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ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Mr.PayDay posted:

Ask him how many stretchgoals are done and what you can do in the SC PTU that you could not do in other games.

And how close we are to that 2013 scenario

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/12770-Chris-Roberts-On-Multiplayer-Single-Player-And-Instancing

That’s exactly what the BDSSE would look like. Too bad, like 99% of everything needed for that is still missing lol



Giving 250 million to this guy. What could possibly go wrong?

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ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:
Second largest, german mainstream IT news site Golem covers the lawsuit in an article. 10 comments, 7 are from the SC defense force. Even the new Fujitsu Happy Hacking Keyboard gains more attention there. I slowly get the feeling that the whole SC-"community" is a tiny, very vocal bunch with pretty deep pockets. The remainder of the gaming/IT world, let alone normal people, don't seem to care about it much.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Nowher posted:

The general public has completely lost all interest in Star Citizen, it is now seen as either a complete scam or an odd novelty. The delusion that once SC releases there will be thousands of players around to work as space janitors on a whale yacht is even more hilarious.

Yeah, and one has to be especially delusional to think that SQ53 (which is probably dead, anyway) will be a success on the scale of GTA V or the latest Call of Duty.
But in a way Chris already succeeded, he created the best game ever because it's something different for everyone and lives to 90% in peoples dreams. The remaining 10% that is real might be a buggy mess, but enough to let the dreamers imagine what could be and let them have a hell of a time buying ships and theorycrafting. A SQ53 release would destroy that, so I think the lawsuit is quite good for CRs exit strategy in regards to SQ53.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

biglads posted:

How's the tank gameplay coming along?

My Tumbril Cyclone is gathering dust since 1.5 years :(

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

TheAgent posted:

hello
  • Germany is expected to give over $10m in tax credits to F42 in 2020(1?) alone
  • costs continue to rise and studios continue to expand which promote higher tax incentives
  • "You can make money from failure. Thank the taxpayers for keeping us alive and investment spry."
  • a new hire is expected to be an "expert" in less than 12 weeks from hire date
  • confusion about what exactly management does or what newly hired "leads" do
  • "rudderless" direction until "last second" changes, including art and design
  • due to this, programmers create shortcuts that will be "fixed later"
  • if those programmers leave, it causes massive confusion within the team as they try and piece together solutions
  • this happens "often" but should be "eased" in 2020 due to new 3rd party help from an outside firm
  • this help involves a custom built CE toolset, better regs and code oversight
  • "This isn't something everyone is happy about."
  • this includes "dailies-like" bi-monthly updates to top brass and outside firm
  • the sq42 visual teaser shown xmas day was one of these
  • updates consist of three "courses": gameplay, in-game visuals and cutscenes
  • supposedly SQ42 content is already in SC - mission givers like miles eckhart are considered SQ42 NPCs
  • huge issue when the 3rd party played a recent SC patch (3.8?)
  • "They were surprised because [CR? ER?] gave them the impression of a fully-functioning game with little-to-no bugs."

Exactly like speculated in this thread. Everyone working in software engineering knows the feeling of sitting in front of a huge pile of over-engineered code, sprinkled with hacks, shortcuts and the like, trying to fix this one bug and ends up building another balcony after 2 months to solve this specific issue while creating 3 more in the future.
The whole development was never sustainable in the first place.

What does "better regs" mean, better regulations or do they switch to a requirement driven dev model? I can imagine that the latter would be exactly the thing an overpaid consultant would suggest trying to salvage this mess.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Quavers posted:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/4/thread/ptu-feedback-increased-player-cap-to-60

:trustme: Greetings!

We are opening a special PTU with the player cap increased to 60 from 50. This is an experimental setup and the build is identical to live, just with 10 more players. Our goal is to collect performance and stability data while making additional cap adjustments, but any oddities that you see would be helpful to know about as well. Please reply with any issues, new performance bottlenecks, or negative impacts that are new to PTU and not currently on live. Please include screenshots and videos where appropriate.

It's important to note that this is merely a test, and is not representative of any definitive incoming changes.

Your help would be much appreciated!

-Baior
Lead Player Experience Analyst


drat, the backers were right. They are making huge leaps. I'll buy an Idris now and drown my anger about missed once-in-a-lifetime opportunities to buy pictures of spaceships in alcohol

ggangensis fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jan 8, 2020

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Popete posted:

They clearly haven't done anything to address player limit they just want to see what happens if they bump it up to 60. Hoping they some how incidentally fixed it so it doesn't immediately set the server on fire anymore.

Yeah, but changing the player-limit constant from 50 to 60 is probably the only thing their competence allows for these days. And even that is a stretch. :trustme: "Oops, the size of this array was hardcoded to 50 instead of using the player limit constant and now we have strange memory corruptions. Time for the bugsmashers!"

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Sarsapariller posted:

There are goons who play Star Citizen like Alexander D. Large but they don't post in here because they get poo poo on vigorously.

I tried to be the reasonable guy but I got over it because the game just sucks so bad to play, you can't help but hate it

It's a bad bad mess of a product that costs way too much and delivers next to nothing, it is 100% obvious that it will never be released, and no amount of us shitposting in this thread about how bad it is will change any of the remaining backers' minds or deprive Chris of one red cent of the millions he has made. The whole thing depresses me at this point.

Exactly this.
One might add: It doesn't only cost too much to play in a meaningful way. The amount of money burnt or funneled into Chris and his families retirement fund is staggering. A halfway decent producer with moral standards and a bit of self reflection and competence could have done amazing things with this kind of money.

But yeah, at this point it is just depressing and the ship has sailed a long time ago. Even if they waste half or even a full billion on an unfinished tech demo with SQ42 nowhere to be seen, the backers would be fine with that. Because, you know, Chris fights against the evil publishers. It's somewhat ironic that he has become worse than every publisher could ever be. He is a dictator with no one to answer to. Installing your family in high positions, getting rid of critical voices on the inside, adjusting your salary as you see fit and flying to Monaco with backer money? These are things the CEOs of EA, Bethesda and the such simply could not do, but for some weird reason the Chris 'Robin Hood' Roberts tale is still being told in backer circles and they really seem to believe he still gives a poo poo and fights the good fight out of his 5 million dollar mansion.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Antigravitas posted:

One recurring theme of failed kickstarter projects is getting too much money and scope creeping the project to death.

Imagine instead 50 indie projects getting a few millions each. That's enough to work for a few years but not enough to go full Ozymandias.

Good point.
Having a tight budget forces some moderation and might have saved the project (well, if they kept CR busy with other things at least). With that kind of money the door to enormous waste was opened, a thing some backers don't understand to this day. They really think more money means faster development and more features while the opposite is the case.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

colonelwest posted:

Thanks for all of these well thought out hot takes. It definitely opened my mind and I will now stop having a good time making fun of people spending thousands on pictures of spaceships for a failed crowdfunded space game.

drat, I liked your pre-edited post :(

No matter how much money you have, aka disposable income, wasting it on Star Citizen (and even call it a great deal) is just that: Waste.
What a lot of Citizens don't seem to understand is that people that aren't a rear admiral (or whatever pseudo-military rank in money wasting CR came up with), aren't because they are poor but because they know a bad deal when they see one. It's the same reason my boss drives a Mazda instead of a Porsche. Wasting money to show off wealth is pretty stupid, but coming to reddit, posting a certificate which says "I've burnt 15k dollars" and being proud of it is even more special.

In the end, the sentence "a fool and his money are soon parted" holds true... be it the blues lawyer buying a 8000 dollar Gibson guitar to put it on the wall, the daughter of $richman buying 3000 dollar shoes or space dads spending 35k (which I hope are really disposable for them...) on Star Citizen. But I`am honest here, what pisses me off is that Chris is still going strong after 8 years of lying, fraud, nepotism and other shady stuff we don't even know about yet. I have a hard time believing that people still giving significant amounts of money to this hack while all he has to show for is this buggy tech demo and a 5 million dollar mansion. But then, a look into the Gamestar forum where the newest ship sale is hyped up reminds me that, indeed, there are.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

sunaurus posted:

I can't get over all the people from the latest p2w reddit thread (there were several) who wrote poo poo like this:


I just don't understand how somebody can think that this even comes close to making any sense.

Do these people think that the difference between lower and higher performance cars is just some software flag? That Ford just spends the exact same amount of money on building all their cars, and then just prices them according to the "stats" that get programmed in to the cars?
Or is it the opposite - do they think that creating ships with better stats is somehow more expensive for CIG?

I need to know what is going on in their brains

What I find more interesting is that I can buy a gal.5.0L Coyote V-8: 460hp for the price of the new Legatus Pack and getting a real car for that money.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Nah, not fidelitous enough. Have you seen the blocky spaceships? Also, I haven't paid a few thousand bucks for assets in this game, so I`am not really emotionally invested in it.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Agony Aunt posted:

Not sure if you are joking or just not aware, she is in the game as "Pusher"... probably like a drug pusher, but instead pushes JPGs.

What game?

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Hav posted:

Star Squadron 54.

Ah, the one that exists mainly in Chris' head and as a loose collection of art assets and useless mocap data

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Hav posted:

It is a vision, yes. They laughed at Tesla when he teleported that Magician, they laughed at Edison when he electrocuted elephants, and they laughed at Chris Roberts.

drat, I've just read up on poor Topsy, though stuff. I just hope it does not occur to Chris to motion capture an elephant.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

G0RF posted:

Lol at what the latest “Inside Star Citizen” documented...

This entire segment is one where the subtext drowns out the text. We see Chris (finally!), and what’s he been up to in this time of missed deadlines, worrying roadmaps, and heightening pressures?

He’s doing just what he think he’d be doing— micromanaging fashion concepts for denizens of an upcoming moon. The maestro of micromanagement at work.





Just listen to Lando, laying the groundwork for upcoming bad news. The whole thing is just one big blinking warning light.

Finally, an Inside Star Citizen that tells us what’s really going on lately!

:gary:

I mean, yeah, I get that bullshit meetings are part of business culture and important for people that don't have any tangible skills despite of talking.
Everyone and his dog has an opinion on colors, or clothing for that matter. It doesn't take any skill to say "This jacket should have green stripes", even my grandma could. So this is perfectly up Chris` alley I guess.

Just imagine the new Boeing CEO has a meeting with his underlings, discussing the color of the tailplane rudder in great detail while the plane is grounded and widely considered a deathtrap. This is the vibe I get from those pictures.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Jonny Shiloh posted:

This whole thing with the vanishing of Sandi, the diminishing of Chris and previously, the banishing of Ben, is weird. Can't wait to see what happens in Season 8.

Please please please don't let it be "OMG IT WAS ALL A DREAM LOLZ!!!"

My bet is that Sandi is just no longer in the mood for SC. She carried enough money away and never liked geeky space-neckbeards to begin with. She now lives in a 5 million dollar mansion with enough money for the rest of her live. So why bother anymore?

Chris is obviously in over his head. He is fleeing into designing clothes for some moon inhabitants. What he should do instead is having a long, long talk with his engineering team (if CIG still has something like this). In this talk, Chris should say nothing but listen. And listen carefully. After that, they should come up with a clear idea of what can be salvaged, and if that means that the PU needs to die, so be it. With his funding model, this won't happen, though, so he sticks to superficial poo poo like moon clothing.

And Ben has written some lore that was handed out at CitCon, so he is probably happy right now, sitting in his room playing Wing Commander for the 636th time.

ggangensis fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Jan 31, 2020

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Inacio posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDIK644y6bg

Doesn't look as polished as Starbase, but it's yet another large scale space game that has actual gameplay systems AND can have more than 3 players per server.

Yeah, but can you buy a luxury yacht from the Origin Jumpworks GmbH that shows off your wealth? No? Well then.

Also, can I
- buy land?
- broadcast space news?
- witness realistic egg physics?
- play a battlefield-esque game mode?
- mix drinks?
- achieve a rank of wing commander by spending 10.000 dollars?
- have fleet battles with 10.000 players?
- play a AAAA single player experience?
- mod the multiplayer experience?
- live without subscriptions?
- have no pay to win?

*
pre:
Real quick, Star Citizen is:

    A rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person.
    Single Player – Offline or Online(Drop in / Drop out co-op play)
    Persistent Universe (hosted by US)
    Mod-able multiplayer (hosted by YOU)
    No Subscriptions
    No Pay to Win
It doesn't matter how well made, technically impressive or even just how much fun a game is. As it is with dreams and sunk cost fallacy, there's nothing to beat it.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Truga posted:

i don't really doubt chris actually did program wc1, back then a bit of game coding knowledge and some pixel art was all it took to make a basic game, and wc1 was not actually 3d with models and poo poo like elite/xwing etc. at 21 any nerd with a few weeks of time can probably do that, and then it's just a question of getting some artists to make sprites and pictures that'll actually sell.

hell, pixel art indie games still sell in that way today. indie isn't good enough for the spacesim genious christ motherfucking roberts tho, gotta do tripple AAA

I doubt it.
The groundwork for the engine was done by Ken Demarest. Exact info is hard to come by, but due to his work on BioForge I suspect he has a strong graphics programming background and that these parts of Wing Commander were written by him. I don't doubt Chris knew a thing or two about programming 8 bit home computers, but when it came to the much more complex i386 architecture he was clearly out of his league and just "directed" and "produced". Just look at the video where he sits in front of Visual Studio. I doubt this guy has touched a computer keyboard since the mid-90s.

Also, I think that WC1, as clunky as it might look from today`s perspective, was quite an achievement. X-Wing came ~2.5 years after Wing Commander, so Wing Commander 3 might be a better comparison since this is the game people remember CR mostly for. Ironically, he had almost nothing to do with the actual gameplay there and mostly directed the cinematics. Objectively, I think Tie Fighter at the time was the superior space sim, but it did not have Full Motion Video. So with WC3 a decent space sim and a decent movie met, which in times of mediocre or just plain bad FMV-games was big deal.
This model would have helped star citizen, also. Confine CR to his motion capture adventures and keep him strictly out of development and let this handle by competent people. But this ship has sailed I guess, so here we are.

ggangensis fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jan 31, 2020

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Rotten Red Rod posted:

To give an outside perspective, I was never into flight or space sim games as a kid, and even I heard a lot about how good the X-Wing games were, particularly Tie Fighter. I think I might have heard the name Wing Commander a few times, but all I knew about it was that it was that game with the weird cat guys.

Yeah, I've sunk some serious hours into Tie Fighter CD as a child. Playing for the empire was awesome, the plot in general was awesome and the missions were really challenging, atmospheric and well thought out.
The flying itself felt really fluid and the energy management gave some strategic depth. I've played Tie Fighter before Wing Commander, though for the exact same reasons as you.

Nonetheless, I've wanted to try out Wing Commander 3 because my younger self thought that full motion video was cool (well, and it was for a while) and something with that pseudo-militaristic style and the whole "lone carrier vs. the cat people" resonated with me. I've actually enjoyed most of the story, but after playing that many hours Tie Fighter I was a bit bummed how simplistic and wooden the actual gameplay felt. I mean, yeah, they've had texture mapping, but it just did not feel as fluid and fast-paced as Tie Fighter did. The mission design also felt a lot more simple than the ones from Tie Fighter where chasing some shuttle with max power to throttle and just enough energy for the lasers to maintain charge, while some A-Wings are approaching, underlined with that iMuse music, was pretty awesome.

So in the end I think WC3 was a decent FMV-title with solid gameplay, but certainly nothing to give a man 250 million dollars to re-heat that formula.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

DapperDon posted:

There is in fact much to be gained from it. It puts a factual display of the type of person that is sitting there actively lying to people and profiting from it. No amount of efforposting or blog stating all of the technical bullshit is going to do a single thing to put a pause in their step. You should know, you and Derek have been doing it for years to no avail. But the moment Forbes shows up with the receipts and suddenly "POOF" Chris AND Sandy are gone. Now ask yourself why Forbes was successful and what exactly your approach does other than provide for good reading? I'm not knocking you G-Man but to say it's out of bounds and nobody should ever do it is just plain false.

True, and a bit of dirty laundry about the people who scammed ~250 million dollar out of some gullible nerds, well, it seems like a small price to pay for them.

Viscous Soda posted:

I don't know, my impression of Sandi is that she's addicted to idea becoming a Hollywood big shot actor. I can't picture her giving that up, even if she gets enough money to live the Hollywood lifestyle she's always wanted, it won't be enough. She want's the fame more than anything.

I would have agreed to that, but I suspect that after the Forbes article, her less than stellar acting credits and plain and simple her age, she realized that these Hollywood dreams are over. With this realization there is no incentive left to associate herself with CIG/SQ42 or that whole space-nerd-thingie she couldn't care less about in the first place.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:
Ok, which one of you guys wrote the WCIII plot summary on wikipedia?

quote:

The resulting explosion destroys Kilrah and wipes out nearly the entire Kilrathi armada assembled in orbit, but damages Blair's fighter as well; a surviving Kilrathi capital ship tractors him in. Morally devastated by the destruction of their home planet, the Kilrathi, commanded now by Thrakhath's retainer Melek nar Kiranka, surrender to Tolwyn. The surviving Kilrathi begin to colonize a new homeworld and now want to live in peace and harmony with humans while Blair and his romantic interest make plans to start their new lives together.

That sounds just hilarious the way it is put. You just committed genocide, killing billions, women and children included? No problem, the race you nearly wiped out now likes you and you can go on screwing your new space gf in peace. The End.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Popete posted:

Seriously these weekly road map updates are just amazing, self owning themselves for all to see.

Also wasn't there supposed to be some big ship releasing soon? Was it the Kraken or something?

One could think that. But it seems the enthusiasm is unbroken, at least with the paid shills in gaming forums.

Automated translation, but well, you get the point:

quote:

60 is okay now or :wahn:. Who wants another carrack? Should hurry up. Again a price increase when the Flight Ready is - should then be 575 Dollar Store or 684 Dollar incl. VAT.

I made some changes and got the Mega Exploration package. Another 100 Dollars I have to add in April when Token comes. At the moment I have 2 carracks and since the Aquila is waiting inside for the CCU to the Gemini, I have three Aquila in the hangar :ugly:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Packages/Exploration-Megapack-2948
Store costs 1350 and there's plenty inside. Do the math, it was worth it for me. Instead of the HH the Nautilus and for that a Gemini and a Nova is practically for free. Spar Commander ;) The 475 Dollars 600i in it on the Carrack are 25 Dollars and in 2-3 weeks is the again 100 Dollars more valuable :wahn:

The 2 carracks and the terrapin alone are worth the package. And then you have the DUR, 315p, Aquila, Dragonfly Black and Cyclone RN practically for free with SC, SQ42, 20k UEC and LTI.

Fresh from Gamestar forum. This dude is also pretty happy about the "megafunding" in January. This is really the most stupid poo poo I've read this year. I really hope for him he is paid by CIG for writing this, since really believing he is making the deal of this life is pretty worrying to be honest. People this dense, being able to operate a PC without supervisor doesn't sit too well with me.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Beet Wagon posted:



something, something, totally organic

e: lmaoing at the latest reply dates in the super-secret members only area



I don't know... this whole Org-thing in a pseudo-MMO with 50 player limit seems strange. Is there even anything in the game remotely related to Orgs or is that just a gimmick on the CIG website?

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Der Shovel posted:

Yeah this is one of the biggest tell-tale signs that these idiots genuinely don't understand game (or software) development.

As a personal anecdote, I've been crunching like crazy this past week to get our prototype ready for testing launch next Tuesday. Towards the end of the week I was coding for 11 hours straight, and the results of that crunch aren't good work! It's totally counterproductive, because you're not thinking straight at that point, and you'll be making mistakes, and coming up with stupid solutions that you'll have to redo the next day anyway. And this is not complicated code, it's very basic stuff but there's a lot of it to do*.

The idea that "game coder codes 16 hours a day" is a good thing is so loving stupid. It's a colossal sign of horrible project management and a pretty loving sure fire sign that the project is going to fail.

[*] and the guy who was coding the project before I got hired made some loving interesting decisions, which I'm now paying for.

Signed.
I can considered myself lucky (well, most of the time) working on safety relevant software (in the sense that if something goes really wrong, people will die), so we have crystal clear rules from "above" regarding working hours. If you sit 10 hours a day just once, prepare yourself for a not-so-funny-talk with your supervisor. If there is an accident due to faulty software and the following investigation would turn up crunching developers (which also means a failed project management), a lot of people would be in deep poo poo. You can see this kind of things currently happening with Boeing.

But well, it's video games we are talking about. At the end of the day they don't matter much and most of them will be forgotten after a year or so. I don't know if devs like Id or Rockstar really let the engine programmers crunch for longer periods of time or if experience shows that the results get worse and there is nothing to gain by doing that. I`am also not sure if the "hard" engine coding is still an issue a few months before release or if the open points are mainly scripting issues, missing artwork and the such with just minor engine bugs left.

I think these romanticizing pictures of a lone John Carmack, buried in a hotel room for 3 weeks straight in the mid-90s, fixing issues with the renderer in Quake are a relic of the past. Development of AAA-games just became too large of an endeavor with way too many people involved that such things are feasible today.

When it comes to CIG, well. Their investorsmoney-givers are mainly idiotslaymans without any rights or software development experience. So CIG paints a picture that caters to these people: The crunching, wizard-like programmer who gives his last making the dream come true*. That this is a sign of bad project management doesn't occur to these people because they simply don't know better.

*In the beginning, they framed CR to be this guy, but after that "Is Dennis around here?" cringefest I assume nobody still believes that. I`am pretty sure CR isn't even able to properly type on a keyboard.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

stingtwo posted:

Even from the general publics point of view, we actively hate that crunch time exists and will condemn companies that force it on employees when the word gets out even if it happens only towards the end of the projects release, times like the EA spouce letter come to mind. CIG not only does this kind of crunch time all the time whenever they want, with no sense of awareness are happy to say it with smiles, they are praised for it as if people want to work 18-20 hours a day to please the dorks.



All part of the narrative. It`s more important the backers believe they are hard at work, having actual results is secondary to that. And maybe the lower decks even are hard at work, with this kind of leadership it all goes to poo poo, though.

btw., the last of these "let's photograph a random employee"-twitter-posts Sandi liked to do is from Apr 10, 2019. What happened there? Has some employee told her to gently caress off with that stupid camera or he will shove it up her dumb face?

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

i watched an interesting video about crunch in the VFX industry recently. If anything, it appears to be even worse than for code monkeys.

* The company is usually paid a flat fee
* The producers go back and ask for changes however many times as they like, and its your problem if you go over your budget
* Since the company has no more money, the artists are expected to work unpaid overtime, repeatedly
* If you complain you get blacklisted as well as flat out removed from the credits.
* Because the companies are always chasing tax credits, the next job might be in Vancouver, or England, or whatever random place. So you go away from your family and friends for months at a time, living out of a hotel room or lovely rental.
* The VFX companies go bankrupt ALL THE TIME
* if you do a really good job all the credit usually goes to the director, producers, and actors.

Did not see that particular video, but one that dealt with the question why a lot of VFX in movies looks worse than a lot from, 10 or 15 years ago.
They're answer was that VFX became a sweatshop-industry over the years. The demand grew so quickly because everyone and his little brother now makes special effects heavy films. If you look at marvel shovelware movies, it is sometimes hard to tell if these are from a videogame or actual movies. Because of the high demand, exactly what you state happens: Unpaid overtime, rushed productions while operating on a dime.

I think there is just one sane way to go with it: Never, ever work for the entertainment industry.
It is no secret that the gaming industry doesn't pay well (except you are one of the gifted few in a sea of thousands. Looking at you, Tiago) and the working conditions are often abysmal. The main problem here is that being a "game coder" sounds pretty cool and it's a dream of a lot of young people, mine included a few years back. So what happens when a lot of people want the job and the bulk of applicants is straight from university? Right, it dumps the wages and allows a culture of crunch time. Young people often don't know their rights or just lack the foresight that working yourself into burnout is nothing you will hear even a single "thank you" for.
I think this is pretty singular when it comes to software development. Sure, writing backend-stuff for a bank might be boring, but a at least it pays well and you are home by 6.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Agony Aunt posted:

And yeah, my last company had strong words to say about people doing crunch for extended periods. It means the project manager wasn't doing their job right and it led to poor results.

This.
In the end its a question of company culture, I guess. We still have this time tracking system in place where you sign in when you enter office and sign out when you leave. If you are passing the time threshold the next 2 higher ups receive an automated E-Mail, which would be my supervisor and well, his supervisor. Sure, it's a matter of saying "oops, yeah, I worked on that other thing and forgot time, won't happen again", but well... it's pretty embarrassing and I just don't want to be in that situation.
As I've started working there I thought of this as a bit silly, but it works pretty well and nobody talks about it anymore or has issues with it. The overtime hours are in normal ranges, the sickness figures are low, so I guess it does its job.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Megalobster posted:

The video game industry has such a deeply internalized culture of subservience that even in Germany, Crytek employees didn't go to court and kept working for months without pay.

I remember reading about this.
This is basically the gaming industry in a nutshell. Enthusiastic, young people fleeced until burnout. It doesn't help that engine coding itself is complicated, I think most engine coders could easily work in other industries with better pay and a healthier work environment. But for some reason, they don't. True idealism, who knows.

For artists it might be another thing. Knew someone who tried to get a footing as a game artist, but the market is incredibly over-saturated and after a series of unpaid 6-month internships she said gently caress it and is now doing something else. Good riddance.

At least when it comes to this, CIG could really be a normal studio. Abysmal pay and working conditions, yes, but they seem to lack the "rockstar" seniors and are stuck with Chris as a poor mans substitute. drat.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Scruffpuff posted:

I know this might wind up being a controversial opinion, but it matches my experience that developers who truly enjoy coding will enjoy the satisfaction that comes with writing efficient, elegant, optimized code whether it's in a video game or some unknown backend credit card service. Even if they're video game fans. "The dream" of working on video games is something of an illusion, unless your passion exceed normal safety levels. A satisfaction of a job well done writing good code for a small company and getting recognized and appreciated for your work is far better than working endless crunch so nerds can bitch about the end result on Youtube.

I wholeheartedly agree with that.
To quote Chris here, what is game coding anyway? Writing some serializer that happens to live as part of a game engine isn't necessarily more interesting than writing a serializer that sits in some business application. However, finding an elegant solution to a tricky problem is what counts. As part of some formal regulations, our product ships only with pretty basic compiler optimizations, so writing efficient code is really a must here without sacrificing too much readability. This is quite challenging and a pretty fun part of the job, even if my domain is so far apart from gaming as it could possibly be.

If a poor soul that thinks about entering the gaming industry as a software dev reads this: Don't, there are other domains with interesting problems where you aren't treated as a modern slave. Also, the programmers there, in general, aren't worse than your "engine gods", despite the picture some devs try to paint.

Bofast posted:

I wouldn't be surprised if the whole crunch culture has driven a lot of the best engine programmers out of the video game industry and thus made the overall quality of code drop a bit.

Considering the state most modern AAA titles ship in, this is probably true.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

K8.0 posted:

I suspect the top talent is either working on the engines themselves (and thus having a more enjoyable job where they're focused on developing and refining technology rather than trying to cobble together a broken game to some incompetent designer's brainless specification) or they're working at smaller studios and getting ownership shares.

I see what you did there.



Good thing he is now focusing on the important stuff like moon clothing

ggangensis fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Feb 2, 2020

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Agony Aunt posted:

It makes you think maybe CR, which his experience from decades ago, also thought this, and thought, i can make it work, and then fell into the same trap as many other game dev shops, with the additional hinderance of his own massive ego and demands for fidelity. He thinks if he pushes harder and harder he will get better results... and then can't undertstand it why it all turns to poo poo. And this is why he is spending 16 hours a day rewriting the physics engine.

And all of this while also designing moon clothes. This man really is a genius.

btw., is there some list of most of the lies told by Sandi, Ben and co. about Chris programming? I remember Sandi saying poo poo like "he coded until early in the morning for that demo" or something along those lines. Ben said something similar. Also, when did they drop the narrative that Chris is doing actual coding on the project?
I'm really itching to build a simple fact vs. fiction website about this project, there are too many hilarious tidbits that got lost because of the sheer amount.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Quavers posted:

:viggo: Are you bored of Facebook, Twitter etc? Want to connect with other people and chat about the inevitable consequences of piracy, lust on your mind, and the worst kinds of electricity?

Well now there is a social network for you: Star Citizen Social! :toot:



:sad:

Mhm... it doesn't ask for my credit card number on the front page. Are you sure this is legit?


Colostomy Bag posted:

Sadly probably not. I'm sure it is all out there but when tackling it all one gets burnout. Many here (bless their souls) have tried. Even our ex-Warlord seems to be done mostly documenting the mess. And even then once that tomb of info ever gets published would need an abridged edition. Otherwise it would make "War and Peace" look like a short story.


Agony Aunt posted:

Not so much as a list, just an archive :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=user?RobertsSpaceInd

The next best thing is Bootcha's videos.

The one about Chris staying up till all hours rewriting the physics engine i think came from last year's whale dinner.

That's a pity.... the thing is, the narrative changes so often so fast, having some snapshots in time where one could say "2018 - Chris up all day and night rewriting the physics engine" or "2019 - Chris redesigning moon clothes" would be nice. It came to my mind since one of the biggest whales (and possibly paid shill or idiot of biblical proportions) in the Gamestar forum literally wrote a few days before CitCon they will "for sure" show something related to SQ42. Right after that, the narrative changed: They will show it on the holiday stream you dumb gently caress, how could you not know this? Then they showed this laughable trailer and everything is fine again, just as promised by Chris.
I find this kind of open denial and twisting the narrative irritating as well as fascinating, but since there is no real chronicle of all the bullshit told by Chris and CIG, everything blends together in hypnotic trances where often I, myself, don't know what is true anymore. Has Chris rewritten the physics engine? Has Ben played through SQ42 and it's the best game ever? Are egg-physics really the way to go? Is there a secret dev build? Do I want to play Theatres of War? I feel like Colonel Kurtz at times, driven to insanity by a crowdfunded space guru, a code-whisperer wearing black sweaters and clown shoes.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Bubbacub posted:

Because the new mode is a reskin for Crysis Wars and they can pretend like they're actually doing something

I can imagine the meeting where the senior software architect (24yrs old) bursts into the room, boasting about how he found the Crysis Wars source folder in their repo. "We reskin it and the backers will be extatic!"

Also chances are that when they are building on top of Crysis Wars in a state without CIG hacks sprinkled all over the place it might even work halfway decent.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Beexoffel posted:

At the risk of incurring a probation, I would like to call attention to the anime series 'Keep your hands of Eizouken!'. It is an anime about making anime. And episodes 4 and 5 address exactly the kind of troubles of dreaming versus actually making something. Of wanting to do every scene hand drawn versus 'trickery' and software to fill in the gaps. Of having not to worry about money and time versus having a budget and a plan.
Almost as if they watched Chris, inverted how he acts, and came up with the producer character for the series that guides the artists to achieve their goals.

In short: when I watch something about people achieving goals, I think of how they are not like CIG.

That`s the fascinating thing about Chris.
He has an infinite amount of money and literally tries to build a plane made of stone. Has it been done before? No. Why? Because it's a stupid idea.
But with sheer brute force and obscene amounts of money he was able to build one that`s even able to fly for a few hundred meters before crashing down. Does it change the fact that the whole endeavor is a huge waste of money and energy? No.
That also plays into the fact that Citizens like to compare SC with the largest and most successful games of all times like GTA V, CoD or the Witcher. It's like comparing Chris' stone plane to ones that are built from lightweight alloys by sane engineers.
They should start comparing it to the largest failures: Duke Nukem Forever (rumored "tens of millions"), APB ("in excess of 100 million") Shen Mue (70 million), Daikatana (30 million), and they would realize that even the most high profile failures in gaming history combined haven't burned through that much money with as little to show for as Chris has.

So kudos to studios who can stay on a budget and deliver good or even fantastic games. Sames goes for movies or even music (looking at you, Axl). Chris obviously has neither the right personality nor the competence to achieve such things, and I predict that it will take the backers a few years more to realize that, if ever.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Ah, an artsy variation of one of the many "we-treat-water-as-space"-related bugs. But the assets look really nice I have to say

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Megalobster posted:

https://twitter.com/JamesSACorey/status/1224981231567351813

Jmes S.A. Corey confirmed as a Derek Smart FUDSTER!

Also
Star Citizen: Please don't bin it for this Alpha quirk.

Ah, excellent, this is the kind of news coverage CIG deserves. "Chris Roberts is not just stealing your money but also your privacy!". After all these paid shill articles from useless gaming outlets, I feel that these are the little things that make a difference in public perception.

Also, Chris can consider himself lucky that James did not actually came into contact with the "gameplay" and wrote some tweets about the tedious time wasting, cash-grabbing "mechanics" shining through when not falling through the floor.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

Dementropy posted:

:reddit: :


- "Considering that account (James SA Corey is two people) has publicly reached out to CIG over twitter in the past, & knows they have a huge following that crosses over both universes, I consider this a dick move."

- "Seems like someone got worked up about a setting being ticked as on by default in an alpha.

It makes me wonder what do they think is being gathered, the camera is only looking for facial features so it can replicate them on a in game model it ain't sending video feeds to CIG.

Definitely some irrational paranoia, I say as someone medically diagnosed as Paranoid."

- "He was probably sitting there half naked and/or had a rail of cocaine in view of the camera. lol I'd be indignant too."

- "How long before we see a "journalist" article about this?"


Citizens seem untypically friendly and moderate here, but their characteristic smugness shines through nonetheless.
For starters, why is this FoIP thing on by default? This is a stupid decision in times where even the most technically inexperienced users cover up their laptop cameras. It was just a question of time someone takes offense here.
Then, why Citizens consider calling CIG out on this a "dick move", while filming the user without permission is fine? It doesn't matter what kind of image data is captured, data that is there will be used and misused, so don't collect it without permission in the first place.

ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

DapperDon posted:

Nothing says good PR like harassing a man that has his own spotlight in the SCI FI community to shine some of it on the insane Citizen defense force.

:gary:

Those citizens are a crazy bunch, aren't they? I mean, seriously, is it that hard to acknowledge that using the webcam to film the user without consent is a bad idea? But yeah, it probably is when you're in for a few thousand bucks and sunk cost fallacy is kicking.

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ggangensis
Aug 24, 2018

:10bux:

AbstractNapper posted:

The "report" is full of marketing talk, exaggerated claims, vague progress description, nonsensical (buzz?) words (like yeah "voxelizing"), even more vague mention on work remaining, and nothing at all hinting at any upcoming "release" or transition to beta. The words "beta" or "release" don't even appear in it.

How can anyone lap this trash up and believe they've come out anything but more stupid after reading it is beyond me.

This is a project years into a development, and mere months before the supposed ETA for a beta for the company's first ever commercial (to be) title, after about three or four other missed ETAs in the course of about 6 years.

At least they apparently had the time to implement a Vulkan renderer. Why have they done this? I don't know neither :shrug:

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