need to be very close in value to the entry fee in order to not deflate prices. Every time a free player wins games that essentially "destroys" potential prizes so prizes can be increased for paying players. This allows fewer wins needed to go positive. This of course assumes that there will be a limited format with entry fees and prizes. I believe I have heard that valve plans on supporting a limited format so entries fees and prizes seems likely. GCValentine fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Sep 3, 2018 |
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Sep 3, 2018 20:47
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I'm actually kind of excited about this game. Maybe it's just my teeneger self which draws in the memories of opening magic card packs. I have watched a few matches from the livestream, and it looks quite faster than i expected. I love the idea of the three lanes tough
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Sep 3, 2018 21:01
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:I'd like to borrow $200M
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Apparently this isn't going to have a ranked mode or any chat moderation at launch. They said they don't think people are going to be toxic in a 1v1 setting which is pretty naive.
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Sep 4, 2018 01:00
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Looks at the salty friend requests people get from Hearthstone matches Hmmmmmm
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Sep 4, 2018 01:11
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to be fair, their staff is probably stretched pretty thin with all the games they have coming out
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Sep 4, 2018 01:16
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TOOT BOOT posted:Apparently this isn't going to have a ranked mode or any chat moderation at launch. They said they don't think people are going to be toxic in a 1v1 setting which is pretty naive. Normally I'd rebuke this, but seeing as they have access to all the total DOTA2 logs... ...maybe the community has gotten better? We can only hope. The lack of Ranked MMR isn't a super big deal if they still have other modes. If they launch without anything vital (ideally their weekly tournaments they keep speaking of and maybe some draft format) I'm going to be VERY disappointed. But I have always felt that strict 'constructed' rank to be the most boring part of a card game.
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Sep 4, 2018 01:36
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boredsatellite posted:Looks at the salty friend requests people get from Hearthstone matches tbh that's like 1 in 100 games at least it was for me.
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Sep 4, 2018 02:26
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Updated the OP with a few videos (interview with Richard Gafield, BTS podcast, Reddit write up) on the RNG mechanics in the game.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:42
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Have they spoken at all about how they will implement draft/arena format? I've seen them mention drafts in several interviews I've skimmed through, but not much information. My friend told me that he thought he heard in one interview there will be no in game currency whatsoever, so he's under the impression you will have to pay for every draft you play in, with no option to earn free entries (or potential to go infinite). Is there any concrete information on this yet?
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Sep 5, 2018 23:33
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It's possible draft might come with an entry fee in addition to the packs, and that entry fee would allow for prize support. But it also sounds like they want to enable player-created formats like cube drafts, which presumably wouldn't require any further money once you've assembled your cube.
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Sep 6, 2018 00:54
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It's weird how boring most of the cards are given that this is a card game. I don't see where the depth is going to come from when cards are just a stat block and maybe a single line of text.
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Sep 6, 2018 06:18
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Some interesting videos I've watched on this game since PAX ended: BTS Artifact Podcast: Episode 1 - Hotbid, Lumi and Blaze go over their experience at PAX, as well talking about the game, what certain cards do, the decks available for play at PAX and then analyze two match videos at the end played by Twitch's Conrad Janzen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5EXe2NShEo Sunsfan vs EHOME.Linso (recently signed Artifact pro player for the legendary Dota Chinese org: EHOME) https://twitter.com/EHOMECN/status/1035465843457441793 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWjasxR07JA&t=254s Analysis video of this match by The Artificer's Guild youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vhYzkmUT0E E: IGN uploaded a new video with a full match played by Valve employees https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVUL48Wrnko The REAL Goobusters fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Sep 6, 2018 |
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Sep 6, 2018 06:34
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TOOT BOOT posted:It's weird how boring most of the cards are given that this is a card game. I don't see where the depth is going to come from when cards are just a stat block and maybe a single line of text. I mean we’ve only seen the starter decks so far. There’s supposed to be ~280 cards in the first set so we still haven’t seen most of the cards yet.
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Sep 6, 2018 09:54
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No need to sell him something he doesn't want. If he doesn't see the depth this is not for him clearly.
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Sep 6, 2018 10:05
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The REAL Goobusters posted:
I see IGN circumvented their bad playing by allowing experienced people do a game. Good quality and its pretty interesting how many of the units have voice lines
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Sep 6, 2018 12:10
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2 dollar card packs in a game that already costs 20 bucks and has no cardboard costs seems like a rough deal. Valve saying "oh these cards will DEFINITELY be deflationary" is a major red flag for me. I guess they really want to go after that breed of people who spend tons of money on stupid nerd poo poo simply because they think it will gain value, so basically the bitcoin crowd. If you want to know how that typically works out, then consider the current state of Magic the Gathering. MtG has been a stock market for nerds for a while now. A lot of the casual players are already gone (or stuck playing EDH and kitchen table), and thus WotC is committing more and more to selling cards to the investors who are buying boxes of cards for the sole purpose of storing them away so they may gain value. WotC cannot properly drive card prices down with cheap reprints anymore since the main market they care about (or one they have left) is the one that doesn't actually care about playing the game as much as having a hypothetically valuable collection of cards that they can hypothetically sell later or hypothetically brag about at their local LGS. Of course, no one actually sells their cards because their value can only go up!!! There's also a lot of really shady bullshit going around with dickheads buying cards out completely in an effort to drive their prices up for later resale. And also card stores opening packs, taking out the valuable rares and resealing said packs to sell to customers for later. Anyway, when you add card game secondary market autism to the already hosed up Steam Market with its money laundering and stuff, it leads me to conclude that Artifact will be the greatest exhibition of human greed, insanity and stupidity in the history of children's card games. So in other words, buy in early and you will definitely be rich later! Minorkos fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Sep 6, 2018 |
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Sep 6, 2018 12:15
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It does help that there is only 3 rarity types and you are guranteed 1 of the highest rarity in each card pack Don't think I've seen that model before in a card game and honestly it's pretty enticing to me
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Sep 6, 2018 14:02
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boredsatellite posted:It does help that there is only 3 rarity types and you are guranteed 1 of the highest rarity in each card pack Magic had the commons, uncommons, and guaranteed rare structure in packs over 20 years ago, with mythic only becoming a rarity tier later on. Pokemon probably did it too just as long ago but I don't remember. None of this is new though.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:14
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triple sulk posted:Magic had the commons, uncommons, and guaranteed rare structure in packs over 20 years ago, with mythic only becoming a rarity tier later on. Pokemon had foils to add another tier of rarity at launch
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Sep 6, 2018 14:17
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IcePhoenix posted:Pokemon had foils to add another tier of rarity at launch Sounds about right, just usually think about foils separately Insane how it too is so old at this point though
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Sep 6, 2018 14:23
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