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https://www.apnews.com/569631f2b11c400cac05a29e0853624b cool justice system
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Mar 8, 2019 17:32
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I was going to say "I thought people couldn't be compelled to testify in matters that might incriminate them" but then I realized the USA is a demon nation with a human face mask and probably the fact that it is a 'grand jury' nullifies those rights. Lol!
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Mar 8, 2019 21:26
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the bill of rights doesn't kick in until you make at least six figures
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Mar 8, 2019 21:33
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All my lib friends now hate her after 2016. Wikileaks went from good to bad, not sure all the reasons since I haven't been following it closely. Chelsea being a Putin puppet probably.
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Mar 8, 2019 21:46
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Wikileaks is bad because they leak things that are anti-US more than anti-Russian. Whether or not that's a purposeful effort on their part or just coincidence given what they have access to leak is a bit immaterial to me because a) obviously all sources have their biases and b) the actual leaks themselves aren't fake or untrue as far as I know. So the worst they can be accused of is selectively leaking things to make the USA look worse than other countries? I dunno but whistleblowers are heros imo and Chelsea Manning especially given that she leaked some truly heinous poo poo and that no one actually died as a result of her leaking that data (afaik). quote:WikiLeaks named the Baghdad airstrike video "Collateral Murder", and Assange released it on April 5, 2010, during a press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.[146] The video showed two American helicopters firing on a group of 10 men in the Amin District of Baghdad. Two were Reuters employees there to photograph an American Humvee under attack by the Mahdi Army. Pilots mistook their cameras for weapons. The helicopters also fired on a van, targeted earlier by one helicopter, that had stopped to help wounded members of the first group. Two children in the van were wounded, and their father was killed. Do you guys remember that video? I do. Those cameras looked nothing at all like weapons and I'm not even a trained eye. wikipedia posted:In the first strike, the crews of two Apaches directed 30 mm cannon fire at a group of ten Iraqi men, including some armed men, standing where insurgents earlier that day had shot at an American Humvee with small arms fire. Among the group were two Iraqi war correspondents working for Reuters, Saeed Chmagh and Namir Noor-Eldeen. Seven men (including Noor-Eldeen) were killed during this first strike, and Saeed Chmagh was injured. "including some armed men" lol no they loving weren't COMRADES has issued a correction as of 21:58 on Mar 8, 2019 |
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Mar 8, 2019 21:55
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basically you have no rights if the government thinks you've threatened national security
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Mar 8, 2019 21:57
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Nothing in there about what law she broke, but I bet it ends up having something to do with Obama commuting her sentence instead of just pardoning her lol
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Mar 8, 2019 21:57
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quote:The Guantánamo Bay files leak (also known as The Guantánamo Files, or colloquially, Gitmo Files)[1] began on 25 April 2011, when WikiLeaks, along with several independent news organizations, began publishing 779 formerly secret documents relating to detainees at the United States' Guantánamo Bay detention camp established in 2002 after its invasion of Afghanistan in 2001.[1] The documents consist of classified assessments, interviews, and internal memos about detainees, which were written by the Pentagon's Joint Task Force Guantanamo, headquartered at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base. The documents are marked "secret" and NOFORN (information that is not to be shared with representatives of other countries).[2] How loving dare she expose the USA for the demon nation that it is.
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Mar 8, 2019 21:59
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sleeptalker posted:Nothing in there about what law she broke, but I bet it ends up having something to do with Obama commuting her sentence instead of just pardoning her lol a grand jury is very very different from a regular jury. juries are the bodies who find cops guilty of murder when they shoot unarmed black people, grand juries are the bodies wh decide that actually the cop acted lawfully and its not worth having a trial about. refusing to give a statement to a grand jury when they decide that actually not giving a statement isn't a valid invocation of constitutional rights is contempt of court, which carries with it a jail sentence of "however the gently caress long we feel like" and basically your only recourse is bugging the SCOTUS about it.
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Mar 8, 2019 22:03
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sleeptalker posted:Nothing in there about what law she broke, but I bet it ends up having something to do with Obama commuting her sentence instead of just pardoning her lol it's what happens always if you refuse to testify to a grand jury. they can hold you indefinitely, until the grand jury expires. then the next grand jury, if they call you to testify can also hold you indefinitely. i learned this from a very special episode of rockford files
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Mar 8, 2019 22:08
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quote:She said prosecutors have granted her immunity for her testimony, which eliminates her ability to invoke her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. The american legal system is calvinball run by and for the scummiest, weakest pieces of poo poo on earth.
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Mar 8, 2019 22:08
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lol that owns
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Mar 8, 2019 22:11
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I'm not a legal expert or anything but couldn't she have just agreed to testify and then answer every question with "I don't recall." Or does that only work if you're a level 99 lawyer who's daddy plays golf with the judge?
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Mar 8, 2019 22:33
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Koishi Komeiji posted:I'm not a legal expert or anything but couldn't she have just agreed to testify and then answer every question with "I don't recall." Or does that only work if you're a level 99 lawyer who's daddy plays golf with the judge? short answer yes. long answer: the issue with that is she's previously testifed on all this poo poo, so that act isn't going to work, and false statements to a grand jury are--you guessed it!--not just contempt of court with an indefinite sentence, but a perjury charge atop it.
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Mar 8, 2019 22:36
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also you might be conflating congressional testimony https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IBvZlRqOTw with a criminal trial, which is different. you lie to congress, you hurt their feelings. you lie to a grand jury, judges and prosecutors get to go buck wild on your entire rear end.
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Mar 8, 2019 22:38
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Doing that when youve gone on record to the contrary is a set-up for perjury charges
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Mar 8, 2019 22:41
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Can't she claim she doesn't remember anymore? Probably not but presumably they'd have to prove that she still remembers what she previously said idk.
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Mar 8, 2019 22:42
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you also don't have the right to counsel at a grand jury iirc
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Mar 8, 2019 22:42
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Radirot posted:All my lib friends now hate her after 2016. Wikileaks went from good to bad, not sure all the reasons since I haven't been following it closely. Chelsea being a Putin puppet probably. Wikileaks was clearly bought out. Very few people in the world are immune to the lure of big money.
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Mar 8, 2019 22:44
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COMRADES posted:Can't she claim she doesn't remember anymore? Probably not but presumably they'd have to prove that she still remembers what she previously said idk. yeah no that cutesy poo poo does not fly in a grand jury short of like Actual Fuckin' Brain Damage that can be proven to absolute exhaustion. Al! posted:you also don't have the right to counsel at a grand jury iirc YUUUUUUUUUUUP. quote:As stated in Brewer v. Williams, 430 U.S. 387 (1977), the right to counsel “[means] at least that a person is entitled to the help of a lawyer at or after the time that judicial proceedings have been initiated against him, whether by formal charge, preliminary hearing, indictment, information, or arraignment.”[2] Brewer goes on to conclude that once adversarial proceedings have begun against a defendant, he has a right to legal representation when the government interrogates him[3] and that when a defendant is arrested, “arraigned on [an arrest] warrant before a judge,” and “committed by the court to confinement,” “[t]here can be no doubt that judicial proceedings ha[ve] been initiated.” Willie Tomg posted:The american legal system is calvinball run by and for the scummiest, weakest pieces of poo poo on earth.
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Mar 8, 2019 22:50
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lol i remember when a bunch of twitter shits were convinced she was a CIA asset. I'm sure they'll delude themselves into having an explanation for this turn of events
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Mar 8, 2019 22:51
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bottom line is chelsea is brave as gently caress for standing up to a grand jury because they have full license to gently caress your poo poo up horrifically because the idea that our shoddy constitution guarantees rights and freedoms in the legal system is a huge joke
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Mar 8, 2019 22:54
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COMRADES posted:How loving dare she expose the USA for the demon nation that it is. My favorite was the US using drones in Afghanistan to kill goat herders they suspected could be OBL based on the evidence "They were tall"
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Mar 8, 2019 22:55
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quote:Individuals subject to grand jury proceedings do not have a Sixth Amendment right to counsel because grand juries are not considered by the U.S. Supreme Court to be criminal proceedings which trigger the protections of that constitutional protection.[4] not a criminal proceeding but we can jail you and take your freedom away over it  it really is fuckin calvinball
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Mar 8, 2019 23:00
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wonder if this will dispel the tankie conspiracy theory that she (along with that Hell of a Way to Die podcast guy, the West Point commie, and Snowden) is a psyop.
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Mar 8, 2019 23:02
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Willie Tomg posted:short answer yes. long answer: the issue with that is she's previously testifed on all this poo poo, so that act isn't going to work, and false statements to a grand jury are--you guessed it!--not just contempt of court with an indefinite sentence, but a perjury charge atop it. can the fact that she's already testified to most of this stuff also be used as rationale to ignore her 5th amendment right to avoid self-incrimination?
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Mar 8, 2019 23:05
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anotherone posted:can the fact that she's already testified to most of this stuff also be used as rationale to ignore her 5th amendment right to avoid self-incrimination? that's a lot of effort to go through to get to the same place they got to in far fewer steps. she's immune to any possible charge in this case, therefore cannot be incriminated by herself or anyone else, therefore she dines on Nutri-Loaf until she snitches thereby introducing evidence into this case that was provided in other cases.
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Mar 8, 2019 23:14
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are grand juries chosen the same way normal juries are? I've known plenty of people who have had jury duty but never anyone who served in a grand jury. though that might just be because they are more rare idk
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Mar 8, 2019 23:14
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imagine going to jail in 2019 to protect julian assange of all people
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Mar 8, 2019 23:16
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Pizza Segregationist posted:are grand juries chosen the same way normal juries are? I've known plenty of people who have had jury duty but never anyone who served in a grand jury. though that might just be because they are more rare idk yes, but also no they come from the same general population of people as trial jurors and are called the same way but the selection process is somewhat less involved since there's no defense/prosecution striking of jurors (i.e. its generally just a judge asking a few questions) and then if they're selected they stay on the grand jury from a month to a year, sitting a couple of times per week to review different cases
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Mar 8, 2019 23:20
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Al! posted:bottom line is chelsea is brave as gently caress for standing up to a grand jury because they have full license to gently caress your poo poo up horrifically because the idea that our shoddy constitution guarantees rights and freedoms in the legal system is a huge joke yeah, and they're going to torture her again, her lawyer's request to have her put in home confinement or otherwise put in a situation where her medical needs are met has been rejected
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Mar 8, 2019 23:22
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anotherone posted:can the fact that she's already testified to most of this stuff also be used as rationale to ignore her 5th amendment right to avoid self-incrimination? The prosecution has granted her immunity, so that removes the possibility of asserting the 5th. You can be compelled to testify if granted immunity, Kastigar v. United States (1972). As for previous testimony, it's not a bright line. You cannot use the 5th to selectively testify in a single proceeding, and waiving your rights in one proceeding does not necessarily (but can, depending on the judge) waive your rights in further proceedings. Also, speaking publicly on a topic can also preemptively waive your rights (again depending on the judge), which is going to make things very interesting for Roger Stone if he decided to testify during his own trial. She is claiming to assert her 4th, 6th and 8th Amendment rights in refusing to testify. Right to counsel (6th) has already been addressed by SCOTUS as not required for grand jury, but it at least makes sense. 4th and 8th are understandable for the actual jailed for contempt result, but are really odd claims when it comes to rights to assert against giving testimony. I get that this is the hill she's chosen to die on (refusing to testify in a secret proceeding), but I seriously question the competency of the legal advice she's getting.
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Mar 8, 2019 23:23
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Laws and whatever shenanigans aside,quote:“I will not participate in a secret process that I morally object to, particularly one that has been used to entrap and persecute activists for protected political speech,” she said in a statement released after she was taken into custody. She's not in the wrong.  And holding someone indefinitely until they do what you want isn't justice it is extortion.
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Mar 8, 2019 23:31
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its entirely how snitches get made past the street level, yeah. it just lacks a particular dramatic flair, so americans are largely ignorant of it since procedurals on the teevee tend to gloss over grand jury proceedings.
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Mar 8, 2019 23:34
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:imagine going to jail in 2019 to protect julian assange of all people might not be the only person shes protecting. wikileaks and leaking poo poo from american government agencies and political parties is good.
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Mar 9, 2019 01:58
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 LOCK! HER! UP!
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Mar 9, 2019 02:01
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when you think about it, getting locked in prison with members of the aryan brotherhood is the hard mode version of doing an escape room with proud boys, so i wish chelsea luck (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 9, 2019 02:03
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those arent proud boys those are dc journo dorks.
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Mar 9, 2019 02:08
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Darkman Fanpage posted:those arent proud boys those are dc journo dorks. / 
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Mar 9, 2019 02:14
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prime example. not a proud boy.
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Mar 9, 2019 02:20
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