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bewbies
Sep 23, 2003

Fun Shoe
If I have foreign tonnage requirements I always build a colonial heavy cruiser early on in the game. Make sure it can beat any light cruiser one on one and can run from any capital ship. They do a pretty solid job of hunting down raiders and with a couple of rebuilds they'll last forever.

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OpenlyEvilJello
Dec 28, 2009

1.13 is out

Patch notes posted:

THE FOLLOWING ARE THE CHANGES/FIXES FOR THE 1.13 UPDATE:
Reduced pre-battle air attrition and made it more variable.
Pre-battle air attrition will be heavier for both sides if suppress airbases is selected as air priority.
Added the ability for carrier divisions to provide CAP to any other division on the same side. This is in addition to CAP for supported divisions.
Improved AI airbase construction and land air unit management.
There will only be one aircraft from each manufacturer offered as prototypes. Prototype names will be unique.
Cancelling a fleet exercise will not prevent further fleet exercises the same year.
Added a button for putting all ships in reserve (useful after a war).
Fixed a bug with air units getting hijacked by sunk ships.
Fixed a bug with default search areas for airbases sometimes being wrong.
Fixed a bug with BB at start in 1920 sometimes having a build year of 1900.
Fixed a bug in aircraft replacement procedure.
Fixed a bug with invasion missions not triggering when completed.
Fixed a bug with air formation experience set to Fair after loading a saved battle.
Fixed a bug with speed/Hp calculations for some high speed cruiser designs.
Fixed a typo in the British bonus techs.
Stopped forces spawning on top in some cases.
Nice, they fixed the fleet exercise cancel bug. Mostly bug fixes, but assignable CAP could be significant.

Saros
Dec 29, 2009

Its almost like we're a Bureaucracy, in space!

I set sail for the Planet of Lab Requisitions!!

The reserve all will be nice. Better however would be to have 'peacetime' (reserve, mothball, active/foreign station etc) status for a ship it returns to when you click a 'demobilise' button.

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]
I am still waiting for missiles to be a thing.

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!
:siren:

WARNING: A HUGE ENEMY IS APPROACHING



Somebody on the NWS forums has figured out how to trick the game into letting you build hybrid BBCVs. They’re treated as CVLs in game and behave accordingly under AI control.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

no... make the guns bigger....

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

This is loving awesome.

BurningStone
Jun 3, 2011
Clearly these should be the Frankenstein class.

Caconym
Feb 12, 2013

What does "long lange" actually do in game? Is there any reason to not go medium range for everything larger than a destroyer? Maybe if you assign a raider to a sea zone where you have no basing?
Also where is the vaunted "flotilla attack" button, I can't get my destroyers to not hide behind the battle line even at knife range at night.

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!

Caconym posted:

What does "long lange" actually do in game? Is there any reason to not go medium range for everything larger than a destroyer? Maybe if you assign a raider to a sea zone where you have no basing?
Also where is the vaunted "flotilla attack" button, I can't get my destroyers to not hide behind the battle line even at knife range at night.

Long range is for raiders and makes them less likely to get the “raider runs out of fuel and is interned/has to scuttle” event.

Flotilla attack is in the division panel during battle—right-click the division name iirc. The button looks like several small ships together.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.
The flotilla attack button sometime works, too.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

In an Italy game, Italy somehow got triple turrets before they got the ability to build actual dreadnoughts and ended up building a B with 6 13 inch guns. The Stromboli class served all the way into the 1920s, even sinking a British BB at one point, before being blown up by a flash fire during a night action against Austria Hungary.

Only Austria Hungary could kill something so stupid. They were the only ones who could grasp its terribleness enough to destroy it.

OpenlyEvilJello
Dec 28, 2009

Caconym posted:

What does "long lange" actually do in game? Is there any reason to not go medium range for everything larger than a destroyer? Maybe if you assign a raider to a sea zone where you have no basing?
Also where is the vaunted "flotilla attack" button, I can't get my destroyers to not hide behind the battle line even at knife range at night.

Fredrik, talking about RTW1, posted:

Ships with long range will:
* Have better chances to escape interception as raiders.
* Better chances of sinking merchants if raiders.
* Better chance of intercepting raiders.
* Less risk of being interned or scuttled from lack of fuel.
* More fuel when a scenario starts (rarely of importance).

Ships with reliable engines will have:
* Less chance of engine problems in scenarios.
* Less chance of needing to return to base area when at sea (getting a *).
* Less risk of being interned or scuttled from engine problems.

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]

FrozenVent posted:

The flotilla attack button sometime works, too.

It depends on the year, and your fleet tactics level. Late game, particularly after you develop radio communication, it almost always works.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

ZombieLenin posted:

It depends on the year, and your fleet tactics level. Late game, particularly after you develop radio communication, it almost always works.

Wait, that's dependent on fleet tactics level?

That explains a lot about early DDs.

Caconym
Feb 12, 2013

Pirate Radar posted:

Long range is for raiders and makes them less likely to get the “raider runs out of fuel and is interned/has to scuttle” event.

Flotilla attack is in the division panel during battle—right-click the division name iirc. The button looks like several small ships together.

:shrug:
It's 1922 in Rear Admiral mode is that matters.

Kilonum
Sep 30, 2002

You know where you are? You're in the suburbs, baby. You're gonna drive.

You have to right click the division on the map

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!
I forgot a step. Right click the division->Status and you should see the correct window with the button for it. I’m on my phone or I’d provide the right screenshots. You’ll know you’ve done it right when there’s a black flag on the left side of the battle screen.

Caconym
Feb 12, 2013

Kilonum posted:

You have to right click the division on the map

Pirate Radar posted:

I forgot a step. Right click the division->Status and you should see the correct window with the button for it. I’m on my phone or I’d provide the right screenshots. You’ll know you’ve done it right when there’s a black flag on the left side of the battle screen.

Thanks, found it. It never occurred to me to look for destroyer division orders in the _flagship_ division status screen.
Goddamn grog UIs.

Patrat
Feb 14, 2012

Rear admiral mode and being able to (at least within sight of the flagship) directly command your squadrons to do idiotic things won me a war once.

I was playing as the UK and the prime minister required that I lay down eight new cruisers, right after I had started building a ton of cruisers. There was no budget for it so I built eight of the cheapest, most godawful light cruisers I could design, though I did give them four submerged torpedo tubes each (too early in the game for cruisers with above water tubes).

A few years later? In a war with Germany two of my battlecruisers ran into five of the enemy ones and had to flee to harbour, as they fled? One of them took a hit to the engine room and slowed down. In a desperate attempt to avoid losing a capital ship I sent four of my Awful Class light cruisers to just frontally charge the enemy fleet and pass through it. They obviously panic and spread out, my battlecruisers both make port.

A few hours later one of the awful light cruisers is sunk and three are heavily damaged, but two modern German battlecruisers have been torpedoed and sunk?

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]

Night10194 posted:

Wait, that's dependent on fleet tactics level?

That explains a lot about early DDs.

Yep, absolutely. There are a number of techs in the fleet doctrine line that affect DD behavior. And, as you point out, this 100% explains why ordering a flotilla attack early game, more often than not, does nothing.

The very last tech you need before the flotilla attack order is followed 100% (or pretty close) is the voice radio one.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I used to think it was partly that DDs get more aggressive with their torpedoes once they have more, too. I still think that's the case. They seem more willing to take 'chancy' shots if they have 10 torpedo tubes vs. 2. Plus the longer ranges mean they're more likely to fire before losing their nerve.

OpenlyEvilJello
Dec 28, 2009

1.14 posted:

THE FOLLOWING ARE THE CHANGES/FIXES FOR THE 1.14 UPDATE:
Light cruisers with DP main armament (AA cruisers) are more likely to be selected as CV escorts. Note that they might still very well get involved in surface actions, as happened historically.
Seaplane carriers can now provide CAP. Floatplanes will fly CAP only if their division has specifically been ordered to fly CAP over a division (which can be themselves).
Added possibility to request land based CAP over ONE ship division. (Button in division screen)
Researching secondary director for CL now unlocks secondary director for all ships if that was not invented before.
Increased aircraft handling penalties for carriers with aircraft capacity larger than 110.
BB divisions can now screen CV divisions when circular AA screen has been researched.
Reduced the number of times an enemy division is reported (to reduce report clutter).
Refurbished the calculations for penalty points when declining battles to eliminate some extreme values.
Increased CAP launch time variability.
Airbase Size is now limited to 100 planes if Fleet Size is medium or small.
The setup strike dialog will remember the last preferred target type.
Old techs are very likely to be discovered when they are older than 6 years.
Museum ships are now clearly labelled as such in the nation ship summary.
Ship list in main screen will not jump after a move is ordered.
Carriers cannot use cross deck firing.
Carriers with no aircraft will not be deployed in battles.
Some research levels in engine tech in the 30s will now give 2% weight saving in machinery (to reflect historical advances in engine weight reduction).
The attacker must now sink 6 ships to fulfil a convoy attack mission.
HAA factor now shown in design screen. Note that actual value in battles may vary slightly from the value in the design screen due to ROF and fire control advances.
Fixed a bug that could cause enemy reports to be visible when loading a saved game.
Fixed a bug that generated an error when selecting "Any ship" as target type for air attack.
Fixed a bug that allowed triple turrets on CL before they were researched.
Fixed a bug with the maintenance cost of ships under repair being dropped from costs.
Fixed a problem with invading Malta when the objective is inside the defensive minefield.
Fixed a bug that could cause enemy nations to take a player nation home province after a war.
Fixed some quirks with aircraft type assignment and aircraft replacement.

Roumba
Jun 29, 2005
Buglord
Could float/seaplane CAPs actually be effective? I guess in the very early years or something? I might have to do a new gimmick run with that in mind.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

The machinery change is pretty interesting. I always found focusing on Machinery surprisingly strong as it is.

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]

Night10194 posted:

The machinery change is pretty interesting. I always found focusing on Machinery surprisingly strong as it is.

Early on, it is for sure.

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!
1.15 notes:

quote:

THE FOLLOWING ARE THE CHANGES/FIXES FOR THE 1.15 UPDATE:

Small carriers that cannot operate fast aircraft effectively will not have such aircraft types assigned to them.
Limited the number of main guns on a ship to 20.
Limited the total number of secondary and tertiary guns on a ship to 32.
Allowed AMC with up to 25 knots speed after 1925. To simulate building a converted liner carrier like Hiyo or Junyo, build a 10000 ton 25 knot AMC, then convert to carrier.
Tweaked the weights of AMC hulls and engines to make CV conversions more reasonable.
Added air group summary to ship description.
The Navy will now be consulted before colonies are granted independence
Added option for unit machinery. Lowers the chance of engines disabled damage event.
Air units on carriers undergoing rebuild will not lose experience unless the refit is halted (this is to prevent misuse).
Added another air base for Russia/Soviet Union at Peterhof.
Increased maintenance costs from 1950 and onwards. This is to reflect that maintaining large fleets and air forces were increasingly unsustainable in the 50s and 60s.
Added a new battle type: Carrier Battle. Carrier battles can occur if both sides have carriers and there is enough sea room.
Added current flooding after reduces flooding message in ships log.
Added current fire level after fire limited message in ships log.
Slightly increased damage from multiple torpedo hits
Added Role to air attack messages
Having too many submarines under construction risks production delays.
Aircraft types under development are shown for comparison when a private venture is evaluated.
Cumulative air kills and bomb hits for air units are now tracked (reset after a war is over).
Air units can gain permanent elite status. These air units will remain better than other air units.
Added notice if friendly units think they are spotted by enemy aircraft.
Adjusted HAA factor calculations to limit very large numbers of heavy AA guns.
Added equipment flaws that can be discovered in wartime. For example faulty torpedoes or AP shells.
Reduced the chance of inventing Bombentorpedo to 10% (the Germans have it as bonus tech though, so will always have it).
Raised the cost of buying aircraft licenses and allowed poorer nations to buy when tension is lower than 4.
Search planes now do a dogleg at the end of their search vector.
Added a new key shortcut for moving ships easily. Pressing M in the main window ships in service screen will bring up a menu with all the map areas. Clicking an area in the list will set the destination of all selected ships to that area, regardless of current location.
Also added other key shortcuts for selected ships: C > cancel move, A > active, T > Trade protection, F > Foreign station.
When readied torpedo bombers stand down, the torpedoes will be returned and not lost.
Oil fired destroyers now have a smaller risk of missing a battle due to range to base.
Improved AI strategic movement.

Introduced Carrier trained property for air units:

* Only carrier capable air units can be based on carriers.
* Carrier trained air units cannot number more than 150% of the air capacity of existing carriers in wartime, 120% in peace or 110% if elite pilots.
* Carrier capable air units cost 150% of the maintenance of other air units.
* Carrier capable air units must be defined as such when they are created, they cannot be converted later.
* They can be created on bases, in the reserve or on carriers.

Fixed a bug where the wrong nation could be mentioned in the ship fate when sunk in a gunnery duel with a submarine.
Fixed a calculation bug that gave ships of exactly 5000 tons greater horsepower requirements than intended.
Fixed a bug with the fuel shortage notice remaining after a war.
Fixed a bug with bulging giving too good protection against torpedoes.
Fixed an error message that popped up when requesting CAP and no airbases exist.
Fixed a bug with invasion ranges sometimes being mis-calculated.
Fixed some problems with invasion battles status "sticking".
Fixed a bug with some very large battles generating an error on loading a saved game.
Fixed a counting error of submarines under construction.
Fixed a bug with enemy nations intercepting player raiders running the blockade.

The thing about carrier squadrons is interesting.

Apparently they also added the Qing Dynasty as a playable nation.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

:rip: insanely stupid, silly boats with 36 main guns.

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

I'm more saddened by the limitation on secondary and tertiary mounts now. :(

Roumba
Jun 29, 2005
Buglord
Whatever will we dump excess tonnage into now? Secondary armor? Nonsense.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I foresee a return of 8 inch secondaries past the terrible pre-dread phase.

And a corresponding return of lol flash fire.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

Qing has a bigger budget than japan, wow.

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]
Something has been bothering me lately. Shouldn’t it be the case that, in some circumstance, torpedo attacks are observed by the other side?

For example, at Jutland, it was very clear that the German destroyer screen was firing their torpedos at Jellicoe.

In RtW 1&2, I have to guess always if those closing destroyers are firing torpedos before they turn away.

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!
1.16 is out

quote:

THE FOLLOWING ARE THE CHANGES/FIXES FOR THE 1.16 UPDATE:

Note: This release includes an extensively updated manual, now over 100 pages with some illustrations. The manual is located in the "Manuals" sub-folder.

Revised the turn order for the strategic turn. Turn order is now:
- Strategic ship move
- Battle occurs
- Raider and submarine warfare
- Game provides notifications of events, process completions, technologies, etc.
- War breaks out.
- Surprise attack battles (if any).
- Design studies finished and option to rework design.
- Player strategic turn - player acts, building ships, making strategic level decisions etc.

Note that this gives the player time to adjust ship status when a war starts. Previously wars were a bit too sudden.
This also fixes the problem with reworking design studies.


Added option to force battle end with some losses (click exit battle button).
Effect of autoloaded AA guns on HAA factor now shown in build screen.
If an aircraft type with no bombs on M range is given NStrike mission, H load is automatically selected.
Selected target on the airstrike screen is cleared between scenarios.
There should now be no 1 strength air squadron fragments.
Decreased the probability that oil fired destroyers will miss a battle due to range to base.
Aircraft on the map will show better at all zoom levels.
If you move the mouse pointer over an air formation on the map when the game is paused, you will see an enlarged view of that air formation in the inset view.
Added select ready button in setup airstrike screen.
Modified formatting in log file for easier readability.
Added air group info to the map details screen.
Restricted carrier flight activity when enemy is in sight to prevent them turning into the wind in unhealthy directions.
Ships in reserve or mothballed will now not have engine problems.
Added more fleet size options. This may change the name of your current fleet size in ongoing games (e.g. a game started as medium will now be called small).
Limited AV to 14000 tons.
Added warning when HAA ammo of a ship goes below 50%.
Coastal artillery batteries now have 360 degree arc of fire for main guns (This is a bit generous and a simplification, but the previous arcs were too restrictive).
There is now a chance that coastal artillery batteries will have radar.
Fixed a bug with aircraft cruise speed in rare cases exceeding max speed.
Fixed a bug with 7 in coastal batteries having 8 in guns.

HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010


College Slice

ZombieLenin posted:

Something has been bothering me lately. Shouldn’t it be the case that, in some circumstance, torpedo attacks are observed by the other side?

For example, at Jutland, it was very clear that the German destroyer screen was firing their torpedos at Jellicoe.

In RtW 1&2, I have to guess always if those closing destroyers are firing torpedos before they turn away.

I've definitely seen enemy torpedoes approaching, but mostly in the late game and not always. Not sure what determines it.

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]

HisMajestyBOB posted:

I've definitely seen enemy torpedoes approaching, but mostly in the late game and not always. Not sure what determines it.

Oh, for sure it does happen. I guess I am specifically talking about when a destroyer screen charges capital ships as if they might conduct a torpedo attack.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they are driven away. It just sort of seems to me...

1. I know the destroyer screen is approaching my capital ships to launch a torpedo attack. Any simulated captain/admiral on said ships would know this too;

2. Therefore they would order lookouts to watch/prepare for torpedo attack; and

3. Even if they do not see the torpedos in the water, if the weather is clear, the seas not rough, and the battlefield not covered in excess smoke, people on your ships would literally be able to see the torpedos go in the water.

All I am really asking for is, when these variables are accounted for, a “torpedo launch detected” notification. Whether or not you identify the individual torpedos in the water can remain the same.

Basically I am asking for the same information Jellicoe had at Jutland when the German destroyers attacked... which amounts to, “oh poo poo, torpedos in the water! Signal the fleet to turn away!”

Edit

As long as I am making a wishlist...

It would also be pretty nice if you could set up squadrons easier for fleet exercises, and if crew training and morale would be better.

For example, the turn together order shouldn’t be available in 1900, and when it is available the success of such a maneuver should be based on the training level of crews and ships (and whether or not ships have trained together.)

I also how poo poo the AI dealing with large groups of ships, but friendly collisions should be a thing too.

ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Feb 8, 2020

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

ZombieLenin posted:

3. Even if they do not see the torpedos in the water, if the weather is clear, the seas not rough, and the battlefield not covered in excess smoke, people on your ships would literally be able to see the torpedos go in the water.

Lookout at sea really isn’t that easy. I was happy when my lookouts could spot a container ship, never mind whether she had the lifeboat on... I can’t imagine seeing a grey torpedo leaving a grey ship.

Also, remember that one night in 1912 where a couple of trained lookout on a clear night missed a goddamn iceberg until it was right there.

ZombieLenin posted:

Basically I am asking for the same information Jellicoe had at Jutland when the German destroyers attacked... which amounts to, “oh poo poo, torpedos in the water! Signal the fleet to turn away!”

Was it Jellicoe or the other guy who ordered a sudden turn and hosed everything up because he’d thought he’d seen a torpedo?

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

FrozenVent posted:

Was it Jellicoe or the other guy who ordered a sudden turn and hosed everything up because he’d thought he’d seen a torpedo?

Depends who you ask, basically. Jellicoe caught a lot of flak for turning away at Jutland, but the potential losses he could've faced as "The only man who could lose the war in an afternoon" were staggering, and fixating on K:D ratio when the war at sea was effectively won anyway would've just have been masturbation.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


FrozenVent posted:

Was it Jellicoe or the other guy who ordered a sudden turn and hosed everything up because he’d thought he’d seen a torpedo?

Jellicoe made the right decision by turning away at Jutland, and secured the victory at sea, Beatty shat his diapers so hard he got the man's job instead, and earlier it was Beatty who turned away when he thought he saw torpedoes at Dogger Bank and literally no one else did.

Although one may argue that it was still the right decision at the time, because it would have been a stupid loss of ships then.

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HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010


College Slice
Is there a way to order an AI controlled fleet to return to port? If not, there should be.

This would be particularly useful in cruiser battles when I'm outgunned and running away, but my supporting elements (like early CVLs) keep threatening to move into the pursuing enemy's path. Or for ships that are outgunned but insist on sticking around.

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