[MAFIA] All Cops Are Bad

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Max: Nov 30, 2002

You have no problem with KB calling you scum with zero discussion about your actual casework or comments about other players?

# ? Jan 21, 2019 19:25

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 14:42

CCKeane: Jan 28, 2008; my shit posts don't die, they multiply

I'm ignoring KBs case entirely.

I think KRs big post on my fake claim is pretty bad. That is far more suspicious imo.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 19:30

KhediveRex: Jul 11, 2016; A poster to surpass Bifauxnen!

Max posted:

You have no problem with KB calling you scum with zero discussion about your actual casework or comments about other players?

Being called scum is part of this game. No, it doesn't bug me. When it happens the question is why. And whether that why is plausibly motivated by scummy intentions.

I think it's a huge stretch to imagine that KB decided to shoot himself in the foot to target me with the weakest case of his professional career, a case that makes him a touch uncomfortable at that.

On the other hand, I'm keeping a careful eye out for who campaigns during the last hours of the day. You kind of started that race with MMT and then jumped horses to KB. So far you haven't campaigned for anyone I actually find suspicious.

Jumping to my defense was odd. Except that it allowed you to push against KB. Jumping to Toal's defense was also a touch odd. Except in as much as it would allow you to push against me. As the day draws nearer to a close, you're the only one really pushing anyone. And you're on your second target so far.

Who is your top read Max?

# ? Jan 21, 2019 19:42

Max: Nov 30, 2002

KhediveRex posted:

Being called scum is part of this game. No, it doesn't bug me. When it happens the question is why. And whether that why is plausibly motivated by scummy intentions.

I think it's a huge stretch to imagine that KB decided to shoot himself in the foot to target me with the weakest case of his professional career, a case that makes him a touch uncomfortable at that.

It is part of the game but usually people are called scum for reasons that they either think are good or bad. I'm surprised you're waving away KB calling you scum and campaigning for you with such a weak argument when he could have actually argued against your actual casework in the game.

As for my top reads, at the moment I have an itch at the back of my head that says that the reason KB came up with this whole thing to begin with is that you're both scum buds together, KB was indeed the one that corrected you, and then thought he had a slam dunk smoking gun reason to call you out when it was actually just a really weak kind-of-but-not-really gotcha. Are you really surprised other people wouldn't look at that argument and have an issue with it? Because this is a really cool as a cucumber reaction you're giving here, and how I would play it as scum.

But that's all conjecture and WIFOM. I'm voting Kash right now because he hasn't really done much and I want to pressure him into participating, while waiting on MMT to come back, because as you said, I was on her as well. She checked in to say she'd post more later, so I'm holding off on that until I see posts from her.

With 6 hours from deadline, who do you want voted out?

# ? Jan 21, 2019 19:55

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

oh my god I forgot this game started

# ? Jan 21, 2019 20:01

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

I was going back to check out an old mafia game on votefinder and saw I was alive in this game and I was like oh poo poo

# ? Jan 21, 2019 20:02

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

I've got some work I have to get done and then I am cooking a pot roast tonight but I am gonna try and get back to this game gently caress the lurker rules are gonna be the end of me. I haven't read a single post of this game yet

# ? Jan 21, 2019 20:04

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

I just got home and am diving into this game right now. I should be around from now until deadline.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 20:35

Lux Anima: Apr 17, 2016; Dinosaur Gum

I am also ignoring King Burgundy's case(s) entirely, at least for now.

Lots of people seem to be grasping at straws currently, which is par for course on Day 1 I gather.

KhediveRex, you said that B-minus1 was acting odd and not nearly inquisitive enough for their usual self.

Do you think that's enough to vote them off Day 1?

I was going to vote Kashuno due to inactivity but now that they're here I want to see what they have to say.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 20:43

KhediveRex: Jul 11, 2016; A poster to surpass Bifauxnen!

Max posted:

Where could he have gotten that idea.

In reference to Keane voting Toal on the logic that Toal dismissed Keane as paranoid.

Max posted:

KB's case is predicated on you being corrected by someone in scum chat, not Toal.

In reference to my voting Toal on the logic that Toal didn't object to KB's case.

In both instances, Max makes very reasonable points that cast doubt on the conclusions reached by I and Keane. What stands out to me however, is that of three instances where Max defends a fellow poster, two of them are defenses of Toal. The third defense (of me) rounds quickly into an attack on KB, who Max had voted earlier in the thread.

In both circumstances, Max defends Toal before Toal has the chance to defend theirself. But Max goes on to scold SolusLunes for defending MMT before MMT had the chance to defend herself.

Max posted:

Because I felt like focusing on her. It's interesting that you didn't wait to see her respond to this before taking sides though.

This speaks to me of some kind of association or attachment with Toal.

Max's tenacity at the end of the day doesn't seem focused. It seems like they would vote any of MMT, KB, Rex or Kash, who ever has the thread attention at that time.

The standing vote on Kash is especially confusing because, a) Kash will be lurker gunned without us wasting a day on them. b) Theres been enough suspicious activity to justify having a decent read on someone and not settling for just lynching the hardest lurking lurker.

Pressuring the rest of us to settle on a vote because of the impending deadline while keeping her vote on Kash for ultimately political reason (wanting to pressure them into posting) during the final hours of an impending deadline isn't very coherent.

Max went from being the highest frequency joke poster early in the day to the person most excitedly pushing for a lynch now that time is dwindling.

Altogether, I think I'm happiest voting Max tonight.

##vote Max

# ? Jan 21, 2019 20:52

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

lmao I just joined the discord I didn't even realize that was a thing.

On page3

# ? Jan 21, 2019 20:55

b-minus1: Jul 24, 2008; She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before

I believe he is waiting for me to start tunneling hard. Sorry I don�t feel like going all in right this second. Tbh I�ve only skimmed the last few pages lol

# ? Jan 21, 2019 20:56

KhediveRex: Jul 11, 2016; A poster to surpass Bifauxnen!

Prince of Space posted:

KhediveRex, you said that B-minus1 was acting odd and not nearly inquisitive enough for their usual self.

Do you think that's enough to vote them off Day 1?

Not if there are better cases in the air. If literally nothing had happened Day 1 I'd be alright with a shot in the dark at Bminus or Asiina. But, a lot of interesting things have happened D1 and I think it's better to puzzle some of that together first.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 20:58

SolusLunes: Oct 10, 2011; I now have several regrets.

KhediveRex posted:

In reference to Keane voting Toal on the logic that Toal dismissed Keane as paranoid.

In reference to my voting Toal on the logic that Toal didn't object to KB's case.

In both instances, Max makes very reasonable points that cast doubt on the conclusions reached by I and Keane. What stands out to me however, is that of three instances where Max defends a fellow poster, two of them are defenses of Toal. The third defense (of me) rounds quickly into an attack on KB, who Max had voted earlier in the thread.

In both circumstances, Max defends Toal before Toal has the chance to defend theirself. But Max goes on to scold SolusLunes for defending MMT before MMT had the chance to defend herself.

This speaks to me of some kind of association or attachment with Toal.

Max's tenacity at the end of the day doesn't seem focused. It seems like they would vote any of MMT, KB, Rex or Kash, who ever has the thread attention at that time.

The standing vote on Kash is especially confusing because, a) Kash will be lurker gunned without us wasting a day on them. b) Theres been enough suspicious activity to justify having a decent read on someone and not settling for just lynching the hardest lurking lurker.

Pressuring the rest of us to settle on a vote because of the impending deadline while keeping her vote on Kash for ultimately political reason (wanting to pressure them into posting) during the final hours of an impending deadline isn't very coherent.

Max went from being the highest frequency joke poster early in the day to the person most excitedly pushing for a lynch now that time is dwindling.

Altogether, I think I'm happiest voting Max tonight.

##vote Max

As someone who always suspects Max I want to do a thing that flies in the face of 'don't defend someone else' again:

I don't have faith in freelynch lurker rules, and I imagine most people, including Max, don't either. I'm 100% down with lynching someone D1 for being a complete lurker, because freelynches never happening means that lurking is a safe place for scum to hide.

I don't think Max wanting to lynch Kashuno, a lurker, is a scum tell.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:00

Max: Nov 30, 2002

KhediveRex posted:

In reference to Keane voting Toal on the logic that Toal dismissed Keane as paranoid.

In reference to my voting Toal on the logic that Toal didn't object to KB's case.

In both instances, Max makes very reasonable points that cast doubt on the conclusions reached by I and Keane. What stands out to me however, is that of three instances where Max defends a fellow poster, two of them are defenses of Toal. The third defense (of me) rounds quickly into an attack on KB, who Max had voted earlier in the thread.

In both circumstances, Max defends Toal before Toal has the chance to defend theirself. But Max goes on to scold SolusLunes for defending MMT before MMT had the chance to defend herself.

This speaks to me of some kind of association or attachment with Toal.

Max's tenacity at the end of the day doesn't seem focused. It seems like they would vote any of MMT, KB, Rex or Kash, who ever has the thread attention at that time.

The standing vote on Kash is especially confusing because, a) Kash will be lurker gunned without us wasting a day on them. b) Theres been enough suspicious activity to justify having a decent read on someone and not settling for just lynching the hardest lurking lurker.

Pressuring the rest of us to settle on a vote because of the impending deadline while keeping her vote on Kash for ultimately political reason (wanting to pressure them into posting) during the final hours of an impending deadline isn't very coherent.

Max went from being the highest frequency joke poster early in the day to the person most excitedly pushing for a lynch now that time is dwindling.

Altogether, I think I'm happiest voting Max tonight.

##vote Max

I had like no heat on me, why would I be scrambling to make a lunch happen?

We are 5 hours from deadline with an uncomfortable spread of votes and everyone, EVERYONE in this game has said "wow this is a tough day 1." You find trying to consolidate votes near deadline when there has been very little activity scummy?

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:07

Max: Nov 30, 2002

I need to handle some bread stuff, but REST ASSURED I will be back to address the rest of that post, specifically about the Toal stuff.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:08

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

page 4

##vote Max all these cops confessing to crimes is pretty weird I haven't done poo poo

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:10

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

If I have to make a hard call, gonna say no. Scum Max is terrifying. Like, imagine you're a tree and all he wants to do is set you on fire, and he's really good at it.

Town Max Hmmms.

Murmur Twin posted:

##vote Max just in case.

I can see where this might not have been entirely clear to people, but this post was a reference to my secret life as a tree wizard. Here's a thing I wrote for t/d a year and a half ago for people who have no idea what I'm talking about.

Apologies if it came off as clique-y but it's not a post that I put a ton of thought into.

Max posted:

Weak vote, MMT

I'm pinged by Max taking my vote seriously - to me the vote was an obvious joke even if you don't know me very well, and Max does. The only reason I can see to criticize my vote is scummy self-consciousness.

Max posted:

Also MMT is playing into her scum meta. She's mostly commented on safe topics and hasn't made any hard calls about people's alignments based on how they are posting.

Sorry MMT, ILU but also die scum.

I have a meta scum read on Max based on this post - generally speaking, when I'm quiet on D1 Max brings up my meta but then says something like "but I want to give her a day or two just in case she's town". This time he went straight to me being scum, which to me says he's not curious about what my alignment is.

##vote Max

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:13

Max: Nov 30, 2002

I'm going to inline my responses because it's a large post.

KhediveRex posted:

In reference to Keane voting Toal on the logic that Toal dismissed Keane as paranoid.

In reference to my voting Toal on the logic that Toal didn't object to KB's case.

In both of these cases I'm responding to what I see as bad logic or completely incorrect reads, the second quote you realized changed things a lot. I usually do like to watch a good argument someone is making play out, but in your case it looked like you had a completely wrong read of what KB said. In Keane's case, I saw an inconsistency. I like to point these things out. Don't you?

In both instances, Max makes very reasonable points that cast doubt on the conclusions reached by I and Keane. What stands out to me however, is that of three instances where Max defends a fellow poster, two of them are defenses of Toal. The third defense (of me) rounds quickly into an attack on KB, who Max had voted earlier in the thread.

In both circumstances, Max defends Toal before Toal has the chance to defend theirself. But Max goes on to scold SolusLunes for defending MMT before MMT had the chance to defend herself.

I did because I think my reasoning was pretty good, thank you very much. Do you have a problem with my argument? Because you say nothing about what you think of the actual substance, just that I made one.

This speaks to me of some kind of association or attachment with Toal.

Max's tenacity at the end of the day doesn't seem focused. It seems like they would vote any of MMT, KB, Rex or Kash, who ever has the thread attention at that time.

Because it's 5 hours to deadline with multiple people saying "I'll be back later" and it looks like we're going to no-lunch, which is intolerable day 1.

The standing vote on Kash is especially confusing because, a) Kash will be lurker gunned without us wasting a day on them. b) Theres been enough suspicious activity to justify having a decent read on someone and not settling for just lynching the hardest lurking lurker.

Did you ignore my point about trying to get Kash to vote by putting pressure on him?

Pressuring the rest of us to settle on a vote because of the impending deadline while keeping her vote on Kash for ultimately political reason (wanting to pressure them into posting) during the final hours of an impending deadline isn't very coherent.

##vote Max

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:16

Max: Nov 30, 2002

Kashuno posted:

page 4

##vote Max all these cops confessing to crimes is pretty weird I haven't done poo poo

Love it when someone claims to haven't read anything then just votes based on beginning of day stuff.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:17

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

Max posted:

Love it when someone claims to haven't read anything then just votes based on beginning of day stuff.

relax buddy I am getting there

page 5 when does the game start for real

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:19

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

SolusLunes posted:

As someone who always suspects Max I want to do a thing that flies in the face of 'don't defend someone else' again:

I don't have faith in freelynch lurker rules, and I imagine most people, including Max, don't either. I'm 100% down with lynching someone D1 for being a complete lurker, because freelynches never happening means that lurking is a safe place for scum to hide.

I don't think Max wanting to lynch Kashuno, a lurker, is a scum tell.

What's your opinion of Max's alignment?

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:19

Max: Nov 30, 2002

Murmur Twin posted:

I can see where this might not have been entirely clear to people, but this post was a reference to my secret life as a tree wizard. Here's a thing I wrote for t/d a year and a half ago for people who have no idea what I'm talking about.

Apologies if it came off as clique-y but it's not a post that I put a ton of thought into.

I'm pinged by Max taking my vote seriously - to me the vote was an obvious joke even if you don't know me very well, and Max does. The only reason I can see to criticize my vote is scummy self-consciousness.

I have a meta scum read on Max based on this post - generally speaking, when I'm quiet on D1 Max brings up my meta but then says something like "but I want to give her a day or two just in case she's town". This time he went straight to me being scum, which to me says he's not curious about what my alignment is.

##vote Max

Normally yes but in those cases you've usually posted almost nothing. You've actually responded to and participated in other things this day that don't really involve reading other players posts.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:20

Max: Nov 30, 2002

Kashuno posted:

relax buddy I am getting there

page 5 when does the game start for real

I'm not your buddy.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:21

Max: Nov 30, 2002

Also you are one of three votes that just piled on me in quick succession, don't tell me to relax about that.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:21

Max: Nov 30, 2002

Also also roughly 4.5 hours left

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:22

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

Max posted:

I'm not your buddy.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:26

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

Murmur Twin posted:

##vote Max just in case.

Fair enough.

not good

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:26

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

Toalpaz setup spec is very bad but it existing is a null tell.

And with that, I am leaving work. ##unvote

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:28

votefinder: Jul 6, 2010; scoop scoop

Votecount for Day 1 :cop:

KhediveRex (2): 28766f69642a2930, King Burgundy

Max (2): Murmur Twin, SolusLunes, ~~SolusLunes~~, KhediveRex, Kashuno, ~~Murmur Twin~~, Murmur Twin, ~~Kashuno~~

Kashuno (2): Max, Tobbs Gnawed

Toalpaz (1): CCKeane, KhediveRex, ~~KhediveRex~~

Tobbs Gnawed (1): SolusLunes, b-minus1, ~~SolusLunes~~

Murmur Twin (1): BottleKnight

Prince of Space (0): King Burgundy, ~~King Burgundy~~

King Burgundy (0): Max, Tobbs Gnawed, ~~Tobbs Gnawed~~, ~~Max~~

BottleKnight (0): Tobbs Gnawed, ~~Tobbs Gnawed~~

Not Voting (7): Asiina, Hal Incandenza, hambeet, Kashuno, Prince of Space, SolusLunes, Toalpaz

With 16 cops still alive, it takes 9 votes to ban someone from CopCon.
The current deadline is January 21^st, 2019 at 8 p.m. EST -- that's in about 4 hours, 30 minutes.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:29

SolusLunes: Oct 10, 2011; I now have several regrets.

Murmur Twin posted:

What's your opinion of Max's alignment?

My opinion is that he's still scummy, but not for that specific reason.

The original reason I had a scummy read (insofar as I can read Max, I've been wrong in literally every game about him) on him was this, in response to his comments about your meta:

SolusLunes posted:

This is... inaccurate. I would argue that commenting on Keane's n0 paranoid cop claim isn't particularly safe.

On the other hand, I know I can't read you, and I try to remind myself to default to "never trust max". So:

##vote Max

Also because I erroneously believed that he'd voted you (when I'd just misread your vote on him).

Max posted:

Also you are one of three votes that just piled on me in quick succession, don't tell me to relax about that.

Town Max seems to generally have more chill than this? I'm also suspicious that Max made me back down on voting him despite my initial gut reaction.

##vote Max

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:33

SolusLunes: Oct 10, 2011; I now have several regrets.

gently caress you know what I just re-read things and I don't know what the gently caress anymore

I'm getting more caffeine

##unvote

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:34

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Max posted:

I'm quoting this to illustrate something else here. You have no strong reads. Some stuff happened since this post was made, that you even said you agree with. Then you make your post about Rex looking at the use of a single word but say absolutely nothing about their behavior this game otherwise, and vote them. Bad.

---

I've made connections like that before as well, but I generally keep that under my hat and pursue that suspicion by actually engaging with the person to get them to spill more info about other players, or press them in general to see how they react.

KB has completely skipped this step

Actually I think the biggest thing pinging me right now is the effort that Max has put into criticizing KB's case while still having a lurker vote on Kash. I think that Town Max would have either

(a) said "I don't agree with KB's case" and moved on, or
(b) accused KB of being scum and voted for him

Max's posts don't read like someone trying to solve a mystery to me.

King Burgundy posted:

Yeah, no.

So this post gives me another scum lean. There is no chance Max would see my post on KR and think that I was scum making up a case on this issue. He knows me well enough to know this was a really iffy subject for me to pursue for any reason and I wouldn't be making this up.

I agree with this.

Kashuno posted:

not good

Oh my god did literally this entire game think that was a real vote?

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:37

SolusLunes: Oct 10, 2011; I now have several regrets.

Murmur Twin posted:

Oh my god did literally this entire game think that was a real vote?

I thought it was a real vote!

Inside jokes are generally not known by people who weren't on the inside for them.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:39

Max: Nov 30, 2002

Murmur Twin posted:

Actually I think the biggest thing pinging me right now is the effort that Max has put into criticizing KB's case while still having a lurker vote on Kash. I think that Town Max would have either

(a) said "I don't agree with KB's case" and moved on, or
(b) accused KB of being scum and voted for him

Max's posts don't read like someone trying to solve a mystery to me.

I agree with this.

Oh my god did literally this entire game think that was a real vote?

Yes

I was going to come here and ask what you thought about my other thoughts but you beat me to it.

Anyway, thoughts to keep in mind:

Will KB be satisfied with KR continuing to not answer his question?
Does MMT agree with KB's read on KR? She doesn't really say one way or another, she just has a problem with me addressing it.

Those are just two but you get my drift.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:42

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

SolusLunes posted:

I thought it was a real vote!

Inside jokes are generally not known by people who weren't on the inside for them.

So Tobbs said "Max is dangerous at scum" and you think I thought "oh no that is a real thing I should base a real vote on"?

Like I can't be mad because apparently everyone thought it, I'm more just baffled by it.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:43

Max: Nov 30, 2002

Murmur Twin posted:

So Tobbs said "Max is dangerous at scum" and you think I thought "oh no that is a real thing I should base a real vote on"?

Like I can't be mad because apparently everyone thought it, I'm more just baffled by it.

I read it more as a really weak joke vote that was a little too self concious.

You posted a lot about me and the fact that I have made reads, but you don't say if you agree with them, or what your thoughts are on every other player in the game. Do you agree with KB's argument? KR's? Other people's conspicuous absence?

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:47

SolusLunes: Oct 10, 2011; I now have several regrets.

Murmur Twin posted:

So Tobbs said "Max is dangerous at scum" and you think I thought "oh no that is a real thing I should base a real vote on"?

Like I can't be mad because apparently everyone thought it, I'm more just baffled by it.

Okay yeah you're right, it was pretty clearly a jokevote in my mind.

Look I know I can't read Max worth a poo poo and I've told him so, and I can't trust him :tinfoil:

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:49

Max: Nov 30, 2002

SolusLunes posted:

Okay yeah you're right, it was pretty clearly a jokevote in my mind.

Look I know I can't read Max worth a poo poo and I've told him so, and I can't trust him

What are your thoughts on other players, in that case?

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:50

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 14:42

Max: Nov 30, 2002

As we round up on 4 hours to deadline, I guess that question is for everyone.

# ? Jan 21, 2019 21:50

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [MAFIA] All Cops Are Bad

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