Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




PawParole posted:

Never understood how his books fit together. Literally every series of different descriptions of the same place ( in one series the mesoge is soggy and bleak, then itís a tropical paradise), and Iíve never understood which city the City is from the other books. It canít be Mezentinia, or Perimedia or Ap Escatoy or whatever.


Still, a wonderful writer and Iíll be reading his book when it comes out.

Yeah I've heard people refer to his system as fantasy legos. He reuses the same places, same religion (Invincible Sun) and similar Greek/Byzantine names but without them actually all being a part of the same fantasy world. In some stories the Studium is a guild of wizards, in others its just a type of University. What's referred to as the City changes based on the book and what characters think of as The City.

Ccs fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Apr 7, 2021

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Teddybear
May 16, 2009

Look! A teddybear doll!
It's soooo cute!



Worldcon (in DC this year) just announced that they're moving from August to December 15-19. The hotel they had for August filed for bankruptcy, so they were faced with either doing a more or less entirely virtual convention in August, finding a new site for a probably still-restricted convention, or delaying some months to have an in-person convention that would probably need fewer restrictions.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





kurona_bright posted:

What's wrong with The Sharing Knife?

Nothing really. It's a slow-paced romance left to develop organically in a reasonably interesting world. I only read the first two, but Mom liked the series. You might too.

And it was definitely better than The Spirit Ring.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Twas the week before Christmas and all through the con
The grudges and callouts were beginning to spawn

ClydeFrog
Apr 13, 2007

Jesus Suffering Fuck how can running for 3 minutes BE SO HARD.

I'm reading the last book in the Milkweed trilogy and for some reason the author is constantly reminding me of major plot points that happened in the first two books in the most hamfisted way that I might not even finish.

Such a shame. I really enjoyed the first two but this is very unnecessary and annoying. It's not even well done. A character will suddenly think something like

"And he was then reminded of the special mission, in which they had done the thing to achieve another thing and set in motion that other thing whilst in that place and with those people, but now he had to banish those thoughts and get on with this thing instead."

GAH.

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007
INSOLENT


Yeah, I can't imagine why a book about time travel and destiny manipulation would need to remind you of details in the first book that you read four years ago.

pradmer
Mar 31, 2009


The Two of Swords: Volume Two by KJ Parker - $1.99
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y5685GX/

Bloody Rose (The Band #2) by Nicholas Eames - $2.99
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074M6KW1X/

The Tower of Fools (Hussite #1) by Andrzej Sapkowski - $2.99
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZZ22J48/

Return to Honor (Powder Mage) by Brian McClellan - $0.99
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00Q38OFB8/

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




pradmer posted:


The Tower of Fools (Hussite #1) by Andrzej Sapkowski - $2.99
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZZ22J48/


Anyone read this and what did you think? I haven't read any Witcher but I wasn't a fan of the tv show.

multijoe
Oct 15, 2007

NYO~HO


I've been working my way through The Priory of the Orange Tree for the last week. It really grabbed me at the start but as the book goes on it gets harder not to see the scars of YA writing over it (a hyper competent protagonist whose only flaw is that society can't appreciate how awesome she is, absolutely breakneck pacing that doesn't allow any event to settle or a mood to build). It's really disappointing as the first half of slow burn court intrigue was great and then that all just blows away for a manic swashbuckling jaunt across a continent with events bring resolved almost as soon as they're presented and cosmically unlikely coincidences to keep a smooth flow of plot progression at all times. Coming off the back off of rereading Robin Hobb's Assassin and Liveship trilogies it really makes you appreciate writer who can make an entire chapter about walking through some countryside or hanging out in a room interesting

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


I just read Snow Crash. It was OK, I guess. Like The Diamond Age, it had a lot of interesting ideas and enjoyable scenes, but I don't think they really cohered together very well. It's all over the place tonally; sometimes it seems to be a parody of cyberpunk (especially near the beginning), sometimes it's trying to have serious Big Sci-Fi Ideas, and sometimes it's just a thriller.

Maybe the oddest thing about the book is how implausibly early it's set. It was published in 1992, but it's set in the 00s (the main character is in his late twenties and was born in the 70s). Somehow in a bit over a decade, not only has the US government mostly collapsed, but people seem to have made a nearly complete mental adjustment to the resulting ancap dystopia. To be fair, 1992 was only a year after the USSR collapsed; maybe the idea that the US and other countries would soon follow seemed plausible then. Plus the ancap dystopia feels more satirical in the early chapters, and only starts being presented as serious worldbuilding later on. It's still strange, though, because we retrospectively tend to accuse Americans in the 90s of being overly optimistic about the future; after all, The End of History and the Last Man was also published in 1992. So maybe it's really just leftover 80s pessimism copied from other cyberpunk.

Another setting element that's interesting to compare to what actually happened is the Metaverse. What's fascinating about it is how many people who had read a lot of cyberpunk apparently tried very hard to make it a thing in real life (remember Second Life?), but they could never really make it a thing. Though by the time of The Diamond Age, the Metaverse doesn't really seem to be a thing in Stephenson's world either; apparently people lost interest in it, just as even journalists eventually lost interest in Second Life. (Though a quick Google search assures me that Second Life is somehow technically still active! Huh.)

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Another odd thing about Snow Crash is YT being 15. Just a choice that has aged (or not aged??) real poorly.

buffalo all day
Mar 13, 2019



multijoe posted:

I've been working my way through The Priory of the Orange Tree for the last week. It really grabbed me at the start but as the book goes on it gets harder not to see the scars of YA writing over it (a hyper competent protagonist whose only flaw is that society can't appreciate how awesome she is, absolutely breakneck pacing that doesn't allow any event to settle or a mood to build). It's really disappointing as the first half of slow burn court intrigue was great and then that all just blows away for a manic swashbuckling jaunt across a continent with events bring resolved almost as soon as they're presented and cosmically unlikely coincidences to keep a smooth flow of plot progression at all times. Coming off the back off of rereading Robin Hobb's Assassin and Liveship trilogies it really makes you appreciate writer who can make an entire chapter about walking through some countryside or hanging out in a room interesting

I'm usually quick to pick up on that YA feel but didn't get that here (although your description is not wrong). Last time it came up I said

buffalo all day posted:

It's bad. The author is trying to capital-W write, so it's not bad the way Kindle Unlimited self-published stuff is bad, it's just long and boring in a way that a story about good dragons vs evil dragons, magic swords and immortal witches really shouldn't be boring.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

General Battuta posted:

Another odd thing about Snow Crash is YT being 15. Just a choice that has aged (or not aged??) real poorly.

Maybe itís all some kind of commentary on the hypersexualization of ďyoung womenĒ and claiming agency over your own sexuality even in coercive power structures, I dunno, I dunno, maybe Iím just having a moral panic, it just skeeves me out.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




Whenever authors write underage characters in those kind of situations I assume the author just kind of forgot how old they are. Although thatís probably because the only book Iíve read like that was The Wise Mans Fear and Iím positive that the author cribbed those sections from drafts where the protagonist was older.

Apparatchik Magnet
Sep 25, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


General Battuta posted:

Another odd thing about Snow Crash is YT being 15. Just a choice that has aged (or not aged??) real poorly.

This sort of thing just seems very common in books before the last decade or two. GRRM has Daenerys 13 in AGoT; Ce'Nedra was apparently 15 at the beginning of the Belgariad; the Garrett Files (I'm rereading) has Garrett actively skeeving on 18 year olds when he's 30ish but also noticing in an academic way those a bit younger; in Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn Simeon starts the series at 14, putting Miriamele at 13 or 14 (and later seduced/coerced by a several or many years older noble); and I feel like there have to be plenty of other examples in things that were reasonably popular in the 80s and 90s.

And then there's Piers Anthony.

General Battuta posted:

Maybe itís all some kind of commentary on the hypersexualization of ďyoung womenĒ and claiming agency over your own sexuality even in coercive power structures, I dunno, I dunno, maybe Iím just having a moral panic, it just skeeves me out.

Moving from fantasy/science fiction to reality, the regrettably recently back in the news "cash me ousside" girl was 14 when she first achieved notoriety.

Apparatchik Magnet fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Apr 7, 2021

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013


Nap Ghost

In a turn to underage characters not written creepily, I just finished Raybearer by Jordan Ifueko and Iím extremely mad that this is the third series Iíve picked up recently that is extremely good but doesnít have its follow up out yet.

Itís real good yíall.

Jaxyon
Mar 6, 2016
boring as hell and also can be low-key racist

Apparatchik Magnet posted:

This sort of thing just seems very common in books before the last decade or two. GRRM has Daenerys 13 in AGoT; Ce'Nedra was apparently 15 at the beginning of the Belgariad; the Garrett Files (I'm rereading) has Garrett actively skeeving on 18 year olds when he's 30ish but also noticing in an academic way those a bit younger; in Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn Simeon starts the series at 14, putting Miriamele at 13 or 14 (and later seduced/coerced by a several or many years older noble); and I feel like there have to be plenty of other examples in things that were reasonably popular in the 80s and 90s.

And then there's Piers Anthony.


Moving from fantasy/science fiction to reality, the regrettably recently back in the news "cash me ousside" girl was 14 when she first achieved notoriety.

Yeah pretty much all western culture is super skeevy about sexualizing girls but fantasy in particular is kind of on it's own level.

It's one of those "technically somewhat historical" things that just happens to make it with no commentary or condemnation. Over and over.

Apparatchik Magnet
Sep 25, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Jaxyon posted:

Yeah pretty much all western culture is super skeevy about sexualizing girls but fantasy in particular is kind of on it's own level.

It's one of those "technically somewhat historical" things that just happens to make it with no commentary or condemnation. Over and over.

Well itís not just girls, Foucault was pushing abolishment of age of consent to cover the sort of thing he had to go do in North Africa with the locals, the modern motivation of Saidís Orientalism.

As far as non-Western cultures I donít think Chinese concubinage or modern rural Arab/Afghan adolescent brides (Aisha has much to answer for) count as nonsexualized behavior except under a pretty weird definition.

Itís one of those absolutely historical and current things, like interpersonal violence, that have only recently and imperfectly been pushed back by WEIRD culture.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Ccs posted:

Whenever authors write underage characters in those kind of situations I assume the author just kind of forgot how old they are. Although thatís probably because the only book Iíve read like that was The Wise Mans Fear and Iím positive that the author cribbed those sections from drafts where the protagonist was older.

Just lol if you're giving Patrick Rothfuss the benefit of the doubt. Or GRRM.


They absolutely know.

Jaxyon
Mar 6, 2016
boring as hell and also can be low-key racist

Evil Fluffy posted:

Just lol if you're giving Patrick Rothfuss the benefit of the doubt. Or GRRM.


They absolutely know.

Wasn't GRRM famous for being a bit touchy at signings and married a fan substantially younger than him?

Doctor Jeep
Dec 30, 2008



Ccs posted:

Yeah I've heard people refer to his system as fantasy legos. He reuses the same places, same religion (Invincible Sun) and similar Greek/Byzantine names but without them actually all being a part of the same fantasy world. In some stories the Studium is a guild of wizards, in others its just a type of University. What's referred to as the City changes based on the book and what characters think of as The City.

i think it's because his novels and series can be separated by a thousand years so it's conceivable that the studium could become a university in that kind of timeframe or even that it's not the same studium that was mentioned before but something new which kept the name
same goes for "the city", there's always "a city", like today it's "new york" or at least that's the city I think about as "the city" (and i'm not even american)
it used to be london, before that maybe paris, before that rome or constantinople etc.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


Ccs posted:

Whenever authors write underage characters in those kind of situations I assume the author just kind of forgot how old they are. Although thatís probably because the only book Iíve read like that was The Wise Mans Fear and Iím positive that the author cribbed those sections from drafts where the protagonist was older.

Do not give anyone the benefit of the doubt on this, gently caress anything that sexualizes underage characters. (Hi I'm having a moral panic because what the gently caress)

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002



Finished Peter F. Hamilton's Salvation series

The first one was really good, interweaving stories. The last two were pretty good but a lot more focused on the stuff that wasn't the best part of book 1.

Overall I'd recommend at least the first book, and all 3 depending on how you felt about the future-set stories in the first one.

kurona_bright
Mar 21, 2013


mllaneza posted:

Nothing really. It's a slow-paced romance left to develop organically in a reasonably interesting world. I only read the first two, but Mom liked the series. You might too.

And it was definitely better than The Spirit Ring.

Is this aimed at a general 'you'? My original post said I already read the series

Also, I think the third book is probably my favorite out of the series, and imo a definite improvement over the second, which I found very slow. I think I'm blaming that on the central romance being pleasant but not exactly interesting. Like, I think the main obstacle about their relationship is just everybody else trying to force them apart -- entirely external. Did they ever have a big argument about anything in the series?

kurona_bright fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Apr 8, 2021

Apparatchik Magnet
Sep 25, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


StrixNebulosa posted:

Do not give anyone the benefit of the doubt on this, gently caress anything that sexualizes underage characters.

So 13 and below, if we assume that Italy and Germany arenít basket cases who can be disregarded.

And 12 and below at the time many of the books in the US were written, if we can consider the laws of a dozen or so states dispositive. We really have had a moral panic, Iím amazed that everyone has moved to 16+ in the last 20 years in the US. I blame the old Olsen twins tracker.

Apparatchik Magnet fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Apr 8, 2021

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Apparatchik Magnet posted:

So 13 and below, if we assume that Italy and Germany arenít basket cases who can be disregarded.

And 12 and below at the time many of the books in the US were written, if we can consider the laws of a dozen or so states dispositive. We really have had a moral panic, Iím amazed that everyone has moved to 16+ in the last 20 years in the US. I blame the old Olsen twins tracker.

Um, what exactly are you trying to say here?

Jaxyon
Mar 6, 2016
boring as hell and also can be low-key racist

HopperUK posted:

Um, what exactly are you trying to say here?

I feel like we're being slow walked into a libertarian discussion.

Or maybe fast-walked.

Apparatchik Magnet
Sep 25, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


HopperUK posted:

Um, what exactly are you trying to say here?

Iím trying to figure out what ďunderageĒ means. Young, ignorant, and generally physically and psychologically repulsive goons probably donít have a good grasp of normal human sexuality today, in the recent past, and in both their own and similar cultures.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Apparatchik Magnet posted:

Iím trying to figure out what ďunderageĒ means.

No you aren't.

Apparatchik Magnet
Sep 25, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


HopperUK posted:

No you aren't.

Of course I am. Whether any of these literary examples actually are underage is an uncertain question depending on time, place, and culture.

Are the Hadiths guilty of sexualizing young girls? Very much so if these books are, so we perhaps shouldnít rush to judgment.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Apparatchik Magnet posted:

Of course I am. Whether any of these literary examples actually are underage is an uncertain question depending on time, place, and culture.

Are the Hadiths guilty of sexualizing young girls? Very much so if these books are, so we perhaps shouldnít rush to judgment.

Why the gently caress would you bring religious texts into things? We're talking about how fantasy books have a tendency to be loving creepy about very young girls.

Apparatchik Magnet
Sep 25, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


HopperUK posted:

Why the gently caress would you bring religious texts into things? We're talking about how fantasy books have a tendency to be loving creepy about very young girls.

Thereís at least one well known Muslim fantasy author. If he puts in an homage to Mohammed and Aisha is he being ďloving creepyĒ? Isnít judging that sort of age difference as a bright line judgment inherently anti-Muslim bigotry or at least shockingly provincial and an example of intellectual colonialism? I expected better of this community.

Apparatchik Magnet fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Apr 8, 2021

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Apparatchik Magnet posted:

Thereís at least one well known Muslim fantasy author. If he puts in an homage to Mohammahed and Aisha is he being ďloving creepyĒ? Isnít judging that sort of age difference as a bright line judgment inherently anti-Muslim bigotry? I expected better of this community.

gently caress you.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


I'm sorry I mentioned Snow Crash; I didn't mean to open this .

Apparatchik Magnet
Sep 25, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


HopperUK posted:

gently caress you.

I assure, Iím old enough to satisfy the conscience of everyone here.

quantumfoam
Dec 25, 2003



Please stop replying to the thread troll, thanks in advance.

Hit another hiatus on the SFL Archives readthrough attempt. All the creepy stuff being mentioned in this thread for the past 2 pages has been lauded as the height of deep and interesting writing by 1980s & 1990s SFL Archives people.

LotR chat: Dennis L. McKiernan wrote a bunch of obvious (he says so while discussing the books) Tolkien knockoff books, however there is also a weird & bizarre & forgotten Russian continuation of the LotR series called 300 Years Later.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




quantumfoam posted:

Please stop replying to the thread troll, thanks in advance.


Yeah sorry everyone, I didn't know this person before, thought at first they made an honest fumble of words and wanted to get to the bottom of it. :/

Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007



HopperUK posted:

Yeah sorry everyone, I didn't know this person before, thought at first they made an honest fumble of words and wanted to get to the bottom of it. :/

the username is basically 'lefty triggerer'. Not blaming you, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt too.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Oh that's the 'women can't be harassed if they're ugly' guy. Pedophilia Defending less of a surprise.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Apparatchik Magnet
Sep 25, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


General Battuta posted:

Oh that's the 'women can't be harassed if they're ugly' guy.

No, I was the "it is surprising to me that there are guys desperate or sad enough to hit on ugly women" guy. But clearly some of you were more in tune with that demographic.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply