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Bloody Emissary posted:Mysteries with a lot of unusual, nonintuitive parameters that you need to spend a lot of time establishing and explaining are universally bad. It's nearly always difficult to follow the threads of logic, which makes twists and turns in the investigation less impactful and therefore keeps the mystery from being compelling. The involvement of the virtual world was bad enough, and then what's supposed to be an enormous twist is a well-established video game concept. It's the weakest trial in the game by far, IMO. hold on can we establish how many sides an octogon has, Hajime?
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Jul 11, 2020 10:40
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 01:34 |
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The general arc of the game and the mysteries don't seem to be that hard to figure out, but it's in the details (and sometimes the craziness) of how it plays out that make these games entertaining. The formula starts to become a little familiar as well over the series. At this point I can practically guess how the rest of the game goes: Kokichi is the culprit here (probably because he uncovered a 'plot' of Miu's, but he wants to make sure that if he gets caught, it will be because Shuichi and the rest are competent enough, so that his 'sacrifice' is worth something). Then Kaito dies due to whatever terminal illness he has going on [initially I was thinking he was slowly being poisoned, which is a possibility, but if so, the culprit is probably a previous victim so nobody new dies] and that forces Shuichi to no longer be a sidekick. Finally, Tsumugi is revealed as evil all along because she's had next to zero character development. That leaves us with five decent characters as survivors: two guys, two girls, and the
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Jul 11, 2020 16:59
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.png) Well that's just plain rude.
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Jul 11, 2020 17:18
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Next to zero character development means she's going to survive until the end. See Hagakure.
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Jul 11, 2020 20:07
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But she hasn't been considered a suspect yet, so who knows how she'll end up.
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Jul 11, 2020 21:39
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:
Yeah! You can't treat someone who is plainly best girl like that.
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Jul 12, 2020 00:28
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   *gasp!* Father... Why do you know Monophanie's cycle...? Never mind that... Perhaps this lack of motivation is due to a lack of hibernation. Lack of hibernation...? Yeah... I haven't been sleeping well lately, so I haven't really been able to hibernate... That's awful... What could be causing it? Is it cuz you have a lot on your mind? Hmm... Is it cuz the graveyard shift pays a better hourly wage? Hmmmm... Is it cuz you don't want them to think you're just goofing around? Hmmmmmm... Is it cuz you wanna stay friends? Hmmmmmmmm... Is it cuz you wanna watch it in real-time? ...... ...Father? He's gone into hibernation... We should let him be... Yeah, you're right... Night, night.VIDEO: Post-Intermission   .png) I-I feel like I'm forgetting someone important to me, but...ugh...I-I just can't... Ugh! M-My head! .png) ...If you've forgotten, maybe that's for the best..png) From this point forward, let's start a new life for ourselves..png) After all...our baby is excited to meet his daddy, y'know?  .png) More importantly...let's continue the conversation where we left off..png) We understand Miu plotted the murder, but we need to find out who killed her..png) And in order to figure that out, we need to understand Miu's actions... .png) I know that's important, but hearing you lead the conversation really pisses me off..png) Let's see, Miu manipulated the Virtual World to use it as part of her murder plan....png) Don't just ignore me and start anyway... .png) and then—WHAM!—murdered me on the roof with the hammer..png) She would make the murder seem like it happened in the real world, and then pin it on Kaito..png) As for Miu's alibi in the real world, she could say she was logged into the Virtual World....png) And in the Virtual World, she could say she was near the chapel the entire time.  .png) Whoops, my hand slipped. KOKICHI: She dropped the bridge on purpose, so she could separate the chapel from the mansion...   KOKICHI: Oh yeah...Kaito was probably logged out around that time, too. TSUMUGI: That's when I saw Miu...  She was killed on the roof, right? Kokichi told us the roof door was locked, and that he couldn't get through..png) Maybe...that when culprit kill her? .png) Did the culprit lock the door to the roof?.png) Perhaps. I don't think Miu did it..png) If Miu did lock it, she would have done it when she called Kokichi to the roof. Even if someone came up, I don't believe she would change the target of her plan. .png) Well, it's possible she didn't even think that far ahead....png) She was smart... But she was also really, really dumb..png) N-No say such mean things..png) Killing game bad, not Miu. .png) That...might've been difficult. Even without this killing game..png) That wouldn't happen..png) Nuh-uh. No way, Jose. Huh? The culprit must have moved Miu's avatar to the chapel after killing her, right? So the next thing we should talk about is how they moved her avatar. HIMIKO: But the problem is the wall between them. KEEBO: Only Miu was able to go through that wall. The culprit wouldn't have been able to...  TSUMUGI: Yeah, that's the only way, right?  I mean, it's not like they coulda thrown her. We know. You couldn't because the avatars' physical strength was equalized..png) Physical strength...equalized? Geez, keep up with us. We're already in the second half of the class trial..png) Hmmm... How did they send Miu's avatar to the other side of the wall?  SHUICHI: Ah!? TSUMUGI: Wh-What!? What was that sound!?  That's when you found the dead Miu there, riiiiight? If so, then I think that sound and her avatar being by the chapel are related... Yes, there's no doubt in my mind that the noise is related to this case. We need to figure out what that sound could have been... .png) So what was it? It sounded like something slamming hard into something else... So what were those two things? It could be...    SHUICHI: Ruling those out, the only other explanation is that the sound was Miu colliding with the wall.  .png) We felt the impact all the way from the inside of the chapel. Yeah, that's the real question. Miu's avatar probably hit the chapel's wall with pretty considerable force....png) But why did it hit the wall with such force? Can you guys figure it out?  .png) ...Let's not worry about that right now..png) More importantly, we gotta solve the mystery! Fighting among friends is a waste of time. .png) Anyway...can we talk about that after we figure this problem out? A way of transporting Miu's avatar that would cause it to crash into the chapel... Getting Miu's avatar to crash into the chapel from the mansion's roof... There's only one way I can think of how to do that. .png) ...You'll what? KOKICHI: Past the brick handrail, the roof was at a pretty steep slope... And the slope faced the chapel wall. On top of that, there was snow on the roof.  .png) ... .png) But I can't let him distract me. I need to solve the case. How to make Miu hit the chapel wall from the roof of the mansion... MUSIC: Hangman's Gambit Ver3.0 VIDEO: Hangman's Gambit #2        .png) Nah, man. Even with the slope and the snow, Miu's body wouldn't have slid—.png) Wrong. It would slide. But the avatars can generate friction. We wouldn't have been able to walk, otherwise. So I doubt that it would have had *that* much momentum. .png) It wouldn't slide! Just like Maki Roll said!   I'm positive that that's how Miu's avatar was moved. But... Maybe the culprit used something else as well to help her body slide.MUSIC: V3 Argument -PERJURY- VIDEO: Nonstop Debate #7    .png) Would it slide off that quickly? If it made that much noise....png) it must have built up a lot of speed. .png) but not frozen solid, right? .png) In the real world, it might be difficult... but in the Virtual World, perhaps not. That's not the issue....png) Sliding down snow is easy to do!   There was something left at the crime scene that would help... Why else would the lattice be where it was?     SHUICHI: The culprit laid her on top of that, then used it as a sled on the roof.       KOKICHI: ...and slid her down the roof's steep slope!   SHUICHI: glided through the wall only objects could pass through, and hit the chapel.   .png) Just like that hedgehog who loses all his rings whenever he crashes into stuff... .png) Daddy...I'm glad you're feeling motivated again, but you shouldn't be so hateful. You...gotta be an example to our new family..png) Yeah, Father. Or should I start calling you "Grandfather" now? ...  ... The culprit... Y-Yeah... In the end, we'll still need to guess the culprit, huh? But...Gonta can't believe one of us killed Miu. .png) Meaning, the culprit must be someone who was investigating the mansion. Aside from Miu, the people at the chapel could not go through the wall or cross the river. So that means...the suspects are Kaito, Tsumugi, Shuichi, and Gonta... Nee-heehee... Oh, you got me. That's right, five suspects... Me, Tsumugi, Gonta, Kokichi and Kaito. We don't know enough to name the culprit yet, but one of them is suspicious... When we were talking about the rooftop, they clearly lied... .png) I'll need to press them for information before making any judgments. We could have asked this question anytime, really.   Hm? What do you need to know? Why did you lie just now? Which lie are you talking about, Shuichi? I lie a lot, so you'll need to jog my memory. Fine. I'll expose your lie right now...   It was that testimony that bothered me.Next time, I'd like to see ol' Kokichi Oma wriggle his way out of THIS jam! Solitair fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Sep 28, 2023 |
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Jul 14, 2020 20:44
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Kokichi going full on Chaos Mode
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Jul 14, 2020 21:18
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Solitair posted:When we were tal king about the rooftop, they clearly lied... Typo here.
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Jul 14, 2020 21:22
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God I'm so tired of the lovely incest bears Aha, I got it, they SLID THE BODY, right??? Please tell me the lie bullet here is Signboard Used as a Bridge -> Signboard Used as a Sled
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Jul 14, 2020 22:44
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The chronic liar lied? I am shocked, shocked I say!
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Jul 14, 2020 22:57
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Solitair posted:
Aha, so Jim Carrey is the mastermind! Procrastine posted:God I'm so tired of the lovely incest bears 
Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jul 14, 2020 |
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Jul 14, 2020 23:12
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really hoping kokichi isn't the culprit, if only because that's the most boring possible answer. i need my last minute plot twist, and "the incredibly suspicious guy who lies all the time and is clearly evil did it" is really unsatisfying
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Jul 14, 2020 23:39
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Beat me before I could emptyquote Anyway, I'm real curious what anyone who's still unspoiled is thinking at this point. Whether Kokichi did it, or didn't do it, either way what the hell was his plan here? I was very confused when I played through myself.
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Jul 14, 2020 23:57
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Man I would feel bad Miu considering everyone is dunking on her and saying they never would have been her friend, if it were not for the fact she was so lovely in a super amusing way.
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Jul 15, 2020 00:13
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Bifauxnen posted:Beat me before I could emptyquote Sadly I saw someone's profile pic on youtube that was what seemed to be a screenshot of one of the characters doing a post-getting-caught crazy despair face so I can't speculate completely blindly, though they could still be the Ch5 killer and not Ch4. (Also I know the Ch6 Big Twist from seeing discussion when the game came out.) At this point I have no idea what Kokichi is trying to do and I'm just along for Mr. Liar's Wild Ride. Did he do it and is trying to do some crazy triple-loop master plan that requires him to be caught so now he's giving hints to Shuichi? Is he planning on making everyone dependent on Shuichi so he can murder him next chapter and be left with less competent people for the trial? Is he just being a dick for the hell of it? (Yes)
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Jul 15, 2020 00:15
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All the evidence is pointing to Kokichi but why would he have been trying to help out Shuichi during the trial if so? Like he’s coming off as trying to help which makes no sense if he did it. If you try to metagame it, it’s not Shuichi because the game already pulled that trick on us with better protagonist Kaede and Kaito was in the real world. I guess on an emotional level it being Gonta would hurt the worst but it makes the least sense for it to be him because he doesn’t understand the virtual world at all and he doesn’t strike me as a good actor to be faking ignorance. Kokichi is the boring answer and Tsumugi is...just kinda there, there would be no impact. So yeah, confused.
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Jul 15, 2020 00:26
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So miu body swaped with kokichi and killed Kokichi in her body so the people woud vote for the « wrong » person
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Jul 15, 2020 01:19
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New Wave Jose posted:So miu body swaped with kokichi and killed Kokichi in her body so the people woud vote for the « wrong » person The body swapping does seem like it should come up since it’s been foreshadowed, but I don’t remember Kokichi ever acting like anyone but himself, and I don’t think Miu is that skilled. If body swapping is a thing, it seems likely Himiko is involved, both because she had trouble with the cords and she also had changed behavior in the simulation when her opinion of her avatar shifted. Other than that though, there don’t seem to be any flags pointing at her.
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Jul 15, 2020 05:45
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Solitair posted:
"Sonic, but, you are a videogame character..." "Well, that's ironic, because..." And, by the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zhPhow2EGE
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Jul 15, 2020 20:34
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I'm still riding on my theory of miu only changed one avatar's status but keebo was already an object because he was a robot and thus could also cross the wall and be a surprise suspect.
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Jul 16, 2020 05:54
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I hope its not kokichi because he's the only interesting character left. it's a real shame that they kill off the fun ones and leave the boring ones
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Jul 16, 2020 10:41
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Mirello posted:I hope its not kokichi because he's the only interesting character left. it's a real shame that they kill off the fun ones and leave the boring ones Do you want to die?
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Jul 16, 2020 10:55
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If body swapping is a thing, I've really been keeping my eye on Gonta, especially with his repeated insistance that they were just "sleeping" while in the virtual world. He would definitely be the easiest person in the group to impersonate, as well. Also I'm really getting tired of his one shtick of just being really stupid and taking up time by needing to have very basic concepts explained to him, so I hope he's the next one to go 
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Jul 16, 2020 11:58
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Hagakure V3. 
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Jul 16, 2020 12:22
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Hagakure V3. No, Tsumugi is the Hagakure! She's the one who was all goin on about dumb ghost poo poo before!
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Jul 16, 2020 12:41
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Hey, at least Hagakure was pretty funny and had a personality beyond going "I no understand simple concept" and mentioning being a gentleman ever so often 
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Jul 16, 2020 12:50
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I have to admit that I've semi-frequently forgotten that Gonta and Keebo exist.
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Jul 16, 2020 13:21
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 MUSIC: Mind Mine VIDEO: Mind Mine #2   Thought you were getting used to Mind Mine, huh? Well, now there are four colors!        KOKICHI: Past the brick handrail, the roof was at a pretty steep slope... And the slope faced the chapel wall. On top of that, there was snow on the roof.   And the slope faced the chapel wall. On top of that, there was snow on the roof. But you wouldn't know about the brick handrail unless you went up to the roof yourself. ... .png) What's this all about, Kokichi? Did you actually go to the rooftop?.png) I-I-I...d-didn't... I already t-told you that b-before....png) Why you look so nervous?.png) Is this a sincere reaction?   .png) At the start of the class trial, I remember you saying the handrail was made of bricks. .png) I-Is it my fault...?.png) Himiko really say that?      .png) Puhuhu, what a worthless fight. Stop them, Grandpa! All this terrible fighting is bad for the baby!.png) Yeah, Grandfather! Stop them before your grandkid is born! ...  .png) How much longer are you going to behave like this? We don't have time for this... But if he's being this stubborn, it makes me think he has something to hide. I might not like it. but...I have to be aggressive. MUSIC: V3 Argument -PERJURY- VIDEO: Nonstop Debate #8   .png) I didn't go to the roof!.png) I've had enough of your lies, man!.png) I'm not lying!    .png) Liars burn in hell, y'know!?  .png) Then why do you look so nervous? I have to fight fire with fire! We finally have him right where we want him.    ...Huh? Lying about what? Just before the murder occurred, I went to the salon to check on you.  I waited there for a while. You never showed up..png) What's this all about, Kokichi?.png) Didn't you go right back to the salon after finding the roof door locked? ... ... So, who are you guys gonna believe? Shuichi...or me? I believe Shuichi 100%! The one who's not Kokichi. .png) But to go to the salon, Shuichi would need to pass by me in the dining room....png) Umm... I wonder why I didn't notice Shuichi there... ... .png) Sorry, but...Gonta believe Shuichi, too..png) Ah, I see... I wanted at least Gonta to believe me... Heh, what comes around goes around! That's what happens to liars like you! There's only one truth, but endless possibilities for lies, y'know? And some of them are only white lies, or lies to be kind to people....png) If you deny all of that *just* because it's a lie...  .png) Isn't that where he met up with Miu?.png) No, he didn't just meet her there. He probably ki— Okay, fine! I'll tell you if you wanna know that badly! Consider this my revenge..png) Revenge?  Oh? Confess...!?  She asked me pretty eagerly, too. So I decided to pry some info out of her... She gave me the rundown of the Virtual World, before she explained it to you guys. As I listened, I realized she was planning a murder..png) On me, no less...  So that's when I decided to prepare my *own* crime with her plan..png) I pretended to cooperate with her, and lured everyone into the Virtual World. You...worked together with Monokuma? *sigh* I guess the jig is up. Yeah, everything he said is true. Kokichi came to me with an idea to make the killing game more interesting....png) It was such a good idea, I decided to place a motive in the killing game simulator..png) You added a motive...?  .png) I didn't help him with anything, and I had nothing to do with the murder itself... Kokichi and I had a "quid pro quo" relationship. Technically, that doesn't violate the rules! .png) Shhh, calm down. I'll explain my relationship with Monokuma, so let me finish my confession. I'm fine with that, but...you're confessing without much of a fight... Nee-heehee... I told you, I'm gonna get in the way by taking away the mystery-solving fun. If I can't win this game, then I'll make it boring for everyone! That's my revenge! .png) ...What? ...Huh?.png) Wh-What did you...?  .png) Why you... Now you're trying to pin things on Gonta!? Yeah! There's no way Gonta could commit a murder this complicated. He's not sma—     Wh-What Busters!? We must win this killing game, in order to end this killing game! What you mean, "we"!? By the way, I came up with the murder plan, and Gonta carried it out. Gonta what!?!?KAITO: Why are you more surprised by that than the first thing he said!?  C'mooon, quit lying and tell us the truth! .png) And no matter how naive Gonta may be, I doubt he would ever team up with Kokichi... Yeah... Not after "Insect Meet and Greet" incident... Heh, it's obvious what he's trying to do. Gonta doesn't understand the Virtual World, so Kokichi's trying to trick him!  You're right... I'm sooorry... I did something horrible to Gonta...  Don't you think I could've pulled the strings and made Gonta carry out my commands? It does matter! There's no need to bring emotions into class trials!.png) All we need is logical thinking... Riiiight, Shuichi?.png) What...? U-Ummm... Gonta not understand what's going on. But still... .png) And also...Gonta not tell lies. And Gonta not make trouble for others... Yeah, Gonta's not lying... I can tell just by looking at him! I already used my magic to check! Gonta's definitely not lying! Then, lemme ask you guys... If it's not Gonta, then who's the culprit?  ...There's already proof? Oh? Did you forget already? Then, let me make it clear again...
Solitair fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Sep 28, 2023 |
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Jul 16, 2020 19:34
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Well, poo poo. Time to vote. Also, Koichi is making all of the faces today, huh?
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Jul 16, 2020 19:52
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Well! This is horrifying alright. 
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Jul 16, 2020 19:53
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 entirely possible that this is my favourite visual in the game
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Jul 16, 2020 20:15
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Kokichi protagonist now!
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Jul 16, 2020 20:18
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fffffffffffkfjrfrjfnfrgkgdejkffrjkfjke
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Jul 16, 2020 20:47
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The truth revealed: anyone who said Kokichi isn't their favorite character was lying!
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Jul 16, 2020 20:48
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If he’s telling the truth he manipulated Gonta, if he’s lying he’s trying to blame Gonta of all people, so no I don’t like him 
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Jul 16, 2020 21:15
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I really hope he’s lying. I don’t want another case of person tricked into murdering so clearly it’s entirely the tricked person’s fault.
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Jul 16, 2020 21:55
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The most effective lies are the ones that people want to believe.
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Jul 16, 2020 23:02
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This is the most interesting the series has got in a while, I don't have theories i'm just here for the ride
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Jul 16, 2020 23:11
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 01:34 |
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I still sit on the "cable switcheroo" bandwagon. Monokuma is good at pulling legalese and "murder was done by Gonta's avatar" is just that.
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Jul 16, 2020 23:59
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