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Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled
I like the show so far but I feel like it's trying to introduce too much at once and it's crowding its own narrative out. I think they could probably stand to take a breath with regard to jamming in new character introductions until the existing ones have had a moment to breathe. This episode was ostensibly about exploring what Anna's beef with Shingestu is but literally half the runtime was devoted to Silver Haired Piano Girl talking to herself/her sister and Little Girl Who Isn't Actually A Little Girl doing...not much of anything yet, which meant that I was both unsatisfied with how much of the Anna/Shingestu thing we got and how much of an intro we got to the new characters.

Also Mangestu is disturbingly chill about everything despite how she has literally no idea what's happening.

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Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Endorph posted:

I had the opposite take. By letting the moments be pretty slight and mostly focusing on how characters feel it feels like the show doesn't think the viewer is a complete idiot.

The Colonel posted:

yeah if anything they've paced things out really well, it's pretty easy to read what everyone's motivation is and what kind of dynamics they have going on. the background behind what happened with shingetsu and anna is less important than the rift it's created in their relationship right now is

I guess I don't need them to explain more so much as I want to see more of each relationship on screen. Like I don't need Anna to turn to the screen and explain exactly why she hates Shingetsu so much as I wanted the episode to be entirely about their current relationship, if that makes sense? I felt like every time I was getting invested into what they were showing me they slam jump cut to another character and it left me oddly frustrated. I actually started disliking piano girl just because it felt like she was interrupting the good part for me, when normally I think I'd be interested in her deal.

Watching Anna and Shingetsu interact is compelling and I want more!

Kanos fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jul 21, 2019

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Spiritus Nox posted:

That it was actually Shingetsu who always did Anna's most impressive magic and everyone around her just couldn't bring themselves to tell her

I honestly found this kind of weird and ham-fisted. I initially figured they were going for a "you were always best when working with Shingetsu" angle rather than a "you were actually always completely worthless as a mage and we let you think you weren't to spare your feelings" angle. Once the latter became apparent it just kind of felt stupid that her mom never told her the truth about the technique she was so proud of for what appears to be like a decade, despite it being the primary driving force behind Anna's problems.

"It was to spare her feelings" as an excuse feels awkward and nonsensical when there's a scene in this ep about Anna's mom straight up telling Anna "you can't use our super magic crystal because you're not strong enough and you can't measure up to Ernesta anyway" to her face well before the big reveal, during which she hardly spared Anna's feelings.


Fangz posted:

I don't think Anna's mum is dead, FWIW, but I feel like at this point the only way this is gonna end with Anna not dying is Shingetsu mindwiping her like what happened with Nene's mother. And maybe the rest of the family as well :(

With Nene, we've observed that people don't die in the Granbelm fights even if they are destroyed rather spectacularly, so there's probably room for Anna to be defeated without death provided she doesn't somehow kill herself. That said, I have no idea if there's even a way to resolve her grudge short of some kind of death/mindwipe, yeah, given that her response to the big revelation here was "kill or at least badly injure mom to steal crystal for revenge".

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Elephant Parade posted:

It was stupid of them, but not unrealistic. When you lie to a loved one, it often feels easier to maintain that lie—even if doing so requires hundreds more—than to tell them the truth. Honestly, I like that Shingetsu and Anna's mother said the wrong things in the conversation—it would have felt less "real" if they had said the right things and reached a positive conclusion, given the degree of enmity Anna felt and the way in which she had just been taunted by Shisou.

I actually agree with you in concept! The whole setup would have worked really well if not for the scene where Anna demands the big stone and her mom talks down to her about it, because it punctures the "we don't want to destroy Anna's feelings" bubble a bit when her mom pretty brutally punctures her feelings shortly before the big reveal.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

SatoshiMiwa posted:

The credit interruption was a neat trick and caught me completely off guard

Yeah it was great.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled
This show is good.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled
viewers: how on earth is suishou going to measure up to anna?

aoi yuuki: strap in, fools, i got this

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Elephant Parade posted:

imo it's kind of lame that Mangetsu's life problems are because she's a magic robot and not just because she's had a crappy life. like, it doesn't totally destroy her character or the series or anything, but it sort of retroactively makes her less interesting.

I agree with Sindai on this one. Now that we're aware that Magiaconatus rewrites reality on a near-constant basis, and often does so in a way that fucks with the memories and perceptions of the mage-aspirants that are supposed to know the rules of the world/competition, almost everything we supposedly know as a fact of the setting is basically out the window. Nene and her sisters are theorizing that Mangetsu is a magic doll robot based on what they know, but what they know is inherently unreliable.

The main source of "Mangetsu is an empty doll created to support Shingetsu" is Suishou, and Suishou is consistently a horrible nightmare of a being who relies heavily on psychologically debilitating her opponents(which makes sense, because magic in this setting is a function of willpower). "Mangetsu is a doll with no past created solely to help Shingetsu win the tournament that she hates" is way too neat and perfect of a line of psychological attack against both Mangetsu and Shingetsu for me to be willing to take Suishou at face value on that. We already saw proof in this episode that Suishou isn't flawless or infallible in her knowledge and judgment re: Shisui being able to gently caress her over long-term to let Quon win(which only failed because Quon had no reason to expect Suishou to not be human).

Given they specifically drew attention to Mangetsu being able to feel pain while Suishou explicitly states she herself can't, I'm going to wager that if Mangetsu is a magical creation of Magiaconatus, she's a lot more human/less disposable than Suishou claims she is.

Kanos fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Sep 7, 2019

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Fangz posted:

Hmmmmmm

Crazy thought, but maybe people have Suishou's motivation entirely wrong?

Like doesn't her actions make more sense if they were actually aimed at *helping* Shingetsu? Insofar as helping Shingetsu accomplish her wish of getting rid of magic?

Like her attacks have not been focused at Shingetsu, but instead Kuon. She also riled up Anna to further isolate Shingetsu, and with the recent revelations again... Even her rooftop speech seems designed to get Shingetsu to hate magic and go through with her plan.

There's that monologue where she says that a Princeps Mage has to get where she is through her scars...

And if her belief is that humans shouldn't have magic, having magic be destroyed also accomplishes that.


Having magic be destroyed means that *no one* has magic. Suishou seems to believe that humans aren't good enough for magic, not that magic itself is something that shouldn't exist. Suishou seems pretty cool with she, herself, having magic - and if she's a magical being as theorized, then no more magic means no more Suishou.

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Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Fangz posted:

Right, so key to this theory is that self preservation isn't her goal, that this is a convoluted suicide plan. I mean maybe Shisui's soul sustains her so she's literally unable to die otherwise

I mean it's a pretty wild theory but that's why its fun

Well, Shisui's soul didn't seem irrevocably attached to her. She was prying it out to try to stop Shisui's plan before Quon chaos dunked her, and Quon casually pulled it out on a whim once Shisou was disabled.

If Shisou simply wanted to die, she could have just, you know, let Quon kill her. Maybe give her a little hint. "Gut stab's not gonna work, dear, you're gonna need something bigger."

Kanos fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Sep 8, 2019

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