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Have you ever been to the moon?
This poll is closed.
Yes 149 32.82%
Absolutely 100 22.03%
I want to talk to Samson 205 45.15%
Total: 454 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!
I left D2 on PS4 right after Forsaken dropped and finishing that campaign, and came back on PC once they did cross-save. Did the Shadowkeep campaign but couldn't really get into Undying, but I'm really enjoying the game this season.

I feel the gameplay/loot cycle is rewarding and I actually have a ton of content to get through with all the exotic quests, the legendaries, and all the story stuff I missed out on since Forsaken. The bounty system manages to drive me to do a whole bunch of stuff and visit different locations everytime I play so I appreciate it, and the general grind for pinnacles is fun and sufficiently challenging.

My experience isn't comparable to people that have been actively playing for a while, but I don't feel the game is at it's best if you're grinding out one specific activity. Spread your time around and do the things you actually enjoy in the game instead of this one specific mode Bungie added that you dislike.

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Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

FileNotFound posted:

That's the issue with seasons though - you're kinda forced to do exactly that. 2 weeks ago I gathered 30 materials in EDZ and Mars - this week - I get to do it again? gently caress that. Another 180 multi kills without reloading a scout? Oh gently caress off....

These things stop being fun and start being chores - and really 30 materials gathered was a chore from the start and whoever programmed that bounty in should have their keyboard rights removed for life.

I feel part of this might be that everyone's worried they won't get all the unlockables, but the game feels generous enough with the fractaline that I've managed to close out 3.5 obelisks in the time since release while just playing on my one main character. I didn't even do all the weekly bounties and it seems I'm on track, even with the empyrean whatever coming up. If it ain't fun, I just ignore it.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Eej posted:

Trials is incredibly fun and playing comp afterwards feels like a relaxing walk in the park. Great mode to finally bring back and great season overall.

Agreed! Comp is especially fun this season since it feels like everyone's training for trials.

I'll also say I enjoy the mix of legendary lost sector/public event/seraph bunker more than I did the sundial; all three are short and sweet repeatable activities tailored more for 3 man teams of friends than a 6 man team of randos. Watching the elite heavy frame gently caress poo poo up is a genuine joy also.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

dragonshardz posted:

How do you get the elite heavy frame, anyway?

Gotta level up the bunker to level 5 I think. There's a bunch of warbits you can get easily if you check the seasonal triumphs:

- doing the bunker clearing / public event / legendary lost sector while wearing a full set of the seasonal armor gives you 100 warbits each.
- clearing a legendary lost sector without dying is another 100.
- playing all three legendary lost sectors on rotation is another 100.

Also, two of the bunker upgrades lower the overall cost significantly, and you can get a whole bunch of warbits from playing crucible/strikes as long as you have that upgrade.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

ErrEff posted:

Bungie gonna Bungie.

It's entirely reasonable for Trials honestly.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!
Hunters doing their best to stay out of the tower, hunters are very into the lore you see.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Pirate Jet posted:

So day one of the quest is mostly over and we’re at 4% for EDZ and 1% for the other two destinations. Number crunchers on Ishtar Collective are saying if the current pace continues - and it won’t - it would take a little over 300 days to finish. There have been about 10,000 completions on Io when it needs 3 million.

I thought the point of separating from Activision was to make things more flexible? If they can change the map rotation for Trials I see no reason they can’t change a number for a community challenge, unless they genuinely don’t realize how little doing the Seraph Towers is worth, or how much the players hate the update to it.

This is some wild math - the average per day based on current performance so far will be around 1.67% to 2.5% - that translates to roughly (40 to 60) days to finish the event, with only 28 days left for the season.

Also, the 1% for the two destinations counts for 30K completions each, not 10K.

Completion numbers can and will go up once more people pick up the quest from Anna, and especially on weekends.

Ham fucked around with this message at 12:18 on May 13, 2020

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Pirate Jet posted:

Ishtar Collective is using the Bungie API to see the exact number of completions as opposed to just the percentage, and Io is at a little over 10k. It’s displaying as 1% because it’s rounded up. As for the rest, that’s probably why I said “if they continue at their current rates - which they won’t.” Any boosts that the progression is getting are almost certainly going to be almost, if not entirely, nullified by a crash in aspirational grinders - and even then, if we’re depending on the weekly active bunker to shake things up, I’m sure Io will get a 3% boost in, uh... two weeks.

Taking all that into consideration it's still 40 to 60 days since that all works out to about ~2% average progression per day (so far there are 172 / 9000 completions based on the API data with ~4 more hours to spare).

It might be that they've designed the event to have a real chance to both fail and succeed - since there's a damaged tower model ingame, so the quest might say you didn't do enough and have debris from the Almighty hit the city.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

xzzy posted:

Guess the almighty is gonna slingshot around Jupiter on its way to the earth and run over titan in the process.

In the span of ~90 days.

The implication is it's the pyramids. Try checking the bunker display next time you're there.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

xzzy posted:

lol at anyone doing bunker anything at this point

Here you go

https://gfycat.com/embarrassedcompassionateherald

They arrive at the end of the season

Ham fucked around with this message at 17:08 on May 13, 2020

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

RBX posted:

I keep looking at the name of the quest. I don't think we're supposed to win this and it's just gonna sit unfinished until the end of the season and Rasputin is gonna do some poo poo to slightly gently caress us over and destroy the ship. This quest could be his final judgement of guardians. I can't wrap my mind around them actually expecting this to be done.

About Titan, it's small and nothing there would be missed by most (Not me, I like every planet). I think destroying stuff is stupid and their size excuse is flimsy.

https://twitter.com/A_dmg04/status/1260634275377934336

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

The champions were 980 so who cares if they're 970 or 950 or whatever now. Their incoming and outgoing damage are unaffected and all it does is let Jonny FreshPlayer do a little better at 950 light

10x progress isn't enough either

Assuming average completions holds, 20% on weekends and 10% on weekdays ain't enough?

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

510rems posted:

i was pretty excited this season because it seemed like it was going to have a title i could actually finish by myself without having to play pvp, gambit, or use a party finder for something. then the last challenge unlocked and kicked me in the teeth. trying to get the flawless seraph tower completion has been hell. occasionally i manage to zone into an instance with a decent number of competent-seeming people (some even have the title themselves!) but it honestly feels like no one gives a poo poo and they just don't bother to keep monsters out of the zone at all.

It's pretty easy with a bunch of goons - if you'd like, the Euro clan is doing a run for the triumph tomorrow at 8PM CET with 9 players and there's still one slot open.

https://discord.gg/hJ4Ade

Discospawn posted:

Ah, yes, Bungie decides to admit they were off by an order of magnitude. A mistake that they are convinced nobody could have seen coming. Surely this won't convince players to never bother engaging with community events in the future.

If people engage with the event it's because it's either fun to them or they want to get thing faster and that ain't stopping because Bungie adjusted it. Bungie taking feedback on this and re-tuning the quest is not a bad step by any stretch.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Ataxerxes posted:

I took a few months break from this thing once this season started but now I'm sorta coming back. Is the exotic auto rifle for this season any good, the fire one that damages you if you shoot too long? And does it go nicely with Actium War Rig?

It's a lot of fun for mowing down ads in Escalation Protocol or the Seraph Events - I only play on hunter so not sure on the Actium.

Kind of dead in PvP even with the masterwork.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!
Just to frame all this discussion, you'll be able to use all your guns and armor in the absolute majority of D2 content until the game "shuts down" - the steps outlined yesterday relate to a very specific subset of content:

- Future raids / dungeons
- Future story and seasonal content
- Trials and iron banner
- Difficult nightfalls

Their goal here is to have a fresh experience for the new content without having to balance armor mods and weapons from years past. This theoretically gives them a lot more leeway from a design perspective and should allow for a fresher game where the content people are chasing feels meaningful to them and not just "Cool shotgun, but I'm going back to mindbenders".


On the other hand, here are the things where your current y1-y3 gear, as well as all future gear will always remain relevant and available for you to play with at no detriment:

- All the story content for y1-y3 along with related quests and activities.
- All raids and dungeons released upto y3.
- Patrolling destinations along with all that entails, public events and escalation protocol and the nightmare zone.
- Strike playlists and non-difficult nightfalls.
- Gambit
- All other pvp content

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

So stuff that's released at the very end of a season (Felwinter's Lie, for example) gets a raw deal since they effectively have only 2 seasons before retirement?

No - weapons have a one year timer from their entry into the game before this starts affecting them. Felwinter's under this system will support max power through S10 (current season), S11, S12 (Year 4 Season One) and S13. Since Felwinter in this case is coming at the end of this season that technically means its real lifecycle is about 10 months.

Armor is the same exact system with the following change to the mod system: Starting with the year 4 expansion (season 12), all seasonal armor will have a mod slot that can equip all year 4 seasonal mods, but can't equip y1-y3 seasonal mods. Effectively this means:

a - You only have to grind for high stat armor once a year - once you have that nice set from season 12 for example, it will be able to equip all of the year 4 seasonal mods.
b - If you like the seasonal mods for year 4 so much that you want to play with them in these pinnacle activities for some time in year 5, your best option is to get a high stat armor roll from season 15 (last season of year 4), since that armor will be usable for upto 3 seasons in year 5.

Fly Molo posted:

Like, fundamentally this means Bungie still needs to continue balancing older content (since people will still be playing lots of content with those guns, assuming that line of reasoning holds true) but also needs to dramatically increase the number of new guns they make in order to provide enough variety, which has been a huge bottleneck for months.

e: *checks notes* oh cool check out the viable list of guns for trials after season 11, what a wide selection.

It's a good list but that's not your trials selection past S11 unless you forget exotics exist or think Bungie isn't introducing new weapons in S11 and S12.

Ham fucked around with this message at 22:19 on May 15, 2020

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Fly Molo posted:

So now we have to grind for and keep track of armor based on its stat rolls, maximum light level, and mod slot, all of which are independent?

Fun shouldn't be this tedious. :negative:

You don't have to grind though. These are hypothetical scenarios if you wish to keep the y4 mods for 3 seasons in year 5, if you don't, then you just need one good set of armor per year and you're set.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Pirate Jet posted:

The length of this post is all the evidence you need for how stupid this idea is.

Then you might as well not discuss any game's design?

If you mean this is hard to understand for the end user A, a person that judiciously follows Destiny news and is very involved with the community - they'll understand how all this works by season 12 through experience with the systems. If you mean user B, someone that casually plays the game or is new, it won't matter in the slightest to them, and the changes offer a more structured experience that minimizes the armor treadmill and makes it optional for poopsockers.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Fly Molo posted:

how does giving armor an expiration date create "a more structured experience" or "minimize the armor treadmill"

The armor treadmill upto S10 was based on seasonal mod slots - if you wanted to use seasonal mods you needed to grind out an armor set per season, or just masterwork the high-stat season pass armor. They recognized in S10 that there was too much armor fragmentation based on mods, so they decided to make it so armor slots mods from the following: Previous season <-> Current season <-> Next season

That system is flawed since it still means you need to masterwork an armor set every two seasons.

Under the new system, you only need to masterwork one armor set per year and it'll be able to slot all seasonal mods from that year. This is both easier to understand and minimizes the obligatory armor treadmill.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Oxyclean posted:

D2Y1 flopped for a lot of reasons, maybe no random elements on guns was a part of it, but the "chase" of trying to get a gun that isn't some combination of garbage hasn't really been all that satisfying to me. Maybe they could transform the chase into being about working towards a good gun, rather then just trying to maximize how many pulls of the slot machine you're doing per hour?

I mean, yeah people are bitching about Seraph guns not having ideal perks, but at least they have a place in warmind cell builds? I feel like that might be a healthier landscape for guns. You have guns that approximate the outlaw/kill clip play style of being generally good all around, then you add guns that support gimmicky builds.

So what if people bitch if new guns aren't always as good old ones? If they're done right they should be able to find a niche. I'd rather have bad new guns that new guns that are just my old guns that I have to re-earn.

Later on in the TWAB they detail a system that works exactly like that for S11 - like a super-powered chalice that lets you roll higher stat armor or specific trait weapons.

quote:

Okay, we’ve talked about some of the places where you’ll earn rewards in Season 11, now let’s talk about how you can influence those rewards to chase god rolls and high-stat armor.

Over the last few Seasons we’ve introduced Weapon Bounties that give you agency to chase specific rewards. While addressing bounty fatigue will be an effort that extends beyond Year 3, for the upcoming Season we’ve moved away from Weapon Bounties as part of that effort. Instead, we’re introducing a new type of [REDACTED] Engram that contains the majority of the Season 11 rewards, and by spending Seasonal currency you can influence the contents of this [REDACTED] Engram.

To clear up any confusion let’s imagine if we launched this [REDACTED] Engram in Season of the Worthy. Imagine this engram contained all the Season of the Worthy weapons and armor. Now imagine you could take this engram to a Seraph Bunker and spend Seasonal currency to Focus the contents of this engram so it only contains the Seventh Seraph SMG and Shotgun. By focusing [REDACTED] Engrams in Season 11 you can choose your rewards, this includes the ability (once you’ve earned it) to Focus engrams so they only contain Season 11 armor with high-stat packages.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

Future armor will be able to equip mods from the Year it was released, or it will be able to equip mods from its current season and the following 3 seasons? Or a mix of look back and look forward?

Will season 12 armor (Y4 Season 1) be able to equip mods from 12, 13, 14 and 15 (the 4 seasons that make up year 4) exclusively? Will season 15 armor also only be able to equip mods from 12, 13, 14 and 15 exclusively?

Or will season 15 armor be able to equip mods from 15, 16, 17, 18?

Like... Does armor have a 1 season back & 2 seasons forward view, or is it always current season + following 3? Or is it always limited to the 4 seasons that make up the year it was released (meaning that season 15 armor will not be exciting to collect since it will only have relevant mods for its current season)

Armor retirement and mod slot changes are really a curveball

The cowards just need to go all in on the Diablo 3 style and wipe every last scrap of loot from our characters once it hits 4 seasons of age

Based on the TWAB, the bolded is correct. Why would you chase season 15 armor if it can't equip mods from seasons 16, 17, or 18? It's an edgecase where you wish to use year 4 mods in pinnacle activities through those three subsequent seasons, since the season 15 armor will be infusable upto the end of season 18.

Here's a quick illustration of it, I'll probably get ridiculed for making the effort:

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Fly Molo posted:

...just to be clear, you think this will be simpler for Casual Player B to understand?

More so that casual player B will not bother with the systems unless they decide to become poopsock player A. If this casual player gets the Y4 expansion (the most likely entry point into the game) and gets good armor sets from it, the point is these will last them a full year before retirement- so the only armor treadmill after that first season is optional (cosmetics / gotta catch em all).

If they come in during season 13 or afterwards, then yeah, poo poo might get confusing depending on how woeful the UI is communicating this stuff.

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

It's just super clunky that my season 14 armor has 2 more seasons of Mod Use but 4 more seasons of Power

Destiny requires a freaking PhD these days, yeesh

Four seasons of mod use but limited to Y4 mods :eng101:

And I'll agree that Destiny in general is clunky, it's very opaque with all these systems.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Oxyclean posted:

Maybe I'm just blind, but that says nothing about specific traits and just being able to target specific guns. So it's just kinda a chalice again?

Step in the right direction though, I suppose.

They mention both god rolls and high stat armor, but for the example only detail the high stat armor. The list is not exhaustive anyway, there's apparently 15 ways to focus the engram for season pass holders.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Scyantific posted:

It's time-gated. Bungo didn't think the sweats would be out en masse to complete all 3 towers in a weekend.

Calling it now (no I am not gonna toxx for this).

E: it's not time-gated
https://twitter.com/A_dmg04/status/1262248725704925188

At least we can buy the ornament on Tuesday while we wait for a patch to fix this!

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

DancingShade posted:

Is there any actual major upcoming story content that progresses the main narrative coming up or is all this stuff about gear retirement & eternal grinding to stay compatitively relevant simply smoke and mirrors while Bungie work on D3 or Unnamed Future IP?

Darkness ships reach Titan with the turn of the season (early June), and there's an expansion planned for the fall that likely follows that narrative. That is all that's known so far.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Arzachel posted:

Said "mind-numbing grinding" in my case was two evenings of playing Control with a shotgun equipped.

For a lot of this thread's regular posters, just launching the game is considered mind-numbing grinding. It is what it is.

Fly Molo posted:

Yeah, everything they’re saying about sunsetting is just window dressing to justify what they really want to do: force you to grind for that Better Devils again and again in season 12, 13, 15, 16... etc. without doing any work on their end to make that fun or worthwhile. If they ever gave a poo poo about balance beyond “too many people are using X”, they don’t any more.

But "too many people are using X" is a result of X being too overpowered compared to the rest of the weapons / perks? What do you want them to balance by exactly?

For what its worth they're still introducing a lot of unique guns into the game even over the past two seasons so this assertion that "they'll just have you grind Better Devils" is in pretty bad faith.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

RBX posted:

Being used the most=/=being overpowered

Players chase optimal TTK and consistency in their builds - this leads to, for example, turning to Hard Light when the AR buff happened in S10, resulting in Hard Light dominating the first month or so of Trials and Crucible in general. This 100% was because Hard Light is too OP with its zero range falloff and lack of stability issues once you have the catalyst. The weapon lacked any noticeable drawbacks that would have you thinking about playing with any other archetype / weapon.

If a weapon / archetype / perk is being used so far ahead of every other alternative then it is either overpowered or the community's trying out something that just got released (Felwinter's being the most recent example). The goal of balancing is to make it so players have a selection of weapons to choose from without one feeling so far ahead of the pack that not using it would be detrimental.


Sultan Tarquin posted:

I stopped playing near the end of SK and I feel like I dodged a bullet what the gently caress happened.

Here are all the upcoming changes based on the TWABs:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/gpdo4a/list_of_coming_changes_to_destiny_2_organized_by/

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Fly Molo posted:

^^sure, in some cases. But they shouldn't be looking at nerfing 600s again right after they buffed them, because they're looking at the wrong question. Why are so many people using 600s now?
-because they nerfed hand cannon range pretty hard
-because the other auto rifle options (360s, 450s, 720s) suck rear end for a lot of content (they lack DPS, burst damage, range, or some combination of the above)
Maybe they should buff SMGs/pulse rifles/scout rifles in order to give people a reason to use those other guns, rather than just another weapon category that got nerfed to death, again. But those in-game realities aren't reflected in simple usage stats, so to Bungie, they don't exist.

The one consideration they keep mentioning is lowering TTK - would buffing SMGs/pulses/scouts lower TTK even further? If it would then it makes more sense to nerf overachieving archetypes so that most things feel like an option. And for what it's worth, in the current meta I feel happy with several different builds and weapon archetypes and the game feels well-balanced in PvP, aside from some BS supers.


Fly Molo posted:

lol oh, for sure, D2 doesn't have any mind-numbing grinding at all. :stonklol:

...we're both talking about Destiny 2 by Bungie, right?

Destiny has some insane grinds (looking at you, Hush) but 200 Crucible shotgun kills or 1000 pve kills when you have so many horde modes and can run triple shotguns is not one of them. The "grind" is even easily achievable when you play the game as per usual, and if you're really not into shotguns then why would you grind for this?

Fly Molo posted:

Actually playing their game. I think that would give them a lot of insight about how their game feels to players, which they've been lacking for a long time. If they actually play-tested their poo poo, a lot of the dumb fuckups ranging from Prometheus Lens in the 1st DLC, right up to the Lie quest being 100% broken would've been easy to catch and identify. Instead, they release broken content that was clearly never actually played internally before release.

Do you legitimately think Bungie never tested The Lie quest before shipping it? The game is very buggy and they should be called out on the amount of bugs and unintended downtime and disconnects they've been suffering from, but it's disingenuous to paint that as them not giving a poo poo and willfully shipping broken patches.

As to them playing their own game, they regularly reference their internal playtesting when announcing perk changes or buffs / nerfs, and the weapons they've introduced over the past two seasons have included some novel feeling archetypes that complement stuff already in the game - they obviously play their game, but a significant number of people in the community disagree with the design decisions they're making.

Fly Molo posted:

And more broadly: that's a reductive and dumb way of looking at balancing. What's the end goal, everyone uses every gun equally because they're all indistinguishable bland mush? Buff/nerf decisions shouldn't ever be based on usage rates alone. Here's a couple of examples of what other factors affect usage rates:

PvE: Sniper rifles are over-represented in high-level content, and shotguns are under-represented. So the solution is to nerf sniper rifles and buff shotguns, right? Nope! That would make a lot of existing PvE content frustrating or impossible to finish. People don't make those decisions in a vacuum: when every boss has a stomp attack (even the ones without legs!) and long-range shooting is often required in order to survive, you'd have to be a moron to bring a shotgun to a GM nightfall.

PvP: Scout rifles are under-represented, and shotguns are over-represented. So the solution is to buff scout rifles and nerf shotguns, maybe make them heavy again/give them less ammo/drop the 1HKO distance by a few meters, right? Nope! That misses the context that most of the maps don't have long fire lanes, so you'd have to change the maps or provide some other incentive for people to actually want to use scout rifles.

As I understand it, the goal of balancing in this kind of game is to maintain player interest by providing a variety of choices and playstyles to choose from - if only one playstyle works then players are ignoring a substantial % of the equipment and just defaulting to Izanagi/Divinity everything. The nerf they did to sniper rifles did not eliminate their use in this content, but it opened up other options, where people can now also use Xenophage or grenade launchers on the first GoS boss, or how you can now cheese Riven with whirlwind blade swords after the sword boost. Hell, the GM tree of probabilities actually showed how Swords were now one of the most viable strategies against that boss, and previously persona non-grata weapons are now making appearances in that high level content - and 3* Eriana's has emerged as a powerful build for grandmaster NFs.

I brought a shotgun to both the Exodus Crash and Insight Terminus to deal with the adds when you're defending the points and it worked out great, soooo

As for the PvP part - I don't know that Bungie's balancing scout rifles versus shotguns considering their usecases here. The scout rifle problem as you said is more about map design where it feels like there's only 3 maps that really empower it (Midtown, Bannerfall and Vostok).

Fly Molo posted:

People don't use Spare Rations because it's easy to get or it's super OP and broken, they use it because the pool of 150 hand cannons with good perks is loving tiny. And now Bungie is shrinking that pool even further.

I'd say all the 150 legendary HCs have already been deprecated with the exception of Luna's Howl / Waking Vigil / Spare Rations. They reintroduced Dire Promise this season which rolls with some very good perks and it's on them to introduce good replacements on S11 and the expansion.

Fly Molo posted:

lol it was referencing a design challenge that they've reference in several past TWABs: "how do we make your 5th, 6th, or 7th Better Devils just as exciting as the first?"

Bungie's old approach: they set it up with random rolls back in Forsaken, and haven't touched it since.
Bungie's new approach: If you like the look/feel/perks of your favorite Better Devils, you're going to have to repeatedly grind for a good Better Devils roll, several times per year, in order to keep using it in raids/iron banner/trials. That's bullshit make-work drudgery for no other reason than to increase player engagement stats. That doesn't help balance (they still need to balance it for all other game content!), or make new guns more enticing (a poo poo gun is always a poo poo gun, even if you nerf all the competition) or let you play the way you want.

I don't understand this, what under the new approach makes you think you'll have to grind out multiple good rolls on one gun per year?

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Arkage posted:

For people like me who've completely lost interest despite getting the year pass, the point of contention isn't that some grinds are doable and some aren't. The point is that everything is now a number grind, and the game has fully embraced its digital spreadsheet nature. Despite all the poo poo the mini-expansions got back in the day, at least I'd actually play through them and somewhat enjoy the short time I had with them. This drive toward number chasing is just totally lost on me.

I can see how it sucks in context when everything in the game feels that way, along with them removing these weapon pursuits at the end of the season. As someone that stopped playing with Warmind and came back with Shadowkeep, I feel like the late Y1 and Y2 grinds (for both exotics and activity pursuit weapons such as Wendigo, Delirium, Redrix, etc.) are a lot worse than the stuff I've experienced since Y3 started.

Ham fucked around with this message at 16:49 on May 24, 2020

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Discospawn posted:

Which... which hand cannon is 1-shotting you?

Edit: A new post on Reddit attempts to consolidate everything we know about upcoming changes from TWABs (https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/gpdo4a/list_of_coming_changes_to_destiny_2_organized_by/). When reviewing it, boy does it look like Season 11 is going to be sparse on reasons to play.

Based on what exactly?

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Zedsdeadbaby posted:

If Bungie had something substantial for S12 they would have hyped it by now, they know they are in the doldrums

Instead all they have is 'we are taking away your poo poo and nerfing your favorite perks'

D3 better thundercunt it out of the field if they're taking this many resources away from 2

I think you might want to wait a couple weeks before you make that judgement, historically they start their marketing cycle for the expansion in June and that coincides with this season ending in two weeks.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Discospawn posted:

Bungie's launch of the "Targeted Engram" system (66% of legendary engram world drops) that lets us... get the same loot as we had for each of the past 3 seasons (if you buy the season pass), in addition to new Season 11 loot.

The new World Loot pool (30 weapons shared between all 3 playlists and 33% of Legendary drops in the wild) that contains mostly old weapons, half of which will be sunset as soon as the season ends.

No new armor for Tower vendors, and the only new IB rewards to be "reprisal" weapons with new perk options.

A lack of any new incentive to return to Trials (on PC at least, I guess for consoles there's a chance their increased tokens & crafting materials for win cards makes a difference, but I doubt it). A lack of any new incentive to engage with GrandMaster Nightfalls (which Bungie admitted is by design, and still seems crazy).

A new precedent from this week's TWAB that Bungie can/will fundamentally alter how perks function, making the idea of anything being a 'god roll' feel tenuous. This is accompanied by some archetype changes and promises of more frequent archetype balancing in the future, which furthers the idea that guns you like now might be arbitrarily balanced at any point (even before those weapons get sunset). Avoiding this type of thing was 1 of the fundamental justifications for why they needed to implement sunsetting ("we can't balance everything, we don't want to change how guns work/feel, etc."), and they aren't even doing it in a way that makes the clearly sub-par weapons better (Scout Rifles, Rocket Launchers, 110 Hand Cannons, etc).

A reduced incentive to engage with legacy activities like Reckoning, Menagerie, Forges, etc. (due to sunsetting as well as the "active balancing" issues above).

A lot of these things are amplified because of promises they've made for Season 12 & beyond. Season 12 gets a Tower Vendor armor refresh, and seasonal mods on all Season 12 armor are forward compatible for a year. Season 12 has been promised to be less bounty-driven (no more weekly bounties, and reduced emphasis on dailies in general). Season 12 and beyond have been promised to have weapons and armor ornaments that are unique to each playlist, distinguishing their rewards from one another.

Basically, all indications are that Season 11 will be like Season 10 but worse. You'll have some seasonal activities to engage with, but the game will remain driven by bounties and grind-y quests. Playlist activities (and their loot) will seem less relevant than ever. And if you think you'll be playing the game for the Fall Expansion / Season 12, there's even less reason to engage with the fundamental gameplay loop in Season 11 because of how quickly you'll want/need to replace anything you received from Season 11.

I've found all of these announcements and decisions to be really bewildering, and they would only seem to make sense if the Fall Expansion fundamentally alters the game in some drastic, clever way that justifies all of these decisions. But jesus, you'd think Bungie would announce some of that stuff along with all this other news if that was the case.

This is a good summary post of pain points. As for Menagerie, Reckoning and Forges (all the Y2 seasonal content), I feel like the intended design is to fully deprecate them once Y4 starts - don't know if they'd go as far as removing the activities from the game or not. I think it's also likely they'll be rolling Forsaken into the New Light F2P experience.

We're likely getting our first look at S11 by Thursday - and I feel like, with the story headed in the direction it is, it might be a substantial season. We'll see.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Eej posted:

Destiny is bad because it doesn't support are troops

https://twitter.com/Halo/status/1264904306358091776

:hellyeah:

Chances of Trump retweeting a Masterchief space force video on the up and up.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

Oh God.

"[Vex Offensive] is the catalyst, [Sundial] is really where things start to build, and [Seraph Tower Public Event] is where things start to get pretty intense, and then Season 11 everything is going to come together and you're gonna want to be there to see it happen. It's going to be like no other time in Destiny"

This means Season 11 will have all 3 activities switched back on, doesn't it

They're talking about narrative design.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

Yikes, that's far more embarrassing. Their in-game narrative has been... absent entirely. Like, they didn't even attempt to deliver on this.

"You're gonna want to be there to see [The new lore tabs on the seasonal gear] . It's going to be like no other time in Destiny"

This might be true if you missed out on all the lorebooks they've released with Shadowkeep and since? And it's about the narrative moving in a direction of "Everyone's coming together to face the big threat", that includes Osiris, Rasputin, the Vanguard and Saint-14.

SUNKOS posted:

Forsaken is the most popular Destiny expansion and so much of it was made by another studio and Luke is pissed as hell about that. The fact other developers could see what worked well, what didn't work well, and then craft the best expansion the franchise has ever seen around that is a huge slap in the face to him.

This is some exceptionally lovely narrative you're pulling here.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Spiv posted:

But, this is the exact same issue that the grimmy cards had. You have to do abstract poo poo for a lot of the lore entries to get them, and most players are not inclined to do that.

Plus, a lot are written poorly.

And that still needs to be reflected in the game, and they have not done that at all.

I enjoy a hot log in my mouth every once in a while, as well, but man, you gotta know when to pull it out and realize you're just fantasizing about it tasting good.

I don't understand what you're disagreeing with here. The quote "Season 8 is the catalyst, season 9 is intense, and season 11 is blah blah where everything comes together" is not saying "Please check out until season 11 where the REAL poo poo happens", it's saying we're building up a narrative in year 3 that comes to a climactic end in season 11 with narrative threads merging.

When I say "They're talking about narrative design" it's not a defense of their narrative work, just stating what their intent is since GoGoGadgetChris seemed to think they meant the seasonal activities.

As to the quality of the narrative work I'd say it's lacking and far too spread around to work effectively.

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

You're really saying that "Season 8 is the catalyst, Season 9 is really where things start to build, and Season 10 is where things start to get pretty intense, and then Season 11 everything is going to come together and you're gonna want to be there to see it happen. It's going to be like no other time in Destiny" is referring to reading lore tabs? Really?

Even the Bungie Defenders are lacking any charm these days :smith:

It is, literally, referring to where the narrative is headed. It's saying "Please be excited, a lot of the characters in our universe will come together for a climactic thing in season 11 and it will build throughout the year". That includes the lorebooks, the overall narrative of each season and how each one leads to the next, etc. The quality of that or the method of delivery is a separate matter.

Ham fucked around with this message at 22:47 on May 26, 2020

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

That segment of the video was literally talking about how they're planning on building an evolving world that you'll want to be there for (in-game, playing the game). And I'm saying they did a peepee poor job of it since the only thing that has evolved each season is a new seasonal activity and I suppose some changes to the NPC areas at the Tower

The lore tabs, as always, are fantastic, but they're not an evolving world. You don't have to Be There for them as they happen

And I agree with you. I really like most of the lorebooks and lore tabs but they could do better both reflecting them in the world, making sure players are aware of it through other mechanisms, and ensuring the world is evolving. The big problem is that THEORETICALLY, the world is evolving based on things happening season to season - but practically it is not done in any way that people would care or engage with it. As an example:

The Sundial narrative was about the three Cabal Psion sisters trying to use the sundial to restore Ghaul -----> Community ends up defeating all three sisters and their combined form -----> A lorebook reveals that the three sisters actually had a fourth one who is the one presumably responsible for setting the Almighty on a collision course with Earth in Season 10

Over the course of the sundial adventures Osiris sees something about the darkness and Rasputin -----> Osiris goes to Rasputin and aims his gun at at a computer shouting about sides -----> You find out in a Bungie blog article that Osiris travelled to the Kuiper belt after meeting Rasputin and actually met the Darkness and took something from them


There are links between these steps but they are so tenuous and invisible that they might as well not be there at all - and the biggest problem is the seeming disconnect between the narrative team and the seasonal design team about when and how to reveal stuff in the game, notwithstanding an essential part of the year-3 lore being relegated to Bungie's blog.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

SUNKOS posted:

Wait what

https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/48506

quote:

Osiris feels the weight of Rasputin’s assessment. Rhythmic cipher crashes over him as displays sling projections into maddening motion. Osiris’s face splits into golden multitudes to consume the information. Eyes in all directions, searching for the path. Rasputin constructs a model of the system, highlighting an anomalous signal near the edge of Sol’s influence. Osiris’s mind sieves the data into manufactured purpose...........


Fly Molo posted:

oh my god they thought we were gonna love this season.

Next season is the one they're hyping to heaven there.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Silver Alicorn posted:

What’s up y’all I’m gay and I’m playing this game now. Approximately how much bullshit can I get up to w/ goons w/o purchasing the paid content just yet?

A lot of poo poo, just make sure to pop in to any of the PC goon Discords so you can get into groups.

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Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

Discospawn posted:

Wow, that TWAB was really just a whole lot of nothing. Even if they didn't have anything new to talk about, they could've at least used the space as an FAQ related to all their announcements from the past 2 months (which would've been a way to prove that "they're listening" to the community). Or they could've done a write-up explaining the technical aspect of the bug with The Lie quest and explained what they've done to prevent anything similar.

I'm not even sure they're promising any big reveals in 12 days, I think that's just when the next season starts and they're not going to bother to try to hype it up.

Next season features the arrival of the darkness so they really just might want that to stand on its own as a "surprise".

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