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Cythereal posted:Adding to this, there are ways to detect submarines besides sound. What let the Bear pick up and kill the latest sub was the Bear's MAD - Magnetic Anomaly Detector. The technology is complicated and MADs have a lot of uses in civilian geological and oceanographic research, but for these purposes, at heart it boils down to putting a giant magnet in a plane and waiting for it to detect something big and ferrous underneath the plane - like a submarine. I've read of some ambiguity in the depth of the MAD sensors. Some sources claim 1500 ft, others 1,000, and one limited it to 200 ft. So I'm not sure what is valid so I'm deferring to the game to know more than I. I don't think the Bears passive buoys can pick up the Japanese subs unless they are cavitating.
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Nov 27, 2018 02:19
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Hey Yooper if you want to spice things up a bit the Japanese Air Defense force have 1 domestically assembled Mitsubishi F-35a. I would like to see what 1 could do. You could give a handicap huge turnaround time or something. Let both sides know it will be operational in like few turns. I don't think it should upset the balance too much or is a F-35 that good?
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Nov 30, 2018 00:07
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Yooper posted:I've read of some ambiguity in the depth of the MAD sensors. Some sources claim 1500 ft, others 1,000, and one limited it to 200 ft. So I'm not sure what is valid so I'm deferring to the game to know more than I. I don't think the Bears passive buoys can pick up the Japanese subs unless they are cavitating. I think the MAD depth is mostly due to the real stats being classified for obvious reasons.
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Nov 30, 2018 00:23
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ScottyJSno posted:Hey Yooper if you want to spice things up a bit the Japanese Air Defense force have 1 domestically assembled Mitsubishi F-35a. I would like to see what 1 could do. You could give a handicap huge turnaround time or something. Let both sides know it will be operational in like few turns. I don't think it should upset the balance too much or is a F-35 that good? In my experience the F-35 is so incredibly good compared to everything else that it could likely poo poo up the entire Russian side. Even without weapons the sensor suite is really awesome. Cythereal posted:I think the MAD depth is mostly due to the real stats being classified for obvious reasons. I could mimic it with lua I think, but I'm not terribly worried about it.
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Nov 30, 2018 00:29
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 The platonic ideal of a cursed image 
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Nov 30, 2018 02:41
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Neophyte posted:
I dont know. you toast that bread up nice crispy 
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Nov 30, 2018 02:54
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Oh dear. Looks to me like the Russians have a golden opportunity to smash the Japanese fleet and they sure intend to take it.
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Nov 30, 2018 06:18
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Cythereal posted:Oh dear. Looks to me like the Russians have a golden opportunity to smash the Japanese fleet and they sure intend to take it. Terrain masking might pay off. I found a picture that illustrates sonar behavior a bit better than me using a thousand words.  Emitter is in the top left, speed of sound at a given depth is on the left, and the effects on sound are on the left. You can clearly see the channel, the layer and the convergence, and also the deep shadow zone under the emitter. Generally the ‘rules’ are to transit deep, then pop-up at creep to minimize exposure, but it’s situational. MAD specifics are classified, but the basic system is the same as a metal detector with a synthetic aperture linked to the wing span of the platform with a signal that varies according to depth, which roughly translates as depth being life when their are Bears in the air. Or Orions, depending on your side.
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Nov 30, 2018 15:10
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Cythereal posted:Oh dear. Looks to me like the Russians have a golden opportunity to smash the Japanese fleet and they sure intend to take it. There's a definite chance that the JSDF is about to get proper hosed and it'll be interesting to see whether they get out of it or not.
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Nov 30, 2018 19:00
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Notahippie posted:There's a definite chance that the JSDF is about to get proper hosed and it'll be interesting to see whether they get out of it or not. They did not. Eight missiles per ship was probably overkill, but that's almost three hundred more dead Japanese sailors in very visible fashion - not like their submarines steadily disappearing. The American aegis cruiser inevitably down around Yokohama is probably reading that early chapter of Red Storm Rising over the intercom.
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Dec 2, 2018 04:03
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Given th2y got 3 kills.in 6 missiles, 8 per was definitely overkill yeah. But overkill is still kill which is what counts.
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Dec 2, 2018 13:11
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They assumed the JSDF ships were one gen more advanced than they actually were. It's no worse than preparing for F35s only to discover that the foes are F14s.
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Dec 2, 2018 18:06
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2018 04:09
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I think that threads can be locked to folks? And the Russians are playing pretty well and the Japanese aren't adapting. The Russians are doing a pretty nice hand and are playing it well. Kudos
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Dec 3, 2018 05:15
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The discord is invite only, the SA threads are honor system.
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Dec 3, 2018 05:37
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wedgekree posted:I think that threads can be locked to folks? I think the Russian players have been better at figuring out what works and what doesn't. They made some mistakes that cost them unnecessary losses, but they've learned from those mistakes. The Japanese are just kinda plowing ahead with their previous plan and shrugging at their losses, including their whole surface force.
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Dec 3, 2018 05:52
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Cythereal posted:I think the Russian players have been better at figuring out what works and what doesn't. They made some mistakes that cost them unnecessary losses, but they've learned from those mistakes. The Japanese are just kinda plowing ahead with their previous plan and shrugging at their losses, including their whole surface force. at least they're acting in character!
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Dec 3, 2018 06:15
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From the Russian thread with love. 
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Dec 3, 2018 06:43
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Cythereal posted:I think the Russian players have been better at figuring out what works and what doesn't. They made some mistakes that cost them unnecessary losses, but they've learned from those mistakes. The Japanese are just kinda plowing ahead with their previous plan and shrugging at their losses, including their whole surface force. What else could the surface force have done? In my mind the Japanese surface forced was doomed to die or do nothing. The Japanese didn't/don't have the air power to properly screen them.
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Dec 3, 2018 07:41
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ScottyJSno posted:What else could the surface force have done? In my mind the Japanese surface forced was doomed to die or do nothing. The Japanese didn't/don't have the air power to properly screen them. The Russians are adapting but the Japanese also have been very aggressive (I guess?) without any real fallback plans here. or at least general strategic focus. What is the benefit to going for a massed air to air exchange early on or throwing the surface forces to an aggressive full steam run? All things have options, mind. But I suppose on their side I'm curious on what the general plan of attack was in attacking and the long term operational benefit.
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Dec 3, 2018 10:50
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They don't really have one as far as I can see, they're just reacting to what they can see and trying to kill it without much thought for the longer term. This would work if they were wining the engagments but they're not really apart from those early sub kills which I think made them badly overconfident and led to this situation anyway.
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Dec 3, 2018 11:00
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Sounds historically accurate.
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Dec 3, 2018 21:35
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ScottyJSno posted:What else could the surface force have done? In my mind the Japanese surface forced was doomed to die or do nothing. The Japanese didn't/don't have the air power to properly screen them. After that air engagement, I'd have held the surface force back as a reserve or into an ambush position against possible convoy routes with shelter from the terrain. Russia took numerically more losses in the air exchange, but they had the planes to lose and it didn't seriously hurt their strategy. The Japanese really couldn't afford the air losses they suffered, and I don't think the Japanese players appreciate how that damaged their grasp of the battlefield. The Japanese players just seem concerned with trying to kill whatever they can see while the Russians have a plan in mind.
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Dec 3, 2018 21:44
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2018 22:22
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The tricky part for the Japanese is all they need to do is wait and survive. It's tough to have "do nothing" as a strategy. The MIG-31's are already approaching operational usefulness regarding fuel. It's entirely likely that the F-4's will swoop in and annihilate the convoy and the Russians can't do a thing about it as the SU-27's and MIG will get ownzoned by the remaining F-15's. The Japanese subs are now doing the prudent thing and just sitting still. While quiet when moving they are really quiet when still. I'm debating whether or not to escalate. If I do it involves adding units that are not surface or sub-surface. Anything I add has the potential to be really unbalancing. Japan Escalation Ideas : F-35 w/ broken radar, no weapons. Two F-2's (Can't reach the A-50). Russian Escalation #1 : SSM Battalion south of Dolinsk. Blackjack or Backfire. PAK. My thought is after Japan escalates then the Russians can respond. Whatcha guys think?
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Dec 3, 2018 23:41
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i think the downsides of unbalancing are less than the upsides of more toys let the thing play out - it's still pretty touch and go for both sides and they should see their plan (or lack thereof) to fruition
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Dec 4, 2018 00:06
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How about letting the players themselves request assets, then deciding on what their respective commands allocate them? Means both sides can be sure to get something useful (much as I love the idea of bluffing an F-35).
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Dec 4, 2018 00:47
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Loxbourne posted:How about letting the players themselves request assets, then deciding on what their respective commands allocate them? Means both sides can be sure to get something useful (much as I love the idea of bluffing an F-35). This is a good idea. But I also just like the idea of letting it play out.
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Dec 4, 2018 01:10
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Also possible you could give each side minor nuggets of info/intelligence in a meta sense that might help them focus some? On a 1:1 ratio so it favors neither?
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Dec 4, 2018 06:51
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why is everyone so in to changing what is going on
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Dec 4, 2018 13:52
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yeah let it play out imo, if you want to make changes do it after the objectives have been met and go from there
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Dec 4, 2018 15:18
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I'm just going to let it play out. The time to modify things would've been at the outset. I plan on doing an AAR with all parties to figure out how better to do this next time. Shortcomings in the scenario made for a rather linear output. The unintended strike in Turn 1 with the MIG's made for some of the most interesting departures. I think next time I'll give the players more tactical freedom, more weapons systems, and more freedom to win, or lose, on their own terms.
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Dec 4, 2018 15:39
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Vando posted:yeah let it play out imo, if you want to make changes do it after the objectives have been met and go from there Yeah, there's still
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Dec 4, 2018 19:37
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Escalation would be an interesting situation. The political balance should definitely shift also as the situation develops
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Dec 6, 2018 18:27
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Cripes, that Akula’s going to put the cat amongst the pigeons and no mistake. Needs some Bear coverage at least.
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Dec 8, 2018 18:07
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So is the Akula designed to get all the attention in the neighborhood to reveal whatever assets the Japanese have left and draw them into an ambush with the sprint? I'm not quite sure what the plan is there.
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Dec 9, 2018 09:36
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wedgekree posted:So is the Akula designed to get all the attention in the neighborhood to reveal whatever assets the Japanese have left and draw them into an ambush with the sprint? I'm not quite sure what the plan is there. They did that last time and almost immediately lost the submarine.
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Dec 9, 2018 12:38
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wedgekree posted:So is the Akula designed to get all the attention in the neighborhood to reveal whatever assets the Japanese have left and draw them into an ambush with the sprint? I'm not quite sure what the plan is there. I think it’s more the convoy is kinda open at the moment. They might also think the Akula is quieter than it actually is.
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Dec 9, 2018 16:18
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2018 06:32
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I guess the IJN being more conservative for the moment actually plays well if they keep up a track on the Akula and hold thier forces back rather than rushing in given the Russians have good fighter availability and Bears up. It seems at least they're starting to adjust some - playing a bit more conservatively and not being as aggressive as they were early game. Guess it depends on how/if they get a good read on the convoy or at lesat an estimate and what shape they're in when they go after it And -any- sub going flank speed is loud - diesel, nuclear, one designed for nuclear launch like the Ohios..
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Dec 10, 2018 06:49
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