Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

banned from Starbucks posted:

Skynet goes too far and models its last assassin robot after modern day goons in both appearance and personality. It never leaves the house and john connor dies peacefully of old age at 97.

This explains why one of the new Terminators looks like Fragmaster.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Firstborn posted:

Would be cool to do another horror Terminator, I think.

My dream scenario is still one that goes into the serial killer sort of territory that was more emphasized in T1's script but to have the Terminator played by the Rock with the typical gregarious, motivational persona people love about him but with Terminator 1's grittier look and atmosphere happening around it. Like I think that would go around into creepy as hell territory.

iamsosmrt posted:

I'm not sure if there's a director with a reputation for grounded, serious, and reverent takes on action/sci-fi/horror, but they'd have it to give to that person to make it their own, and more importantly, to give it proper TLC to work as a new thing. Retire Arnie, Linda and everyone else associated with the originals. No more fan service. I don't ever want to hear "I'll be back" or "Come with me if you want to live" again outside of the originals (to be fair, I don't think these appeared in the Dark Fate trailer). The more attempts to exploit the originals I see, the sadder I grow about T2's legacy as it's absolutely one of my favorite movies of all time.

I would give a kidney for George Miller's take on the series.

Pablo Nergigante posted:

Arguably it's more canon than any of the post-T2 films since Cameron and the main cast were all involved

I feel like some of the video games are cannon for this reason too if they have some official involvement like voice overs and certain imagery and stuff in-game beyond "we got the license." Like the T2 arcade game IIRC all of that stuff in the first half of the game and the "silverfish" and smaller drone things are in the novelization (maybe even in T1's? I can't remember), and it doesn't really conflict with anything since it's basically "John Connor and the resistance completely re-program a Terminator while completely fuckin' ownin Skynet and then send Good Arnold back time."

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 16:59 on May 29, 2019

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

l33tfuzzbox posted:

Geara of war 5 dark fate tie in content trailer from e3



Speaking of which, Salvation itself is dogshit but it has a not horrible Gears clone based on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecr2WN3H9rs


T-800 and Ash Williams would be amazing in MK11. They could have the Terminator rip folks hearts out as described/briefly seen in T1.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Wild T posted:

That's one thing that always bugged me about the first movie - everyone remembers that Bill Paxton gets his heart ripped out, making him the first guy to play characters killed by a Terminator, an Alien and a Predator. But that's not what happens. One of the other punks gets chest-punched and we see Arnold's closed fist dripping with blood. It didn't go all kali-ma on him, it just straight up punched a hole through his chest*, which is even more metal. Bill Paxton goes offscreen and doesn't show up again, and the third punk strips off his clothes to give to Arnold. We never see concretely whether they even die, or if the Terminator just ignores them once it's immediate goals are satisfied like in the sequel. poo poo, Bill Paxton's character probably booked it as soon as Punk #2's chest cavity became a glove.

Edit: Is there a big, dumb Ash vs The Terminator comic book? If not, there should be.

*The fact that the first scene a Terminator appears in establishes that they can easily punch holes through human torsos makes things like the T-800 repeatedly throwing Christian Bale around in Salvation even dumber.

I just assumed he took the guy's heart out in the process because Reese's description is so weirdly specific given how screaming mad he is. But in general it's surely a holdover in the script of when they were originally going to have The Terminator be more of a serial killer and have more emphasis on Paul Winfield+Lance Henriksen investigating the killings.

I didn't know Paxton had a reputation for getting killed by a Terminator at all, like you say he understandably bolts pretty fast and I doubt the Terminator would have bothered chasing down anyone that wasn't directly hindering him.


Plus OMG I hate Salvation so much and that's one of the reasons. poo poo they should have just cold had the T-800 mangle him right there and gone with the resistance recovering his face/whatever to patch onto Sam Worthington's like they had planned. I hate in movies so much when like, the extremely lethal bad guy just throws people into walls. It always just feels like padding no matter what.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Basebf555 posted:

In a way I guess you could equally blame the studio, because it's not like they had a gun to their head. They went to Bale, offered him the lead role, and Bale had dumb demands so they should've just said thank you but no and moved on to the next option. Bale was just too hot at the time I guess because of Batman, they thought they needed him.

Remember that at this time even that Nolan was heavily involved in writing so there was a massive amount of goodwill from it not just having The Terminator and having Bale but that also. And Bale did this early interview about it that was worded as if the script was incredible and was the only reason he signed on (not because the story was being changed to be "incredible" by his own standards) while people were still The Dark Knight is the single best movie ever made and should have gotten 45 Oscars mania.

Johanthan Nolan was the last of a few people who wrote the script, and IIRC him and Bale just hit it off really well so that was that and when it was known that he was now writing it AND it was starring Bale people were mega hyped at the time.

Amusingly Nolan was still writing bits of it on set while filming according to McG, always a recipe for success.

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Jun 14, 2019

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

SUNKOS posted:

It sounds like Salvation was a whole bunch of really interesting ideas (including John dying etc.) and somehow they managed to screw up every single one and were just left with a mess. At least they managed to convey the fear of John not knowing what the hell he was doing despite preparing for it his whole life and trying to figure out how/when the important things are going to happen, but as it stands it's just a huge waste that probably could have been up there with the first two if executed correctly.

Yeah it's part of why I hate Salvation so much, it's like, sooooo much less than the sum of its parts.

I think part of it though is that the script was originally written by the two people that wrote Terminator 3's script and that was never totally scrapped it just kept getting changed and added to and taken away from until Nolan was the final person to work on it.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

BiggerBoat posted:

so my son is 8 years old and I was looking for a movie we can watch together.

I thought of The Terminator 1 and am surprised to be reminded it's rated R

Anyone have any idea why? I know it's violent but from what I remember there's nothing too horrible or worse than you can see on regular TV. Seems like it's way less objectionable than JAWS, Temple of Doom and several other PG13 movies I can think of. I don't even remember that much harsh language.

What am I missing or not remembering?

I saw Terminator 2 when it first came out and I was ten at the time and thought it was the greatest story ever told, and thought similarly about Terminator 1 which my brother rented for me shortly after.

WITH THAT IN MIND...

Terminator 2, if you let him watch you play Resident Evil games will be perfectly fine. However keep in mind it has a record setting level of fucks and such stated throughout (no really it actually really set a record for most fucks uttered in a film when it came out).

Terminator 1 is a lot darker overall, and has more instances of Arnold cold murdering civilians. Also I don't know how much you care about your kid seeing nudity or not but if that effects your opinion keep in mind that in T1 besides Arnold's rear end if you watch it on anything that isn't VHS you will clearly see Arnold's dick and balls hanging around as he walks towards the punks in the beginning. Also there's some brief nudity during the sex scene towards the end.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

RBA Starblade posted:

A Terminator movie where Skynet sends a robot back in time to follow John Connor around and make him look like the biggest weenie on Earth, making thousands of accounts and aliases all for the purpose of trolling and shitposting about him, so that when Skynet blows up the world no one will want to follow that loser

This is the timeline where they don't realize the T-1000 killed his foster parents and he just goes home and gets bullied by T-1000 Mom until he becomes and adult.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Darko posted:

I'd like a Future War movie that just follows, like, a random family and the low grade Terminators. Kind of like how T4 was supposed to be, but even smaller scale. Similar to how, if someone actually wants to make an Aliens sequel, just do "Hadley's Hope."

Basically just do a hard R all practical remake of Screamers but with some of the characters more clearly being robots from the beginning.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:
Oh my God. Opening day, I'm there.

Basebf555 posted:

Wasn't there some rumor that Furlong is there in one of the opening scenes and a Terminator comes in and just blows him away? Because if that actually does happen I have to see this movie.

You have to do what I sa-BOOM

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:
THE POST SO NICE SA POSTED IT TWICE!

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Basebf555 posted:

Good on Furlong for keeping his life at least somewhat together long enough to be able to still get decent work in 2019. For a while there it didn't look so good.

I just realized American History X is like 21 years old now.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:
Innerspace but with tiny Terminators infiltrating John Connor's cells. Midichlorins, folks will love it.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:
The trailer plays like it's just a comedy movie starring Martin Short with no relation to The Terminator and then like halfway through out of nowhere we get a goatse.cx ish zoom into is rear end where a tiny Edward Furlong is in hiding as the Terminator theme starts playing.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Bacon Terrorist posted:

What if they did a Terminator that was even more bogged down in the time travel problems so if it killed the wrong redshirt in pursuit of it's target it would inadvertently gently caress the Skynet timeline up in different ways. It would probably be a poo poo movie but an interesting concept.

This would actually be pretty interesting if done right, like the unlike the way the Terminator usually rolls it would HAVE to blend into human society pretty well, and for a much longer time frame, to set up killing John Connor in a way that doesn't mess with anything else.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Timby posted:

Isn't it one-way? I haven't watched Salvation or Genisys in ages, because I don't want to break my brain, but I thought Reese told Sarah that the time-travel was one-way and there was no way to skip forwards and backwards.

Although a part of my brain thinks that Genisys broke that rule ... and like gently caress if I'm watching that piece of poo poo again.

Yeah in Terminator 1 and 2 it's a one way trip because there'd be no way to make a time displacement device with the past's technology. Reese is explicit about how there's no going back, period, and the T-800 explicitly says it has to be killed because it's the last bit of future technology there, going back is never even brought up.

Genisys I don't think broke that though, but instead had some weird poo poo where he was remembering stuff from a different timeline? It was still just one way time travel though. I too will opt to not watch it again to find out.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:
Imagine responding to SuperMechagodzilla posts multiple times in 2019. The future is not set.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Davros1 posted:

Do got to wonder what the T-800 would've done if Sarah had an unlisted number in the first movie. Would he have gone to city hall and check the records? The DMV?

Oh god, I just remembered Sarah's little scooter. Why wasn't there a chase involving that?

Originally the Terminator was going to kill every person named Sarah Connor and then cut their leg to see if the tissue matched the description of what little medical records existed because in the future all Skynet could dig up was that her name was Sarah Connor and she had injured her leg at some point. This was when the script was going to focus a little more on Paul Winfield/Lance Henriksen's detectives and have more of a slasher feel to it. Then at the end when she pulls that piece of shrapnel out of her leg was when she actually got the wound in question making it another closed loop thing.

There was another iteration too where she already does has a visible scar at the beginning that's pointed out. Evoking the traditional literary plot device wherein if you show that someone has a scar on their leg in act one you better have them squad a robot in a hydraulic press in act three.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Stairmaster posted:

this score sounds like rear end tho

Now that you mention it, 3/4/5's soundtracks aren't particularly good either imo.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

mmmmalo posted:

Salvation was so funny... Blair hits on Marcus for a good 20 minutes, and when it comes time to assert the machine's humanity, she says "I looked at him and I saw a man". Yeah you sure did! Cracks me up

McG fought to keep a brief scene of her being topless very briefly while changing/talking to Marcus but it was ultimately nixed to keep it PG-13.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Timby posted:

God, that was hilarious. They made such a huge deal of the "unrated" cut hitting home video, and literally all that was added was a two-second topless shot of Moon Bloodgood.

I remember it being the vanguard film of a lot of rant articles about how "unrated edition" is always bullshit. I'll never not find it hilarious though that like, of all of the poo poo going on in a Terminator movie that could potentially make it rated R this was the hill you were trying to die on?

:laffo:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6vFM7ExvpE

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Groovelord Neato posted:

i don't even remember the movie explaining why it was far more advanced than the T-1000. war properly and not how they did in salvation.

To T3's credit they do explain this. In the timeline created from T2 happening Judgment Day is not stopped, just postponed until John is older. Skynet has the internet/etc. more advanced technology to work with and the resistance being able to reprogram Terminators reliably motivates it to start designing stuff made to kill other robots and not just humans.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

iamsosmrt posted:

The Terminator series is never ending. Even if this film bombs, within 10 years they'll probably go with a full-on reboot. And even if that fails, they'll probably wait another grace period of X years before going right back to it. Every single one will feature a villainous terminator that'll be disappointing compared to the T-1000.

Hollywood has only so many ideas to work with. The Matrix 4 is coming for chrissakes.

The goofiest thing about Salvation, Genisys, and now this one is that all three are spoken of in terms of THIS ONE WILL BE THE START OF A NEW TRILOGY and it's third time's a charm I guess lol

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Fish Noise posted:

my new Terminator concept: a half-dozen or so Terminators of different models and from wildly conflicting timelines converge to find John Conner already dead. As they try to figure out which one did it and what it means for the future, more timeline-significant people turn up dead and more Terminators arrive, complicating matters.

Ideally this results in basically Bloodsport but all the competitors are different Terminators fighting to prove which one's timeline managed to kill John Connor.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Donnerberg posted:

As I understand it, red is a hard colour to do in movies. That's why the live action Optimus Prime in Transformers has a lot of blue in the design. Maybe that issue goes for purple too, and the effect guys just decide to not even try and go full blue instead? I don't know.

This is correct and made me wonder if the original intention in T1 was to actually have them be red (or blue) the whole time. Similar to Vader's pink light saber in A New Hope being red after the initial release/later films. Either way it looks cooler than the blue ones and helped make them distinct from the other sci-fi franchises with lasers in them. Plus you'd think since we're still in the age of HEY LOOK AT THIS 80S LIGHTING being cool in movies/TV/etc. they'd embrace purple lasers of all things.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

your evil twin posted:

It was called Terminator 3: War of the Machines. You say "decent", it's pretty notorious for being rushed, buggy and half-finished.

I'm a huge mark for Terminator and have given even the worst Terminator games a serious shot, I remember how disappointing that one was because I was in the beta for it and, in general, we were all excited from it. I mean the basic framework was there so if the final game was just Battlefield but with Terminator stuff and you can be a bunch of endoskeletons riding on a hunting killer killing worthless humans like you could sort of do in the beta then gently caress yes Game Of The Year and you could even do cool stuff like play as one of the smaller drones or other aerial things.

But then the final game came out and it was like, the EXACT same product as the beta, like dang lol

Fish Noise posted:

my new Terminator concepts: Literally just compile all the plasma era future war scenes and edit them for plasma color consistency, with versions for every color.

You can actually do this a little on the Terminator 3 DVD. There's a bonus where you can take that scene where the endoskeletons are marching around all firing weapons and change what weapons and what color they are. So you could have that scene play with them using flame throwers or different colored/types of plasma shots.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:
I don't think I have the original DVD anymore but looking at the back the box online the feature is uncreatively titled "Create Your Own Visual Effects" so searching for it might be a pain.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Gatts posted:

I was thinking an Arnold drama character study movie where he finds out his wife is having an affair. We follow him as he copes with it with a tone of like Eyes Wide Shut. It climaxes when Arnold confronts his wife in the arms of her lover and we find out it is a Predator. The Predator laughs, says this is revenge and we get a climax that is an epic fight as the nuke timer counts down.

Unfortunately I think the ship has sailed on True Lies 2.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Sasquatch! posted:

This subroutine better still work in 2019...


gently caress YOU, rear end in a top hat and gently caress YOU being two separate responses has always been one of my favorite little things in any movie ever.

The same way Fox had those five Alien short films they should have random people film the third act of The Terminator but it has to start with this scene and each person's film is how the story plays out with the other responses.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Gatts posted:

Sky net sends a Terminator back in time millions of years ago who has his learning chip on and as he grows, lives through extinction events, he eventually wants to guide humanity in an expansion of his programming to save it and change the future so Man is good enough to live with machines peacefully. He is then crucified, has his power core leak when stabbed, and rises 3 days later after rerouting, his programming is reset and learning forgotten. Now the agent of Rome must hunt him down and stop him before an Empire falls.

http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=8V4Yzif8jQY&start1=1&video2=Hmtct-aWXMk&start2=1&authorName=why+we+slap

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Fish Noise posted:

my new Terminator concept: Judgement Day has come... and it's a complete boondoggle. The distributed part of Skynet has been voluntarily spread all over the world by people, in the form of SkyCoin, but it runs like complete rear end and turns out to be more of a hindrance to Skynet core than anything else. Barely over half of the ICBMs make it to their destinations. Even accounting for the ones that sucked a quadcopter into a jet intake, HK pathfinding is a shitshow and they crash into things constantly. The human targeting systems on all of Skynet's units only seem to recognize certain ranges of skin color, and the resulting people who have been left alone in Skynet-controlled zones discover that despite their clumsiness otherwise, Terminators are weirdly good at maintaining balance and recovering from being kicked.

There has to be a scene where a bunch of Terminators are looking at a screen as this goes down awaiting instructions from Skynet and it just reads out "THIS IS IN FACT A MASSIVE VICTORY FOR SKYCOIN BECAUSE..."

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Groovelord Neato posted:

that shot of it lying on the ground after she hits it with the truck LOL

I had this issue with Genisys too, like, it's a TERMINATOR movie how are you not gonna have fuckin' awesome effects? Even Salvation has great effects and that's one of the worst movies ever made. Like Terminator 3 has CG that doesn't hold up today but it was still excellent when the movie first dropped.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Fried Watermelon posted:

Yeah pretty much all Terminator films after 2 have the blue plasma beams when they should really try to have them look purple

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

RBA Starblade posted:

Genisys has some pretty sweet cgi actually, like the mri machine loving up John

That part is legit great and genuinely striking because I don't think anything quite like it has been done before. What really killed it for me is the regular use of fully CG vehicles like the helicopter chase and especially when the bus is hanging off the bridge. Then the establishing shots for the campus at the end and a lot of the stuff in the climax in general looked really weak to me.

I have to agree that SkyNetJohn was the strongest thing in the movie and made for the most interesting stuff. Or like the way they trap the T-1000 that comes through and take it out relatively easily. Instead of making Genisys a huge epic thing it would have been cool to lean into slasher/horror territory more like Terminator 1 and have it be about all the creative stuff they have to do to keep Evil John at bay.

Jai Courtney is just, like, I genuinely don't understand how that dude gets work, he's awful all the time imo.

IIRC part of his and Clarke's casting as Kyle and Sarah was that they wanted to go for how these two might be assuming other Terminator stuff happened and they're both rolling around with foreknowledge of everything. So like Sarah's had this upbringing of being cared for by THE TERMINATOR so she didn't need to bulk up as much herself to hang with folks. And Reese/John know what's happening so no way Reese wasn't going to get some special treatment and not be the emaciated/scarred/etc. hosed up dude we got in Terminator 1. He's the chosen one of the story or so thinks.

It's interesting but the movie doesn't really go into that much and the casting of both of them still turned out awful though.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Caros posted:

Sure was interesting watching the Terminator stop and gape open mouthed after the endoskeleton got hit by a car, rather than... you know, immediately rushing and stabbing them before she got out of the car.

Grendels Dad posted:

Someone make that a gif with a "Processing 75%" bar photoshopped in.

Milkfred E. Moore posted:

I'm wondering if the Terminator is like dumber when it's split or something.

CharlestonJew posted:

it was running the program to see if "gently caress You" or "gently caress You rear end in a top hat" was the right response but hit an exception and had to restart




Judgment Day originally happened in 1997, you know what else happened in 1997?


Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Fish Noise posted:

my new Terminator concept: two dorkass artists (and their american friend who may have fallen off of a space station onto the wrong side of the world) who've turned to a life of thievery steal a damaged T-800 marked for disposal. meanwhile, some techbro really wants to use an HK tank to kill poor people.

I'm in the minority that liked Chappie a lot but I don't know if it necessarily needs to be remade.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

iamsosmrt posted:

One better, combine this, FatF, and the Planet of the Apes into one. The Furious crew go into space and when they come back, many years have passed and the Apes are now battling the Machines for supremacy over the planet and the remaining humans. The only person who can end the stalemate is Toretto and his Charger.

You have to combine it with Pitch Black and The Iron Giant but have no one comment on three of the characters sounding or/and looking exactly like Vin Diesel.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Mat Cauthon posted:

we never see Arnie move faster than a jog in T1.

I mean he's no Robert Patrick in selling it but in T1 the intention of the scene is definitely that the Terminator is running fast enough to just about catch up with a speeding car.


well why not posted:

imo this franchise should just get handed over to someone like Gareth Edwards was for Star Wars. Let Arnie go and just do new poo poo with smaller links to the old films.

I'd rather see a Terminator movie from Gareth Evans.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

well why not posted:

so salvation 2? Actually I haven’t seen salvation, should
I bother!?

It's a movie that's incredibly bad but in fascinating and gobsmacking ways so I'd strongly recommend it. Also definitely worth it for Terry Crews though, incredible work in there.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

No need to put him against the wall over this.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply