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BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
I'm gonna assume this current godawful stuttering lag is because of new set player volume and not because everyone suddenly got more brain damage than usual?

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BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Hey how are you supposed to deal with removal as a Simic deck. Counterspells the only way? Move your creatures back into your hand? Thoughts and prayers?

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

Bust Rodd posted:

LoL at the dude literally admitting to alt-tabbing his game against a roper while complaining about other players being distracted just LMAO
Roping is not "being distracted" but go off I guess

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

Paul Zuvella posted:

playing slowly on purpose is just as bad as playing slowly on accident.
Objectively untrue. When you tab-out, you still get a flashing notification when your opponents make a move. Yes, obviously, the game isn't going to be lightning-fast speed-MTG in that case, but to compare that to people intentionally stalling out rounds when they have two cards in their hand, hoping the opponent will just concede out of annoyance, is bizarrely disproportionate and downplays one of the legit issues with Arena.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
If you're not a roper and are in fact playing at the reasonable pace that you yourself expect others to be playing at, then you're not going to be playing against someone alt-tabbing out to deal with your roping or slow rear end in the first place. So what's the issue here?

Even considering that, I would 100% percent prefer to play against someone slightly distracted, or someone with a slow connection, than someone intentionally stalling. And you can tell. Come on. This is none of our first rodeos You can easily tell.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Look I know the game has a lot of issues or whatever buttt how come Oko the Trickster doesn't have any voicelines right now? :mad:

Did they like...forget that this Oko also exists when they were recording?

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Is protection from color just flat broken now? I've had a couple games now where I used Gods Willing on my creature, but the opponent creature's deathtouch still activates when I block them and my creature still dies.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

Zero VGS posted:

Questing Beast has "damage can't be prevented" which overrides the damage prevention from protection. Same with Stomp.
Oh. :eng99:

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
...What are the "did you have fun in the match?" polls supposed to do?

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
I'm pretty sure I know the answer but are there any plans to mitigate how oppressive Thassa and Agent of Treachery is? This is worse than when everyone was slobbering over Teferi's dick. I see a blue land and I already know the match is going to be "so" "fun." :rolleyes:

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

Jabor posted:

You could counter the problem cards (if you're in Blue), and/or exile Thassa before Agent becomes an issue (if you're in White).

Or you can win before they get to 7 mana (if you're in Red).
I mean...Sure, everything has a counterplay of some kind. And anyone who's playing those things is going to watching for those counterplays, just like you are constantly on guard against theirs. No player is sitting there twiddling their thumbs politely allowing you to outplay them. Such is MTG. And if that's all it was, then no one would ever complain about anything being unbalanced, but that's obviously not the case with everything, and particularly not with Agents and Thassa. It's just uniquely oppressive in a way that annihilates your boardstate while snowballing your opponents'. I'm generally using Selesnya enchantments or Simic flash. I've stuffed my pants full of exiles and counterspells...and all it still takes is a single round of something, literally anything, not going exactly the way it needs to go for any win-con I have to just get shat on.

Sorry, you're probably just offering helpful suggestions, but it's really not as simple as "well, how come people don't just do this?" People do. But some stuff is just unbalanced and that's all there really is to it.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Just tripled Frilled Mystic countered, in immediate succession, two Cavaliers of Night and one Liliana :heysexy:

This is a bs nonsense game but then rarely, every once in a while, it is bs nonsense in your favor.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
I think I'm done with Arena for the time being. It was a great learning tool, it passed a lot of time, yay I got to Mythic, etc etc...but the more I play, the more I feel that the general scope of high tier play in a game where you can cram as many high tier cards in your deck as you want seems designed to make said game as unfun as possible. Even when I win -- and good luck winning against the sorts of unbalanced setups that the game encourages -- it just feels like I simply managed to outjank my opponent in a jank-off. Ikoria seems...lively, at least?...and I'm still looking forward to playing some live-action MTG when the plague times are over, but the Arena format has just worn me down.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
So I've been getting back into this recently after noping out circa Ikoria, and I gotta agree Historic seems pretty awful for a litany of reasons, but I don't really understand yet why it's been awful thanks to Alchemy specifically. What is it about this thing in particular that screws up the metagame? Someone explain it to me like I haven't played for two years, which I haven't :v:?

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

The Wicked ZOGA posted:

Don't 'Your Go' me on turn two because I've spent five seconds considering my play you unutterable chode. I'm gonna kill your parents.
:hmmyes: Hard agree

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Why is it always, specifically, the mono-red players who are ironically the slowest players?

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

flatluigi posted:

if you're highly ranked, the answer is 'playing a burn/mono-R/similar deck once you get past a certain skill threshold is a lot harder than you'd think and finding the right line to kill someone before they stabilize can be tough.'

Drewjitsu posted:

The difference between 19 and 20 is the difference between a win and a loss, and the one point of damage that matters occurred on turn 3, not the final turn.
Ah, so you're saying I should spam emotes at them through the whole round try and break their concentration. Gotcha. :hmmyes:

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
I guess at this point I don't really understand what the, like, "optimum" state of historic should be, for both the playerbase and the devs.

Are they trying to make it so that every single person plays the same seven or eight decks, with the same exact cards, in every single game? Is the whole point to make the meta completely cramped and stingy? Because that's what's happening.

I don't know if I'm in the minority on this but that just feels so weird to me. There are over six thousand cards in the game and historic specifically is the format that allows for the most sets to draw from, and yet is also the area with the narrowest actual playing field (hrourf druorf L̷̰̣̖̀Ī̸̼̖̟͑F̵͈̾̌̚È̷̙̼͎G̴̨͎̬̒̊̔Ä̴͙́̍͘͜I̶̮̹͌N̵̞͆͠͝). But then I don't know what I would do to fix it either, whether the answer is more or less bans, more or less errata, but every time I dip my toes in the water again I just can't help but wonder if...this is what everyone actually wants the game to be like? This is...working as intended?

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Enforce chat but only in ranked games and drafts :unsmigghh:

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Just ban Scurry Oak. There, problem solved.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
There's like two or three here that are definitely a bit..."wait, forreal? This was a priority?" and a couple others that I still can't imagine anyone ever using, even with the changes, but...yeah, these are generally Pretty Good.

[salt]They just don't...like...fix any of the actual problems with Historic, which is still going to just be a fundamentally lopsided format where white moves faster than red/builds more than green, red has better graveyard mechanics than black/green, and green is just there for elves and Ugin.[/salt]

...but yeah uh gently caress Cat, anything that nerfs it is good

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
uhhhhhhh excuse me I cannot change the color of my owl anymore, 0/100 worst update

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

MasterBuilder posted:

But in a fighting game or RTS there is some skill in being able to execute the cheesy combo. The linear decks in magic are just dump hand, hope they don't have a sweeper.
See, in my heart I agree with this sentiment because I too hate the same ol' :airquote: brainless :airquote: linear decks, but the flip side of this statement is that if you do have a sweeper, then they just...lose. The end. Their decks are super powerful, sure, but boardwipes of any kind are super powerful against them. The power creep goes both ways.

But then, my problem with this is that everyone is then forced to have to shove 8 (or more!) sweepers or removals a deck down their pants because, like, what else are you supposed to do? When everyone is playing decks with literal turn-2 wincon triggers, what else can you do but to hope you always have removals on hand, every hand, all the time? Which, in turn, just forces the other deck type have to lean even harder on cheap, OP, renewable weenies.

And there's no in-between in all this because the in-between decks get no traction on either side. So I can't build the decks I would actually like to build because I need room for half my deck to be removal, and everyone else can't budge an inch from the mono-color aggro for fear of risking their wincon. And none of this feels like this makes the meta very good or fun but apparently this is just...fine? Most players are fine with this and think this is just how things should work? Or at least think that this is too ingrained a problem to be able to fix, and honestly I can't disagree too much with that.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Historic. Apologies, I whine so much about Historic I'd forgotten it wasn't the default state of being.


e: Here, it's not a turn two wincon but I took a screenshot of a turn-3 Kogala that seemed particularly bullshitty to me but is just a completely normal thing in this format. My surveil deck didn't have anything to remove weenies on the first two turns and two lands of the game, so I guess I'll just die to the 7/6 chonker? And this is just how it is playing in the format, and I can't even honestly argue that it's all that OP because I'm sure every deck other than mine just has eight or nine variations of Heartless Act or Bloodchief's Thirst on hand all the time, because why wouldn't they? They'd meet the same end I did if they didn't.

BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Jul 13, 2022

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

PhilippAchtel posted:

They paid 6 mana to kill one creature and put a big dumb ape in play.

Of course, on the draw, you have to be able to disrupt that or deal with it, just like they would have to be able to deal with your plan if they want to win.
The original point I was making is that there's really only so much you can do when facing these types of decks, which forces you to play a certain way or else lose. What could I have done to curtail this situation? Cheap removal, of course. What should I do in the next turn against their play, if I had the choice? More removal! So I either devote a third of my cards to that, or else just lose consistently to mono-colored aggro, which the format is inundated with. Like it's nice that the solution is "don't play BO1" sooo we agree there's a problem with that specific format, then? :sweatdrop:

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Lmfao are you confusing me with someone? How about tomorrow, without fail, I don't give a hoot about the issue anymore 'cuz it's not worth the effort? like drat MTGA of all things does not need anyone to stan for it this hard

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Just to be clear: the surveil deck was one of many I have on rotation; I used that example because that was one of the few screenshots I had showcasing the mono-colored ramp in Historic. Here's another turn 3, where I'm using a reasonably up-to-date izzet deck.


Not as outright ridiculous as before but, again, same problem: Unless I had the exact answers on hand to have immediately dealt with Voice of the Blessed -- as in, at the very second he touched the ground back when I had one tapped specialty land on the board -- mono-white gets a 5/5 creature on round three with three other major advantages. Luckily for me, I can send VOTB back to their hand on the next turn...after which the two other literal one-mana cost weenies become even bigger threats thanks to the one-mana enchantment boosting their gimmick. Cool cool. Working as intended, apparently.

And also, just to be clear: I do have those answers! I have Shocks and Dragon's Breaths and so on in the RU deck! Just as I obviously had cards to have destroyed Kogla with in the surveil deck...but I didn't have them at hand on the third round of either game because I hadn't littered my deck with 4 copies of each, which the current meta absolutely incentivizes. Which leads back to the original point, where you're forced to have to build that way because of how fast and strong mono-R/G/W aggro is, leaving out a whole lot of other deck possibilities.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Creative Outburst can get me an artifact token for cheap, which I can either use as mana, or else Resculpt into another cheap 4/4 creature, usually when the attacker doesn't expect it because they also never expected anyone to use Resculpt :v:, or else use as easy fuel for something like Torrent Sculptor to make into my own 6/6 Warded creature early in the game. Resculpt on Saheeli's tokens get me two more tokens on the board. At absolute worst, C.O. is something for Prismari Command to discard if I'm starved for land or whatever else. All strats that have won me games -- this deck helped me into Mythic last season -- and, more importantly, make the game fun because there are something like 6000 cards in here to make unexpected combos with and running the same tired Goblins or Angels or Elves as everyone else sounds like the exact opposite of entertaining. :buddy:

Maybe that's the problem here, in the sense that this format really incentivizes you to play like everyone else when it seems bonkers to me to want to play like everyone else, so while I appreciate the deck advice, all these tips kinda boil down to "well why aren't you playing like everyone else?" when that's the thing I'm chafing at, the fact that this format has been feeling real constrained and narrow despite being the one that should technically offer the most options.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Still a more interesting deck than a ton I've seen :v:

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BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Why do y'all speak as if it couldn't always get worse :xd:

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