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redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

So, rF/rC are getting moved to "1 pip is near immunity" or "maximum of 25% resistance"

because I'm betting it's the latter and :laffo:.

Also, where's the most up to date online Gooncrawl build?

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redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

ZeeToo posted:

There is, indeed, a 0.23 tournament on now. I'm even running a team and sort of half-heartedly trying to put a win or two on the board, because, heck, I still like trying to be competitive.

If you have space, I'll join in and give you a bunch of VS 15-runers.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

The dispersal traps can be triggered by monsters multiple times. I barely cleared Tomb because of it, although that was also my fault for doing the "Bring the Orb to Tomb and get the rune" challenge. It's almost as asinine as the shadow creature traps from a few versions ago.

DCSS is a finished game at this point, there's no going back to the good ol' days. Play Gooncrawl if you want a fun and challenging game.

Play 0.23 only if you solemnly swear to only roll VS of Gozag so you can clear Pandemonium on one pip of resistances, the way Duvessa intended.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

ZeeToo posted:

Sure. Use ZeeToo as team captain and let me know your name.

In as rednecknazgul.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

gishou posted:

Does anyone know if - tele items work on dispersal traps?

I used to try to keep at least one in case the zot5 traps were both permanent tele traps but I can not remember if they work for dispersal.

In theory, they should prevent you from being blinked.

In practice, they're still going to blink everything around you and disrupt your targeting priorities.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

ZeeToo posted:

I've got you added, and you haven't shown up, and I gave it some time, and I still don't see you, so... :shrug:

Doublecheck that your 0.23 RC file says this as its first line:

# TEAMCAPTAIN ZeeToo

I threw it in there, I don't know why it's not showing up.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Poison/Hexes, create a Leda's Liquification-esque pool at a targeted area. Enemies within the pool are slowed and take damage each turn, with a chance of poison/corrode.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Hooplah posted:

I guess I've never thought about it - is rCorr very common among enemies seen in a typical 3-runer? Corrosion seems like an obvious effect for high level poison spells.

Main fork of Crawl has always been against putting Acid into the Poison Magic school. In their view, Poison Magic is an early game tool that is supposed to fall off and adding acid damage options would give the school longevity.

Acid's not very well resisted outside of Slime but there's very little sources of it on the player side: All I can think of are one part of Makhleb's Lesser Destruction, wands of acid, yellow draconian breath, acid bite mutation, and I think there's an unrandart bow with an acid brand.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Prism posted:

Punk, it's a fustibalus. Does 2d4 acid damage on top of normal sling damage and corrodes.

A nice find for slingers.

Hellcrawl turned it into a shortbow and it's crazy strong there.

It also occurs to me that Poison could also get a bit of an upgrade by adding in Curare/Frenzy effects.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Level 5 seems like a good point for a single-target curare spell: You're still limited by rPois, you're only hitting one thing at a time, and you're probably not going to kill any big threats with one shot of curare.

If it needs further balancing, make it require a poisoned target.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Have some dumb ideas that will be impossible to code.

1. You start with a random weapon, random defense (including Stealth), and two random magic skills automatically training. These are your other head's skills and they advance like a Gnoll. You may not untrain them.
2. If confused or mesmerized, your other head takes control and acts like an intelligent AI, using consumables/spells/invocations. You regain control when the status ends.
3. You get an extra spell slot per level, but your other head will attempt to memorize a random spell that you could cast (under a certain failure threshold) when you pick up a spellbook. It will prioritize the other head's chosen skills if possible.
4. You may worship any god. You will still incur any penance or wrath for the actions of your other head. Your other head does not know or care about god conducts, i.e, it will chug a potion of haste while you worship Chei, it will happily learn Necromancy while worshipping TSO, and Trog will happily get mad at you for existing.

redneck nazgul fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Apr 3, 2019

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Araganzar posted:

But no one in their right mind is ever going to use it, even on a high HP race.

I would throw that on in a heartbeat if I was doing extended on a Vine Stalker of Gozag. Torment is one of the few things that can actually threaten a well geared character and removing that makes Pan/Hell/Tomb/Zigs much more tolerable.

Being able to clear Tomb 3 without spending upwards of 30000 gold in potions would be nice.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

I have a Gooncrawl run where I'm carving my way through extended as a Vine Stalker with the Gong Shield and Singing Sword. 3/4 Hell branches are cleared.

I cannot wait to see how nasty Tomb's death curses are going to be when the entire level is both pissed and dying to the sonic wave effect.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

I splatted my Vine Stalker Noise Knight on floor 25 of my second ziggurat.

Hubris in a Tartarus-themed floor with seven silent spectres. :smith:

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Shady Amish Terror posted:

Having beaten my head on this puzzle a few times, I don't know if there's a truly Zig-proof loadout; Mummy floors, spider floors, and as you've seen, undead/hell/pan floors can always potentially generate some combination of units that you just plain need at least a little luck in overcoming, and the problem becomes more severe the deeper you go into further zigs.

Multiple areas of silence OR sustained terrible RNG where Gozag refuses to offer heal wounds without berserk are the only things that would kill that character.

Gozag is currently way stronger than old school Nemelex/Pakellas. He breaks the concept of limited resources.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Hooplah posted:

Just got nightstalker 2 on my Ds skald at xl 4, and found a very early dith altar. Currently pumping axes. What do you guys think? I'm not sure if nightstalker and dith actually have strong synergy, or if they're mostly accomplishing similar things in different ways.

Nightstalker reduces visible sight range (which is Very Good because things can't hit you if they aren't in your sight range) and provides a sizable Stealth boost.

Dithmenos' umbra provides a sizable Stealth boost and gives enemies in the umbra a hit penalty (unless they meet certain requirements).

I'd grab a branded dagger and throw some points into that because you're going to be a stabbing machine, especially once you get Shadow Step up and running. Save the axe for groups/anything that lives through a stab.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Arivia posted:

Okay, need some feedback again. Here's where I'm at after clearing Elf, Crypt, and Zot: https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/Arivia/Arivia.txt

I'm wondering if I should poke my head into extended with this character. I feel pretty beefy (OoFs have not been a problem, ancient liches sometimes land spells that hurt), and I'm thinking this might be a good opportunity to get my feet wet in extended by doing maybe Abyss or Tomb or something?

e: And if I do extended I'm not sure if I should hybridize. I'm guessing I should go dig a murderhole somewhere and switch from Oka to Makhleb, though.

You have extended-quality gear right there.

I'd go Slime -> Abyss -> Pan -> Hell -> Tomb -> Zig (if you're feeling ballsy), in that order.

As far as hybridization goes, I'd start with getting your permabuffs on: Song of Slaying, Regeneration, Repel/Deflect Missiles.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Arivia posted:

Okay, so what's the order of priorities?

Get out of Zot, then switch to Makhleb, and work on invocations/the spellcasting/spell schools for permabuffs? Then do Slime after the wrath has timed out?

e: Do I wait out wrath, or do I have to clear out poo poo to get it to time out?

Do Slime with Okawaru, use Abyss/Pan to get Makhleb's piety up since infinite spawns = infinite piety.

You could also go Gozag and use Abyss/Pan/Hell as an infinite money generator for all the consumables.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Araganzar posted:

Fencer's gloves weren't all that great, I had crap EV but even on an EV character I can't see why they are just +0. I guess people made some abusive builds around riposte? I mean at +2 or +3 would they be more overpowered than Assassin Boots or Gauntlets of War?

It could probably be made +2 without too much issue, honestly. Riposte can get crazy depending on your weapon type, but if you're in a situation where you can make good use of riposte while dealing with multiple enemies surrounding you, you don't need it.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

I am sad that Okawaru's ammo returning doesn't work with the Damnation crossbow.

Probably for the best, especially because you can fire it at the ground with . to avoid blowing yourself up with it.

edit: if you don't like wear-IDing things/curses, go play Hellcrawl.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

I feel like you want the cursed brands to have some potential upside, simply because there should be some niche cases that can use a cursed weapon to their benefit.

Alternatively, keep the current brands but have cursed versions apply some sort of malus/debuff to the wielder:

Cursed freezing prevents potion drinking ala Ozocubu's Refridgeration, cursed flaming has a chance to explode in a fireball on hit, cursed speed has a chance to haste the target on hit, and so on.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

someone awful. posted:

these are all insanely dangerous and i would absolutely never, ever, ever wield-ID a weapon without remove curse around again if they were the case

which i guess might be the behavior you want to encourage?

I don't know about the coding feasibility of "new brands" or "cursed things work like this", but I feel like there's enough design space to come up with "potentially useful but deadly enough that you don't want to use it unless you're feeling lucky" solutions. I view it like eating the purple: Not optimal by any stretch of the means, but can pay off in a gamble. If it's not worth it from the developer standpoint, so be it.

I'd much rather gamble on "okay, this +3 dagger has a non-zero chance to explode on me if I hit something with it, let's see if I can find remove curse before it kills me" as opposed to "oops, I wield-ID'd a -3 short sword, time to flail ineffectively until I find remove curse".

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Gorelab posted:

Also it's been a long time since I've played, after getting the Swamp rune what all should I do before going into the Spider Nest?

rPois is highly recommended. rCorr, Reflect, and see invisible are also useful but not as important.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

You have Ozocubu's Armour and Deflect Missiles available to memorize. Start putting some points into Charms and get those both up and running because you're in Lair with 5 AC.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

now make damnation not consume the bolt on firing :getin:

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

the +0 cloak of Disappointment (rN+)

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

characters aren't real until they join Gozag's pyramid scheme

code:
25037029 rednecknazgul the Cloud Mage (level 27, 159/159 HPs)
             Began as a Vine Stalker Archaeologist on May 6, 2019.
             Was an Initiate of Gozag.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes!
             
             The game lasted 02:25:03 (60032 turns).

rednecknazgul the Cloud Mage (VSAc)                Turns: 60032, Time: 02:25:03

Health: 159/159    AC: 37    Str: 25    XL:     27
Magic:  55/57      EV: 20    Int: 20    God:    Gozag
Gold:   18496      SH: 26    Dex: 15    Spells: 45/71 levels left

rFire    + + +     SeeInvis +   e - +8 mithril axe "Arga" {speed, MR+}
rCold    + + +     Gourm    .   D - +5 shield {reflect}
rNeg     + + +     Faith    .   n - +10 plate armour "Libios" {Int+6}
rPois    +         Spirit   +   h - -2 hat of the Alchemist {rElec rPois rF+ rC+ rN+ MR+ rMut rCorr}
rElec    +         Reflect  +   y - scarf {rC+ rF+}
rCorr    +         Harm     .   H - +3 pair of gauntlets of War {Slay+5}
rMut     +                      l - +2 pair of boots {Fly}
MR       +++++                  u - amulet "Rilips" {Reflect rC+ MP+9 SH+4}
Stlth    ..........             v - ring of Aneujuof {rF+ rN+ MR+ MP+9}
HPRegen  2.16/turn              a - ring of Ryfuexus {rPois rN+ SInv}
MPRegen  0.35/turn

@: flying, slightly contaminated, regenerating, studying Axes, deflect missiles
A: fangs 3, regeneration 2, magic shield, antimagic bite, no device heal 3, rot
immunity
0: Orb of Zot
}: 15/15 runes: decaying, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian, icy, bone,
abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark, gossamer
a: Release Permanent Buffs, Potion Petition, Call Merchant, Bribe Branch,
Renounce Religion, Stop Flying
Just barely under 60000 turns. I definitely could have saved a lot of time if I didn't have a phobia of going into Tomb with less than 20000 gold for potion petitioning.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Captainsalami posted:

So I haven't played or won in ages. Since I got the fencers gloves in my box what weapon type should I go?

Short answer: A non-Long Blade.

Long answer: Long Blades come with riposte by default, I don't think they stack, so using a Long Blade (that isn't a game winning one by default) is counterproductive. Ripostes can trigger weapon effects, so something nifty (Arc Blade, distortion, vampirism) can trigger really quick if you're surrounded. Make sure you have a bit of EV, since riposte only triggers on dodging a hit, not blocking or just armor tanking it.

Comedy answer: Grab an amulet of the acrobat and the dark maul. Don't intentionally swing at people. The dark maul is slow but ripostes are instant.

edit: if the gloves and the sword stack, I'm going to feel real dumb every time I went "I don't need those gloves, I have a long blade".

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Araganzar posted:

You really made up a lot of time in extended though, you got to Lair pretty slowly compared to your end turns and also had to back track to slime. Decent run for the server overall, actually.

Prepare to feel retroactively dumb, because they stack. 66% instead of 33%. Used to be 100/50. Maybe it still should be.

I think part of that is going in with the standard route I usually follow and then realizing "Wait, I could do this way faster". My usual route is a lot of backtracking and grossly underestimating my actual equipment.

And wow, I feel really dumb. Reaaaaally dumb, especially all the times I had both Singing Sword and Fencing Gloves.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Einwand posted:

I wonder what the "best" start for a 15 rune high score would be, I'd guess an archeologist getting a singing sword from the box would be extremely far up there.

Singing Sword
Arga or Arc Blade
Zephyr or Penetrator
Elemental Staff

in that order, I think. Zephyr and Penetrator are arguable just because you're required to go Okawaru for the first chunk of the game in order to have a good ammo supply. Elemental Staff falls behind in the damage department but you're covering so many resists and defenses that I feel obligated to mention it.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

icantfindaname posted:

Do you basically have to take Makhleb as a melee deep dwarf? I tried a run with Trog and I found you had to be very sparing with the healing ability to conserve piety so you don’t miss out on gifts. Also can’t really use Trogbros for the same reason. And so outside of Trog there’s really no other option but Makhleb or Necromancy? It also sucks that the axe aptitude is just 1, wasn’t it higher in the past?

*yells "Gozag!" from under a mountain of gold and chugging five potions a turn from petition abuse*

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Araganzar posted:

fr: add lawn darts, work like regular darts but land on target square 3 turns after being thrown. chance based on dex for dart to land in an adjacent tile instead.

should add a movement debuff and bleeding damage if the lawn dart hits something

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

bring back Twist

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Araganzar posted:

Holy mcballs I need to do something about Morg. They can't all be winners, looking at you laj of order and your rMut, but seriously.

Morg should cast Haunt or Grasp on hit.

Or evocable Necromutation.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

PMush Perfect posted:

Just finished clearing out the lungs. Do I take the win or do I poke my head into a zig for the first time. Anything I should know if I do?

A: Hubris will kill you.
B: Water nymphs are surprisingly deadly with their smite-targeting water attack. It does bonus damage if you're above water and they spawn it. A room full of them will hurt.
C: Silent specters are usually a very good thing to prioritize, especially if you have some javelins of penetration or something non-spell or invocation to hit them. They're usually tucked away behind seven Hell Sentinels.
D: Hubris will kill you.
E: Pan Lords can use both Silence and Singularity. I lost a VS with 50 AC/30 EV/30 SH, full resists in everything including Torment and rMut to that combination, which leads to point F.
F: Hubris will kill you.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Vine Stalkers are real good.
Gyre and Gimble are real good.
Crown of Eternal Torment is real good.
Singularity is real good.
Tornado is real good.

https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/rednecknazgul/morgue-rednecknazgul-20190525-051251.txt

Long story short, cleared 7 zigs, maxed all of the skills, undoubtedly could have kept going but :effort:.

High point was sitting on the entrance stairs on floor 27 of the seventh Zig, alternating between Singularity and Tornado to clear out over fifty Pan Lords.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Yeah, I burst out laughing when I saw that in the victory screen.

The game probably choked somewhere on generating 150+ pan lord names.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Can we make Damnation not mulch the ammunition? :allears:

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

icantfindaname posted:

I finally got a statue form octopode off the ground with Gozag, now I'm wondering if it's worth it to switch to another god for extended? Should I spend all my Gozag gold on shops or can I use it to bribe hell branches?

I'm hugely OP because I accidentally went into the depths zig and did 20 levels of it

https://pastebin.com/yrFLVL1y

You can bribe branches, sure.

If your resists/damage/defenses are all good, save up for bribing branches or infinite consumables via petition.

edit: this is a pretty good "Reasons to play Gozag" morgue file

redneck nazgul fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jul 20, 2019

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redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

Floodkiller posted:

Changed permabuffs: Instead of just spell level, permabuffs will now reserved based on the total spell levels reserved, your Int, and your Dex.

Your total spell levels reserved will be multipled by (50 - Int) / 10 or starting at 5.0 (at 0 Int) and reduced by 0.1 per point of Int, rounded down to the nearest whole number. After that, the modified total is reduced by your Dex. If you reduce it to 0 or higher, it defaults to a floor of 1 MP. This will make it still pretty easy to reserve 1-2 low-medium permabuffs without being a focused spellcaster, but you will need to buff your Int or Dex if you want to reserve more. If someone wants to rip this all out and replace it with a spell success based version, be my guest and I'll change it to that instead.

This shouldn't break save games, so let me know if it does. Your MP total won't change to the modified version until whenever your max MP (or HP as a Djinni) is calculated again. I'm going to work on getting some documentation in-game somewhere for this, then move on to other stuff.

Edit: It's in the manual now, and I fixed some other stuff I found with it so it should actually work as advertised.

Breaks my current game with a VSAc, probably due to having a bunch of permabuffs already on.

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