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nut
Jul 30, 2019

https://twitter.com/hash_tigre/status/1438645734467792901?s=20

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mawarannahr
May 21, 2019


quote:


Left-wing extremists include groups and individuals who oppose capitalism, support environmental or animal rights causes, or embrace communism, socialism, or anarchism (The Escalating Terrorism Problem in the United States, Center for Strategic and International Studies, 2020). Some members of the anti-fascist political protest movement Antifa have enacted violent extremist crimes, but research by psychologist Gina Scott Ligon, PhD, director of the National Counterterrorism Innovation, Technology, and Education Center (NCITE) at the University of Nebraska Omaha, shows that while Antifa-inspired individuals engaged in increasing levels of violence over the summer of 2020, it is still a decentralized movement with low levels of coordination and does not meet the criteria for an organization (Dynamics of Asymmetric Conflict, Vol. 14, No. 1, 2021).

“antifa-inspired individuals” are taken seriously by no one, it appears.

their conclusions are unsurprising given the massive contributions of the United States government and military to the development of the state of psychological science we have. “personality testing” came from the military and I believe still is heavily in use there.

I think the way psychology is taught also imposes a perspective that recognizes only interventions to the individual. I’ve never studied sociology but I wonder if an integrated perspective wouldn’t be better. all the population-scale interventions developed by psychologists are terrible.

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"

LittleBlackCloud posted:

there is, I think, a bigger danger involved with these kind of conspiratorial overinvestments.

Believing in an overarching will or plot behind every major world event is counterproductive. It is socially isolating and promotes feelings of mistrust and powerlessness. This is doubly the case for buying into things like labyrinthine versions of the 9/11 attacks. I am begging you all to consider how ridiculous it sounds to the uninitiated to point out minute details that you think seem suspicious as evidence that large parts of the attacks were literally manufactured.

Even if the theory maps 1:1 to the actual events (whatever the gently caress those were), they sound irrational because they are. Calling some of these minutiae circumstantial evidence is generous. Pedaling elaborate conspiracy theories about events obscures what actually happened as much or more than the mainstream narrative. There is no functional difference between saying "deep state interests set in motion the 9/11 attacks in order to enact their agenda" with or without "the pentagon was hit by a missile, jets were inside of a hanger, jets were remote controlled, controlled demolition, how could a passport survive?" Nevermind how many of those theories suggest a conspiracy orders of magnitude more complicated than something like kennedy assns--let alone any proven to exist--the details of how don't matter.

I think it's more likely that the CIA pays people to manufacture outlandish conspiracy theories than that some of them are true. I get that a lot of this thread is to feel good about knowledge, but still.

Now this is I mostly agree with. But I don't really share the things I share here with the general public, on my Twitter, or with friends and families because yes it's not terribly important that we know, for certain, the minutiae of the event (thermite? bombs? Americans driving the planes?) - however, I do share bits and pieces here and there because questioning an official (ruling class) narrative, in any capacity, even incorrectly, is worthwhile for all persons. Secondly it's fun to read, think about, and talk about these things like one approaches a mystery novel or whatever. But no I'm not a propagandist or keen on forwarding one narrative as the definite absolute truth. The relevant truth is that class war is occurring and that class war occurs clandestinely in addition to openly.

nut
Jul 30, 2019

mawarannahr posted:

“antifa-inspired individuals” are taken seriously by no one, it appears.

you have to leave antifa untouched so all the intelligence informants within can continue to spur unprovoked violence to stoke the flames of hate whose course can be corrected, by psychology, to genuine leftist sentiments

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

mawarannahr posted:

“antifa-inspired individuals” are taken seriously by no one, it appears.

their conclusions are unsurprising given the massive contributions of the United States government and military to the development of the state of psychological science we have. “personality testing” came from the military and I believe still is heavily in use there.

I think the way psychology is taught also imposes a perspective that recognizes only interventions to the individual. I’ve never studied sociology but I wonder if an integrated perspective wouldn’t be better. all the population-scale interventions developed by psychologists are terrible.

Wasn't Fritz Fanon originally a psychologist

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"

This is the cutest mistake I've seen in some time. "Fritz". I love it

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Perry Mason Jar posted:

This is the cutest mistake I've seen in some time. "Fritz". I love it

lmao I'm more tired than I thought I was

Sextro
Aug 23, 2014

SLow down guys we gotta make sure our theories that fly in the face of accepted fact aren't too fanciful, we gotta take ourselves seriously here

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

ok let’s wrap it up folks. moving on — this Havana syndrome seems pretty serious, no?

TheIncredulousHulk
Sep 3, 2012

World War Mammories posted:

I wonder if feeling validation from posting is healthy. well, whatever helps me through the day

The vile maxim gang may have everything else in the world but they will never know the joy of seeing that particular shade of yellow appear when scrolling through a thread on these dead gay comedy forums

Regulus74
Jul 26, 2007

gradenko_2000 posted:

from Ryan Grim's "We've Got People". I've highlighted some of the more interesting bits





Is that this ryan grim?
https://mobile.twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1438554512810299393

Wraith of J.O.I.
Jan 25, 2012


wot if the people claiming aoc is cia are.......... cia

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




aoc sent the anthrax from tower 7
change my mind

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


mawarannahr posted:

I think the way psychology is taught also imposes a perspective that recognizes only interventions to the individual. I’ve never studied sociology but I wonder if an integrated perspective wouldn’t be better. all the population-scale interventions developed by psychologists are terrible.

It's a very good consideration. Psychotherapy is about working with the individual (because that is the sphere of action that it actually can work), but there have been very important evolutions in how that process is conducted. Psychodynamic therapy/therapeutic psychoanalysis is very, very different than cognitive-behavioral therapy in terms of purpose, process and goals. There's an explicit Marxist bent to some schools of thought in psychoanalysis (especially after Lacan) about how therapy and/or analysis is a direct, intensive method to help an individual realize their own history and their place in it, which allows then to realize their own place in the world

Excelzior
Jun 24, 2013

AOC was on the grassy knoll

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"
Why did no one mention the straight up WW3 prelude poo poo that happened today? :mad:

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




cant derail my friday vibe

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"
I'm too close to a major city lmao I gotta get outta here :axe:

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




join me in the holy fire

OutOfPrint
Apr 9, 2009

Fun Shoe
I'm out of the loop, what did Biden do now to bring us closer to the brink of extinction?

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"
Pulled out of a nuclear sub deal with France while in a defense pact with the UK and Aus which France is, uh, not part of. France was supposed to sell the sub to Australia but now Australia will buy from US. France pulled their US ambassador this afternoon.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




oh i thought you meant the uk going back to the imperial system for weights in grocery sales

the french will have to pound sand, the us wants nuclear subs surrounding china so we can all die after they try defending uninhabited japanese rocks, not some french diesel tubs

Real hurthling! has issued a correction as of 00:37 on Sep 18, 2021

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"
Say, is there anything thread relevant about undersea capabilities? Hmm some sort of that was Ghislaine Maxwell's focus other than sex trafficking? And one her sisters too (yes?)?



[thinking hard]

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"
Oh right they're transforming the whole of the planet into their apocalypse dome and planes won't be able to fly when their wheels melt to the tarmac or they can't generally lift because the ambient air temperature exceeds 125F. Ah, gently caress. Of course! :doh:

smarxist
Jul 26, 2018

by Fluffdaddy

mawarannahr posted:

“antifa-inspired individuals” are taken seriously by no one, it appears.

their conclusions are unsurprising given the massive contributions of the United States government and military to the development of the state of psychological science we have. “personality testing” came from the military and I believe still is heavily in use there.

I think the way psychology is taught also imposes a perspective that recognizes only interventions to the individual. I’ve never studied sociology but I wonder if an integrated perspective wouldn’t be better. all the population-scale interventions developed by psychologists are terrible.

it's great because they can't say literally anything to legitimize the actions of people who'd act outside state approved channels in order to seek redress of their grievances, even when their grievances are very real and rooted in material reality

so like if you had a somewhat large antifa movement in an urban area doing things like securing food/medicine/shelter for people by any means necessary, they'd have to recommend talk therapy and maybe an AD regiment to those "crazy" terrorists lol

the most simple and illuminating way to view history and material movement is "everything matters" and it doesn't even take that many extra considerations to arrive at a more whole and useful view of the world and society and it's all we can do to stop people from realizing it is turn the contrast up on everything to insane degrees so that Hero Police Defend Dumpsters Full Of Food From Crazed Leftist Hunger Anarchists

my bony fealty
Oct 1, 2008


yeah she really did a lot to boost Bernies 2020 run, that one sure ended in a smashing success

Bernie is an op too Mr Grim

Riot Bimbo
Dec 28, 2006


AOC pretty clearly is an op and i would be distrustful of anyone being so reductive about the mountain of evidence something is hosed up with her and her story is bullshit, and a bunch of true factual poo poo doesn't really jive with her presented image, if you're going "lmao you think the cia planted her to boost bernie for reasons" is like screamingly frustratingly disingenuous and not really taking the claims seriously, so you either have a partisan blowhard that doesn't warrant being taken seriously, someone doing a job, or a true blue dumbass. Any way you slice it's like... nah. reductive indignity is not an actual substitute for making a case

Mameluke
Aug 2, 2013

by Fluffdaddy

Perry Mason Jar posted:

Oh right they're transforming the whole of the planet into their apocalypse dome and planes won't be able to fly when their wheels melt to the tarmac or they can't generally lift because the ambient air temperature exceeds 125F. Ah, gently caress. Of course! :doh:

the pedophiles' secret navy of hot-water submarines

my bony fealty
Oct 1, 2008

Riot Bimbo posted:

AOC pretty clearly is an op and i would be distrustful of anyone being so reductive about the mountain of evidence something is hosed up with her and her story is bullshit, and a bunch of true factual poo poo doesn't really jive with her presented image, if you're going "lmao you think the cia planted her to boost bernie for reasons" is like screamingly frustratingly disingenuous and not really taking the claims seriously, so you either have a partisan blowhard that doesn't warrant being taken seriously, someone doing a job, or a true blue dumbass. Any way you slice it's like... nah. reductive indignity is not an actual substitute for making a case

I think a lot of liberals looking leftward and realizing the slow horror of it all are very, very reluctant to give up hero worship entirely. aoc and Bernie are the last ones who surely can't be part of the evil capitalist system (and the ones with less star power like Ilhan Omar and Cori Bush, sure) because accepting that naw they're at best willing stooges in the neoliberal hellscape and at worst active intelligence agents means you've fully crack pinged into understanding that democratic socialism is a lie and electoralism is a dead end. lotsa people just can't take that leap.

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"
Bernie was used to lend AOC legitimacy, not the other way around? He gained popularity in 2016 ahead of her 2019 bid with the crew with her in 2018. Overnight there's a 'socialist' 'bloc' for Congress. I don't know if the imperialist old man was a willing, conscious participant or an easy mark for the DNC but he did go on to make endorsements for HRC (totally opposed to his own platform, supposedly) in both elections. Yes he was very useful even in getting Trump elected, former non-voters jumped from Sanders to Trump cuz they just wanted any non-establishment ('non-establishment') candidate. Either he's malign agent or among the most spineless and easily duped in history.

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005


Perry Mason Jar posted:

quote:

Real Justice PAC gives money to Bernal Alto LLC (good luck finding much of any information on this one) and Middle Seating Consulting (ditto):
I'm not sure how best to organize this, but I'll try. It's a bit convoluted, but everybody at both are closely connected. Bernal Alto is hard to find info on, but basically a duplicate and predecessor of The Social Practice, LLC, Middle Seat is the successor to Revolution Messaging (who handled Bernie 2016's digital messaging and fundraising), which lost most of its employees over gender discrimination and harassment from the president, and Revolution in turn had come largely from FitzGibbon Media, which had shut down after numerous accusations of sexual assault. I think the affiliations and past experience of employees speak for themselves.


Bernal Alto was run from a residential address in San Francisco. A second residential address in Berkley was shared with Moveon.org's Civic Action and Political Action.

Bernal Alto LLC, 2016-2020
-Rebecca Bond
-Jin Ding
-Zack Malitz
-possibly others?


The Social Practice LLC, 2018-present, also run from the same address. Affiliations with political campaigns and groups are taken from their site.
https://www.thesocialpractice.org/
-Rebeca Bond: Bernie 2016, Beto 2018, Beto For America, CREDO, Real Justice PAC, The Big Organizing Action Fund (now Green Advocacy Project)
-Zack Malitz: Bernie 2016, Beto 2018, Beto For America, CREDO, CREDO SuperPAC, ACLU People Power, Real Justice PAC, The Big Organizing Action Fund (now Green Advocacy Project)
-Jin Ding: CREDO SuperPAC, Real Justice PAC
-Adam Klug: Momentum
-Emma Rees: Momentum, UK Labour 2017, The World Transformed
-Joe Todd: Momentum, UK Labour 2017/2019, The World Transformed, Common Knowledge
-Jo Bearsmore: UK Uncut
-Alexandria Sousa: Bernie 2016, Beto For America, ACLU People Power, Women's March, NextGen Climate
-Elijah Zarlin: Obama 2008, Repower America, CREDO,
-Katelyn Coghlan: Cristina for Texas, Beto 3028, NextGen Climate
-Katherine Fischer: Beto 2018, Cenk Uygur for Congres, Sierra Club, National Nurses United


Middle Seat Consulting, LLC , March 2017-May 2018
-Kenneth Pennington: Bernie 2016
-Hector Sigala: The Big Organizing Action Fund (now Green Advocacy Project), Bernie 2016, Beto 2018
-Zack Exley: Kerry 2004, Wikimedia Foundation, New Organizing Institute, MoveOn.Org, Justice Democrats
-Michael Kieschnick: Green Advocacy Project, CREDO, Real Justice PAC, NextGen Climate
-Elizabeth Bennett: Bernie 2016, Beto 2018, Beto For America
-Aidan King: Bernie 2016, Bernie Sanders for President (Reddit), Beto For America
-Camilo Caffi: Bernie 2016, Revolution Messaging, Beto For America
-Drew McConville: Bernie 2016, Revolution Messaging, Beto For America

MLSM
Apr 3, 2021

by Azathoth

lol overt fascism right here

Doktor Avalanche
Dec 30, 2008


if what happened in the primaries was a boosted bernie run then god help leftism in america

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005


quote:

Terrorism—or violent extremism—describes the use of violence in service of a specific ideology, typically social, political, or religious in nature. Radicalization refers to the process by which that ideology is adopted, but researchers say holding extreme views is not inherently a bad thing.

“Radicalization of opinion can be an important precursor to meaningful social change,” said Lemieux. “The problem is when people begin to feel that using violence in service of those views is not only justified but also recognized and celebrated.”

Many—but not all—of the extremist crimes tracked by PIRUS are violent. Some are what experts call “paper terrorism,” such as when those opposed to federal income taxes engage in tax fraud or evasion. Differentiating between violent and nonviolent crimes can help focus counterterrorism efforts on preventing loss of life.
Not only is this loving stupid, it's barely coherent.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




terrorism is violence, also you can do it with numbers on paper

nut
Jul 30, 2019

imo revolution has to be considered a mental disorder in our society, there is just no other option, but I will admit even I thought the APA had more tact than this. Though, tbf, their leadership has been openly squashing popular opinion in their membership to oust APA members directly connected to overseeing (helping to design/participating in) black site torture. It likely already exists, but if not, the APA will pair "leftism as mental illness" with "participation in black site torture as therapy/promoting well-being"

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

psychologists have bizarre ideas about what terrorism is. the former president of the American psychological society accused researchers who were reviewing papers and trying to replicate them of Methodological Terrorism

Susan T Fiske, former APS president posted:

Our field has always encouraged – required, really – peer critiques. But the new media (e.g., blogs, twitter, Facebook posts) are encouraging uncurated, unfiltered trash-talk. In the most extreme examples, online vigilantes are attacking individuals, their research programs, and their careers. Self-appointed data police are volunteering critiques of such personal ferocity and relentless frequency that they trash-talk. In the most extreme examples, online vigilantes are attacking individuals, their research programs, and their careers. Self-appointed data police are volunteering critiques of such personal ferocity and relentless frequency that they resemble a denial-of-service attack that crashes a website by sheer volume of traffic.

Only what’s crashing are people. These unmoderated attacks create collateral damage to targets’ careers and well being, with no accountability for the bullies. Our colleagues at all career stages are leaving the field because of the sheer adversarial viciousness. I have heard from graduate students opting out of academia, assistant professors afraid to come up for tenure, mid-career people wondering how to protect their labs, and senior faculty retiring early, all because of methodological terrorism. I am not naming names because ad hominem smear tactics are already damaging our field. Instead, I am describing a dangerous minority trend that has an outsized impact and a chilling effect on scientific discourse. I am not a primary target, but my goal is to give voice to others too sensible to object publicly.

To be sure, constructive critics have a role, with their rebuttals and letters-to-the- editor subject to editorial oversight and peer review for tone, substance, legitimacy. Some moderated social-media groups monitor individual posts to ensure they are appropriate. Always, of course, if critics choose to write a personal message to the author, that’s their business. If they request the original data, scientific norms demand delivery within reasonable constraints. All these venues respect the target.

What’s more, APS has been a leader in encouraging robust methods: transparency, replication, power analysis, effect-size reporting, and data access. All this strengthens our field because APS innovates via expert consensus and explicit editorial policies. Individuals’ research is judged through monitored channels, most exchanges (curated comments and rebuttals). These venues offer continuing education, open discussion, and quality control. These constructive efforts draw on the volunteer talent of many, in the greater good and respecting the individual investigator.

In contrast, the self-appointed destructive critic’s role now includes public shaming and blaming, often implying dishonesty on the part of the target and other innuendo based on unchecked assumptions. Targets often seem to be chosen for scientifically irrelevant reasons: their contrary opinions, professional prominence, or career- stage vulnerability.

The destructo-critics are ignoring ethical rules of conduct because they circumvent constructive peer review: They attack the person, not just the work; they attack publicly, without quality controls; they have sent their unsolicited, unvetted attacks to tenure-review committees and public-speaking sponsors; they have implicated targets’ family members and advisors. Not all self-appointed critics behave unethically, and some do so more than others. One hopes that these critics aim to improve the field, not harm people. But the fact is that these vigilante critiques are harming people. They are a far cry from peer-reviewed critiques, which serve science without destroying lives.

Ultimately, science is a community, and we are in it together. We agree to abide by scientific standards, ethical norms, and mutual respect. We trust but verify, and science improves in the process. Psychological science has achieved much through collaboration, but also through responding to constructive adversaries who make their critiques respectfully. The key word here is constructive.

APS Past President Susan T. Fiske is Eugene Higgins Professor of Psychology and Professor of Public Affairs at Princeton University. Her research focuses on how stereotyping, prejudice, and discrimination are influenced by cooperation, competition, power, and other social rela relationships. She is a recipient of the 2017 APS James McKeen Cattell Fellow Award and constantly wishes for more :mods: in every facet of society.

she can’t decide if they are data police or data terrorists or destructo-critics (is that even a word?)

it’s incredibly funny to me. more details

psychologists as a whole are an incestuous community of striver succ: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/psychologists-looked-in-the-mirror-and-saw-a-bunch-of-liberals/



thankfully they’re mostly powerless dullards.

nut
Jul 30, 2019

if you wanna know how brazenly psychology has been used to try and consolidate capitalism look no further than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania

nut
Jul 30, 2019

sorry psychologists (i know some of u do good), ur getting it all from the thread 2day

https://twitter.com/DanielDenvir/status/1439226160278392833?s=20

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Excelzior
Jun 24, 2013

:hmmyes: the economy has repressed urges to murder and/or gently caress its creators

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