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Paul.Power
Feb 7, 2009

The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.



President Ark posted:

combustion is specifically an internal combustion engine and space rockets are very much not internally combusting, so that's actually not that absurd

(it's still pretty absurd since moving the components and assembling everything without engines would be incredibly labor-intensive)
Lots and lots of steam engines :getin:.

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Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011




So we can't cross into the ice up north?

ssmagus
Apr 2, 2010
Assmagus, LPer ass-traordinaire

SSNeoman posted:

So we can't cross into the ice up north?

You might need some combustion engines for that.

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:


SSNeoman posted:

So we can't cross into the ice up north?

Like a lot of this game the answer is "You will be able to eventually, after another 3000 turns."

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008



Hey, I'm not dead!

Of course, I come back to all of you with a boring summary post instead of actually starting the Ancient Era, so feel free to chastise me all you want if that's not what you were hoping for. :v: The next progress update will be much sooner than a week later though, that's for sure.

The version of the mod is updated to SVN 10576, which has a number of somewhat major changes compared to last time I played. I go over the most pressing ones in this update and the next.

C2C Gameplay State of the Empire: Ancient Era




Our glorious empire, c. 31622 BC

Every time I enter a new era I plan on doing a summary of any new mechanics or changes that will dramatically affect gameplay as the era begins, followed by a detailed overview on where our empire stands. I've been pretty thorough in covering various events throughout the Prehistoric Era, but as the game starts ramping up and I get more cities and more things to do, I'll be writing updates with a bit of a wider lens, only focusing on the most immediate and important things. Therefore I hope that these periodic looks into more detailed info of the empire will give you all a clearer picture on what I've been doing with all of my units and build orders and whatnot.

Of course hopefully the next time I do this I won't take a two week break from the game beforehand :sweatdrop:

First off, though, the Ancient Era

Introduction to the Ancient Era



Sedentary Lifestyle is quite a tech, as you can see. The list of effects looks long but it more or less amounts to only a couple of major things to be aware of as we'll get to.



First order of business though, this tech gives us access to the Settler we all know and love. No more slow 1-move units, though considering the way terrain affects movement this might not be as big of an upgrade as it seems.



And yes, we finally get a real Worker! No more slow movement, no more dying upon completing an improvement, just a typical Civ 4 Worker.

This also means we can promote our Workers without fear of death now and specialize them for whatever terrain they happen to be working in.



Interestingly enough, Neanderthal Workers are a thing. They're twice as expensive but I think they work faster? Definitely not worth it.



As for the list of effects, we get a looot of obsoletes. I mentioned before that the Legendary Landscapes and Prehistoric Cave Group Wonders all obsolete upon reaching this tech, but a lot of Camp buildings for prehistoric animals also get the boot as well. The only relevant one for us was the Aurochs camp so it's not a huge deal. Also we can no longer build or gain the effects of the Neanderthal culture building, which begs the question of why Neanderthal Workers are a thing in the first place. :confused:



We also lose the science effects of a bunch of Myths, though fortunately the animal Myths get to shine a little bit longer. Science generation will quickly decentralize once those go away, so being able to build more cities becomes a lot more important as we head towards the next Eras.

Additionally, we get access to Might II! It grants an additional +1 base strength but requires the unit to already be level 5, so at least 26 XP needed.



But the big star of the Ancient Era is a new set of Group Wonders, the Ancient Way wonders.



I think the tooltip here explains a lot. Each Ancient Way wonder is designed to improve one particular Combat Type of unit throughout the Ancient Era. Most of the time this manifests as an additional base strength for said units, but for others there may be some different effects instead. This particular wonder, Ancient Way of the Centaur, provides a trait that improves all Mounted units. All Ancient Way wonders obsolete when we hit the Classical Era.

Now, I could have put the wonder we go for to a vote, but I'm pretty confident that would have been totally unnecessary.





I think we can all agree with this decision :shittydog:

And yes, this means Missile will have 5 movement if we get this :dogcited:



Tourism is now a thing too. With the Ancient Era we gain access to Tourism (Level 1) which brings a significant gold and culture boost at the cost of some bad increased Property rates. This will provide incentive to spread out wonders in our empire so we can get as many Tourism bonuses as possible.




Also new in the Ancient Era is more Education buildings. 25 Education grants slightly higher Anarchy and a significant yield boost. The extra specialist is pretty nice as well, though the extra required growth isn't. And yes, each level of Education does stack with one another.



Of course as our empire progresses through the ages, educating them to acceptable levels is going to require progressively more work. Thus each citizen in a city lowers the Education rate by an additional point.



This isn't strictly an Ancient Era thing as these wonders were made available in Celebration, but I thought I'd mention them quickly anyway. As you can see, each Grand Festival wonder provides some very significant boosts but also has some pretty significant requirements. I'm going to aim for getting all four of these though I hope I get at least two. My capital being the only city at size 6 or higher is pretty troubling on that front.

And that about covers it. Obviously this is just the beginning as the Ancient Era introduces a lot of new buildings and effects as we progress, and I hope I manage to take advantage of them for your entertainment. So with that out of the way, let's take a look at our empire.

---------------------------------------------------------

State of the Empire

***ECONOMY***




NOTE: These yields are all with the slider at 100% Espionage

A look at the ledger provides a quick peek at what each of our cities are doing. One alarming thing is that our cities are growing very slowly now*. Not just as a result of Education, but this updated version of the SVN has curbed growth a bit more as part of balancing. We'll have plenty of food to come by as we're pretty close to some important techs and civics, but it's worth noting.

*The red food icon is number of turns to grow.



Also worth noting is that there's a page in the ledger showing an easy summary of our Property values! This newly discovered page is going to be quite helpful to quickly determine if any of our cities are in need of Property control. Everything looks good for the time being, though the Education in Hattusas and Kummanini is worrying.



A more detailed look at where our commerce and gold are coming from and also what's causing all our expenses. Right now the brunt of our expenses are from all the units we're fielding, including all of the Property control units which cost additional extra gold to maintain in our cities. City Maintenance is also high, though only part of that is due to the natural expense from expansion. A lot of it is also maintenance imposed by specific buildings like the Log Bridge or Sentry Posts.




A list of all our current Map Bonuses. Most of these are being acquired via tile improvements, though quite a few are animal resources being acquired by the various Herd buildings built by captured animals. The amount of different Bonuses just on the map is quite daunting, and this is somehow only a fraction of what is available for us as we expand.





And this is the much longer list of our Manufactured Bonuses. These are strictly generated by buildings, sometimes via longer supply chains. An original version of this post was going to enumerate each of these bonuses, what buildings are providing them and what kind of yield bonuses they provide but in the end I scrapped it cause it seemed to be too much, at least when compiled along with everything else here. Just know that most of these do help a little bit each.

Now we take a more detailed look at all our cities. And no, before you say anything, I'm not going to be doing per-city overviews like this later in the game when I have several dozen of them instead of just five. I have plans for how I'll do things later in the LP, don't you worry.

Again, all yields (even Espionage this time) are shown with no additional increases from the slider.

Hattusas




Our capital and our current major powerhouse. This version of the SVN cut most all science multipliers from buildings in half to curtail super fast science generation, but for now it's not a huge deal as we're generating a ton of flat science in the capital and not much elsewhere. Looking at this just shows how vital the Myths are for science in the early game. As I said though, we're not going to have them forever so I need to be mindful on how I deal with that as the game continues. We don't actually get all that much commerce from our tile yields, at least not yet. Cottages are still a thing and I don't plan on neglecting them, don't you worry there.

Hattuses is also very close to our first natural Great Person, with pretty evenish odds between a Great Artist, Great Merchant, and Great Doctor. Will be nice to see how that goes.

Kanesh



115 turns to grow at +24 food, geez. It'll get better, I promise :v:

Not much to say here, solid population, solid tiles to work and most of its basic infrastructure already up. Hammers could be a bit better though. It's building a Stable now since it's the only city that can train Elephants, and I plan to take advantage of that in the near future.

Carchemish




This city is quickly distinguishing itself as a powerhouse in the making. It's only size 3, but it's already got almost all its infrastructure and even has a few wonders going for it. It'll have plenty of great tiles to grow to, especially as said tiles are improved to better versions courtesy of all my Gatherers-soon-to-be-Workers.

It'll also be the first to benefit from Tourism courtesy of Stonehenge.

Akuwa




Also a strong city in the making. Those Wheat and Fish tiles are going to provide a lot of useful food once I've reached better techs/civics to get my growth going. Also the site of our only Marble node, which will help for wonder building.

Since I haven't mentioned it yet, those two green nodes are actually Opium. Living in Akuwa must be the good life. :350:

Kummanni




This is definitely a much better city site than what I originally went for. My goodness, what was I thinking with that? The city is still in relative infancy as it continues to build basic infrastructure before going on to more interesting things.

I look forward to working the Silver and Obsidian tiles as the city grows. Having Barringer Crater will continue to be a huge boon to the city, as it never obsoletes as far as I know.

***MILITARY***

I haven't had time to cover the movements of most of my unit groups throughout the LP, so we'll fix that here.



Van Pelt is still hanging around near our territory, but he'll be heading out to the greater wilderness is due time. I'm still sad about what happened to Boksi :(



One of our Rogues is nearing Carthage and getting ready to steal some money. Just gotta make sure he isn't attacked before he enters the city.



Slightly East of Carthage are two parties actually. A Stone Spearman and Doge have been assisting my highly promoted Hunter with some tasks, including dealing with some Barbarian hordes and even gaining a Neanderthal captive in the process. To that end, I have some Ambushers with our Great General in tow ready to consolidate their captives and make their way home.



The other Rogue continues to sit in Berlin. I'll probably end up having him steal some money so he can do some recon elsewhere.



A Hunter-Scout party resides slightly Southeast of Paris. They've been hunting for animals but unfortunately they haven't had any good luck finding any. France in particular has a lot of units roaming around this area which is likely suppressing animal spawns.



Missile and Toby are assisting a Stone Spearman in keeping an eye on the Barbarians in Kutashuah and the surrounding lands. There are plenty of animals here to hunt so I plan to send Van Pelt to this area.



My Kayak out West is making its way around the Southwest bend of the continent past Assyria's lands. I don't know if they'll make it all the way around the Germany but I sure as heck am gonna try.



Meanwhile my other Kayak is hanging around with the merged War Canoe on Carthage's borders. They don't really have anything to do, so I'm just patrolling and keeping vision on my opponent.



Oh, did I neglect to mention that Elephant Riders can merge together like most other units? :getin: Even a fortified Atlatlist in a city is no match for a 12-strength unit, and he's parked around the barb city near my empire waiting for reinforcements.

I could attack into the city but it's pointless to take it while it's size 1 as it'll just auto-raze, and besides, I want to see the rhinos in action :black101:



And finally, Pupper, Baba, Boksi, and Koda are all in the peninsula near Carchemish continually hunting animals with one of my hunters. I've been using them mostly to grind experience on the Hunter, though now with Might II unlocked I'm going to want to promote my dogs ASAP.

All in all, still a lot of hunting and wandering around. The dogs have continued to be invaluable in getting Surround and Destroy bonuses to deal with particularly tough barbarian enemies and will likely remain in that role for a long, long time. :shittydog:

***STATISTICS/MISC.***

Or, boring stuff (more than usual anyway :v: ) that you probably don't care about but hey, I haven't shown any of this up to this point so might as well start now.



The Mastery Victory screen. The Mastery score takes quite a lot of things into account, and completing a Spaceship or getting Legendary cities will only add to that score. I'm curious about how high this number can get by the end of the game.

The fact that my closest competitor in Mastery score is one of the two civs I haven't met is slightly disconcerting.



Graphs! The AI not keeping up is almost certainly a function of them not having enough cities quickly enough. I expect China in particular to perform better in the future, especially once Science generation moves away from Myth building.



Demographics screen is pretty self-explanatory in most respects, at least if you've played Civ 4.



Seems like the game doesn't consider units that die to terrain damage as "lost", otherwise I'd have one more dog (rip Snarles Barkley) and two war canoes listed as lost.

I quite like how the mod tells me how many of each improvement I have, that's new as far as I know.

----------------------

NEXT TIME: Training a new work force, but at considerable cost. If only I could do something about my chronic lack of gold.

Sorry for the delay and for the boring summary post. Fortunately for you all the next update is already played and the images are all prepared so it shouldn't be more than a day or two until the next chapter of our progression.

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.



Does the map stop generating megafauna after the player advances to the ancient era? Having played my test game into the medieval era there seem to be a finite amount of megatheriums and glyptodons after a certain point is reached.

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface


I think so, I had a relict population of giant sloths on cuba which I fought tooth and nail to get within my border range so they wouldnt get killed by other nationa.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007



With the wolf upgrade dogs become unstoppable monsters, holy poo poo.

Slaan
Mar 16, 2009

I GAIN POWER FROM EATING PEOPLE, JUST ASSUME I'M ALWAYS VOTING TO EAT PEOPLE





Good boys and girls becoming Best dogs

megane
Jun 20, 2008





I hope you can somehow keep the doggos around long enough to have one destroy a tank.

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN


megane posted:

I hope you can somehow keep the doggos around long enough to have one destroy a tank.

"Release the anti-tank canines."
"Sir, are you sure? You know what happens we do that."
"Yes, the good doggos become the best doggos. And they retrieve scrap. Prepare the rhinosteak cutlets for their return!"
**Outside the command bunker, three dachshunds the size of Buicks rush off in their steel armor to hunt their favored prey once more.**

This sounded better in my head.

Deadmeat5150 fucked around with this message at 22:46 on May 11, 2019

Slaan
Mar 16, 2009

I GAIN POWER FROM EATING PEOPLE, JUST ASSUME I'M ALWAYS VOTING TO EAT PEOPLE





It sounded perfect in my head :swoon:

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




It's excellent on the page as well.

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface


Those future genetic engineered dogs can 100% destroy a tank, including the then future tanks if you use flanking and stuff.

They have 90 strength.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007



Telsa Cola posted:

Those future genetic engineered dogs can 100% destroy a tank, including the then future tanks if you use flanking and stuff.

They have 90 strength.

:stonk:

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk







Telsa Cola posted:

Those future genetic engineered dogs can 100% destroy a tank, including the then future tanks if you use flanking and stuff.

They have 90 strength.

Dr. Snark
Oct 15, 2012

I'M SORRY, OK!? I admit I've made some mistakes, and Jones has clearly paid for them.
...
But ma'am! Jones' only crime was looking at the wrong files!
...
I beg of you, don't ship away Jones, he has a wife and kids!

-United Nations Intelligence Service

Telsa Cola posted:

Those future genetic engineered dogs can 100% destroy a tank, including the then future tanks if you use flanking and stuff.

They have 90 strength.

*Bladewolfing Intensifies*

Caustic Soda
Nov 1, 2010


Unless they've fixed it, you can't actually build Neanderthal Workers, because Sedentary Living obsoletes the Neanderthal Culture needed to build them.

ssmagus
Apr 2, 2010
Assmagus, LPer ass-traordinaire

There's a whole bunch of culture units that get obsolete before you can build them, Units that are just straight worse than what they replace, have missing graphics, cannot be built in general, but work fine if you worldbuilder them in. The reason why is that the Guy who was implementing this stuff left the dev team, and nobody else understands what was going on with it.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011







Nazi doggo is not good doggo :colbert:

Besides, if you want a good doggo, go with one that you can ride in.

Thefluffy
Sep 7, 2014


since we are posting uber doggos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTQv2Iepr_c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQDvoJCEqsw :shittydog:

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007


Randalor posted:

Nazi doggo is not good doggo :colbert:

Besides, if you want a good doggo, go with one that you can ride in.



There are no bad doggos, only bad doggo owners.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Nazi doggo is a Nazi, therefore it's inheritently bad. You can have bad doggos, especially robot ones that are built to be bad doggos.

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.



ssmagus posted:

There's a whole bunch of culture units that get obsolete before you can build them, Units that are just straight worse than what they replace, have missing graphics, cannot be built in general, but work fine if you worldbuilder them in. The reason why is that the Guy who was implementing this stuff left the dev team, and nobody else understands what was going on with it.

It's strange that there aren't more map improvements tied to culture because things like the moai statues and nazca lines/geoglyphs actually add to the flavor of the game.

Sage Grimm
Feb 18, 2013

Let's go explorin' little dude!


The best future boi has a chainsaw for a tail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG2oddX15N8 :colbert:

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008



You guys already know the devs are watching this thread, be careful what you all wish for :colbert:

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN


Super Jay Mann posted:

You guys already know the devs are watching this thread, be careful what you all wish for :colbert:

It better be an anti-tank dachshund with a plasma cutter nose and a chainsaw tail. :colbert:

OOrochi
Jan 19, 2017


Sage Grimm posted:

The best future boi has a chainsaw for a tail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG2oddX15N8 :colbert:

:agreed:

President Ark
May 16, 2010

:iiam:


Sage Grimm posted:

The best future boi has a chainsaw for a tail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG2oddX15N8 :colbert:

:hmmyes:

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.



edit: I fixed it

zetamind2000 fucked around with this message at 02:29 on May 14, 2019

Little Abigail
Jul 21, 2011





College Slice

Well, this thread got me to update C2C and start a new game for the first time in half a year. 10 hours later and Iíve just reached the Ancient era and am once more reminded why I have multiple thousands of hours in Civ IV. Fingers crossed that you can make it to the modern era before 2020!

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.



Looking over the vast civilopedia it's kind of blowing my mind how much effort went into designing terrain, improvements, and vehicles for non-Earth tiles without there being a system in place to allow for the random map generator to actually create non-Earth tiles. Of course you can design your own maps to have space tiles and it works fine but not being able to use the space part of the game in random maps when the mod has so much space content is insane. It's one of the more overlooked bits of madness in C2C that gets overshadowed by the biotruths and endless cultural units.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008



overmind2000 posted:

Looking over the vast civilopedia it's kind of blowing my mind how much effort went into designing terrain, improvements, and vehicles for non-Earth tiles without there being a system in place to allow for the random map generator to actually create non-Earth tiles. Of course you can design your own maps to have space tiles and it works fine but not being able to use the space part of the game in random maps when the mod has so much space content is insane. It's one of the more overlooked bits of madness in C2C that gets overshadowed by the biotruths and endless cultural units.

From what I understand, that's because the end goal of all that space content is generating discrete maps for each planet/asteroid/whatever and switching between them, the current implementation of "space maps" where everything is on one map is just a stopgap to test the functionality because the guy who was originally implementing this multimap system is no longer on the team so they've been holding off implementing his work on that end until they figure out how the heck to do it.

Everything about this mod's development is madness and that's what makes it equal parts :allears: and :stare:

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007


Super Jay Mann posted:

From what I understand, that's because the end goal of all that space content is generating discrete maps for each planet/asteroid/whatever and switching between them, the current implementation of "space maps" where everything is on one map is just a stopgap to test the functionality because the guy who was originally implementing this multimap system is no longer on the team so they've been holding off implementing his work on that end until they figure out how the heck to do it.

Everything about this mod's development is madness and that's what makes it equal parts :allears: and :stare:

Canít wait to run a galactic empire of thousands of worlds, all broken down into normal Civ maps where I have to move individual units to plant space trees.

Obliterati
Nov 13, 2012

Pain is inevitable.
Suffering is optional.
Thunderdome is forever.


Pvt.Scott posted:

Can’t wait to run a galactic empire of thousands of worlds, all broken down into normal Civ maps where I have to move individual units to plant space trees. domesticate space megatherium

kw0134
Apr 19, 2003



Alexander the Great wept, lamenting that there was but one world to conquer. A Caveman2Cosmos dev tapped him on the shoulder and said "yo, check this poo poo out"

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:


Pvt.Scott posted:

Canít wait to run a galactic empire of thousands of worlds, all broken down into normal Civ maps where I have to move individual units to plant space trees.

You laugh but the devs have mentioned wanting to implement galactic panspermia at some point, so pretty much literally this.

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface


Pvt.Scott posted:

Can’t wait to run a galactic empire of thousands of worlds, all broken down into normal Civ maps where I have to move individual units to plant space trees.

Pax Nora is attempting to do this.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011




Pvt.Scott posted:

Canít wait to run a galactic empire of thousands of worlds, all broken down into normal Civ maps where I have to move individual units to plant space trees.

as god intended

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Yessod
Mar 21, 2007


Pvt.Scott posted:

Canít wait to run a galactic empire of thousands of worlds, all broken down into normal Civ maps where I have to move individual units to plant space trees.

I too have played Emperor of the Fading Suns.

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