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mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



There will be at least one more beta for OPNG, likely happening this afternoon (US time). Also, it looks like the OPNG points issue is finally getting sorted out: they will be scaled to 20X compared to CPU points, to account for the vastly shorter runtimes. I'm in the "who cares; we're doing science" camp on this, but there has been a vocal "why am i not being awarded points" camp as well, all the way through the series of betas.

I admit that I've been confused at the amount of noise people have made about this. I know that people enjoy the gamification aspect (Exhibit A: the title of this thread), but points are the single least useful metric there is. Pretty much everyone awards badges based on runtime, and WCG's points are particularly meaningless, being scaled approximately 7X from every other BOINC project in existence, so you can't even use them to talk about cross-project performance without doing math.

Edit: This ended up not being done as a separate beta run, but just as a new batch of WUs for the existing run. Currently running are batches of WUs which have been generated from already complete CPU WUs, to ensure that the results are approximately identical.

I'm personally happy about this, because I have unbroken my AMD cards by installing the OpenCL portions of the AMDGPU-PRO drivers on them -- this being OCL 1.2 compliant, in contrast to the Mesa OCL driver. I didn't want the hassle, but my desire to crunch more science won out after a half-day of arguing with myself about it. I've got a really simple bash script that I'd be happy to share in the incredibly unlikely event that anyone else has also had this problem.

Edit 2: Really interesting post from a WCG admin on how they build and "score" WUs for this project:

quote:

For a CPU work unit, we estimate they can run X jobs based on what each job has inside of it. This is based off how many atoms are in a given ligand.

( 0.0000000122 * Atoms^2 + 0.0000000751 * Atoms + 0.0000105946 ) * ga_num_evals * ga_run = how long we estimate it'll take for an average cpu.

Each job has a different number of atoms and structure, which changes the equation by evals being different and higher generally with more atoms in a ligand. This is 100% just an estimate but gets us a pretty good average runtime on similar processors.

When a work unit is created, we package multiple jobs together or split them up based on how difficult they are. We try to target say 3 hours per CPU work unit. For the GPU version, we create them with 20 times the difficulty as CPU version. These are split the exact same way, thus they get 20 times more points because they were originally created 20 times harder.

If we ran one of the GPU work units on CPU, it would on average take them 60 hours to complete the same task.
We also learned today that OPN WUs "short circuit", in much the same way as how a chain of 'or' statements short-circuit by halting evaluation as soon as a single true value is found: when OPN(G) WUs find a good match on a ligand (based on some threshold), they halt work and declare themselves complete rather than exhaustively testing all possible values.

mdxi fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Mar 31, 2021

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mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



WGC OPNG progress is moving really fast now, after a glacially slow bring-up, and cautious early beta period. From one of the admins this afternoon, after yet another batch of beta WUs:

quote:

We are having some virtual high fives here in communications with the researchers. They have some additional checks they want to look at, but currently we are getting really good results and things look awesome.

With this latest beta batch, I have changed the assimilator to be production ready with how it packages results for the researchers.

So next steps in my mind are this:

1. Eat pizza for lunch
2. Send additional results back to researchers for validation (tomorrow)
3. Await final thumbs up from researchers (Hopefully we'll have this by Friday)
4. Build batches and upload 7.28 to opng (Tomorrow)
5. Perform other final checklists (ongoing)
6. Have go/no go conversation with the researchers (TBD)
Then, a later update, regarding a release of WUs later tonight:

quote:

I plan on adding 10 batches just to make sure the points and everything match what I'm expecting to see when we go live during production. As far as I can tell, it is, but to be 100% sure instead of 99%, I'm running these 10 extra batches. These are going to be the last 10 batches for beta as I do not plan on running any more.
So if this set looks good, OPNG beta is in the bag.

Vir
Dec 14, 2007

Does it tickle when your Body Thetans flap their wings, eh Beatrice?


Will this allow MacOS and ARM Linux users to use GPUs for Open Pandemics?

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



Vir posted:

Will this allow MacOS and ARM Linux users to use GPUs for Open Pandemics?

There is no Mali GPU support. Nvidia, AMD, and Intel only.

People have reported both success and failure for OPNG WUs on Macbooks, so it's available -- at least for Intel GPUs. Didn't find anyone crunching on a desktop Mac in my quick search of the forums.

Vir
Dec 14, 2007

Does it tickle when your Body Thetans flap their wings, eh Beatrice?


There are some old Mac Pros with discrete AMD GPUs in them, and even some from Nvidia before that, but Folding@Home doesn't support any of them because there was a bug in OpenCL for MacOS back when it was more worthwhile, and MacOS has deprecated OpenCL and replaced it with Apple's own Metal API.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




Curiously, Apple has kept the legacy OpenCL (v1.2) even in its latest version of macOS; they even re-wrote it to run natively under the new Apple Silicon CPUs.

Apple did this so that the current plethora of scientific software written for Intel chips would either run without modification under Rosetta, or just require a recompile with the latest Xcode with another flag set for M1 code..

I doubt you'll ever find anyone on the forums willingly running Folding@Home on a Mac because the Folding software authors are either totally uninterested in writing in old OpenCL code or feel that they don't need to give Macs GPU support, which pisses Mac users off and then they'll join a project that DOES support Apple GPUs like Einstein.. and the CPU client definitely is not really optimized on Mac.

Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Apr 4, 2021

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



OPNG is live, but rather than the flood everyone was expecting, the current WU release rate is 1700 every 30-ish minutes (there's some randomness built in to keep people from fetching WUs on a clock, because yes that is a thing that people will do -- looking at you HSTB).

Currently unknown if that's gonna increase or not.

My machines have crunched 97 so far. They're very unevenly distributed across the farm (low: 0; high: 43), as you might expect for something with limited and somewhat-irregular availability. I'll be evaluating how this goes, and turning Einstein@Home back on as a low-priority project if my GPUs have consistent downtime.

Vir
Dec 14, 2007

Does it tickle when your Body Thetans flap their wings, eh Beatrice?


The F@H statistics page has been given a makeover. It now displays team logos for those that have it, and it has also broken the client's web frontend.

SAGoons is ranked 69, but lacks a logo: https://stats.foldingathome.org/team/150

Old page: https://statsclassic.foldingathome.org/team/150

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Vir posted:

The F@H statistics page has been given a makeover. It now displays team logos for those that have it, and it has also broken the client's web frontend.

SAGoons is ranked 69, but lacks a logo: https://stats.foldingathome.org/team/150

Old page: https://statsclassic.foldingathome.org/team/150

Chikimiki
May 14, 2009


Vir posted:

The F@H statistics page has been given a makeover. It now displays team logos for those that have it, and it has also broken the client's web frontend.

SAGoons is ranked 69, but lacks a logo: https://stats.foldingathome.org/team/150

Old page: https://statsclassic.foldingathome.org/team/150

Oh so that's why I couldn't see my total score on the web client, I was gonna ask in this thread as to why that is

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Vir
Dec 14, 2007

Does it tickle when your Body Thetans flap their wings, eh Beatrice?


F@H has rolled back the new stats pages, because it broke the web client. This premature rollout also revealed that many third party websites were hammering the statistics API with excessive calls. F@H has only one programmer on staff, which I guess is a typical symptom of how research grants pay for PhD projects, but infrastructure and support functions are under-funded.

Here's the beta page: https://statsbeta.foldingathome.org/team/150

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