|
Hasselblad posted:Is anyone having issues hearing the dialogue clearly? Dunno if it is our TV, Roku, or streaming in general. Maybe my hearing is gong. Most dialogue to me is coming across garbled mushmouth mumbling to whispering. Also yes, the dynamic range is poorly produced, or maybe optimized for a different sound system
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 02:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 22:07 |
|
|
Was looking forward to this season TBH, since I've noticed with recent shows that the 3rd season is usually the best since it's when the makers of the show really hit their stride and know exactly how poo poo should function, and having just watched the very first episode yyyup...seems that's true for this show too! Really loved the whole portrayal of the memorial since it highlighted the difference between those old enough to have grown up in the US during their childhood and the newer generation, for whom a collectivist society is all they've ever known.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 02:48
|
|
|
That was a solid season and probably the best season thus far. I knew they were likely going to have an analogue to the Charlottesville riot in this season because it's extremely timely and that still didn't stop me from getting a pit in my stomach at seeing young white kids scream "Blood and Soil" while engaging in state-sponsored violence. I hope next season utilizes Stephen Root more though. He's too good of an actor to use so sparingly.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 03:32
|
|
|
Vanderdeath posted:I knew they were likely going to have an analogue to the Charlottesville riot in this season because it's extremely timely and that still didn't stop me from getting a pit in my stomach at seeing young white kids scream "Blood and Soil" while engaging in state-sponsored violence. I'm slightly confused because the framing of this scene in the finale was very strange and makes me wonder what exactly (given Himmler's reference to kristallnacht) the violence was directed against. If it had been portrayed as like, a stupid America Style Sports Riot where it's drunk people goin nuts and having a good time while engaging in violence I would have understood, but as such the "targets" that receive the brunt of the riot violence as written are just random people on the street? Hasn't the American Reich been thoroughly pacified slash consolidated for... a decade?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 03:36
|
|
|
Gunshow Poophole posted:I'm slightly confused because the framing of this scene in the finale was very strange and makes me wonder what exactly (given Himmler's reference to kristallnacht) the violence was directed against. If it had been portrayed as like, a stupid America Style Sports Riot where it's drunk people goin nuts and having a good time while engaging in violence I would have understood, but as such the "targets" that receive the brunt of the riot violence as written are just random people on the street? Hasn't the American Reich been thoroughly pacified slash consolidated for... a decade? There was rebellious rioting as recent as the end of last season.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 03:46
|
|
|
Open Source Idiom posted:There was rebellious rioting as recent as the end of last season. OK but this isn't... the parallel still doesn't make sense because the established and understood order is that of the GNR. There's no threat to the Himmler Youth or whatever you'd like to call them. in fact and in their lived reality, their ideology is in control and wildly ascendant, so they needn't lash out against I guess a person on the street? The image and evocation of Charlottesville is bang on. The necessity of random violence absent an otherwise orgiastic experience in the streets doesn't land for me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 04:25
|
|
|
Gunshow Poophole posted:OK but this isn't... the parallel still doesn't make sense because the established and understood order is that of the GNR. There's no threat to the Himmler Youth or whatever you'd like to call them. in fact and in their lived reality, their ideology is in control and wildly ascendant, so they needn't lash out against I guess a person on the street? Part of the point of Jahr Null is to divorce the generation of people born during and after the war from the actions and the culture of Pre-War America. You have a large contingent of young people who have only ever known life in the Reich and the Reich under Himmler has tripled down on its grooming of the youth to cultivate future fascists. The riot is tied to the destruction of Lady Liberty precisely for that reason; the Hitler Youth in America/GNR has been poised to destroy anything distinctly American, even the generations before them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 05:09
|
|
|
yup I thought about it some more in context of the other vignettes around Thomas throughout and that's pretty spot on. This season was great. I just wish Juliana had a few more moments like her interaction with Joe at the trade delegation soirée that slot into a fuller spectrum of the narrative of her developing into a badass. The writing for her seems to waffle between extremes where it almost feels exploitative every time she just straight kills a person. most of the time she's sort of wandering from place to place wholly dependent on (male) characters to do everything and then all of a sudden, several times, she's Annie Oakley just straight up murdering dudes unbidden in times of duress. Yes it's obviously life or death in certain times, but... how about more subtle skills?. I dunno super minor complaint here mainly thinking aloud. I love Tagomi he rules so hard. Gunshow Poophole fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Oct 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 05:32
|
|
|
Vanderdeath posted:Part of the point of Jahr Null is to divorce the generation of people born during and after the war from the actions and the culture of Pre-War America. You have a large contingent of young people who have only ever known life in the Reich and the Reich under Himmler has tripled down on its grooming of the youth to cultivate future fascists. The riot is tied to the destruction of Lady Liberty precisely for that reason; the Hitler Youth in America/GNR has been poised to destroy anything distinctly American, even the generations before them. Yeah the riots were the young party member True Believers beating up older regular Americans who weren't as zealously committed to a new American Nazi state.. There's still a divide between your average (mostly older) Americans who follow the rules and keep their heads down but are not too enthusiastic about Nazism and the swastika armband-wearing Party members. I liked season three, it was pretty appropriate to the tone of the series and a bit amusing when we find out that Nazi superscience has built a machine to travel between parallel worlds and that's part of the cause of all this. Thomas' memorial ceremony made me really cringe, I'm pretty numb to violence and all the fascist imagery but holy poo poo watching those kids spontaneously rise and salute Thomas for being so devoted to Nazi eugenics ideology that he'd basically commit suicide was brutal. Himmler is likely correct that he needs to groom a generation of youth fanatically devoted to Nazism to keep things going, it's the scenes with kids doing Nazi stuff that really bothers me the most. Two things I didn't really like: John Smith gets less of a sympathetic treatment in this season but it still bugs me how the show paints him as a dutiful family man and patriot who's willing to put his family before ideology and deceive the Reich hierarchy to avoid nuclear war with Japan. He's a loving SS leader, presumably he's overseen the internment and execution of countless American Jews, racial minorities, etc. I don't like that the show gives him pretty favorable treatment and hasn't done much to paint just how evil he is as someone deeply involved in the American Holocaust which would've followed their defeat. I hope we learn more about his background, joining the SS, and rise to power. Films and posters: I think the idea that Frank's posters and Juliana showing the film to small groups of people is going to spark a revolution is pretty silly and far-fetched. Yes, they're going to offer a glimpse of hope, but making a big deal of how it's going to end fascism doesn't match with the brutality and total power the fascist governments have been wielding for 20 years in the show universe. I suspect that next season we'll see a collapse of the GNR when Himmler dies or is incapacitated and it's unclear who is the next designated Fuhrer. That seems the most plausible way for the GNR to start disintegrating, a power vacuum and infighting following Himmler's end. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Oct 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 05:47
|
|
|
They finally threw away Joe's stupid Nazi with the heart of gold shtick and let him act like a Nazi. Better late than never. As someone who hates his character, I even think they really gave him an overly gruesome death. Poor Frank. This show treated him like dog poo poo for 2 seasons. They finally gave him 3 decent episodes of character development this season before chopping his head off. It would have been cool to have seen Frank evolve as the propaganda mastermind behind the resistance. And after killing Frank, it seems that Kido has no purpose for the show anymore. I wonder who'll off him next season. mA fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Oct 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 09:46
|
|
|
(full season spoilers)mA posted:
I think that the show uses symmetry to balance its characters, with the actions of one character being reflected in the actions of another -- Joe is a parallel version of Frank; Werner's conspiracy plot was aligned with Tagomi's; Ed and Nicole have a number of parallels throughout their plots. When one of the pair dies, the other tends to either die or in some other way vanishes. It's not a strict parallel, but it's there and seems quite deliberate. So, basically what I'm saying is that I suspect Kido will exist for as long as Smith does, and remain a foil for the character. Though, specifically, I suspect Kido is getting close to some sort of breaking point and that's where his journey will be going from now on. He's a rigid spoke in a chaotic system, destined to go full Inspector Javert.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 10:13
|
|
|
I finished watching season 3 over the weekend, and wow. This is the first time I’ve worked on a show then subsequently lost myself in viewing it. That never happens, but I guess the story improvements worked! What I find incredibly interesting is I really only worked on the VFX shots in isolated context, so while I knew major beats across the season, I had no idea how they would tie together, and a lot of it kinda faked me out; The rally/bar mitzvah thing at the end of 6 was a huge surprise - I did a little work on the rally and assumed the context would be like the s2e10 volkshalle rally, but the interspersing of the bar mitzvah completely changed the emotional impact of the sequence. And man, the original trios reunion... that was genuinely touching, watching Ed this season has been a treat and I think he’s my favorite character. He’s literally the purest person in the series, the one person who genuinely believes in the good in others, but also has an entirely grounded perspective of their reality. His reaction to the film was moving as well - he knew it was real, and you can tell it confirms a lot of his internal doubts about his world. Also, I really enjoy the symmetry concept, OSI. That’s a neat take on the characters and one I hadn’t considered. I don’t actually know how long it’ll be before I can share cool bts stuff (normally it’s six months but it’s Amazon, so probably never lol), but the VFX house will probably be dropping some VFX breakdowns in the next few months, and some of the artists will probably have interviews with various publications. So far, you can check out an AV Club interview done with the VFX supe Lawson Deming, but that’s all I’m aware of.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 13:51
|
|
|
Agreed that I have no idea how showing people the films or making them woke with 60s banksy art is supposed to finally topple the fash. Like consciousness raising is certainly important, but showing people that other industrial powers can/did/could win ww2 is a whole different beast than trying another insurgency/rebellion against the peeps willing to do another genocide, this time with some flavor nukes. If anything I was thinking that letting the Nazis invade other worlds would be for the benefit of this universe's inhabitants, as it'd give them an industrial power that could plausibly coordinate resources with them and possibly launch a counter-invasion. If nothing else it seems like OTL would have way more bodies to throw in a meatgrinder against TTL given a longer war and all the following genocides.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 19:21
|
|
|
i want to live in Tagomi's house real bad
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2018 20:35
|
|
|
ThatBasqueGuy posted:Agreed that I have no idea how showing people the films or making them woke with 60s banksy art is supposed to finally topple the fash. Like consciousness raising is certainly important, but showing people that other industrial powers can/did/could win ww2 is a whole different beast than trying another insurgency/rebellion against the peeps willing to do another genocide, this time with some flavor nukes. If anything I was thinking that letting the Nazis invade other worlds would be for the benefit of this universe's inhabitants, as it'd give them an industrial power that could plausibly coordinate resources with them and possibly launch a counter-invasion. If nothing else it seems like OTL would have way more bodies to throw in a meatgrinder against TTL given a longer war and all the following genocides. The point of the posters isn't just to raise awareness or consciousness. (mid-ish season spoiler) They are to remind people that the fascists don't have complete control, resistance is not futile, even here in the heart of their empire we can still slip through their fingers and fight. They're to remind the subjugated that they aren't alone, that there are people on their side that are willing to stand with them. Also, I have to say, even I found myself thing "what the gently caress benefit could invading other timelines possibly have for this world's Nazis"... then I remembered, they're Nazis. Their entire culture is founded on war, and they've conquered the world. Of course they have to find a new enemy to fight, the profitability of that fight is just a lie that makes the perpetuation of fascism easier. Gunshow Poophole posted:i want to live in Tagomi's house real bad Fuckin Tagomi's (late season spoiler) takedown of Nazi Liquid Snake ruled so hard
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2018 00:09
|
|
|
Just finished up, S3 was much tighter than the other seasons and even the side plots felt like they had connections. Felt like Julianna is making her own decisions versus previous season when life was just happening to her. Chillgamesh posted:The point of the posters isn't just to raise awareness or consciousness. (mid-ish season spoiler) They are to remind people that the fascists don't have complete control, resistance is not futile, even here in the heart of their empire we can still slip through their fingers and fight. They're to remind the subjugated that they aren't alone, that there are people on their side that are willing to stand with them. Also, I have to say, even I found myself thing "what the gently caress benefit could invading other timelines possibly have for this world's Nazis"... then I remembered, they're Nazis. Their entire culture is founded on war, and they've conquered the world. Of course they have to find a new enemy to fight, the profitability of that fight is just a lie that makes the perpetuation of fascism easier. Just like the Nazi's are trying to erase American history the resistance art is looking to keep hope alive. Chillgamesh posted:Fuckin Tagomi's (late season spoiler) takedown of Nazi Liquid Snake ruled so hard Loved that scene, Himmler's handpicked boy gets dropped by an old man with a stick. And they dumped the body at their doorstep was bonus. I was at NY ComicCon and they said they were already back to filming S4, so hopefully they wait is not too long.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2018 02:05
|
|
|
I bailed on this midway through Season 1 because as much as I love the concept, I hated the writing and characters a lot that I just couldn't take it. Also some of the directing was really bad as well. The whole thing just felt more like a soap opera than an alt-reality sci fi show. Really wanted to like the show too. Did this show improve significantly and when? Is there a point where I can skip over some eps and can watch it confidently without missing much/
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2018 03:08
|
|
|
hellocruelworld posted:I bailed on this midway through Season 1 because as much as I love the concept, I hated the writing and characters a lot that I just couldn't take it. Also some of the directing was really bad as well. The whole thing just felt more like a soap opera than an alt-reality sci fi show. Really wanted to like the show too. Did this show improve significantly and when? Is there a point where I can skip over some eps and can watch it confidently without missing much/ I thought s2 pacing was a big improvement and s3 ups that again. Just plow through s1 or watch a recap video on their youtube channel.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2018 03:11
|
|
|
Chillgamesh posted:The point of the posters isn't just to raise awareness or consciousness. (mid-ish season spoiler) They are to remind people that the fascists don't have complete control, resistance is not futile, even here in the heart of their empire we can still slip through their fingers and fight. They're to remind the subjugated that they aren't alone, that there are people on their side that are willing to stand with them. Also, I have to say, even I found myself thing "what the gently caress benefit could invading other timelines possibly have for this world's Nazis"... then I remembered, they're Nazis. Their entire culture is founded on war, and they've conquered the world. Of course they have to find a new enemy to fight, the profitability of that fight is just a lie that makes the perpetuation of fascism easier. I agree with all your points, though I don't think they did a good job at giving Juliana and Wyatt convincing narratives about why others should join them in their sabotage mission. After everyone turned them down, they had to resort to recruiting Wyatt's friends, but even then I don't think they made a convincing argument.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2018 04:30
|
|
|
hellocruelworld posted:I bailed on this midway through Season 1 because as much as I love the concept, I hated the writing and characters a lot that I just couldn't take it. Also some of the directing was really bad as well. The whole thing just felt more like a soap opera than an alt-reality sci fi show. Really wanted to like the show too. Did this show improve significantly and when? Is there a point where I can skip over some eps and can watch it confidently without missing much/ Season 2 is a lot better. Just watch all of S1, it ins't too long and if you do skip just watch the last two episodes of S1 then go onto S2.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2018 07:51
|
|
|
Killing off her two horrible love interests was the best choice this season made. This was the best season and I'm looking forward to season 4.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2018 08:07
|
|
|
Having just watched it to the end, I concur with the above really. I can even dig the Nazi alternate reality machine which might've worked, but where the Nazis completely delude themselves into thinking that an army could invade other universes through it since anyone that tries to go through, that already exists in that parallel universe, just disintegrates into a bloody pulp and there's no scientific instrumentation that could track every single individual's alive/dead status over that many universes I felt like that was a pretty funny monkey paw condition and makes me wonder how they'll try to work around it in S4.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2018 08:21
|
|
|
Come to think of it I do know of a post ww2 superpower that has likely been killed off in this reality that would really like to shoot some fascists and due to the way traveling works would likely be able to just send an entire army trough a portal like that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBOD8qeCBuc
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2018 08:52
|
|
|
WTF there’s a season 3? Season 2 ended it nearish the book. Not sure where this has left to go.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2018 12:13
|
|
|
DropsySufferer posted:WTF there’s a season 3? Season 2 ended it nearish the book. Not sure where this has left to go. It takes some cues from the planned sequel that PKD left notes about years ago.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2018 16:33
|
|
|
DropsySufferer posted:WTF there’s a season 3? Season 2 ended it nearish the book. Not sure where this has left to go. And season 4 is currently filming.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2018 17:14
|
|
|
DropsySufferer posted:WTF there’s a season 3? Season 2 ended it nearish the book. Not sure where this has left to go. been a while since I read it, but the book basically had... infinite Wheres to go because it didn't really conclude. they took the IP and put it in the hands of some (pretty talented) writers and said go nuts!
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2018 17:28
|
|
|
Wasn't the original book a story about mental illness? Like this was all imagined in some schizophrenic brain.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 02:44
|
|
|
Koirhor posted:Wasn't the original book a story about mental illness? Like this was all imagined in some schizophrenic brain. This describes a rather large chunk of PKD’s writing, to be fair.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 04:32
|
|
|
Ubiquitous_ posted:This describes a rather large chunk of PKD�s writing, to be fair.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 04:44
|
|
|
Koirhor posted:Wasn't the original book a story about mental illness? Like this was all imagined in some schizophrenic brain. The I Ching reference is an actual self insert, in that he did a lot of drugs and consulted the yarrow stalks to determine which way the story would go at certain junctures which of course resulted in a scattered nonsensical narrative structure
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 05:04
|
|
|
tomapot posted:Loved that scene, Himmler's handpicked boy gets dropped by an old man with a stick. And they dumped the body at their doorstep was bonus. Yeah, I'd thought his doing the martial arts stuff and explaining it to Watanabe earlier was just flexin', what a great payoff. And dumping the body in front of the Nazi embassy was just a perfect "f you". Himmler insisting they let the youths riot, then getting cut down by a sniper was also perfect. Lotta satisfaction towards the end of the season. I'm also digging Childen's transition into a decent person.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 22:23
|
|
|
My hometown, Savannah, GA, got a shout out! Oh, wait...
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 01:57
|
|
|
tomapot posted:Loved that scene, Himmler's handpicked boy gets dropped by an old man with a stick. And they dumped the body at their doorstep was bonus. I have zero memory of this.  Which episode and time (roughly) did this happen at?
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 03:20
|
|
|
Season spoilers:Dessel posted:I have zero memory of this. It happened in the same episode. They drove up to the same gate/embassy building that Juliana pleaded for asylum at and pushed the corpse out of the van into the street and sped off. Random thoughts on this season: - I liked it a lot. Every part of the series was engaging, although some more than the others. The only "useless" bits I found were basically all the scenes with that one nazi propaganda woman. Like seriously what was even the point of her story? She did nothing to advance any plot points, she had no self-agency and instead was just another character following orders from higher up. That itself isn't a problem per-say, but there was absolutely no character development for her that made me actually care about her story vs just taking it at face value as "she's here to work for nazis, I guess." I mean it felt like the entire point of her being in this story was just so the writers and directors and producers can say "look how progressive we are, including lesbians in our show" which was totally unneeded, since they included two gay men. I'm not saying that you can only have one or the other, but the difference between her and her girlfriend vs Ed and his boyfriend is that we actually give a drat about Ed because his character actually has a story. meltdown inc: - One thing that I really didn't like is how they are trying to rehabilitate the fuckhead nazi John fuckhead Smith. In light of today's climate where we literally have nazis marching with tiki torches yelling blood and soil and "jews will not replace us" just like in the show I think it's absolutely loving disgusting that the show writers, the directors, the producers, everybody who was involved with the project period, signed off on making John fuckyou Smith the character he is. The "oh I'm only a Nazi because I did what I had to do to keep my family safe. I'm a good family man, really." well what the gently caress about the millions of people his character would have gassed, murdered, mutilated? gently caress the show runners for allowing this and gently caress Bezos for ultimately giving the okay for this. John loving Smith the character does not deserve any sympathy whatsoever. gently caress him, gently caress nazis, gently caress nazis. meltdown over. Question about the last conversation in the last episode: The Man in the High Castle said that people can only travel to other worlds if they didn't exist in that world. He's 100% wrong right? The Trade Minister was able to travel to "our" (I presume) world and in it his character also existed. Trudy-b also existed. Juliana-b also existed though Trudy-b said she died in her world. Did he instead mean that people can only travel into other worlds, if they are already dead in them? That would make more sense since Trudy-b only showed up after Trudy-a died, and I think I remember when the TM traveled his family was like "look who decided to show up" and "where the gently caress have you been." I don't remember it exactly, but I thought the scene suggested he was like an alcoholic or something, so maybe he already died and nobody knew about it? Does the book give any information about this? Or is it just that maybe the TM went into Universe B, while Trudy etc are from Universe C and so forth? Something I didn't really like was how sex was portrayed among the Japanese men. Like, if Kido was a white man then his character would have been all over that woman. But no, he's Japanese, and you know those Asians, they're always so reserved! Last thing: what exactly is today's equivalent of "Trade Minister" and "Chief Inspector" and why do they wield so much power? My take is that TM is like the Secretary of Commerce and Chief Inspector is like… head of the Secret Service? I can understand why the Chief Inspector in that case would wield so much power and autonomy, but the secretary of commerce and trade? Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Oct 11, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 06:55
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:- One thing that I really didn't like is how they are trying to rehabilitate the fuckhead nazi John fuckhead Smith. In light of today's climate where we literally have nazis marching with tiki torches yelling blood and soil and "jews will not replace us" just like in the show I think it's absolutely loving disgusting that the show writers, the directors, the producers, everybody who was involved with the project period, signed off on making John fuckyou Smith the character he is. The "oh I'm only a Nazi because I did what I had to do to keep my family safe. I'm a good family man, really." well what the gently caress about the millions of people his character would have gassed, murdered, mutilated? gently caress the show runners for allowing this and gently caress Bezos for ultimately giving the okay for this. John loving Smith the character does not deserve any sympathy whatsoever. gently caress him, gently caress nazis, gently caress nazis. Completely agree with this take. The absolute worst part about Smith is that the show seems to be building to a redemption arc based entirely on the fact that he’s growing alienated from the Nazis because they killed his son, and his attraction to other realities where he was just a regular privileged American. If the only time you hate Nazis is when they murder your family members I have real hard time feeling sympathy for you, and the show seems so focused on wanting me to actually like him. It’s not even like Smith is just some random dude who joined the Nazis to conform either, he opted to rise to become the chief Nazi in the entire country.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 07:08
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:Question about the last conversation in the last episode: The Man in the High Castle said that people can only travel to other worlds if they didn't exist in that world. He's 100% wrong right? The Trade Minister was able to travel to "our" (I presume) world and in it his character also existed. Trudy-b also existed. Juliana-b also existed though Trudy-b said she died in her world. Did he instead mean that people can only travel into other worlds, if they are already dead in them? That would make more sense since Trudy-b only showed up after Trudy-a died, and I think I remember when the TM traveled his family was like "look who decided to show up" and "where the gently caress have you been." I don't remember it exactly, but I thought the scene suggested he was like an alcoholic or something, so maybe he already died and nobody knew about it? Does the book give any information about this? Or is it just that maybe the TM went into Universe B, while Trudy etc are from Universe C and so forth?
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 07:11
|
|
|
Barlow posted:Completely agree with this take. The absolute worst part about Smith is that the show seems to be building to a redemption arc based entirely on the fact that he’s growing alienated from the Nazis because they killed his son, and his attraction to other realities where he was just a regular privileged American. If the only time you hate Nazis is when they murder your family members I have real hard time feeling sympathy for you, and the show seems so focused on wanting me to actually like him. It’s not even like Smith is just some random dude who joined the Nazis to conform either, he opted to rise to become the chief Nazi in the entire country. Yeah, it's one thing to shut up and keep your head down and do what you're told else you watch your family chopped into pieces right in front of you before getting chopped up yourself, but it's another thing to do that and aspire to rise up in power. The show laid out the groundwork to get him to be forgiven, giving him and his wife lines like "I didn't choose this" and "I literally have no choice Helen." If his character was shown sympathetic from the get go, like it was made obvious while his son was still alive that he only did the disgusting things he did to protect his family and actually hated everything about it, then it might be acceptable to redeem his character if it involved him sacrificing himself in the end, but his character from the get-go was portrayed as I LOVE NAZIS and only after they wronged him did he start having second thoughts. e: Something I wondered about watching this show, in these alternate histories where the Nazis won and Hitler died naturally, would it still be Heil Hitler or would it be Heil Whoever? I guess I'm wondering if the name Hitler would eventually be treated like a title, like Caesar? e2: Gunshow Poophole posted:I'm slightly confused because the framing of this scene in the finale was very strange and makes me wonder what exactly (given Himmler's reference to kristallnacht) the violence was directed against. If it had been portrayed as like, a stupid America Style Sports Riot where it's drunk people goin nuts and having a good time while engaging in violence I would have understood, but as such the "targets" that receive the brunt of the riot violence as written are just random people on the street? Hasn't the American Reich been thoroughly pacified slash consolidated for... a decade? My take on this is that the point was not to direct anger or anything towards anyone in particular, but basically it's a fear tactic. By the time the show takes place it seems like Nazi ideology has already been fully entrenched into American society, and especially among the youth born after the war. They already controlled everything so it wasn't about grabbing more power, because there wasn't anymore to grab. Himmler allowing it to happen sends a message to the world: I am in control, these are my people, they are devoted to me, and there is no hope. It's a message to all Nazis everywhere that you don't need to be afraid to come out, and a message to non-Nazis that life as you know it is truly over and will never return to normal. The people who were beaten up are not going to report it to the police because it was sanctioned by them. The people who had their stores looted aren't going to report it because it was sanctioned by them. There is no more due process and you need to shut up and take it or else. Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Oct 11, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 07:20
|
|
|
I've been leisurely watching this new season. I'm wrapping up episode 5 right now. I have to say that while i still really dig a lot about the show, there is something kind of worse about this season compared to S1 and S2 so far. The drama and conflicts are a lot less organic and natural, it's reaching soap-opera levels of nonsense at times. I kind of liked that the show kind of took itself seriously and I'm noticing that some campy elements are creeping in and it's not working for me. I'm not so put off im gonna stop watching but that's my main observation so far.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 08:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 22:07 |
|
|
I was a little concerned about a John Smith 'redemption arc' trying to make me feel sorry for him, but the last episode where his wife straight up tells him, she was running from him (because he lied to her about the checkup on their daughter) as well as him shooting the main protagonist makes me think that S4 won't really see him traverse that far down this lane. Him trying to get his family back will likely be anything but a 'redemption arc' and more like 'control-freak that loses them for good because of it'. That said, I for one appreciate the show demonstrating that even, and I quote the previous season, 'the most evil sunovabitch in the US' gets sickened when his dead son is turned into propaganda-fuel. It doesn't make me pity him one bit more, but same as with Kido I find him and Smith to be a pretty good representation of what happens to men when they willingly let themselves be twisted by a couple of very brutal collectivist-oriented societies and how their families suffer for it. I'd much prefer that portrayal than having them be boring, cutout cartoon villains without any complexity whatsoever. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Oct 11, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 16:49
|
|