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Vote to threadban Bioshuffle This poll is closed. |
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| Yes (Goku) |
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146 | 85.38% |
| No (also Goku) |
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25 | 14.62% |
| Total: | 171 votes | ||
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Dalael posted:You heard it here boys, Spiderman is a Fascist. He's literally Hitler guuuuys We're in the thread for the show where the entire concept is "Superman...is a fascist??" Obviously Superman- DC Superman Clark Kent is not a fascist, but theres a grander overall point being gestured at beyond that. A depiction like Homelander is making a point about superheroes and just pointing out that, Clark Kent, Peter Parker wouldn't act like that, isnt really addressing it. Bust Rodd posted:Spider-Man never tells anyone how to live or what to believe or even really tries to get them to change, he literally only stops people from hurting others. Defending the weak from the strong and violent isn’t fascism. There is no greater push to force the world to adopt his worldview, which seems like the lynchpin of fascism. Right, he's not a fascist because he doesn't do fascist poo poo. Its worth noting though that Spider-Man is only a few degrees of separation from Roschrach. Steve Ditko also wrote Mr A (his mouthpiece for objectivism, which did leak into some of his writing for early Peter Parker) who later got tamed into The Question, who was literally written as Roschrach before DC didnt want to destroy the character and Moore turned him into an expy. I realise I've referenced Alan Moore like three times in three posts now but thats because, Superheros, vigilantism and fascism- this is a time worn topic! Who watches the Watchmen etc isnt some groundbreaking oirginal hot take. massive spider fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Sep 8, 2022 |
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Sep 8, 2022 11:52
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Bust Rodd posted:Batman, canonically, beats crazy people into bloody pulps, often in the rain, under the auspices of protecting the innocent from the cruel dregs of Gotham City, when the truth is simply that Bruce Wayne could turn the city around with his philanthropy more than he ever could change it with his Muay Thai wrist grabs and utility belts. He’s literally shaping the world through violence, despite essentially having all the powers of a politician or legislator who could enact meaningful systemic change. Hes tried that, it doesn't work because Gotham is literally cursed. All he can do is fight crime to try to keep things kind of even. You also have things like Court of Owls that counter normal methods *That's how the writers got around the Batman issue.
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Sep 8, 2022 16:10
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Darko posted:Hes tried that, it doesn't work because Gotham is literally cursed. All he can do is fight crime to try to keep things kind of even. You also have things like Court of Owls that counter normal methods Raz did nothing wrong.
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Sep 8, 2022 16:31
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massive spider posted:I return again to the example of Oppenheimer Smith, the fascist who is sincerely “doing his duty” for what he sees as the greater good. Obergruppenführer Smith is one of the best television characters in recent history, people should be watching The Man In The High Castle instead of arguing about whether Spiderman is a fascist.
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Sep 8, 2022 16:47
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I don't think Obergruppenführer Smith is being a Nazi for "the greater good", he sees it as the only way to keep his family safe in the new Nazi world. There's a little speech, by his wife maybe, been a minute, about how playing along with the Nazis started as simple survival in the early days of the occupation. John is still a complete bastard though so I guess motivation doesn't much matter.
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Sep 8, 2022 17:00
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That's how it starts, a vulnerable man with a family in chaotic dangerous times makes a decision to survive. But you wear a mask long enough, it stops being a mask.
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Sep 8, 2022 17:05
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Wheeee posted:Obergruppenführer Smith is one of the best television characters in recent history, people should be watching The Man In The High Castle instead of arguing about whether Spiderman is a fascist. I never watched it but now that I know Rufus Sewell is the main antagonist I’m going to
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Sep 8, 2022 17:51
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I coudn't get though season 1 because the main leads were so boring and had zero romantic chemistry and then you got Burn Goreman being so eviiiiiill! He collects fingers! But I did hear it gets better after season 1.
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Sep 8, 2022 17:55
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2nd level spells posted:I don't think Obergruppenführer Smith is being a Nazi for "the greater good", he sees it as the only way to keep his family safe in the new Nazi world. There's a little speech, by his wife maybe, been a minute, about how playing along with the Nazis started as simple survival in the early days of the occupation. John is still a complete bastard though so I guess motivation doesn't much matter. He's definitely doing it for survival, not for any greater good he could do. There's a scene in the show of when the Nazis first take over, and he immediately abandons his Jewish friend being sent to his death so he can become part of the Nazi army and stay alive.
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Sep 8, 2022 18:01
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Man in the High Castle is excellent and everyone should go watch it, especially since the people in this thread already have an Amazon account. I always thought it felt sort of how LOST should have been.
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Sep 8, 2022 18:41
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"Is Spider-Man A Fascist" - the (second) greatest thread in the history of forums, locked by a moderator after 1,448 pages of heated debate,
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Sep 8, 2022 18:53
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christmas boots posted:"Is Spider-Man A Fascist" - the (second) greatest thread in the history of forums, locked by a moderator after 1,448 pages of heated debate, 
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Sep 8, 2022 19:38
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Sep 8, 2022 19:39
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nice try acting like you don’t know what’s up, buddy
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Sep 8, 2022 20:24
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Tbf it would have landed better if I’d gotten the actual number right
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Sep 8, 2022 20:40
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It's German for The Hitler
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Sep 8, 2022 21:42
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GD_American posted:I never watched it but now that I know Rufus Sewell is the main antagonist I’m going to He's not even "the main antagonist," really. It's complicated, and why the show is good. Especially from season 2 onward, where the writers realized that those who benefit from the power structure - Smith, Kido, Tagomi - are far more interesting as characters than boringly pretty people like Julia or Joe. The dystopian premise of "what if the Nazis won" pretty quickly becomes a meta-commentary on how amenable American society would've been (and still is) to Nazism. Smith is absolutely not "a true believer." But he's also not resisting anything, does his job because he's obligated to and doesn't want to jeopardize his position. His arc is about the banality of evil, which is far more fertile ground for character than if he was just some kind of mask-off Nazi.
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Sep 8, 2022 22:20
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Yestermoment posted:Raz did nothing wrong. Ra's al Ghul is my favorite Batman villain because he shares my utter contempt for humanity and is classy while doing it when not being some weird stand-in for writers who don't know poo poo about Asian or Near Eastern cultures.
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Sep 8, 2022 22:22
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Xealot posted:Smith is absolutely not "a true believer." But he's also not resisting anything, does his job because he's obligated to and doesn't want to jeopardize his position. His arc is about the banality of evil, which is far more fertile ground for character than if he was just some kind of mask-off Nazi. Smith believes in power and through that lens, that the nazis were doing something right. the show ends a season too early. It desperately needed a wrap-up, at least.
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Sep 8, 2022 23:34
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christmas boots posted:You mean this Kitty Pryde? Kitty "Whyte" Pryde
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Sep 8, 2022 23:35
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Cranappleberry posted:Smith believes in power and through that lens, that the nazis were doing something right. I suppose he did, and that's probably also the way he felt about the US Army before losing the war. I guess I viewed this attitude as, "some things are out of my pay grade." He was comfortable not thinking about aspects of the political world he enforced. When faced with actual leadership and real choices, the situation for Smith looks and feels quite different. The ending to the show is unfortunately stupid as hell, though, I agree. Stephen Root's excited, "it's happening!!" was infuriating. What's happening? I mean, I guess NaziWorld is being invaded by multiversal variants of people who died there, but why? To what end? Why does this matter? I do think the stuff with Smith and his wife in the last season was pretty great, though. Sadly, Man in the High Castle is also a lesson in how seemingly obvious arguments are invisible to far right viewers with zero self-awareness. Tons of neo-Nazis watched MitHC as alt-history porn, where the Nazi super-technology was awesome and the utopian mega-architecture Berlin was even more awesome and the world with basically no minorities in it was the awesomest. "Homelander is a good guy" is perfectly in line with that.
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Sep 9, 2022 00:16
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Xealot posted:The ending to the show is unfortunately stupid as hell, though, I agree. Stephen Root's excited, "it's happening!!" was infuriating. What's happening? I mean, I guess NaziWorld is being invaded by multiversal variants of people who died there, but why? To what end? Why does this matter? I do think the stuff with Smith and his wife in the last season was pretty great, though. Man in the High Castle spoilers While the show has little in common with the original book other than the alt-history setting and the names of some of the principal characters, there's a certain kind of symmetry here that I find amusing, though I do not think the show runners had it in mind. The book ends with Juliana meeting Hawthorne, and together they discover that the Grasshopper is true, i.e. it is a story of the real events, and (potentially) the reality depicted in The Man in the High Castle isn't real. So nothing really matters. Whereas in the show, the multiverse being real seems to very much matter, as if all realities are equally real.
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Sep 9, 2022 00:33
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That post about batman being a fascist made me lol
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Sep 9, 2022 00:35
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Mr.Acula posted:That post about batman being a fascist made me lol Wears black and grey, checks out to me
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Sep 9, 2022 09:51
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I tried watching MitHC several times now, but I never managed to stick with it. I just couldn't bring myself to give a single poo poo about the designated protagonists Crain, Blake, or Frink. Meanwhile the actually interesting parts around Smith and Tagomi (and their respective families) didn't get nearly the runtime they deserved.
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Sep 9, 2022 10:27
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Perestroika posted:I tried watching MitHC several times now, but I never managed to stick with it. I just couldn't bring myself to give a single poo poo about the designated protagonists Crain, Blake, or Frink. Meanwhile the actually interesting parts around Smith and Tagomi (and their respective families) didn't get nearly the runtime they deserved. Yeah, same. I was hooked at first and then it just felt like it was treading water. Maybe I'll try picking it up again.
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Sep 9, 2022 10:30
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Yeah in High Castle, some of the parts with the protagonists are boring as hell for long stretches. This continues to happen throughout the show. at least with Tagomi, he uses it to better himself and it leads to a satisfying emotional resolution
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Sep 9, 2022 11:56
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2nd level spells posted:Man in the High Castle is excellent and everyone should go watch it, especially since the people in this thread already have an Amazon account. I always thought it felt sort of how LOST should have been. Gonna agree with the other poster the first season blew especially if you're familiar with the original material
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Sep 9, 2022 12:36
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I respectfully disagree.
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Sep 9, 2022 17:52
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So you can just skip to season 2? I've rarely seen less charismatic leads than Joe and Julia before.
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Sep 9, 2022 18:54
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The show is best when it's about the villains. I think season 1 has some important stuff for John Smith (the American Naziman), if you can bother skipping around.
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Sep 9, 2022 19:03
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twistedmentat posted:So you can just skip to season 2? I've rarely seen less charismatic leads than Joe and Julia before. There's some relevant plot in S1 apart from them, but yeah their specific story doesn't really matter. Spoilers if you care: their "romance" and Joe's conflict as a double agent barely matters later. Julia remains relevant as a SF resistance person, and for her interactions with Abendsen, so we're stuck with her throughout. But Joe quickly leans Nazi and has an unrelated plot about that, and eventually isn't in the show anymore. The show definitely understands after S1 that the "villains" are more interesting, and they quickly become POV characters.
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Sep 9, 2022 19:52
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I guess Tagomi doesn't count as a villain, but John Smith and Kido are undeniably monsters. Just complex ones, which makes them interesting!
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Sep 9, 2022 20:14
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https://twitter.com/theboystv/status/1568283340179849216?s=46&t=iDviJRgGhgVbNElYTjDHSQ
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Sep 9, 2022 20:54
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A week off work seemed like a good time to finally check out True Detective, and hey, that's (a very young) Erin Moriarty as Woody Harrelson's daughter! Show's a black pit of despair & really good so far
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Sep 10, 2022 18:32
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davidspackage posted:A week off work seemed like a good time to finally check out True Detective, and hey, that's (a very young) Erin Moriarty as Woody Harrelson's daughter! The first season is some of the best TV ever I have a bit more fondness for the second than most people (mostly because Colin Farrell's really good in it), but it's an enormous step down The third season is kind of a recapitulation of the first but not as good, but it's an improvement But yeah, appreciate the first season while you've got it *takes enormous drawn-out drag on cigarette while staring intently*
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Sep 10, 2022 19:20
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Yeah the first season of True Detective is fantastic and I audibly gasped when Alexandra Daddario took her top off, quite the experience.
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Sep 10, 2022 19:34
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Didn't care for it and thought it hit all the "prestige TV" bingo card points like it was designed by committee. Portlandia does a good job spoofing the ubiquitous prestige intro music as well. But I know I'm the outlier since I don't like the Game of Thrones theme either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2GikVQXvf0
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Sep 10, 2022 20:20
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Yeah the first season of True Detective is fantastic and I audibly gasped when Alexandra Daddario took her top off, quite the experience. It's good to have some reminder that the world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.
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Sep 10, 2022 20:24
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Yeah True Detective season 1 is a total masterpiece. There are a variety of criticisms one could lobby against it but ultimately it’s just one of the best crime dramas ever produced with absolutely peerless performances by Harrelson & the de facto start of the McConaugh-aissance that lead to some of the biggest hits of his career. The cheating handcuff scene with Daddario & Harrelson is one of the hottest scenes in TV history, cementing her as obsession for millions across the globe for years to come! Never saw S2, S3 was better but it could have been way, way gayer. It’s weird that the dad and his detective partner were so obviously closeted gay men and the show never really addressed it or explored how that contributed to the atmosphere of the case. Oh well, S4 is probably gonna completely loving rock.
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Sep 10, 2022 21:54
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