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Man I feel stupid I was watching season 1 episode 1 for like 10 minutes thinking this is the new season and they were just doing some shenanigans by showing the beginning.
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Jul 11, 2020 20:52
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Episode 5 Man, the Nielsen's are bad at time traveling rock murder. Also, jesus christ  . Then, just when I was sure they'd hit the "what the gently caress" quota for the episode, suddenly there's was too many Marthas and now Jonas is dead? What a show.
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Jul 12, 2020 01:45
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CeeJee posted:The showrunners went 110% Kubrick/Fincher on season 3. I didn't pick up on this at all until the very end when her scar was on the wrong side. I didn't know they went that far. Really cool.
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Jul 12, 2020 01:54
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cryptoclastic posted:I didn't pick up on this at all until the very end when her scar was on the wrong side. I didn't know they went that far. Really cool. I noticed the scar switch from when she licked up Jonas in s2 and spent a good two days trying to figure out how left-scratch Martha and right-scratch Martha ended up on different sides of a conflict in their world. . The effect is really really neat though!
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Jul 12, 2020 02:03
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CeeJee posted:Every scene shot in Martha's alt-world was mirrored in post. Sets were altered, cars were replaced with British ones, all signs, books and posters were replaced with mirrored writing and cast had to use their non-dominant hand to open doors and write. Deutsche gründlichkeit indeed. Holy poo poo, I didn't realise they were that diligent with it. Over all I found season 3 not as entertaining on its own as season 1 and 2 but it was a much better way to end the show than I expected. I guess I'm still burned by Lost and I didn't think they'd really tie up everything so neatly. I definitely felt rushed though, S3E7 had no internal story whatsoever it was just The Episode Where They Answered All The Questions. Almost had a clip-show feel to it. I do have some questions though, don't know if I missed something or if they were left unanswered: 1. Why did Noah need to build the weird time machine that kills children? 2. Was Boris/Alexander really just a random dude who fled from the law when he met Regina? It felt like he knew something at that point but I guess that's really the first time he met anyone and he had never been to Winden. Was that just a fake out to make the viewers think he was also a time traveller? 3. What made Jonas go "gently caress it, nothing matters, might as well murder people if I need to" during his transition to Adam? Was ist just frustration that he didn't get the thing to work or his theory about how the world / time travel works?
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Jul 12, 2020 10:20
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cebrail posted:1. Why did Noah need to build the weird time machine that kills children? Like a lot of other events and actions in the show, the children had to be killed because they were killed before in the loop. Their deaths are predetermined. Also, Noah is essentially using them as test subjects for the chair to eventually work Helge. Which is why eventually calls him his miracle child. cebrail posted:2. Was Boris/Alexander really just a random dude who fled from the law when he met Regina? It felt like he knew something at that point but I guess that's really the first time he met anyone and he had never been to Winden. Was that just a fake out to make the viewers think he was also a time traveller? I don't think its a fakeout. In the last scene, we actually see that Hannah, Katharina and Regina are actually friends or at least friendly with one another. That's because Ulrich never existed. Because Ulrich never exists, Katharina never attacks Regina with Ulrich. So the event that leads to Regina meeting Boris/Alexander never occurs in the original world. We don't know what happens to Boris/Alexander after he flees to the woods to Winden, if indeed he actually does that in the origin world. cebrail posted:3. What made Jonas go "gently caress it, nothing matters, might as well murder people if I need to" during his transition to Adam? Was ist just frustration that he didn't get the thing to work or his theory about how the world / time travel works? While in the past, and with information fed to him by Adam and Eve in the future, Jonas in 1888 comes to realize the plan to kill alt Martha because he thinks their child is the origin of the loop. The killing he engages in is done to put all the pieces in place for his plan, like killing Hannah and sending Silja to the future. Jonas thinks he's on the path to ending the loop, but he can only do it by maintaining the parts of the loop that got him to the current point. I think his nihilistic attitude is informed by the idea that he started everything in an attempt to save the Martha of his world, but he was set on the path of killing her in order to end the loop. Essentially, he slowly finds out what Adam knew and is driven to become Adam.
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Jul 12, 2020 11:28
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The Nish posted:Like a lot of other events and actions in the show, the children had to be killed because they were killed before in the loop. Their deaths are predetermined. Also, Noah is essentially using them as test subjects for the chair to eventually work Helge. Which is why eventually calls him his miracle child. And because all the dead kids are "competition." Yasin could take Noah's place with Elisabeth post-apocalypse, Mads was close to Regina and would probably be walking her home the day Alexander came to town, Erik.. I dunno, but considering that she knew where his stash was, and their shared "entrepreneurial" it's likely he was with Franzisca.
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Jul 12, 2020 14:40
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cebrail posted:1. Why did Noah need to build the weird time machine that kills children? The in show explanation for this is given by Adam some time in season 2 to Jonas, while they're in the 20s sic mundus lair. He says: Each time machine is an incremental step forwards. So I guess it's the chair, then the tannhaus device, then I guess the spherical device? The 20s lair machine and the post apocalypse pregnant teenager murder machine seem to be different - they don't create a wormhole they just stabilise an existing one I think. Problem in understanding this is that they're not built in that order. But that doesn't matter in this timeline. Adam appears at least partially responsible for the blueprints for all of them, presumably based on his knowledge from experimenting with Claudia and then his own experiments in the 1880s. So I guess maybe each one needs to be built to allow the one after? And of course I assume a lot of the knowledge of how to design the machines is bootstrapped. Stranger Jonas has seen and used the tannhaus device but then grows old and writes the blueprints for it.
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Jul 12, 2020 18:32
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So I'm in the middle of the new season on Episode 4 and this extremely tense scene had my laughing my rear end off so bad I had to make a gif:
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Jul 12, 2020 23:16
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DaveKap posted:So I'm in the middle of the new season on Episode 4 and this extremely tense scene had my laughing my rear end off so bad I had to make a gif: Hmm... so Bertholdt's futurewife (forgot her name) is Jonah's half-sister, making Noah and Agnes his half niece and nephew? And Agnes is not only his half niece, she's his great-great grandmother? And Hannah's daughter/ Bertholdt's futurewife is also Claudia's half sister making Noah and Agnes her half niece and nephew too?? I really need an updated family tree for this show...
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Jul 13, 2020 00:41
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:Hmm... so Bertholdt's futurewife (forgot her name) is Jonah's half-sister, making Noah and Agnes his half niece and nephew? And Agnes is not only his half niece, she's his great-great grandmother? And Hannah's daughter/ Bertholdt's futurewife is also Claudia's half sister making Noah and Agnes her half niece and nephew too?? I really need an updated family tree for this show... I went on the Dark wiki after finishing everything and there are so many of these it’s not even funny. Half of the characters seem to be related to each other
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Jul 13, 2020 02:23
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:Hmm... so Bertholdt's futurewife (forgot her name) is Jonah's half-sister, making Noah and Agnes his half niece and nephew? And Agnes is not only his half niece, she's his great-great grandmother? And Hannah's daughter/ Bertholdt's futurewife is also Claudia's half sister making Noah and Agnes her half niece and nephew too?? I really need an updated family tree for this show... Lets you choose what episode you're on to see the non-spoiler family tree.
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Jul 13, 2020 05:47
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OrthoTrot posted:The in show explanation for this is given by Adam some time in season 2 to Jonas, while they're in the 20s sic mundus lair. He says: Yeah, that's the part I don't understand: It seems like the Time Machine That Kills Children didn't influence the Tannhaus Portable Time Machine in any way because that one was bootstrapped by its own future version. So why did Noah need to create the Time Machine That Kills Children? The Nish posted:Like a lot of other events and actions in the show, the children had to be killed because they were killed before in the loop. Their deaths are predetermined. Also, Noah is essentially using them as test subjects for the chair to eventually work Helge. Which is why eventually calls him his miracle child. Yeah, but what was the initial goal he wanted to accomplish by building that machine?
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Jul 13, 2020 14:39
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Just finished the show and I only really have one question: were jonas and claudia loving those decades they spent together
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Jul 13, 2020 17:43
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cebrail posted:
I think Adam is saying the Penny Farthing had to be built before the Mountain Bike. But it's complicated by the causality not having to be linear in this case. The Tannhaus device is on some way based on the development of the chair, but the chair was only built later. From Adams point of view I guess the chair wasn't built earlier. The timeline of the show appears flexible but the 33 year rule is pretty restrictive. Noah builds the chair November to June. The year isn't really relevant from Adams point of view. If he learns something December 1920 he can't tell Noah before December 1986 or December 1953. He has no access to the sphere machine that breaks the 33 year rule. And his wormhole machine under the church appears to be one way. So I guess over November to June 1920 he develops the chair with Noah, (who actually builds it in 1986, but that's not relevant). Then he uses that to write the blueprints for the suitcase machine and the sphere device. Somehow both end up with Eve. She gives the blueprints to Claudia to give to Tannhaus in November 1956. I think at this point Claudia is using the sphere so not bound by the 33 year rule. So when this happens is anyone's guess. I assume alt Tannhaus builds the sphere machine? It's not said, but it's very similar to the suitcase machine. Too much spoiler text. Sorry. When can we give that up with a Netflix shoe normally?
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Jul 13, 2020 18:14
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OrthoTrot posted:I think Adam is saying the Penny Farthing had to be built before the Mountain Bike. But it's complicated by the causality not having to be linear in this case. The Tannhaus device is on some way based on the development of the chair, but the chair was only built later. That's a really good point. The suitcase machine doesn't really have to be build because it travels with the user and can be handed over throughout the time loop, having therefore no real origin. But Adam's big machine has to be redeveloped in each iteration because it's stationary. And while he has as rough understanding of how it works from watching Claudia in the future, he still has to put in years of work and research to make it work. Maybe some of this research involved the Winden wormhole(which is only available post 1986) so he sends Noah to this time to do the chair experiments and bring back the research results. And Noah kills the kids as part of the experiments because the kids were killed as part of the experiments. They are explicitly trying to keep the loop intact at that point, so he doesn't really have a choice in the matter. If those specific kids don't die, the loop can't exist.
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Jul 13, 2020 18:37
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I just finished binging this over the past week and while I thought it started off strong, by the end this is all I could think:
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Jul 13, 2020 23:02
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GABA ghoul posted:That's a really good point. The suitcase machine doesn't really have to be build because it travels with the user and can be handed over throughout the time loop, having therefore no real origin. But Adam's big machine has to be redeveloped in each iteration because it's stationary. And while he has as rough understanding of how it works from watching Claudia in the future, he still has to put in years of work and research to make it work. Maybe some of this research involved the Winden wormhole(which is only available post 1986) so he sends Noah to this time to do the chair experiments and bring back the research results. Plus, Adam spent a number of years trying to create his own device after he lost access to the suitcase ("after" meaning from his perspective, not from a chronological POV). He really only had possession of the suitcase for a short period of time. Most of the time it was with either Claudia or Tannhaus. CeeJee posted:The showrunners went 110% Kubrick/Fincher on season 3. A lot of the shots were recreated later with different characters/versions. Really impressive cinematography. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yA8EZQyhS0
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Jul 14, 2020 04:41
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sticklefifer posted:Plus, Adam spent a number of years trying to create his own device after he lost access to the suitcase ("after" meaning from his perspective, not from a chronological POV). He really only had possession of the suitcase for a short period of time. Most of the time it was with either Claudia or Tannhaus. He had a version without fuel the whole time because they bring it back with them. That version ends up with Claudia somehow I think. And he then has what appears to be a working version when Hannah shows up. So I guess that's the length of time between however old Silje is then and however old she is when young Jonas meets her.
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Jul 14, 2020 09:06
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Whew, just finished the show. I... honestly don't know what to say. I guess in a way it wrapped up how I would've wanted it to but... when (spoilers for Legion and this show) Legion did the exact same thing it kinda felt empty. Like the journey wasn't really worth the destination. In Dark's case, though, the journey felt much more entertaining and the destination was only sorta worth it. I think the biggest problem is that we really just didn't know Tannhaus well enough to care. The show may have just taken entirely too long to reveal that he, and the loss of his family, was the origin. Had we gotten to know him and his family better, the destination would've felt more worthwhile. Plus Legion didn't have any post-restart footage so that didn't help that show either. Also I felt like the third season's middle episodes were weak. I'm glad they didn't try to prolong the season out to 10+ episodes. Great show, highly recommend, but just barely stopped short of entering into my personal hall of fame list. Edit: Oh, I do have a question actually. I'm confused as to where the Martha that Adam kills with the god particle came from. She's wearing the 1800s clothing but when exactly is she snatched away to be imprisoned by Silja? I'm sure it's just 1 scene somewhere near episode 5 or 6 but I can't recall because there were too many Martha's and I was confused as gently caress. Also I kinda wish we got to see old Ulrich disintegrate. Dude's a cheating rear end in a top hat but I wanted at least a little visual closure to the madhouse version of him. He was so sad looking. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 00:46
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DaveKap posted:Whew, just finished the show. I... honestly don't know what to say. I guess in a way it wrapped up how I would've wanted it to but... when (spoilers for Legion and this show) Legion did the exact same thing it kinda felt empty. Like the journey wasn't really worth the destination. In Dark's case, though, the journey felt much more entertaining and the destination was only sorta worth it. I think the biggest problem is that we really just didn't know Tannhaus well enough to care. The show may have just taken entirely too long to reveal that he, and the loss of his family, was the origin. Had we gotten to know him and his family better, the destination would've felt more worthwhile. Plus Legion didn't have any post-restart footage so that didn't help that show either. A lot of what you said sums up what I couldn’t figure out how to express myself. I enjoyed it and was happy with the ending, but it just felt like there was something missed.
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Jul 15, 2020 02:45
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DaveKap posted:Edit: Oh, I do have a question actually. I'm confused as to where the Martha that Adam kills with the god particle came from. She's wearing the 1800s clothing but when exactly is she snatched away to be imprisoned by Silja? I'm sure it's just 1 scene somewhere near episode 5 or 6 but I can't recall because there were too many Martha's and I was confused as gently caress. I think it's episode 3 or 4: Right after she gives Jonas the god particle thingy and he tries to activate it she travels to 2053.
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Jul 15, 2020 08:40
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cebrail posted:I think it's episode 3 or 4: Right after she gives Jonas the god particle thingy and he tries to activate it she travels to 2053. And I don't mean that in a "I don't know why Adam locked her up" kind of way... I mean that I can't tell where the split happens between Alt-Martha that saved Jonas and Alt-Martha that didn't save Jonas. The one that didn't save Jonas has the origin but the one that did... doesn't? But wait, they both have the origin because otherwise the triple dudes wouldn't exist. gently caress I'm confused again. How are there two Alt-Marthas with origins if the split happens before they sex Jonas up?! Edit: Never mind, I checked the darknetflix site and now I understand that the split point was post sex. Man that messed me up. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 09:02
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DaveKap posted:Right but is that not the same Martha that goes to Adam and insists on having the truth be told? And he goes "yes it's time you found out" and explains the Origin to her. The thing is, I didn't see any impetus to her getting locked up or why she had to strip then wear the 1800s clothing. Either I'm missing something here or they just hard cut to her being imprisoned and clothes changed for no reason. The clothes change is so Silje can take the 1880s clothes and travel in them to the 1880s herself and have the kids with Bartosz.
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Jul 15, 2020 11:44
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OK, so how old is the suitcase time machine? Not sure if I should put this whole thing in spoiler tags or not. Sorry for the huge grey blob. My theory is Adam writes the blueprints for the machine, then the origin takes them when they torch the sic mundus lair. Eva gives them to Claudia. We don't have exact dates on most of that but the important thing is that Claudia brings the blueprints to Tannhaus in November 1953. By June 1954 when she visits again it appears basically structurally finished so I'm going to count that as its date of creation. It doesn't work for a further 32 years, but this is when the parts appear to be actually machined by Tannhaus. Stranger Jonas visits 32 years later in November 1986, with the older version of the machine, in Claudia's suitcase. He ends up leaving with the new version and putting it in the suitcase. From the point of view of the machine this is the first time it's put in the suitcase. Running total 32 years. Jonas takes the machine to see his younger self in the bunker, then closes the wormhole. I'm actually not sure what year he does this in, but it doesn't matter I think. We next see him in June 2020. (which is in itself interesting. What is he doing in this 6 month period. I'm not sure it's explained). The time machine ends up with Hannah and she travels to June 1954. Running total 33 years. We don't have a length of time for the next bit. Hannah turns up in 1911 with Silje. Silje is born in 1955 so this isn't a 33 year increment travel. Hannah has to have been brought by someone with the orb machine. So we really don't know exactly when she travelled from. I'm just going to guess Silje is 10. Running total 43 years. We don't see the next bit but by a process of elimination this is the machine that ends up with Bartosz. To get back into the 33 year cycle it has to wait until 1920 though. Running total 52 years. Via Bartosz the machine goes to Magnus and Franziska. They travel with Stranger Jonas back to 1888. The next time we see this machine is with older Claudia, however I also think Noah has to use it at this point in its life cycle. When he gives the version to Bartosz he continues to travel in 33 year increments while the tunnel portal is closed, eventually ending up back in the 20s to be killed. So I think he has to have brought both machines with him to 2019. Either way they have to wait 33 years at this point for Noah to start his travelling. Running total 85 years. It's not clear how this version gets to Claudia or how long it takes. I'm guessing Noah has it in 1920 and it stays with sic mundus until the lair is burnt. Then it goes to Eva, and then to Claudia. You could add literally any amount on here but this could also happen immediately after the sic mundus people travel to 2053. I'm going to assume this happens like the day after or something. So no effect on the total. Claudia burys the machine June 1954. She digs it back up June 1987. She puts it in the suitcase. From the point of view of the suitcase this is the first time the machine has been put in it. Running total 118 years. Claudia uses the machine to travel to and from 2020. Then back again with Jonas. She goes to the bunker, rides out the apocalypse, and stabilises the particle. The machine is broken throughout this. We next see it with Stranger Jonas in 2052 before he travels back to 2019. Running total 151 years. Tannhaus takes the machine back. It may well still be in the shop when Charlotte is going through it in 2020 but I don't think we see it. Maybe Tannhaus chucked it. I don’t think we know from this point on. One way or the other that's some impressive clockwork.
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Jul 15, 2020 18:46
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Rando thoughts 3 episodes into season 3: - That effect that happens whenever they switch universes is helpful but also looks really silly - Killian is boring. Is there any point to him? - I laughed at alt-Martha and Franziska like “well, it’s the 1800s, guess it’s time to dress like a milkmaid”
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Jul 16, 2020 16:50
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I thought they explained the time machine when they talked about Tannhaus' book and the bootstrap paradox? The machine doesn't have a beginning. No one invented it. It just always exists/existed. Sure future Adam or Jonah could just hand the machine to Noah and save him from having to work on the chair machine, but they don't because they're trying to redo everything the way it was done before (and Noah abducting kids is the reason Mikkel ends up in the past).
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Jul 16, 2020 17:11
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Actually, a question. At what point did Jonas go to the 1800s? Before or after he was stuck in the far future with Noah & co? It would have to be after, because he turned into Adam in the past, but it sure as hell seemed like they were stuck in the far future with no way of getting out for several years, and I can't remember him leaving.
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Jul 16, 2020 17:18
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Der Shovel posted:Actually, a question. It's after. He is trapped in the "future" after hiding in the basement to escape the apocalypse. Claudia has a machine but it's bust. The cave is collapsed. So the only way to time travel from that point onwards is the god particle. Claudia delays stabilising it and in the meantime Jonas grows to become the Stranger. He leaves via the particle when they get it working.
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Jul 16, 2020 18:28
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Phew, what a show *stumbles in looking bewildered* What year is it?!? But seriously one of the most impressive things for me is how well they matched the younger/older actors for the same character. Masterful casting. Especially Alexander and Magnus. Just looking at them and you instantly knew who they were.
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Jul 16, 2020 20:54
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Ok I’m on 306 and the switch loop is the bit that’s finally made me throw my hands up and be like “I do not understand this AT ALL”
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Jul 17, 2020 08:58
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priznat posted:
I was suprised young and old Aleksander are not related. There must have been times where the rest of the crew was making a case for old person makeup as the far more practical way to do this and Baran Bo & Antje going NEIN NEIN NEIN to keep it true to their vision.
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Jul 17, 2020 09:22
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I think the adult and elderly versions of the lip cut fam might be father and son, judging from the credits.
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Jul 17, 2020 10:06
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Season 3 had two father/son pairs, two of the creepy trio (there is another actor son from that family, August Diehl who was Major Hellstrom in Inglorious Basterds) and the Peter Dopplers.
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Jul 17, 2020 12:43
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Oh yeah also was the reason for the unknown/origin’s harelip because jonas was genetically martha’s nephew?
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Jul 17, 2020 14:31
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priznat posted:Oh yeah also was the reason for the unknown/origin’s harelip because jonas was genetically martha’s nephew? It's possible, but people are born all the time that have cleft palettes or harelips for no reason at all other than random chance. I think the main "reason" for that, if anything, was that they had run through practically every other distinctive facial detail (scars, heterochromia, white streak in hair, birthmark, mole, etc.)
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Jul 17, 2020 17:46
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Yah that makes sense, so you see em and go “oh ok, that’s their deal” Also lol about the Nielsens being really bad at rock murders. Not in a hereditary way since also Katharina
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Jul 17, 2020 17:51
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Something that stood out to me after finishing the series and mulling it over for a while - when Hannah meets Helene Albers in the 50s, Helene says her mother told her that the souls of aborted babies go to Hell. Then in the 80's, when Katrina threatens Helene she slips up and calls her "Mama" and Helene reacts with a deeper, much more nuanced fear than simply responding to an attack from a crazy person. When Helene is stoning her, she says "You came from Hell, the Devil sent you, I got rid of you." Helene believes Katrina is her would-have-been child, come back to haunt her.
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Jul 17, 2020 18:18
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Fyadophobic posted:Something that stood out to me after finishing the series and mulling it over for a while - when Hannah meets Helene Albers in the 50s, Helene says her mother told her that the souls of aborted babies go to Hell. Then in the 80's, when Katrina threatens Helene she slips up and calls her "Mama" and Helene reacts with a deeper, much more nuanced fear than simply responding to an attack from a crazy person. When Helene is stoning her, she says "You came from Hell, the Devil sent you, I got rid of you." Yup that was brutal, I had been binging so that was fresh in my mind. Just goddamn. Also it sucks that Katherina probably suffered her abuse from her lovely mother after everything anyway since she still existed.
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Jul 17, 2020 18:27
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307 question: how did Hannah get to 1911 with Silja when she only had one of the 33 year devices? Otherwise, drat. Pretty freaking impressed with how they made it all tie together.
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Jul 17, 2020 20:59
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