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loving love Fiona Apple posted:Having an extra Transfer Pak and a copy of Red and Silver made playing through Stadium so much more enjoyable. it's wrong 
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Mar 12, 2021 13:28
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Mar 12, 2021 16:26
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Mar 12, 2021 18:26
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Pokemon Center 6: The Pokemon Are Entirely Different Types    When I was first writing up my initial plans for the LP, I had considered leaving my starter Pokemon up to thread vote, as well as which version to use between Red, Blue, or Yellow. In the end, I decided that I would need every edge I could get on a blind challenge of this magnitude, but what if I hadn't? What if I had opened the options up, and the thread had voted for something else? How would the Let's Play have changed? What kinds of different Pokemon would I have used? While this is only theory, and my early theories have proven wrong on many occasions, I did have at least some rough plans. Now that the Castle is complete, it seems as good a time as any to go over the differences. Red Version Bulbasaur   Without Ninetales, we would have needed to use Arcanine as our Fire-type. Or, more likely, I'd just pass up on Fire entirely for the majority of the game, filling that gap with Flying and Fighting Pokemon instead, probably BRDBRDBRD and the Red-exclusive Primeape. As cool of a Pokemon as Arcanine is, it's not cool enough to be worth dealing with Ember, Rapidash isn't much better, and Magmar is exclusive to Blue. Aside from issues with finding a solid Fire-type, TUBE would remain TUBE, and keep on keeping on until RAVESTAR took over. Charmander  Oh, this one would have sucked. In fact, I can fairly confidently say that it would've been the worst possible combination of version and starter. Brock in particular would have been an absolute nightmare, with nothing that could even start to approach dealing with the plethora of Rock-type Pokemon. Past that, while Vileplume isn't the worst Grass-type in the world, both Gloom and Charmeleon would need to wait until Koga before learning a truly worthwhile STAB attack and evolving (though I could, at least, use the same 'catch two, evolve one' trick with Vileplume that I did with Ninetales.) In the back half, I'd be using Exeggutor as my Grass-type of choice from the first opportunity, even without Psychic, and I would very likely be relying on a Nidoqueen as a general-purpose Pokemon, with a high-value TM moveset of Body Slam, Earthquake, Ice Beam, and Surf. Squirtle While definitely easier than the Charmander start, this Brock would not be particularly fun, either, as Squirtle would be stuck with the horrendously bad Bubble until Level 15. I also wouldn't feel right about using Gyarados in this run, which would mean no TUBE, as well as no truly excellent Fire or Grass types. Nidoqueen's flexibility in learnset would be invaluable here as well, likely working alongside TONIC, BRDBRDBRD, and MAMBO FRED to carry us through, as no TUBE would also mean no RAVESTAR. Exeggutor would again be joining ASAP, but would be getting Psychic this time, for lack of meaningful competition, making it a core pillar of our late-game team. Other     Almost from the beginning, we run into some problems. With Arbok instead of Sandslash, Vermillion City Gym would have been even more difficult, our only accessible Ground type being the frail Diglett. At least Arbok's Glare and Wrap might have helped cheese Surfing Raichu. Aside from that, no Meowth/Persian would mean no Pay Day until I had Surf to grab the TM on Route 12, and while finances wouldn't have been tight enough to restrict us from the Celadon Store, not having infinite cash would've made it much, much more difficult to get the Game Corner TMs, and the piles of vitamins needed to keep up with the midgame. Electabuzz still would've been outclassed (it shows up far too late to provide any kind of meaningful competition), and Scyther... well, it might've made for an interesting gimmick? Blue Version Bulbasaur  We know how this one goes. BORT, RUM, and TUBE make for an extremely solid Grass/Fire/Water core, with no real need to replace any of them. (Even RAVESTAR was more for variety than necessity.) Charmander  The early game here is no easier than it is in Red, with Brock again being an incredibly difficult wall to climb. However, from Cerulean and beyond, it becomes markedly easier than its counterpart. While Vileplume is alright, Victreebel is excellent, being strong on both sides of the spectrum, as well as decently fast, and with a much better offensive movepool. Charizard still takes a while to come into his own, but there are other teammates ready to pick up the slack until then. Having either Weepinbell or a slightly sequence-breaking Victreebel even makes Lt. Surge easier, as it's a bulky Pokemon that resists both Thunder and Surf, and can put Raichu to sleep before wearing it down with Wrap. Squirtle Brock is still a pain in the rear end, and Blastoise is still otherwise serviceable but unexciting, but having Ninetales and Victreebel makes the midgame much simpler. The lack of TUBE and RAVESTAR is disappointing, but without a need for Exeggutor as a Grass-type, Psychic probably ends up going to Jynx, who then becomes a key party member from the moment we get Surf and trade a Poliwhirl for it. Truly the darkest timeline. Other     Sandslash was unexpectedly useful, Meowth's Pay Day was very expectedly useful, Pinsir was a complete non-starter, and Magmar might have been useful in a world where it didn't share a game with Ninetales. Yellow Version Pikachu  This is arguably the easiest starter choice, and inarguably the most anticlimactic one. Because the only Pikachu you can get in Yellow refuses to evolve into Raichu, I would need to either dump it off almost immediately (and permanently) for Jolteon, cheat to evolve it anyways, or carry a starter who is completely dead weight through the entire game. And while having one of the three standard starters makes for interesting decisions, having all three actually leads to a lack of them, as they become the obvious choices for three core team members. (True, I could dump Blastoise for something else and just use Venusaur and Charizard, but that just feels wrong somehow.) That's four Pokemon effectively locked in, regardless of the Pikachu/Jolteon choice, with only two slots of wiggle room for variety. Other Brock is a complicated matchup in Yellow. No Grass or Water Pokemon means no good special attacker, and his strongest Pokemon in Yellow is only Level 12 instead of 14, which means no Hyper Fang on DOG. On the other hand, we do get Mankey with Low Kick, and Nidoran gets Double Kick about 40 levels earlier, so who knows. I'd guess it'd be easier than with Charmander, but not by much. Every other Leader after Misty actually has a higher max level, which means the rest of the game gets even easier as we go. Beyond that, Yellow has a bizarre, eclectic, and annoying list of unavailable Pokemon, including Meowth, which again means money problems, and Jynx. With every decent dual-type Psychic thus unavailable, Psychic would have to go to something that can use it as a solid coverage move, probably either Clefable or Haunter, depending on whether I want another solid generalist or a powerful special sweeper. Final Notes In the end, I chose Blue with Bulbasaur not just because it made for the easiest Brock (although it absolutely did), but also because I felt like it would provide the best mix of interesting and useful Pokemon in a variety of types. Also Pay Day. gently caress, would this have been annoying without Pay Day. So, I guess that's the moral of the story. The MVPs of the Castle Climb were BORT and an anonymous Meowth. Go figure. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Mar 13, 2021 |
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Mar 13, 2021 03:13
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I forget, if you bring over a yellow Pikachu to stadium, does it also get the anime cry?
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Mar 18, 2021 01:21
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rannum posted:I forget, if you bring over a yellow Pikachu to stadium, does it also get the anime cry? Yes.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:31
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rannum posted:I forget, if you bring over a yellow Pikachu to stadium, does it also get the anime cry?
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Mar 18, 2021 03:27
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Isn't there a way to tesch Pikachu surf as well? I also remember a Surfing Pikachu mini game but I don't remember how to access that.
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Mar 18, 2021 04:00
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loving love Fiona Apple posted:Isn't there a way to tesch Pikachu surf as well? I also remember a Surfing Pikachu mini game but I don't remember how to access that. You get Surf Pikachu through stadium itself, or through very specific, very old give aways that Which makes the surfing pikachu minigame the first event-exclusive activation in the series, i suppose! ...I remember being very annoyed by this as a kid, neither me or my dad could get the dang Surfing pikachu...
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Mar 18, 2021 04:07
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Unfortunately, Pikachu does not learn Thunderbolt naturally until Yellow, and we've already used both our Thunderbolt and our Thunder TMs. So unless I break several rules at once, even Surfing Pikachu would just be a gimmick.
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Mar 18, 2021 05:26
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How does Pikachu not learn thunderbolt? 
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Mar 18, 2021 05:29
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loving love Fiona Apple posted:How does Pikachu not learn thunderbolt? Nothing learned Thunderbolt naturally in Gen I, pre-Yellow. None of the gym TMs were learned naturally by any Pokemon in Red/Blue (there may have been one or two exceptions I'm forgetting). This was something of a tradition, where few, if any, of the moves used for gym TMs would be available by level-up at least up through gen III (I didn't really keep track after that).
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Mar 18, 2021 05:32
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For my Yellow LP, to show off the surfing minigame, I simply In the Japan-only Pokémon Stadium, if the player clears the Master Ball division of the L1-30 Division with a Pikachu in his or her party, the Pikachu can learn Surf. In the non-Japanese versions of Pokémon Stadium, if the player clears the Master Ball division of the Round 2 Prime Cup with all Pokémon selected directly from a Game Pak, not saving the game during the challenge (continues are permitted), and ensures Pikachu participates in the final battle (the Pikachu can come from any Generation I game), they will be able to teach that Pikachu Surf. Then I transferred it back.
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Mar 18, 2021 05:36
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EclecticTastes posted:Nothing learned Thunderbolt naturally in Gen I, pre-Yellow. None of the gym TMs were learned naturally by any Pokemon in Red/Blue (there may have been one or two exceptions I'm forgetting). This was something of a tradition, where few, if any, of the moves used for gym TMs would be available by level-up at least up through gen III (I didn't really keep track after that). I'm pretty sure its still a rule for any new TM given by a Gym Leader. Looking at Bulbapedia it looks like the rule of new to that Gen=exclusive to Gym Leader TM holds. Obviously doesn't apply to Thunderbolt going back to being a gym TM in Gen VI etc
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Mar 18, 2021 05:42
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Crosspeice posted:For my Yellow LP, to show off the surfing minigame, I simply In the Japan-only Pokémon Stadium, if the player clears the Master Ball division of the L1-30 Division with a Pikachu in his or her party, the Pikachu can learn Surf. In the non-Japanese versions of Pokémon Stadium, if the player clears the Master Ball division of the Round 2 Prime Cup with all Pokémon selected directly from a Game Pak, not saving the game during the challenge (continues are permitted), and ensures Pikachu participates in the final battle (the Pikachu can come from any Generation I game), they will be able to teach that Pikachu Surf. Then I transferred it back.
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Mar 18, 2021 06:08
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Zore posted:I'm pretty sure its still a rule for any new TM given by a Gym Leader. Looking at Bulbapedia it looks like the rule of new to that Gen=exclusive to Gym Leader TM holds. In Gen 2, this is true for everything except Giga Drain, which is also the only Gym Leader TM from Kanto you get so arguably doesn't count. But in Gen 3, all but one Gym Leader TM has something that learns it by level up, though usually only 1-3 evolutionary lines. This seems to be mostly the case going forward (5/8 in Gen 4, 7/8 in Gen 5) until Gen 6, which has only 1 of 3 new TMs that are learnable by level up. Then Gen 7 doesn't have Gym Leader TMs and Gen 8's only new TM is learnable. So basically, there is no real rule, it's just sort of whatever Game Freak feels like at the time.
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Mar 18, 2021 06:22
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WrightOfWay posted:In Gen 2, this is true for everything except Giga Drain, which is also the only Gym Leader TM from Kanto you get so arguably doesn't count. But in Gen 3, all but one Gym Leader TM has something that learns it by level up, though usually only 1-3 evolutionary lines. This seems to be mostly the case going forward (5/8 in Gen 4, 7/8 in Gen 5) until Gen 6, which has only 1 of 3 new TMs that are learnable by level up. Then Gen 7 doesn't have Gym Leader TMs and Gen 8's only new TM is learnable. The idea behind doing it for the first couple generations is that Pokemon gyms were loosely modeled on the concept of martial arts dojos (not counting the ones that literally are martial arts dojos), with the TMs being their "secret technique". However, I feel like after Gen II, Game Freak figured out that gating off staple moves like that, behind one-off consumables, was not a great experience for the player. If anything, it would make more sense to do it now, since TMs are reusable, but at this point Game Freak is actually trying to trim down the list of moves, rather than continuing to expand it.
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Mar 18, 2021 06:34
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Crosspeice posted:In the non-Japanese versions of Pokémon Stadium, if the player clears the Master Ball division of the Round 2 Prime Cup with all Pokémon selected directly from a Game Pak, not saving the game during the challenge (continues are permitted), and ensures Pikachu participates in the final battle (the Pikachu can come from any Generation I game), they will be able to teach that Pikachu Surf. Then I transferred it back. Oh my god gently caress that. It's hard enough to beat the Prime Cup but with a loving Pikachu?
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Mar 18, 2021 12:25
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As someone who's never played Pokemon Stadium, how good/bad are the rental Pokemon? It was sort of gone over in the first and second gym updates (middling stats but a weird mix of 'bad' and 'really good' skills), and Brock was a giant wall because of how the challenge was set up (pokemon are boosted to level 50 but don't have the additional stats from EV experience), but how does the final team that rolled over Fasslp compare to the rentals, at least stat-wise?
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Mar 18, 2021 13:39
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S.D. posted:As someone who's never played Pokemon Stadium, how good/bad are the rental Pokemon? It was sort of gone over in the first and second gym updates (middling stats but a weird mix of 'bad' and 'really good' skills), and Brock was a giant wall because of how the challenge was set up (pokemon are boosted to level 50 but don't have the additional stats from EV experience), but how does the final team that rolled over Fasslp compare to the rentals, at least stat-wise? Compare these two from the final team:  To their rental counterparts:   Weaker statwise across the board (60 less Special on each!), and significantly worse moves. Why the gently caress is Hypno rolling Counter?
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Mar 18, 2021 14:05
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S.D. posted:As someone who's never played Pokemon Stadium, how good/bad are the rental Pokemon? It was sort of gone over in the first and second gym updates (middling stats but a weird mix of 'bad' and 'really good' skills), and Brock was a giant wall because of how the challenge was set up (pokemon are boosted to level 50 but don't have the additional stats from EV experience), but how does the final team that rolled over Fasslp compare to the rentals, at least stat-wise? BisbyWorl posted:Weaker statwise across the board (60 less Special on each!), and significantly worse moves.
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Mar 18, 2021 14:18
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MagusofStars posted:With regards to moves, IIRC there was some weird quirk where evolved Pokemon actually have weaker moves than their lower-tier versions. Like, a rental Abra would have Psychic, but a rental Alakazam has Confusion instead. They did that to balance the pokemon I think? Because if the best Pokemon had the best moves there'd be no reason to use the weaker pokemon I guess. It's dumb and makes playing with rentals no fun. fucking love Fiona Apple fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 14:22
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BisbyWorl posted:
The less stats are because the rentals are 15 levels lower. I'm not sure how bad the stat differences are though. Probably only IVs?
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Mar 18, 2021 15:50
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The rentals probably have no stat exp. Even if they do it's almost certainly much less than the LP pokemon.
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Mar 18, 2021 16:02
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At least the rentals in Stadium 1 are slightly usable. The ones in Stadium 2 are..... less so.
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Mar 18, 2021 16:08
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To give a point of reference on Stadium 2 rentals: Fully evolved poke at level 50 running Tackle and Growl.
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Mar 18, 2021 16:17
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Eeepies posted:The less stats are because the rentals are 15 levels lower. I'm not sure how bad the stat differences are though. Probably only IVs? Here's a Tauros PMush used. It was lower than 50 ( Ithink around 40?) and then cheated up to 50  And here's a rental Tauros HP: 158 Attack: 129 Defense: 124 Speed: 138 Special: 98 and then of course... Strength Bide Fire Blast Tail Whip
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Mar 18, 2021 16:20
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Basically if you don't have a copy of one of the Gameboy games and a Transfer Pak, Pokemon stadium is mediocre and tedious unless you really like the mini games. If you do have those things then the game is actually incredibly fun to play.
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Mar 18, 2021 16:27
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loving love Fiona Apple posted:Basically if you don't have a copy of one of the Gameboy games and a Transfer Pak, Pokemon stadium is mediocre and tedious unless you really like the mini games. In fairness, the minigames are really, really good.
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Mar 18, 2021 16:52
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My sister and I somehow got days worth of fun running Rental Golem Metronome Only battles against each other in Free Battle so they were good for something  .
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Mar 18, 2021 17:35
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S.D. posted:As someone who's never played Pokemon Stadium, how good/bad are the rental Pokemon? It was sort of gone over in the first and second gym updates (middling stats but a weird mix of 'bad' and 'really good' skills), and Brock was a giant wall because of how the challenge was set up (pokemon are boosted to level 50 but don't have the additional stats from EV experience), but how does the final team that rolled over Fasslp compare to the rentals, at least stat-wise? Edit: I made it look easy and then suddenly stopped because I couldn’t make an update about how hard it was to beat Misty if I couldn’t win against her in the first place. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 18:21
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Doing some quick math, it looks like the rental Pokémons' stats are more or less slap bang in the middle of the range, at level 50 each stat can vary from Base Stat +5 to BS +51 (+15 from DVs, +31 from stat experience and +5 because every stat starts at 5 (on a hypothetical Level 0 Pokémon) and increases linearly from there) and all the Rental Pokémons' Stats are BS+28 or 29.
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Mar 19, 2021 02:37
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Route 29: The Level Difference Is Obvious!  There are four types of Stadium Cups in Pokemon Stadium (at least in the localized version, more on that in a future update). They each have several rules in common, including obvious patches like sleep moves failing if the opponent already has a sleeping Pokemon, and special case rules for Self-Destruct and Explosion to prevent draws. Like the Castle Climb, they also have each trainer chosing three Pokemon from a stock of six. Where they differ are max levels and what Pokemon are allowed or banned. For consistency's sake and because I feel like it, we're going to do the cups from lowest level to highest. First up is the Pika Cup, which allows Pokemon between levels 15 and 20, with each chosen team of three having a max combined level of 50. (Read: Two level 15s and a level 20.) There are no species limitations here aside from banning Mewtwo and Mew, so not only could you cheat in an underlevled Dragonite and wreck shop, but there are also a number of other Pokemon you can get through in-game trade shenanigans and other such tricks. Bulbapedia has an entire list of which ones are available and how. Most of them involve Yellow Version. Special shout-out to Muk, which you can get by catching an underleveled Golduck in Yellow by Surfing on one specific Route, and trading it for a Rhydon at the Pokemon Lab. Then, instead of just keeping your shiny new Level 15 Rhydon, you have to trade it specifically to the Japanese version of Pokemon Blue, and take it to that game's Pokemon Lab for an underleveled Kangaskhan. Then, you trade that back to Yellow so you can return to the Pokemon Lab for a third time across two games and trade it for a Level 15 Muk. You shouldn't do this, but you can.    I just went with the strongest Pokemon you can get through 'normal' play, plus Mr. Mime because my purpose in life is to suffer for your fleeting entertainment. Check out the previous update if you care about how I got them. THE GIRL isn't the strongest Pokemon in any category, and actually quite slow, but she's a decent Normal-type attacker with a sleep move. Sometimes, that's enough. WET LOL XD is our physical wall, gets STAB on Surf, and is the most viable user of Explosion not just at this level, but also arguably in RBY as a whole. MARCEL is    As you might imagine, the first few trainers of the Pika Cup aren't quite prepared for the kind of force we're bringing to the table.   This is good. Stadium Cups, instead of being four rounds, are instead eight.  What might otherwise be a grueling luck-based slog is made up for by a mechanic where, if you beat a trainer without losing any Pokemon, you get a continue,    Each continue gives you one chance to retry a battle that you lost.   Therefore, we want to clear the as many of the early rounds as possible without taking any KOs, so that we have a buffer in later rounds against poor luck or unwise team choices.    And team choices are in fact very important here.     If we don't have or didn't bring a move type that exploits the opponent's weaknesses, getting a perfect involves a lot of juggling Pokemon around to make sure nobody gets worn down by sheer attrition.    On the other hand, if we did bring the right move-type, things get much simpler.   And entire rounds can go by without taking more than a few points of damage.    Round 5 can go similarly, depending on which Pokemon he chooses.     But sometimes you do have to punch through with brute force.    Round 6 is where team variety starts to matter...     But raw power can still make up the difference. Rounds 1-6 Losses: 0    Those in-game trading acrobatics I mentioned earlier weren't entirely academic; Lass has a Dewgong that can only be obtained through these shenanigas, and she gave it Ice Beam for a solid STAB move. She's actually technically cheating, as the Dewgong in question is locked into the nickname CEZANNE.   It's far from her only good Pokemon, though. Unlike MARCEL, her Mr. Mime (who should also technically be named MARCEL) has Psychic, which cranks up his power from "alright" to "oh gently caress". It's still frail and its speed is pretty average, but if you underestimate it, it can and will take something down.   Her Gyarados is not only Level 20, it is also a Gyarados, which means it has the speed, power, and bulk to demolish a weakened or unprepared team all by itself.   The Thunder for coverage keeps WET LOL XD not only from being a solid counter, but from even getting a chance to Explode on it if I get unlucky or don't arrange things perfectly.     Our saving grace here is Thunder's 70% accuracy, which gives TRIBUTE a chance to 2HKO it with a combination of Fly and Hyper Beam. If it hadn't been for that, GYARADETTE here would have solo'd my entire team not just once, but as many times as it took for me to find a successful strategy for bringing it down without losing the entire rest of my team to whatever else she brought.   And it might have still done the job if her last Pokemon had been something that could exploit the free turn that Hyper Beam's recharge gave it. Instead, she brought the cute but useless Meowth, and it failed to do anything of note before I sealed the deal. Losses: 0    Our last opponent is a Fisherman, which makes him sound easy and nonthreatening. He isn't. Dragonair brings the very same ARGH strategy that Lorelei had, while also packing Double Team, and while Golduck and Tentacool are unexciting, they still have the base stats to make those STAB Surfs hurt like hell.     The opener he chose for our battle, Raticate, is probably the least threatening Pokemon he has, needing to use Quick Attack to outspeed BACON and then getting completely bodied by Earthquake in return.   Slowbro, on the other hand, is absolutely his strongest, with enormous stats for a Level 16 Pokemon and two extremely powerful STABs.   I decide "gently caress that" and get rewarded with the single luckiest crit of my entire goddamn life, as Slowbro has solid enough HP and Defense that Explosion otherwise wouldn't have even taken off 2/3s of his health. This man's Slowbro is loving terrifying.   Then he follows the example the Lass set last round and brings something without any real hope of capitalizing on the opportunity his best Pokemon bought him.     It and THE GIRL have an epic 1v1 duel, basically just for shits and giggles.   Losses: 0 Total Losses: 0   So, that's the Pika Cup. Six rounds of trivial nonsense followed by two rounds of sphincter-clenching terror.  I hope this doesn't become a pattern. Next Tme on Multi-Track Battling: It becomes a pattern. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 05:43
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Hahaha what the gently caress was that . Mr Mime with Psychic, Dewgong with STAB, loving Dragonair jesus.
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Mar 21, 2021 06:42
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And that's not even the worst of what exactly would show up in Round 2! In terms of "reasonable" legitimacy, that Dragonair can be fished up at level 15 in everyone's favourite place exclusively in Yellow: The Safari Zone!
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Mar 21, 2021 07:00
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What the hell are those last two trainers.
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Mar 21, 2021 07:04
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70 base Speed Dragonair with Wrap, and a 95/110/80 defensive spread Slowbro. Can't forget the 90/80/95 Dewgong, which is also sporting 70 base Speed! And then the 125/100 attacking Gyarados. You DID bring an Electric type, right?
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Mar 21, 2021 07:37
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It should be possible to get a Pikachu, evolve it to Raichu, and teach it Thunderbolt, right? But does it outspeed Gyrados? Jolteon is also an option but oof using up your one eevee for Pika Cup is going to hurt in the future cups.
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Mar 21, 2021 07:40
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I know I've been playing this game too loving much when my first reaction upon seeing that roster was "well, it's not that bad, the Dewgong doesn't even have Surf and the Tentacool's unevolved."
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Mar 21, 2021 07:44
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Raichu would outspeed Gyarados no problem, but PMush doesn't have any offensive Electric TMs at this point and Thundershock isn't gonna cut it here. Also thanks to clearing Gym Leader Castle, she technically has access to unlimited Eevee, so that wouldn't have been a problem.
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Mar 21, 2021 07:45
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