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three mana teferi was one of the best cards in the game and was banned in historic before they unbanned it and made it cost one more idk how i feel about the historic nerfs in total but i do think i'd rather still be able to play with a card that is the only one that fits its role (like in the combo you're trying to make) than not being able to do it at all? when they brought omnath back i was excited to play him in historic brawl again, even if he wasn't as soul sucking as he was before
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Jul 11, 2022 06:29
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lmfao gently caress this, apparently executing this combo doesn't count as an action and I ended up roping... Maybe I could have gone faster if I didn't play three kittens but I wanted to be insulated against removal If I can't do this I might as well not even play the deck I guess, I am 8-28 with it today lol Edit: maybe i end on this high note having "successfully" executed the combo lol (the opponent conceded while i still had 20 cards to go). Maybe it's more a nice idea than something I actually should play  Edit 2: After going back over Bosh N Roll's videos on this, thinking about how much more powered down this would have to be compared to Legacy, and whether the Kitten is worth it, I'm taking another stab. Jeskai stretching for Fable and Expressive iteration was adding power, but I was also getting pinched on mana. Gonna try paring it down to Azorius while upping interaction. In the videos, he mentions that "Value Cat" was doing more work than trying to go for the combo, so I do have the cards in there as one-ofs but won't be trying for it as much. In addition to planeswalkers, Kitten can blink Omen or Skyclave Apparition for value here now...  (Hmm I think I might slot in a Tormod's crypt maindeck just to hate on graveyard decks? It seems like it would be less of a tax since if I have a kitten, 0 cost spells do something) CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 06:52
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Can anyone suggest some cheap upgrades to this deck? I have very few wild cards available so I'd prefer to add cards that won't rotate out of standard in September. Deck 4 Inspiring Overseer (SNC) 18 1 Eaten Alive (MID) 99 3 Soulknife Spy (AFR) 75 3 Island (SNC) 265 3 Plains (SNC) 263 3 Moon-Circuit Hacker (NEO) 67 1 Mnemonic Sphere (NEO) 64 2 The Modern Age (NEO) 66 1 Shakedown Heavy (SNC) 95 2 Wizard Class (AFR) 81 1 Metropolis Angel (SNC) 203 4 Waterfront District (SNC) 259 1 Kaito Shizuki (NEO) 226 2 Infernal Grasp (MID) 107 1 Raffine's Tower (SNC) 254 4 Deserted Beach (MID) 260 3 Shattered Sanctum (VOW) 264 3 The Meathook Massacre (MID) 112 4 Shipwreck Marsh (MID) 267 1 Void Rend (SNC) 230 1 Obscura Charm (SNC) 208 4 Murder (SNC) 88 2 Hero's Downfall (VOW) 120 4 Patch Up (SNC) 23 1 Bloodchief's Thirst (ZNR) 94 1 Acquisition Octopus (NEO) 44 I played mostly Jump In for a while, and eventually decided I liked drawing cards and removing creatures so I put together this deck from the cards I had handy. The first version was fun when it worked but usually too slow, so I crafted the rare lands and Meathook Massacres and I've been having some success with it in Bo1 ranked, but it's not winning as much now that I'm in gold. I'm thinking of taking out the Soulknife Spies and Acquisition Octopus for another Kaito Shizuki and a few more removal spells, and maybe adding one or two big creatures for finishing.
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Jul 11, 2022 09:16
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Hell of a game, opponent got super lucky to seek STP when I animated my hive to same themselves. Had a t2 Tasha and milled 50 cards. Did it again and hit 30 cards here and the scoops. 
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Jul 11, 2022 09:53
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Urcher posted:Can anyone suggest some cheap upgrades to this deck? I have very few wild cards available so I'd prefer to add cards that won't rotate out of standard in September. Ninjas (with no enablers  ) are not the best and Patch Up never gets you back more than one creature so you may as well play creatures instead. Idk about 3 mana creatures with no evasion that has to hit to draw. I'd also like to see a lot more cheaper creatures to enable Kaito. Cards that are essentially draw 2 for 4(wizards class, mnemonic ball) are too slow imo.I get that for a newer player with smaller collection it is hard to balance having enough good cards in a deck with fewer colors and having a good enough mana base for what you're playing. You've done well not to have white 1 and 2 drops. Personally if I play three colors I'd like to do some real nasty poo poo and for Esper in particular I'd like to run busted cards like Raffine with busted white aggro creatures or Ledger Shredders. So sticking to a Dimir base, I took the deck below on a 100% win run over, get this, two games in diamond, so basically a top meta unbeatable deck. this post is not a guarantee Graveyard Trespasser is one of the best creatures in standard. One-of Tenacious Underdog is well worth it. Channel lands go in every deck. Crooked Custodian are very medium to bad two-drop curve filler at common. Okiba Reckoner Raid enables ninjas and are a p good one drop. Deck 4 Inspiring Overseer (SNC) 18 2 Graveyard Trespasser (MID) 104 3 Swamp (HBG) 300 1 Island (SNC) 265 3 Moon-Circuit Hacker (NEO) 67 4 Consider (MID) 44 3 The Modern Age (NEO) 66 1 Shakedown Heavy (SNC) 95 4 Okiba Reckoner Raid (NEO) 117 1 Tenacious Underdog (SNC) 97 4 Waterfront District (SNC) 259 1 Kaito Shizuki (NEO) 226 2 Infernal Grasp (MID) 107 1 Raffine's Tower (SNC) 254 4 Deserted Beach (MID) 260 3 Shattered Sanctum (VOW) 264 3 The Meathook Massacre (MID) 112 4 Shipwreck Marsh (MID) 267 1 Void Rend (SNC) 230 4 Crooked Custodian (SNC) 71 2 Hero's Downfall (VOW) 120 1 Bloodchief's Thirst (ZNR) 94 1 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire (NEO) 268 1 Otawara, Soaring City (NEO) 271 1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire (NEO) 278 1 Plains (SNC) 263 If you added cards up to 5 mana like Sorin, Wandering Emperor, Obscura Interceptor, Invoke Despair you could play Tainted Indulgence for draw instead.
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Jul 11, 2022 12:13
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Thanks for the advice. I'll try it out next time I sit down to play.
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Jul 11, 2022 13:14
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Data findings... https://twitter.com/Sierkovitz/status/1546463588499558404?t=3R1QN-qdPjXGqSXo2TBFAw&s=19 Also whoa at Iron Golem as sixth best common... I wonder if that will hold, I know I found it difficult to play against
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Jul 11, 2022 18:34
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Data findings... It's at an extremely low # of games played tracked, give it time.
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Jul 11, 2022 18:49
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 In the Azorius control mirror this felt pretty good! The Immortal Sun didn't hamper my planeswalkers too much since Narset/Saheeli's static/triggered abilities carried the weight. They weren't really able to disrupt my engine, so getting scry 2, draw 1, and a 1/1 servo from a 1 mana spell pulled me ahead and I just chipped away at them. The fun-of Tormod's Crypt played well, stuffing their Azcanta and just getting value, it's pretty narrow I suppose but considering how many reanimator decks I run into, it seems worthwhile
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Jul 11, 2022 19:19
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Data findings... You attack a 3/1 into it and they're forced to block it, it's not complicated.
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Jul 11, 2022 19:24
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Lone Goat posted:You attack a 3/1 into it and they're forced to block it, it's not complicated. I mean, yes, I'm just saying that the content creator previews all gave it an auto-D https://twitter.com/Sierkovitz/status/1546495627982422016
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Jul 11, 2022 19:26
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I've tried it and it seems very medium, though a lot of the specialise creatures can modify stuff to give flying or first strike which is very useful I'm not sure its numbers will hold up tbh, though I remember it being stone unplayable last time round so it's at least better here
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Jul 11, 2022 19:46
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Whoo a clean combo execution, lol I was able to do it with 2.5 lengths of rope left, I just need to click very fast. I wish there was a way to make the triggers not block the planeswalker portion of the battlefield, and also your cards shimmying all over the place lol  I guess it's good that this version of the deck can win more fairly, I wouldn't want to do this every game but it's good to know that it can get a win sometimes
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Jul 11, 2022 20:26
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MikeCrotch posted:I've tried it and it seems very medium, though a lot of the specialise creatures can modify stuff to give flying or first strike which is very useful Even flying doesn't help much since it's obligated to get owned by the first 3/x doofus that attacks into it. Sample size is extremely small, and yeah it sucked major rear end in AFR, so don't go slamming it early in a draft just yet.
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Jul 11, 2022 20:29
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How many Islands would you need in your deck before slotting in Mystic Sanctuary?
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Jul 11, 2022 21:15
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:How many Islands would you need in your deck before slotting in Mystic Sanctuary? Are you asking about the infinite turn thing? I mean worst case scenario you can play it tapped, and still do the Kefnet + Time Warp later once you have 3 islands in play. Time Warp should be in just about every Historic Brawl deck with enough blue, and Kefnet is a solid 3-mana wincon that doesn't die to a lot of removal. I run mostly snow-islands in my Baral deck. Having actual blue for counterspells is more important than squeezing in a couple extra creature-lands, and also because the single Ascendant Spirit in my deck is a 1-mana wincon that has stolen many, many games. It needs snow-mana though, so it won't combo with your infinite Mox mana. flatluigi posted:if that was the case they wouldn't be complaining about seeing sewer plague, i think. maybe they just don't have any copies of humiliation in their collection? Eh, something weird was going on. Maybe I compared my Historic Brawl deck against spinning up a new deck and accidentally having it on Standard Brawl. It's still the epitome of bad design to have rule reminder text that tells you Perpetual persists when cards change zones, then not mention the one time it doesn't (Commanders), like you're just supposed to automatically know. Either revert it or add "except the Commander zone" to the explainer. Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 21:36
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Zero VGS posted:I run mostly snow-islands in my Baral deck. Having actual blue for counterspells is more important than squeezing in a couple extra creature-lands, and also because the single Ascendant Spirit in my deck is a 1-mana wincon that has stolen many, many games. It needs snow-mana though, so it won't combo with your infinite Mox mana. Oh, this is for the Kitten deck I'm working on.  Going off Frank Karsten's guide, I am playing 18 white sources to facilitate Skyclave Apparition. I am thinking about Mystic Sanctuary as value for regrowing Fading Hope or March of Otherworldly Light, primarily. I have 8 other Islands, and the choice is between Glacial Floodplain for another 4 Islands (but etb tapped), or Pathways for untapped mana but no types.
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Jul 11, 2022 21:50
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Using the Sanctuary just to topdeck a fading hope doesn't sound like amazing value. You could put in Tameshi, which is in your colors. She has synergy with Teferis and Fading Hope, and you can use her to put an Omen from your grave back to the battlefield while bouncing the Sanctuary at the same time, then replay a high-value card over and over, such as Dismiss. If you want something a bit less powerful than Apparition but cheaper, easier to splash, and harder to remove, you could consider Baffling End.
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Jul 12, 2022 00:42
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Lone Goat posted:Even flying doesn't help much since it's obligated to get owned by the first 3/x doofus that attacks into it. I've been watching ncaa_ play with it and tested it myself a few times. I think it's really only good in red, specifically with Haste granters (1/1 kobold or the recurrable Aura). The best case scenario other than the opponent having no board is that it attacks for 5 and is then available to block the next turn. It's a big swing in race situations and potentially steals games from the draw in aggro mirrors. It's still not a great card and there are much better creatures to put in the deck, but there is a lot of chaff in the set. It's a small sample and the stats are likely being dragged up by better players who are playing it in the right decks, I'm guessing even weaker players know to avoid the card.
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Jul 12, 2022 00:44
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Zero VGS posted:Using the Sanctuary just to topdeck a fading hope doesn't sound like amazing value. Ooh, thanks. Tameshi seems particularly interesting, since T3feri is now Te4eri it's a good lead-in, and in all of NEO I never parsed that it also works on returning opponent's stuff to their hand lol. I think I might shave an Opt and Omen (I don't really need too many of the latter as I'm leaning on blinking them) to put Tameshi in. Dismiss is also an interesting choice. The Disdainful Strokes are primarily there to deal with planeswalkers or major sorceries, but by the time I need them I'm also likely to be holding up 4 mana for Wandering Emperor anyway. That's also the reason I think I'll stick with Skyclave, the main thing it's there for is planeswalkers since I otherwise have plenty of non-counterspell options for artifacts/creatures/enchantments. Edit: Oh hell I forgot that I'm in Historic and can play Archmage's Charm lol This game was interesting, this deck feels pretty good to play now  I cast Tameshi, picked up Sanctuary to get Omen just like you drew it up lol. Replayed Sanctuary to put March on top of my library. They Bedeviled Tameshi, I Marched Bolas, then next turn I went Kitten, Narset, flickered Omen and got Skyclave Apparition, Used Narset to get Mox Amber, cast Mox Amber and flickered Omen to get a land, then I would have cast Opt to draw two more cards but they conceded lol CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jul 12, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 01:01
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Does Saheeli’s copy ability come up often? If not Sai Master Thopterist could be an upgrade with tokens that fly, and a draw ability.
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Jul 12, 2022 02:37
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Bugsy posted:Does Saheeli’s copy ability come up often? If not Sai Master Thopterist could be an upgrade with tokens that fly, and a draw ability. Saheeli is definitely a flex slot but right now I am leaning towards keeping her. She counts as a noncreature spell for Kitten, and the servos are good to chump block aggro (and allowing me to hold off any illusions that get created if I have to blink Skyclave to hit something else) or beat down once things have settled. Copying Kitten and getting twice the triggers is also amazing lol. Hmm, but if I am thinking about creatures... what if I just made this a Yorion deck lol... Edit: oh lmao I was able to repeatedly stuff a reanimator deck by Saheeli turning servos into Tormod's Crypts lol, ok she stays CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jul 12, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 04:11
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wei posted:I've been watching ncaa_ play with it and tested it myself a few times. I think it's really only good in red, specifically with Haste granters (1/1 kobold or the recurrable Aura). The best case scenario other than the opponent having no board is that it attacks for 5 and is then available to block the next turn. It's a big swing in race situations and potentially steals games from the draw in aggro mirrors. continuing Iron Golem discussion, data just got updated so there's enough of a sample size for Iron Golem now to be able to look at its stats for top players and WR decks only: Top players (Users who have had high win rates (relative to other 17Lands users) in at least 2 of the last 3 sets)  Boros decks (all players) 
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Jul 12, 2022 05:16
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i keep reading it as "Based Hippogriff"
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Jul 12, 2022 05:46
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Playing some Mono-W aggro today cuz its literally the next deck up in my rotation and my daily quest is just play lands and it really is just the most unfair and unfun deck to play
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Jul 12, 2022 14:24
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Unfun sure, but I don’t think it really gets more fair than attacking with a bunch of small creatures.
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Jul 12, 2022 14:34
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Turning your creatures sideways is literally the most honest and fair magic that exists. I will never understand the 'my way to play magic is the only fair way to play magic' mentality. It gives you a tremendous blind spot on how to navigate matchups when you are playing against the deck type you hate, with the deck you love. It's always good to get an idea of how a deck that you hate works by playing it. Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Jul 12, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 14:44
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not saying it's the case here but there's definitely an undercurrent in competitive games where people think playing the best strategies of the moment leads to less 'authentic' wins, because those other people clearly only won because they picked a top tier, or netdecked, or used a ~cheap~ strategy etc etc etc I don't really get it
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Jul 12, 2022 14:57
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flatluigi posted:not saying it's the case here but there's definitely an undercurrent in competitive games where people think playing the best strategies of the moment leads to less 'authentic' wins, because those other people clearly only won because they picked a top tier, or netdecked, or used a ~cheap~ strategy etc etc etc For the first couple years of Arena I was definitely the kind of player that wanted to win with my "own" slightly off-color (but not too janky) brew to prove to myself how smart and good I am at the game Once I figured out that I'm dumb and not that great all of a sudden "netdecking" doesn't seem so cheap anymore
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Jul 12, 2022 15:03
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flatluigi posted:not saying it's the case here but there's definitely an undercurrent in competitive games where people think playing the best strategies of the moment leads to less 'authentic' wins, because those other people clearly only won because they picked a top tier, or netdecked, or used a ~cheap~ strategy etc etc etc - I don't have super competitive decks, so if they aren't slow to pop off, I'll probably lose, because it's just a very, very efficient deck archetype - I only play BO1 so it's not like I can sideboard mass removal - because it's flavor of the season, you see the deck(s) a lot, and it's really boring to play against imo because it's very non-interactive; unless you've also got some sort of ramping going on, you're looking at creatures that quickly grow out of hand, so either you remove them directly or you stall somehow and fly over, most of the time you're just watching them gain a lot of life and make big bois, and they are never forced to accept unfavorable trades because of all the life, so there's not a lot happening on the field - it's a very simple deck in general. Everything happens automatically. You gain life when a creature enters and another one grows at the same time. You just play another creature and repeat the process. Might as well play against a computer Counterexamples, I was playing against a monored burn deck in historic artisan, that ruled because obviously they had to play well and adapt to what I put down etc., it was a very dynamic match. They won but the game was a lot of fun. Or someone's playing a plucky green ramp deck and they get to play their big boy dinosaur and I'm like hell yeah go for it. Some UB control thing, they kill a lot of my stuff and counter a few tricks, and I'm like mhm mhm buuut eventually I have more stuff than they can answer and I win, but that game felt like a conversation, you know? Not particularly fun to play against, but at least it was a solid back and forth. That's what I play Magic for, not to watch their numbers grow until they get too big or I swing over their line with a surprisingly big flier to end it quickly enough.
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Jul 12, 2022 15:12
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flatluigi posted:not saying it's the case here but there's definitely an undercurrent in competitive games where people think playing the best strategies of the moment leads to less 'authentic' wins, because those other people clearly only won because they picked a top tier, or netdecked, or used a ~cheap~ strategy etc etc etc This is, to borrow a fighting game community term, "scrub mentality". People want to protect their own ego by making the reason for their loss an external factor that is beyond their control.
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Jul 12, 2022 15:14
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Drewjitsu posted:This is, to borrow a fighting game community term, "scrub mentality". But in a fighting game or RTS there is some skill in being able to execute the cheesy combo. The linear decks in magic are just dump hand, hope they don't have a sweeper.
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Jul 12, 2022 15:56
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Drewjitsu posted:This is, to borrow a fighting game community term, "scrub mentality". No this is just the "what is fun" debate in different language. I personally get enjoyment out of running my own weird themed decks. I could definitely get more wins by playing a meta deck but that's not enjoyable to me so I don't do it. Like I see meathook massacre and the righteous Valkyrie virtually every time I log on but I don't have any decks built around those cards because they're obvious use cases and boring to me. However they are clearly good for getting wins if that's what you find fun. I don't put people down who want to focus on wins, but I also don't think it's necessary to assume people who don't want to do that are playing the game "wrong".
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Jul 12, 2022 16:03
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MasterBuilder posted:But in a fighting game or RTS there is some skill in being able to execute the cheesy combo. The linear decks in magic are just dump hand, hope they don't have a sweeper. lmao
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Jul 12, 2022 16:11
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MasterBuilder posted:But in a fighting game or RTS there is some skill in being able to execute the cheesy combo. The linear decks in magic are just dump hand, hope they don't have a sweeper. Not at all lol, sweepers can be played around, even during deck construction. I have 4x kumano, 4x rabbits, 3x lizard blades, 2x den of the bugbear, 4x battle cry goblin, and 2x fireblade charger. All my 3 drops and 4 drops have haste. Kumano can't be hit before flipping with most sweepers, reconfigure changes creatures to equipment, manlands are pretty obvious, they avoid sorcery speed removal in general and are best used when you have no better plays (like having your board blown up), battle cry goblin is a mana dump that is both a lord and can grown the board without committing too many more cards, and fireblade charger gives value when it dies (except to meathook). Later plays all having haste is also very relevant if someone just tapped down for a sweeper. Algid fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Jul 12, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 16:22
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Okay I concede. Maybe I'm in poo poo tier but the elves, goblins and angels decks I played against in historic were dump hand to win before turn 4 or coco after sweeper.
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Jul 12, 2022 16:30
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really that's because sweepers were so good in historic that the only way you were winning the game in some matchups was by overcommitting to the board. if you didn't go as fast as you could, your opponent was stabilizing almost immediately and you weren't coming back. i'm hoping that the meathook nerf helps on that front, but doomskar on 3 still really sucks + there's that one that bounces all your poo poo and makes it come back in tapped as well fwiw this is one of the main reasons why bo3 has an advantage over bo1 -- you learn what your opponent's on and you can sideboard to alter your strategies, leading to deeper gameplay and edging out gameplans that rely on your opponent not being prepared. if linear strategies and 'cheap decks' do bother you that much you should make the effort to swap queues and learn to sideboard
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Jul 12, 2022 16:41
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MasterBuilder posted:Okay I concede. Maybe I'm in poo poo tier but the elves, goblins and angels decks I played against in historic were dump hand to win before turn 4 or coco after sweeper. What are you doing for the first 4 turns?
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Jul 12, 2022 16:41
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MasterBuilder posted:But in a fighting game or RTS there is some skill in being able to execute the cheesy combo. The linear decks in magic are just dump hand, hope they don't have a sweeper. If this could be marked as exhibit #2 for the defence, please.
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Jul 12, 2022 16:43
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Remember your ABC's Always Be Crotch-chopping when you slam dunk a sweeper against someone who ejected a shitload of creature cards.
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Jul 12, 2022 17:15
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