QUIC is now HTTP/3

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > QUIC is now HTTP/3

abigserve: Sep 13, 2009; this is a better avatar than what I had before

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/11/the-next-version-of-http-wont-be-using-tcp/

lol the next version of HTTP is going to be entirely UDP transported because google wanted their videos to buffer 15% faster in high latency conditions and apparently the IETF has agreed that was a totally worthwhile body of work so lets just make it http/3

If you run SSL decryption or do URL filtering on encrypted traffic r.i.p I guess welcome to the new world baby!!! I can't wait for all my packet captures to be completely devoid of all information that would be useful for troubleshooting!

# ? Nov 14, 2018 02:53

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 10:20

MrMoo: Sep 14, 2000

"troubleshooting" lol, TLSv1.3 already stops that blatant mitm poo poo.

I'm sure it will take a while to appear and MS will have a big whine as usual. Still waiting on HTTP/2 APIs to make an appearance, we've only just got HTTP/1.1 into Boost.

You just know webdevs will find a way to poo poo on the protocol advances and make their sites even bigger lardy rear end megaliths. Sites like Facebook and Instagram don't really appear to be getting faster, Google need to work on improving the monstrosity that people have created with infinite scrolling.

MrMoo fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Nov 14, 2018

# ? Nov 14, 2018 02:57

abigserve: Sep 13, 2009; this is a better avatar than what I had before

MrMoo posted:

"troubleshooting" lol, TLSv1.3 already stops that blatant mitm poo poo.

I'm sure it will take a while to appear and MS will have a big whine as usual. Still waiting on HTTP/2 APIs to make an appearance, we've only just got HTTP/1.1 into Boost.

You just know webdevs will find a way to poo poo on the protocol advances and make their sites even bigger lardy rear end megaliths. Sites like Facebook and Instagram don't really appear to be getting faster, Google need to work on improving the monstrosity that people have created with infinite scrolling.

blatant mitm poo poo like checking tcp sequence numbers

# ? Nov 14, 2018 03:32

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

google is poo poo and the web is poo poo.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 03:34

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

Shaggar posted:

google is poo poo and the web is poo poo.

mlyp

# ? Nov 14, 2018 03:40

pram: Jun 10, 2001

cool i guess. not really idk. gas

# ? Nov 14, 2018 05:29

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

I�m posting from the future where google makes the only web server software

# ? Nov 14, 2018 06:14

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

Gazpacho posted:

I�m posting from the future where google makes the only web server software

is it google wave, op?

# ? Nov 14, 2018 09:52

CRIP EATIN BREAD: Jun 24, 2002; Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T; Soiled Meat

3 > 2, so its better

# ? Nov 14, 2018 13:24

Bulgakov: Mar 8, 2009; рукописи не горят

google to offer ads that can't be guaranteed delivery, but probably will be, for one nanopenny found on the the ground less per 1000 attempted views

ad sense customers try to make it up in volume

# ? Nov 14, 2018 14:19

Perplx: Jun 26, 2004; Best viewed on Orgasma Plasma; Lipstick Apathy

this seems like an improvement op

# ? Nov 14, 2018 15:20

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

Perplx posted:

this seems like an improvement op

# ? Nov 14, 2018 15:23

Coffee Jones: Jul 4, 2004; 16 bit? Back when we was kids we only got a single bit on Christmas, as a treat
And we had to share it!

adoption is going to go as well as GPL v3

# ? Nov 14, 2018 15:43

Tankakern: Jul 25, 2007

meh, it's google, they're big enough for it to work

it's just udp so you don't have to throw out all the middleboxes out there to support it

# ? Nov 14, 2018 15:55

graph: Nov 22, 2006; aaag peanuts

Perplx posted:

this seems like an improvement op

an experience beyond studio quality

# ? Nov 14, 2018 16:01

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

Perplx posted:

this seems like an improvement op

this smells like bullshit

# ? Nov 14, 2018 16:10

Salt Fish: Sep 11, 2003; Cybernetic Crumb

QUIC still has error correcting and sequencing, but everything is moved out of the protocol and into the application. It only looks simple because the diagram doesn't show the dozens of connections running in parallel and the increased complexity of the application handling the data.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 16:18

Lysidas: Jul 26, 2002; John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.; Pillbug

Pollyanna posted:

this smells like bullshit

yeah how you do ecdh key exchange in a single one-way packet

# ? Nov 14, 2018 16:56

Silver Alicorn: Mar 30, 2008; 𝓪 𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓹𝓪𝓷𝓭𝓪 𝓲𝓼 𝓪 𝓬𝓾𝓻𝓲𝓸𝓾𝓼 𝓼𝓸𝓻𝓽 𝓸𝓯 𝓬𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓽𝓾𝓻𝓮

what does http3 provide to me, a dumbass normal user?

# ? Nov 14, 2018 17:16

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

more ads from google at a lower server resource cost

# ? Nov 14, 2018 17:17

Perplx: Jun 26, 2004; Best viewed on Orgasma Plasma; Lipstick Apathy

Lysidas posted:

yeah how you do ecdh key exchange in a single one-way packet

its a repeat connection, its the browser equivalent of known_hosts

# ? Nov 14, 2018 17:23

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

the technical ideas seem very sensible, that is: 1) just coalesce all handshaking from all levels into a single packet since it really pretty much looks the same every time anyway; and; 2) when multiplexing stuff on a connection don't hold up all the logical streams to handle a retransmission on one

the practical idea seems terrible, that is: "waiting to have this be properly implemented in the operating system would take time, and this is 2018 so everything has to happen instantly, so lets just reintroduce trumpet winsock statically linked into every application"

# ? Nov 14, 2018 17:24

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

I can't wait to have to pick and update web servers not only based on their HTTP handling, but also based on the various bugs their reordering, window sizing, and retransmission logic may contain.

# ? Nov 14, 2018 19:51

abigserve: Sep 13, 2009; this is a better avatar than what I had before

I look forward to;

- Clients enabling HTTP/3 to speed up performance when they've got crazy backend issues and then complaining it's the network when it doesn't help
- Server apps being dead and not listening on udp/443 but with no way to tell without access to the box as there is no longer a concept of "connection refused"
- poorly implemented clients not nicely failing back to TCP

# ? Nov 14, 2018 22:29

MrMoo: Sep 14, 2000

abigserve posted:

blatant mitm poo poo like checking tcp sequence numbers

Which is the entire point of QUIC because head-of-line blocking sucks.

abigserve posted:

I look forward to;

- Clients enabling HTTP/3 to speed up performance when they've got crazy backend issues and then complaining it's the network when it doesn't help

This already happens with HTTP/2, obviously. Superb webdevs will always be.

quote:

- Server apps being dead and not listening on udp/443 but with no way to tell without access to the box as there is no longer a concept of "connection refused"

The bain is lovely CJs who cannot setup a firewall properly. Using socat appears to work quite well when you have a correct firewall setup,

code:

$ socat -d -d stdin UDP:debian.org:443
2018/11/14 23:37:05 socat[13387] N using stdin for reading and writing
2018/11/14 23:37:05 socat[13387] N opening connection to AF=2 149.20.4.15:443
2018/11/14 23:37:05 socat[13387] N successfully connected from local address AF=2 50.116.33.62:55400
2018/11/14 23:37:05 socat[13387] N starting data transfer loop with FDs [0,0] and [5,5]

2018/11/14 23:37:06 socat[13387] E read(5, 0x55ae542ceb20, 8192): Connection refused
2018/11/14 23:37:06 socat[13387] N exit(1)

quote:

- poorly implemented clients not nicely failing back to TCP

Like we're ever going to see poorly implemented HTTP/2 clients, they'll just stick with HTTP/1.x.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 00:38

pram: Jun 10, 2001

MononcQc posted:

I can't wait to have to pick and update web servers not only based on their HTTP handling, but also based on the various bugs their reordering, window sizing, and retransmission logic may contain.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 03:14

Doc Block: Apr 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

quic if u buic

# ? Nov 15, 2018 05:23

Sweevo: Nov 8, 2007; i sometimes throw cables away

i mean straight into the bin without spending 10+ years in the box of might-come-in-handy-someday first

im a fucking monster

there was a http 2?

# ? Nov 15, 2018 13:16

Silver Alicorn: Mar 30, 2008; 𝓪 𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓹𝓪𝓷𝓭𝓪 𝓲𝓼 𝓪 𝓬𝓾𝓻𝓲𝓸𝓾𝓼 𝓼𝓸𝓻𝓽 𝓸𝓯 𝓬𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓽𝓾𝓻𝓮

label 2 protocols http1 and http3 and set them loose in the google campus

# ? Nov 15, 2018 13:48

Doc Block: Apr 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

Sweevo posted:

there was a http 2?

yes. �what if HTTP but binary instead of text?�

# ? Nov 15, 2018 16:42

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

Http/2 is much more about multiplexing requests so that they don�t have to queue than it is just binary requests

A better analogy would be what if fastcgi, but a protocol

# ? Nov 15, 2018 17:04