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We're only a few episodes in, and so far I'm kinda frustrated by the feeling that they had a huge block of time to fill and not enough core story to justify it. There are so many scenes that end with a character being left alone in a room to frown and look off into the distance for about ten seconds. It's beautifully shot and the performances are very good but I can't help but feel that I could have watched five excellent movies in the time it would take to watch this series meander along. Like, when are they gonna get to the fireworks factory?
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Oct 18, 2018 19:49
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I think if you go into this show expecting a super scary haunted house experience then you'll be disappointed. Actually I think a lot of Netflix watchers will make that mistake too. This is all family drama set to a haunted house and supernatural abilities.
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Oct 18, 2018 21:33
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BoldestCorgi posted:We're only a few episodes in, and so far I'm kinda frustrated by the feeling that they had a huge block of time to fill and not enough core story to justify it. There are so many scenes that end with a character being left alone in a room to frown and look off into the distance for about ten seconds. It's beautifully shot and the performances are very good but I can't help but feel that I could have watched five excellent movies in the time it would take to watch this series meander along. Like, when are they gonna get to the fireworks factory? don't worry they get to the dam fireworks Factory just take it in and enjoy the ambience I think that's a lot of what this show has going for it
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Oct 18, 2018 23:21
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BoldestCorgi posted:We're only a few episodes in, and so far I'm kinda frustrated by the feeling that they had a huge block of time to fill and not enough core story to justify it. welcome to netflix shows!
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Oct 18, 2018 23:32
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This was a cool show especially when it started to pick up. I was skeptical until then. Only thing I'd say is that the ending was too sappy for my liking. Although had to get a kick out of the Dudleys using an exploit basically. That's the way to do it! Doesn't seem like the worst place to hang out once you really do kick the bucket. They even fixed Nell's neck. I was confused and thought Theo and the mother were the same person for the first couple episodes. So I thought Theo was just a lot older than the other siblings early on
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Oct 19, 2018 22:55
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What the gently caress was with henry thomas's (young dad) eyes. They were this weird shade of blue and the pupils never changed size. Like they were some lovely contacts for "reasons". Bugged the hell out of me.
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Oct 20, 2018 03:57
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Just finished. I'm still digesting it but found it to be a gripping depiction of the legacy of trauma. It isn't much of a horror story, beyond a few general scares in the first few episodes, but I didn't mind that. The family drama is good overall (though there are some episodes that needed another round of edits). The kid actors were pretty great. The worst thing about the show are the last 10 minutes or so, which are weirdly off key. Also, (E09) Abigail drinking from that cup of poison just broke my heart. She's just so desperate to be included and Olivia/The House exploits it in the worst possible way.
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Oct 20, 2018 04:31
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Something I've been wondering about - So, by the end of this, we can distinguish two separate lines of supernatural activity - the primary being the house and its time-fuckery and people-devouring etc etc. However, we also know that Olivia has migraines of a mysterious sort, and during Theo's episode Olivia talks as if Theo's sensitivity comes from her blood. So - should we be assuming that Olivia's magical bloodline is related to the house in some way? Or, is this just a universe where Magic poo poo Happens, and a family w magic blood happened to move into a haunted house. Did I miss anything that clarifies this? Or are these just dangling threads to seduce a sequel?
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Oct 21, 2018 03:04
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Flutch posted:Something I've been wondering about - I think it was left intentionally ambiguous either for a sequel or just to let the viewer fill in their own blanks. Obviously supernatural blood exists in the Crain family since the twins have the weird connection, Ellie sees whole bent-neck lady being herself, and Theo's touching super powers. The house appears to have the same rules as Murder House from AHS except the ghosts don't actually harm anyone. They're all psychological what with the long cane man with Steve/Luke and the 1920s girl influencing Olivia's psyche. The past ghosts and the caretakers didn't appear to have any magical powers either so I think it's more a family with magic blood happened to have moved in. The rules surrounding what the house can or can't do, the Crain's magic, or pretty much anything outside the main family drama arc misses the point. I don't think the writers particularly cared to flesh that out.
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Oct 21, 2018 04:38
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Agreed, and I don't really think it matters. I'm watching it a second time through tho and can't help but geek out about the lore lol. 100% agree though that the family drama is the most important thing. trauma is as scary or scarier than ghosts. hauntology etc etc. a lot of the family sequences, esp. w/ the dad finally speaking on the past, and the twins being indivisible, hit me way deeper than any of the spookiness.
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Oct 21, 2018 09:54
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Some things don't seem to add up with the idea that the ghosts are just psychological. Something tore kid Luke's shirt well away from the dumb waiter, there was clearly very real dirt in the funeral home leading into the office, kid Steve unplugged the fan and it turned on and cut dad, etc
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Oct 21, 2018 12:41
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I thought the last episode was very weak, felt like it was written by a different team. Flapper ghost? Actually we are happy and our ideal selves here together unlike the other ghosts. Killing the dad could be seen a mile away but felt cheap when followed by giving everyone else a happy ending montage complete with indie folk music. I also found that ten episodes was too much. Could have been seven, which would tie back into the twins’ seven thing. Maybe eight if they wanted to keep the finale separate from each character. By the end it was kind of ridiculous watching how they were still attempting the rationalize the supernatural/unnatural. Yea I get it, the real horror is family dysfunction and mental illness, please stop literally shouting it at each other. That said, the first half of the show was top notch and the characters had some depth that made me empathetic to them as dysfunctional adults. I also have to echo everyone else who raved about episode 6. Amazing camera work and great character interaction. I was impressed by the performances of the dad (young and old), Nellie, and Luke.
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Oct 21, 2018 15:56
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Some things don't seem to add up with the idea that the ghosts are just psychological. Something tore kid Luke's shirt well away from the dumb waiter, there was clearly very real dirt in the funeral home leading into the office, kid Steve unplugged the fan and it turned on and cut dad, etc Those are all good points. I thought Luke's shirt getting ripped was due to the dumb waiter though. The fan was definitely poltergeistesque. Could have done without that honestly or had it explained as Steve just unplugging the wrong plug. You could also say the dumb waiter was the ghosts interacting with the world since it wasn't working properly on purpose. I still don't think you ever see a ghost physically harming someone.
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Oct 21, 2018 17:14
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Doltos posted:Those are all good points. I thought Luke's shirt getting ripped was due to the dumb waiter though. The fan was definitely poltergeistesque. Could have done without that honestly or had it explained as Steve just unplugging the wrong plug. You could also say the dumb waiter was the ghosts interacting with the world since it wasn't working properly on purpose. This may sound silly, but it would ruin the show for me if it turned out they they were some just psychological phenomenon.
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Oct 21, 2018 18:06
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Doltos posted:Those are all good points. I thought Luke's shirt getting ripped was due to the dumb waiter though. The fan was definitely poltergeistesque. Could have done without that honestly or had it explained as Steve just unplugging the wrong plug. You could also say the dumb waiter was the ghosts interacting with the world since it wasn't working properly on purpose. In regards to the shirt: When Theo went down there, the scrap was multiple feet away from the dumb waiter, which suggests that it didn't just get snagged by the machine.
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Oct 21, 2018 18:15
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QuoProQuid posted:Just finished. I'm still digesting it but found it to be a gripping depiction of the legacy of trauma. It isn't much of a horror story, beyond a few general scares in the first few episodes, but I didn't mind that. The family drama is good overall (though there are some episodes that needed another round of edits). The kid actors were pretty great. The worst thing about the show are the last 10 minutes or so, which are weirdly off key. Ya seriously I was really surprised how much the kid actors were better than the adult actors. I don't know if it was the script but they sounded stiff. Like you could tell they were acting out a scene but the kids scenes you were often fully immersed. Agreeing with everyone else who said the first 5-6 episodes were really strong and that 10 episodes was a bit too much for this. Kinda disappointed they didn't adapt the book more closely but the family drama and mental illness aspects were poignant enough than just focusing on the house like the book does. Mostly enjoyed it but wish it was maybe 2-3 episodes shorter.
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Oct 21, 2018 18:37
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Finally finished it; I thought it was really good! I do agree that the last episode was a tonal change from the rest, to the point that I laughed when suddenly Olivia, Nell, and Abigail were suddenly wearing derbies but unlike everyone else I actually liked that all things considered, it was a very happy ending. Almost every horror thing ever ends with "wooooo, the ghost is still coming to get you" so I appreciated that for once we got a horror story where the protagonists got a break. In my head I imagine that now the siblings basically have a line to the afterlife and can talk with their dead kin whenever they want, now that Nell and the dad and possibly the Dudleys are around to keep the bad ghosts in line.
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Oct 22, 2018 07:08
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I'm okay with a happy ending; I was actually rooting for the family to come through as best they could. However, I felt the dad should have lived. Thirty years of being ostracized from his kids, this would have been a chance to get back into their lives, and actually meet his grandchildrens. He was a great dad to them in the past, which made it hard to watch how they treated him in the present (although understandable- to a point). Besides that, the happy ending for those trapped in the house felt tonally off. Another posted mention that it could just be the house tricking them, which I agree with. Your idea isn't bad either, if this story was continued they could explore the Luke - Nellie connection and Theo's abilities (if she still has them) via that.
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Oct 22, 2018 21:59
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Any theories as to why young Theo has such a visceral reaction when her dad touches her as they're escaping from the house? Getting psychic visions when you're not expecting them is unpleasant, which is why she wore the gloves, but I assumed that she saw something disturbing in her father's past, which lead to her distrust of him. For the rest of the series, I thought he was hiding something, but nothing ever really comes of it. Also here's a cool featurette on episode 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8gJ81M39Ig
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Oct 22, 2018 22:15
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FastestGunAlive posted:I'm okay with a happy ending; I was actually rooting for the family to come through as best they could. However, I felt the dad should have lived. Thirty years of being ostracized from his kids, this would have been a chance to get back into their lives, and actually meet his grandchildrens. He was a great dad to them in the past, which made it hard to watch how they treated him in the present (although understandable- to a point). Besides that, the happy ending for those trapped in the house felt tonally off. Another posted mention that it could just be the house tricking them, which I agree with. Your idea isn't bad either, if this story was continued they could explore the Luke - Nellie connection and Theo's abilities (if she still has them) via that. I’ve got no problem with a happy ending. My issue is with the delivery mechanism, which seems to contradict everything we know about the house and how it operates. Why would Liv have any say over how the house operates? How is Nellie able to drag the family out of their curdled fantasies when the show suggests that she is as much a prisoner? How is the Red Room suddenly a perfect white heaven where people get to stay together forever instead of the hellish stomach it is described as earlier?
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Oct 23, 2018 04:07
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QuoProQuid posted:I’ve got no problem with a happy ending. My issue is with the delivery mechanism, which seems to contradict everything we know about the house and how it operates. See I saw it completely differently. The house is still totally evil. Papa Crain told Steve it would do anything to defend itself when Luke showed up to torch the place. That includes using Olivia and Nellie to make everyone feel better about their family issues, thus making them forget why Luke was there in the first place. It then lured Hugh into the red room at the end right when he could be turning his life around with his family. Like every time it showed the house all lit up and happy it would flash back to the decrepit reality showing off how it was all what the person wanted to see. Hill house snags souls. Like it tricked three of the Crains to die in the place then got the Dudleys to die there too by influencing Olivia into poisoning the Dudley kid. It essentially got six out of ten souls. I bet Luke goes back there to die too to be with Nell. The happy ending was a total trap and it wasn't actually happy at all but pretty horrifying.
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Oct 23, 2018 04:24
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I’m with you quid my first post alluded to it but I didn’t bring it up again in the one you quoted. Doltos, I like your interpretation and I’ve adapted it, although I don’t think that was what they were intentionally trying to portray (for whatever that is worth). Lester, my assumption is she saw what he had just seen that night. Might be why she was somewhat open to engaging with him at the funeral, at least more so than Steve and Shirley.
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Oct 23, 2018 04:54
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E5 The last minute of this episode is probably one of my favorite horror sequences. I had even guessed where the episode was going and it was still an awesome payoff.
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Oct 23, 2018 16:06
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QuoProQuid posted:I’ve got no problem with a happy ending. My issue is with the delivery mechanism, which seems to contradict everything we know about the house and how it operates. In the last episode when Nell shows up in the Red Room, she says that she was swallowed whole by the monster (the house) and it is only vaguely aware of her movements throughout it.
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Oct 23, 2018 21:09
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Really liked this overall. The Bent-neck Lady reveal, even if it was heavily foreshadowed, was really well-done and a little heartbreaking. If you haven't seen Hush, by the same director as this (and starring/co-written by the actress who played Theo), it's really good.
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Oct 24, 2018 00:04
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Crow Jane posted:Really liked this overall. The Bent-neck Lady reveal, even if it was heavily foreshadowed, was really well-done and a little heartbreaking. Fun fact: the director Mike Flanagan is married to the actress that played Theo, Kate Siegel, in real life.
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Oct 24, 2018 07:35
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Lester Shy posted:Any theories as to why young Theo has such a visceral reaction when her dad touches her as they're escaping from the house? Getting psychic visions when you're not expecting them is unpleasant, which is why she wore the gloves, but I assumed that she saw something disturbing in her father's past, which lead to her distrust of him. For the rest of the series, I thought he was hiding something, but nothing ever really comes of it. IIRC she sees the image of her dad violently shoving her mom, giving the implication that he was an abusive, violent husband. It is later revealed that he shoved her because she was literally poisoning children to death.
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Oct 24, 2018 07:39
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In the first couple episodes I got the vibe that Nell was as disliked as Luke but I don't think it meant to convey that. Maybe they were exasperated with her because they believe she enables him? It could also be because they don't dismiss the ghost stuff.... There's a ton of interpersonal stuff going on. I think Steve was an absolute poo poo though.
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Oct 24, 2018 08:31
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I thought they didn't really stick the landing with the ending. The idea that dying in the house is a totally kewl afterlife where you can chill with your family outside of time seems to be at odds with what they presented earlier, where the ghosts where shambling , rotting zombies who seemed to flit in and out of existence and fits of rage or barely shuffling staring. The only ones who seemed to have any consciousness were Olivia and Poppy, and they were mentally ill IRL and in death. Hazel, the old lady in the bed, kind of did too I suppose, but she didn't have a lot of lines. Seems like it would be eternal torture On that note though, who exactly was Hazel? I seem to recall that she was a Hill, and Mrs. Dudley took care of her. Mrs Dudley also said she knew Poppy as an old lady, and described her to young Steve as something like, "just as crazy, but old." I don't think she was the same person as Hazel though, as Olivia saw both Hazel and Poppy and Hazel referred to Poppy as "Don't believe that one, she lies" which implies two different ghosts/people. Was she a daughter of Poppy's who didn't die? Some other HIll? It would have been interesting to find out who some of the other ghosts were. The ones we saw identified were Poppy, her husband the tall guy in the hat who bricked himself up, their son in the wheelchair, and Hazel. There were a lot of others though.
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Oct 24, 2018 10:03
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Personally I'm irritated that they characterized any ghosts at all. It cheapened the whole thing and made it seem silly, a ambiguous corrupting evil is a lot scarier to me than "flapper ghost". I really dug how up until around ep. 6 there was nothing to suggest it wasn't all a genetic family mental illness, and honestly expected them to ride that to the end and leave the audience without a nice clean resolution, which may be part of the reason I was so disappointed with the ending. Edit: There is a big reason why villains like Jason and Michael Myers are scary while ones like Freddy are silly, and that's ambiguity and the unknown. Jason is spooky af until his mask comes off and you see the dorky green monster, Myers is just a random nightmare until they explain his motivations. Just look what happens with Nell and bent neck lady; the second you realize what is up, all the horror is gone. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 12:27
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Episode 3: Man, Theo must see some horrible poo poo, if by shaking hands with traumatised children she experiences their trauma in a way. The implication that she's handed off more than a few child molestation cases to the cops, and the way she reacted was horrifying. I'd hit the bottle too.
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Oct 24, 2018 16:06
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Patrovsky posted:Episode 3: Man, Theo must see some horrible poo poo, if by shaking hands with traumatised children she experiences their trauma in a way. The implication that she's handed off more than a few child molestation cases to the cops, and the way she reacted was horrifying. I'd hit the bottle too. Yeah that's the main thing with Theo. She's got serious PTSD and no one in the family seems to care. Shirley puts a ton of poo poo on her too which is why Shirleys a total rear end in a top hat. pr0p posted:In the first couple episodes I got the vibe that Nell was as disliked as Luke but I don't think it meant to convey that. Maybe they were exasperated with her because they believe she enables him? It could also be because they don't dismiss the ghost stuff.... There's a ton of interpersonal stuff going on. I think Steve was an absolute poo poo though. Yeah I definitely got the impression that Nell constantly worrying or freaking out which is why everyone ignored her before the suicide. And yeah Steve is an absolute dog poo poo of a human being. Ignoring him general dickhead about the whole haunting situation, he's just a miserable lying rear end in a top hat. Had a vasectomy because he was convinced that his family line was rotten then didn't tell his wife thus leading to thousands of dollars of medical intervention plus the whole psychological issues that would probably cause for his wife. Total shithead towards his dad and siblings. Greedy piece of poo poo that capitalized on his mother's death then guilt tripped his family into letting him publish it. And the worst part of it all is how loving stubborn he was about the house. Just shut the gently caress up, let your dad drive you there, and get over yourself you little poo poo. God I hate Steve.
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Oct 24, 2018 17:13
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Steve is a jerk but he did share the money from the book with his family and he's got just as much a right to tell the story as they are to not accept or accpet the money. I do agree about the first thing, his rational for his actions was dumb as gently caress, he says his wife even said she wanted kids and he thought he could convince her but uhhh, dude maybe that's a complete conversation you have before you got married. I think his attitude towards his father and his siblings makes sense though, from his perspective (and his research for the book) their father looks like he murdered his wife who had a break down and got away with it, never telling the children anything and refusing to let them be questioned by police. And when the dad does show up sporadically throughout the of their lives, he's aloof, he's talking to himself (initially it looks like he's literally haunted by his wife but no, it's just his coping mechanism), and he's suffering from the same PTSD as the rest of the family only he knows the truth and can't talk about it with the people who would actually understand what he's going through, his family. I like how re contextualizing a scene from a different perspective turns the show on its head.
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Oct 24, 2018 17:31
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Steve is a jerk but he did share the money from the book with his family and he's got just as much a right to tell the story as they are to not accept or accpet the money. I do agree about the first thing, his rational for his actions was dumb as gently caress, he says his wife even said she wanted kids and he thought he could convince her but uhhh, dude maybe that's a complete conversation you have before you got married. I think his attitude towards his father and his siblings makes sense though, from his perspective (and his research for the book) their father looks like he murdered his wife who had a break down and got away with it, never telling the children anything and refusing to let them be questioned by police. And when the dad does show up sporadically throughout the of their lives, he's aloof, he's talking to himself (initially it looks like he's literally haunted by his wife but no, it's just his coping mechanism), and he's suffering from the same PTSD as the rest of the family only he knows the truth and can't talk about it with the people who would actually understand what he's going through, his family. The only issue with that is several of his siblings saw the ghosts, told him about the ghosts, repeatedly were obsessed with the ghosts, and he still didn't believe them or even try to believe them. He was so utterly convinced that his dad was a murderer that he intentionally blocked out any possibility of ghosts existing. The whole beginning scene with him and that woman he was trying to find inspiration from was him going into the process not believing in ghosts. He had those thoughts in his mind and intentionally ignored them because it didn't fit his narrative of what happened. There were also a ton of flashbacks of his dad being great to him all the time, even when he got his hand sliced up, so Steve's undeniable hatred of his dad and love of his mom made no sense from a show perspective. I think Steve the character was meant to be a jerk and an rear end in a top hat. Not just interpretation but an actual plot device to trigger the storyline. Plus he filled the character of an unsympathetic loved one who doesn't believe another loved one.
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Oct 24, 2018 18:32
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Trying to avoid turning it into a “who’s worse competition” but my thoughts: Steve’s reveal of the vasectomy is what pushed him into huge rear end in a top hat territory for me but I still felt he was redeemed in the end per his conversation with ghost dad and turning it around from his wife. The writing stuff was clearly him desperate to just make a living; it made him rich and famous but in retrospect he was just looking to break even. Shirley was worse than him imo even before her cheating revelation she came off as way worse; I felt she treated Nell and Luke with more disdain than Steve and she ostracized the dad from his grandkids. Again though, felt like she was striving to be redeemed in the end Crow Jane posted:If you haven't seen Hush, by the same director as this (and starring/co-written by the actress who played Theo), it's really good. FastestGunAlive fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 19:37
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FastestGunAlive posted:Shirley was worse than him imo even before her cheating revelation she came off as way worse; I felt she treated Nell and Luke with more disdain than Steve and she ostracized the dad from his grandkids. Again though, felt like she was striving to be redeemed in the end I thought Shirley was the least fleshed out of the characters. They barely showed her as a kid and when they did she was more white noise than anything. Then adult version of her was so unbelievably nasty and bitter. Total dick to Nell, Luke, Hugh, her husband, and Theo. I get she was suppressing her own guilt but she went from nice little kid to total jerk. Maybe they should have done more with her childhood.
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Oct 24, 2018 20:57
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pr0p posted:In the first couple episodes I got the vibe that Nell was as disliked as Luke but I don't think it meant to convey that. Maybe they were exasperated with her because they believe she enables him? It could also be because they don't dismiss the ghost stuff.... There's a ton of interpersonal stuff going on. I think Steve was an absolute poo poo though. I'm half sure they very briefly mention that Nell was an addict, herself.
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Oct 25, 2018 00:11
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Doltos posted:The only issue with that is several of his siblings saw the ghosts, told him about the ghosts, repeatedly were obsessed with the ghosts, and he still didn't believe them or even try to believe them. He was so utterly convinced that his dad was a murderer that he intentionally blocked out any possibility of ghosts existing. The whole beginning scene with him and that woman he was trying to find inspiration from was him going into the process not believing in ghosts. He had those thoughts in his mind and intentionally ignored them because it didn't fit his narrative of what happened. There were also a ton of flashbacks of his dad being great to him all the time, even when he got his hand sliced up, so Steve's undeniable hatred of his dad and love of his mom made no sense from a show perspective. To be fair, he did seem to be spending his life legit looking for ghosts. He wasn't just ignoring poo poo; he was doing actual research, scientific experiments, etc and then debunking. But I think he was hoping to see something. Patrovsky posted:Episode 3: Man, Theo must see some horrible poo poo, if by shaking hands with traumatised children she experiences their trauma in a way. The implication that she's handed off more than a few child molestation cases to the cops, and the way she reacted was horrifying. I'd hit the bottle too. I loved the quick little line when Theo says about the girl she met at the bar "Oh, she's a bundle of issues, I blew her off." or something like that. But while that sounded like a snap judgement someone would make who was trying to excuse not being emotionally intimate or committed to someone else, in reality Theo probably knew very much deeply and quickly how "hosed up" any human she could have a relationship would be (ie normal but not perfect). It's no wonder that after a quick touch and seeing the innermost thoughts and neuroses of any potential partner she rejects them out of hand.
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Oct 25, 2018 01:31
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I liked how Shirley's comments about preparing her sister's body and getting all the insects out of her tied directly back to her experience with the kitten.
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Oct 25, 2018 02:02
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Fallom posted:I liked how Shirley's comments about preparing her sister's body and getting all the insects out of her tied directly back to her experience with the kitten. It would have been cool if Shirley's character was afraid of the house or something. I mean if you're a nine year old girl and all your kittens die while displaying symptoms of demonic possession and then one of them has a bug crawl out of its mouth while you're staring at it, I'd assume that'd be kinda traumatizing. Instead she internalizes it and becomes a mortician, but then that has nothing to do with how she cheated on her husband and is fed up with her family. It was kind of a detached origin story while all the other siblings stories sorta had synergy with their childhood flashbacks. Also for all the trauma not a single one of them had any fear of going back to the house besides Hugh. It would have made it a bit more interesting if Shirley adamantly refused to go back due to fear or something and that's why she's so bitter towards everyone now that the house is being brought back up again.
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Oct 25, 2018 03:21
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