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Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

The entire industry is filled with creeps, basically.

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Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

They're called whisper networks. Groups of people who quietly warn each other about things without working to upset the actual organization.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Arsenic Lupin posted:

This is a hinky way of describing "Describing severe domestic partner abuse, after which the ex-partner, who already had substantial mental health issues, committed suicide."

Zoe Quinn didn't drive anybody to suicide.

If anything caused it all of this happening at once + him getting fired would be enough, especially if he was in a bad spot mentally to begin with. It's not really any one person's fault, but a cascade of issues that fed into themselves until the only way he felt he could escape it was death. Like, most of the people here are depressed and have thought about this, poo poo can spiral real quick if it hits fast enough.

like it'd go "i can't make music anymore > my life is meaningless without music > my life is meaningless"

It's also pretty likely that his abuse also stemmed (at least partly) from his depression. Lots of times people tend to hyperfocus on things they have control over when they're despondent, and sometimes people made the horrible choice of doing that to another person, or doing it to a relationship, which is both unhealthy and dangerous.

If anything this just points to a need within the industry for actual oversight. A union would have the ability to handle situations like these, I think, and the US absolutely needs better mental health care.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

a new app called whispr where you can post anonymously about industry figures and tag them based on sex crimes

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

I mean, you don't really feel a need to put out a statement when you've decided to kill yourself, lets be real here.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

StrixNebulosa posted:

He picked the single most destructive way to hurt his victims. It's perfect revenge for them daring to go public with what they suffered.

e: That may not have been his intent, but it is the result.

I can guarantee you he wasn't thinking about them, or probably anyone else. The path of the destructive thoughts that leads to suicides almost always travels down the path of self-immolation before hitting resignation and giving in. Acting like he's some evil puppetmaster cartoon character throwing himself off a bridge in order to spite the heroes is childish dehumanization. He was a mentally unwell dude with broken, unhealthy views on what relationships are.


Captain Oblivious posted:

This is what you're not getting man. It literally always like this. Vic, Soule, people know they're abusers of some stripe every single time and it gets swept under the rug. Sometimes for decades! Just look at how it was an open secret with Vic. Power protects power, and power ESPECIALLY protects male power.

There. Is. No. Other. Way.

A lot of what leads to poo poo like this is corporate culture, and the bystander effect. People feel uncomfortable or are worried about their own position being threatened, so they don't say anything, even if they recognize what's happening. The Soule stuff is an example. I don't know what can be done about it other than continuing to speak up, and hopefully the #metoo gaming stuff will lead to people being more willing to do so, especially if they see it happening.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

https://twitter.com/zapjackson/status/1169048009633460225

https://twitter.com/zapjackson/status/1169048474282680321

https://twitter.com/zapjackson/status/1169048942375403521

bonus points:

https://twitter.com/Armakk/status/1169122803771162624

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

the two sides of emotional intelligence, in tweet form.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007


is she saying that zach's apology thing was fake or insincere? or is this just about his friend trying to cover for him

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Arsenic Lupin posted:

Furthermore, she's said in one of her linked essays that apparently he's been telling other people about how much he regrets what he did to his wife, and how much he's changing in therapy ... but he's never made the effort to apologize to her directly.

It brings up an interesting quesiton of when / if you apologize if you've done something like that, or have that in your past; you don't have any real idea of the headspace of the person you'd be apologizing to, and the last thing you want to do is revisit a toxic relationship. I heard that a good solution to this is to mail them a letter or send an email apology and they can read it if / when they want to but that seems insincere by itself

e: not that i'm trying to defend jick here but I kinda understand his reasoning for not talking to her directly

Grapplejack fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Sep 7, 2019

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Arsenic Lupin posted:

You're imputing that reasoning to him, though. All his victim knows is that he ignored her up until the time he couldn't pretend nothing had happened any more.

If you know you've done something wrong, apologizing to everybody else but the person you wronged is an ugly look. He could have sent her a letter. He could have asked a mutual friend to find out if she wanted an apology. He could have made a public statement without demanding that she respond to it at all. He did a very grave wrong: physical abuse, emotional abuse, and glossing over rape. Then he didn't take the risk of exposing himself to his victim's anger.

That's true, I was making guesses at things I couldn't know.

Yardbomb posted:

This sounds really weird and lovely.

rkajdi is weird and lovely, yes. He's in the moviebob territory of not wanting poors to vote because they're too dumb to understand anything

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

I'm surprised it's just been tiny indie devs so far, honestly. I can think of a lot of AA people who are absolute scumbags that i'm sure have lots of this poo poo waiting in the wings.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

KOL UPDATE: Jick continues radio silence, most of the community that's left has started to collapse. Radio KOL is ending, the sl_ascend program (used to help automate ascensions) has lost all of its coders, lots of old community members are leaving. KOL (the webgame) might not survive this year.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Kai Tave posted:

Is that all a result of his abuses coming to light or was it happening already and the abuses just pushed it over the tipping point?

The latter. KOL has been on life support for like, years now. Asym doesn't care about the browser game and won't put the effort needed into it to bring it up to 2019 quality (or, like, 2012 quality, who are we kidding). This happening was just enough to get people to go "well this game has zero attention paid to it and also jick sucks so why even bother anymore"

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

What would her name be? Rich auntie Pennybags? Are they related? Is it his wife??

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

I think it's his niece?

Ah, Sandy Pennybags.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

https://twitter.com/prettydarke/status/1171931679834787840

I can't believe Jick turned out to be such a piece of poo poo :(

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Cardiovorax posted:

Dunno what Jdate is, but I consider it a standing in general. If you're into your faith (or lack of it) enough to put it into your dating profile or wherever, then you're probably too into it to be tolerable for me to be around for extended amounts of time.

Jdate is a Jewish dating site.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

KOL UPDATE:
https://twitter.com/prettydarke/status/1173691508786024448

Turns out I was wrong and Jick actually hasn't grown at all

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

KOL UPDATE:
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-09-23-games-professor-accuses-kingdom-of-loathing-designer-of-abuse

quote:

In a statement provided to GamesIndustry.biz, Johnson denied several of the accusations:

"The allegations against me of physical abuse are false, as are all the accusations of misconduct against Kevin [Simmons] and most of the document's depictions of one-dimensional villainy. Aliah [A.M] did not work on Kingdom of Loathing except to provide feedback, and her name has been placed in that section of the game's credits, as per her request. I have made my apologies, and I wish her the best in the future."

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

KOL UPDATE:

http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/showthread.php?t=240428

In classic jick tradition it's weaselly and he mostly just tries to pay to make the problem go away

It's a decent apology and I would have accepted it if the gameindustry article didn't come out like, less than a week ago. The community is still largely unhappy with it.

E: I should also point out that the IOTM this month is incredibly overpowered to further tempt people back in

Grapplejack fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Oct 4, 2019

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

quote:

The forums are not my domain, but I wanted to add some clarity to the situation:

The account Phoenix has in no way been hindered from posting. About two weeks ago, she asked if there was a way to remove old posts because she thought that some of the things that she said twelve years ago might be problematic. Forum histories are never cleared that way, and she was informed of this. So she decided to break forum rules and make a multi (almost never allowed and when it is you have to get permission first), Enixpho. She then started posting from that account.

Typically, a forum multi gets removed immediately. But these being interesting times, nobody wanted to make any rash decisions. So the account was allowed to stay, but it was put in a status where any posts from that account have to be approved by a mod. Again, the Phoenix account has no restrictions. It is only the against-the-rules multi that has this restriction.

Having read the post, it in no way belongs in this forum. It is a message to Jick, and can be sent to him in dozens of ways. At the very least it would have been edited to remove an email address but had it been posted it probably would have been taken down entirely.

I do not understand why Phoenix decided to make a new account (she does have access to her original account), Enixpho. I think that we all understand that things that happened 10+ years ago might be embarrassing and shameful, but we also realize that people change.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Yeah this post is extremely obviously Jick writing it and it's really crafty in how it tries to frame everything, it's super hosed up

If anything asym staff needs to get jick to gently caress off for a few months, he literally can't stop making everything worse because he's so averse to accepting any blame for anything.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Endorph posted:

gay person: i think this thing portrays gay people kinda badly but i get why some people like it
straight dude: ah, so its bad for gay people and nobody should like it, i get it
2nd gay person: actually i like it a lot
straight dude: wtf how dare you like the bad thing you awful monster

This is exactly how the thread ended up going lmao

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Nairo has completely nuked his online presence

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007


Someone should probably check on Nairo, I'm getting big "I'm just going to kill myself" vibes from his recent actions

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

EVO is dead now

https://twitter.com/NetherRealm/status/1278831639833931776

https://twitter.com/CapcomFighters/status/1278834483995660288

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

https://twitter.com/JisuArtist/status/1278843558401675264

the entire community is burning to ashes

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

https://twitter.com/BNEesports/status/1278853626748796929

https://twitter.com/ManeSix/status/1278847031340130305

ok so what I said before was semi in jest but evo is genuinely dead now. They now have no games and no sponsors

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

They also use their positions in communities as a way to passively enforce these things too. Sky was the gatekeeper for Smash, and if you loved that community you were more willing to put up with him.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

I think it's permissable if it's a direct quote, but I'm not a mod. :v:

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

I wonder if Vivendi is still considering that hostile takeover because they sure as poo poo could get it now

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

It looks like the original accusation is fake but there's a bunch of actual poo poo floating out now that makes him look like a creep, the redbard retweets especially

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

I'm hearing poo poo about gpm being involved, which if he is lol gpm is a genuine scumbag who got kicked out of vinesauce for stealing charity money and regularly streams with groomers

Both mandalore and shammy appear to have undone their retweets and issued an apology, which is weird. They were both early rters

https://twitter.com/Lord_Mandalore/status/1378221233536446465?s=20

https://twitter.com/ShammyTV/status/1378228319120986117?s=20

This whole fiasco is loving bizarre

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Honestly I'm just surprised that Vinny fucks, I assumed he was volcel


Ibram Gaunt posted:

Gotta love when some trolls on /v/ fabricating the original accusation basically poisoned the waters for any other statement.

I don't think /v/ had anything to do with it tbh. There's some internet detectiving to try to guess who it was that tossed out the original accusation but like, that's about it. The mandalore / shammy thing is probably the weirdest part of all of this tbh since they have like, no connection to vinesauce or that sphere at all

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Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

It's largely because the stuff with vinny and GPM's immediate support led to all the poo poo that GPM had been covering up exploding out (my understanding is that he would regularly stream with and had mods who were known predators)

so even if the stuff with vinny ends up not being true at all at least something good came of all this

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