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Zushio
May 8, 2008
I ran in to a troll who was running around an Unrestricted Match in a Lv. 1 GM Trainer. I figured it out right away so when he came for me I just staggered him first and left. After 5 times I got kicked from the game for bad team play. So... just let trolls get themselves kicked I guess?

Either way proposed new thread title

"Gundam Battle Operation - Pubbies So Bad They Can't Even Troll"

Alternatively,

"Gundam Battle Operation - Pubbies So Bad They Don't Even Need To Troll"

I cannot stress enough how important a good team to play with is. It's almost as bad as solo queuing in Leage or something.

Also, join Red Haven (Rh), etc. etc.

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Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005

I went from C+ to D+ in ground tonight trying to get 2 wins. When this game shits on you it loving shits on you. My 2nd win was a complete fluke in winning a 4v5 by the skin of our teeth.

Numlock
May 19, 2007

The simplest seppo on the forums
Wait is there team dmg in this game? I’m so so very sorry random pubbie dudes I’ve shot in the back...

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Numlock posted:

Wait is there team dmg in this game? I’m so so very sorry random pubbie dudes I’ve shot in the back...

There isn't, but you can knock over or stun teammates with certain attacks

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Numlock posted:

Wait is there team dmg in this game? I’m so so very sorry random pubbie dudes I’ve shot in the back...

You can't actually hurt allies with your attacks, but you can stagger them and knock them down, which is usually a really great way to hand the enemy they're fighting a ton of free damage or even a kill. It's something to avoid at all costs.

I lost an ace match earlier today in the last 10 seconds of a match because I had knocked down the enemy ace and was about to finish him when an ally accidentally smacked me in the back with a bazooka while trying to shoot the downed ace, thus staggering me and buying the ace time to reach his invuln recovery frames and boost behind cover.

This isn't to say that you shouldn't gang up on enemies and pile on extra damage, since you *absolutely* should, but be conscious of your firing angles when using staggering weapons and be conscious of your melee hitboxes when melee swinging in a crowded fight. It's better to give up a little damage than risk boning an ally/saving the enemy.

Kanos fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Oct 23, 2019

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
God I really love the Level 3 Armored GM in 350 point games. Since it can fit the Level 3 Modified Machine Gun, it can drop an absolutely absurd amount of damage. Combined with its high maneuverability even going backwards I can usually get raids to try and close with me and never quite get there. Having Grenade and dodge rolls as a backup certainly doesn't hurt. It's really just the perfect machine for me, and it may very well be my favorite MS in the game.

Zushio
May 8, 2008
I think support fire hurts anything it hits.

LuiCypher
Apr 24, 2010

Today I'm... amped up!

Pale Rider Cavalry is really goddamn good. The gatling melts enemy suits, and when that's reloading you still have a missile launcher and a one-shot gently caress-off beam rifle. Haven't even touched HADES mode yet either.

drrockso20 posted:

A suit can only equip a weapon up to it's own level, so a lvl 1 suit can't use a higher level gun

Unless you're playing an unrestricted point match. I've had a Lvl 2 Gundam use a Lvl 4 Hyper Hammer in those. Which is weird because there's no Lvl 4 suit to use a Lvl 4 Hyper Hammer?

LuiCypher fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Oct 23, 2019

LuiCypher
Apr 24, 2010

Today I'm... amped up!

Edit: Double post

Numlock
May 19, 2007

The simplest seppo on the forums
Can you counter a tackle?

I’ve tried to do so a few times but ether I’m not pulling off the timing correctly or should I be dodging instead?

PS friend Acelockon if you don’t mind carrying a scrub who only plays Zakus and Zaku adjacent suits.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008


Gravy Boat 2k
I'm bad at this game

Airspace
Nov 5, 2010
So how balanced are suits? I know about the triangle, what I'm wondering is how bad the normal Zaku I I have in my garage is. If I got a higher level one that was 200/250 cost and slapped a bazooka on it, would that be competitive with the other 200/250 cost suits?

Everywhere I've seen the answer is 'no' but I figured I'd ask here and get more information than just 'The Zaku I is bad and you should be banned for piloting it'.

Numlock
May 19, 2007

The simplest seppo on the forums
I’ve only been playing this game for a week and it seems to me player skill and staying grouped up has more to do with winning than which suit your using. MS at the same point level seem balanced to me, but there are suits that punch above their weight class at any given point level for sure.

Sure if your trying to run a 100 point lvl 1 MS in a 250+ point sortie you are going to have your face smashed in constantly, stick to 200 point sorties where you are only playing at a disadvantage instead of being hopelessly out classed.

Edit: before I understood what I was doing i was that guy doing unrestricted ranked matches in a 100 point mech and some players got mad at me about it. Understandable even though I don’t think my team lost any matches.

Numlock fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Oct 23, 2019

Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005

The only suit I outright groan at seeing so far is the GP02. That shield is loving stupid.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE

Oh Snapple! posted:

The only suit I outright groan at seeing so far is the GP02. That shield is loving stupid.

Have you seen the GM Guard Custom.

Picnic Lunch
May 1, 2006

Damn tailgaters
Biscuit Hider

Valhawk posted:

Have you seen the GM Guard Custom.

Yea this thing is stupid. The shield is huge and has so much life and they just laser me to death while I plink off their shield.

Numlock
May 19, 2007

The simplest seppo on the forums

Oh Snapple! posted:

The only suit I outright groan at seeing so far is the GP02. That shield is loving stupid.

I randomly got a Lvl 3 Zaku Sniper and when I took it out for a spin I ran into those things and yeah, they are some bullshit.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
A Level 3 Zaku II is perfectly good in 200-point missions. The trade off is usually between utility (useful gimmicks) and damage. The higher level a suit is, the more powerful the guns it can equip, meaning that even the crappiest, dinkiest suits have value if their level is high enough to match the point limit. A Level 5 Zaku might not be as high-performance as your Rick Dom, but it can equip Level 5 weapons while you're at Level 1, and those will really hurt.

Zushio
May 8, 2008
The Zaku 1 GS they give you is really good, as is the Zudah at low costs.

Fighting at 200-250 the only suit I've found to be just better than others is the Gouf for its 3 hit melee at 250. Everything else is pretty balanced I feel, but GM Kai or Zaku 2 is usually the answer unless you want something more specialized.

Team play is so critical for some of the lighter stuff, without proper support the Light Armor GM might as well be a paper bag, but if you have a good team it is devastating. It's Beam Gun is 3x more powerful than any other hand weapon those low level units get.

Zushio fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Oct 23, 2019

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009
What's the draw for the GM Kai at 200? It's worse than the GM Trainer in basically every way.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Lemon-Lime posted:

What's the draw for the GM Kai at 200? It's worse than the GM Trainer in basically every way.

It has a shield and access to the Double Beam Gun and the Hyper Bazooka[Enhanced]. The Trainer is easier to pilot and get results out of but the Kai isn't horrible or anything.

Zushio
May 8, 2008
Oh yeah, the GM Trainer is good too. Dodge AND Combo controller at 200 is absurd. I just feel the shield has it's benefits and I like that Double Beam Gun. I think it also allows for a better spectrum of expansion parts, the Trainer really gets shafted there.

Also, I can't land shots for poo poo from the Bazooka type weapons.

Zushio fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Oct 23, 2019

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Zushio posted:

The Zaku 1 GS they give you is really good, as is the Zudah at low costs.

Fighting at 200-250 the only suit I've found to be just better than others is the Gouf for its 3 hit melee at 250. Everything else is pretty balanced I feel, but GM Kai or Zaku 2 is usually the answer unless you want something more specialized.

Team play is so critical for some of the lighter stuff, without proper support the Light Armor GM might as well be a paper bag, but if you have a good team it is devastating. It's Beam Gun is 3x more powerful than any other hand weapon those low level units get.

The Zaku I GS has a lot of weird problems that make it a questionable suit compared to competing options. Its toolkit screams "flanking general"(smoke, a panzerfaust, heat sword, a decent-sized shield), but it's slower than many other 300s and lacks melee combo controller to actually leverage having a superior melee weapon. I really don't see any reason to play it besides aesthetics when you have the Efreet sitting right there at the same cost and doing basically the same thing but much better in terms of "stagger and melee" generals, or the HiMo Zaku being a far, far superior shooty suit.

The 200-250 raid bracket is very thin on the ground. The Gouf is alright but suffers badly from a terrible machine gun and lacking any form of reliable ranged stagger outside of the heat rod, which is massively difficult to reliably hit with and also paints a giant target on your face during use. The Zaku I lacks maneuver armor or emergency evasion so it's honestly just lacking all around. The Zudah exists at 250 and is good, but is a counter sniper rather than a traditional flanking stabby raid. The Acguy is kind of a piece of poo poo - it's got stealth and solid ranged options but is made of tinfoil and beefs it to blue bazookas for free because all of its actual weapons require standing still. The GM Light Armor is probably the best of the lot, boasting good performance, maneuver armor, and an actually decent ranged poking tool in the rifle, though it does struggle with ranged stagger.

Kanos fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Oct 23, 2019

Zushio
May 8, 2008

Kanos posted:

I really don't see any reason to play it besides aesthetics when you have the Efreet sitting right there at the same cost and doing basically the same thing but much better in terms of "stagger and melee" generals, or the HiMo Zaku being a far, far superior shooty suit.

I have good results with the GS simply because it is so non-specialized. While you certainly can't lead a charge very well or solo with it, it makes for excellent work in full team fight. It keeps the damage pretty constant and provides solid cover for weaker teamates like Supports. I also use to intercept melee attacks for allies a lot because I'm so close to the team. Doesn't matter if you hit them from the back while they are swinging at someone else, you still trigger the counter. Plus if you do get an opportunity to tag someone with the Heat Sabre it is pretty damaging. I pretty much only pull it out during pursuits and when I see an enemy topple. And Evade is always nice. Certainly not a hero suit, but a solid soldier one for sure. Which is my playstyle in general.

I also don't have either of those better options yet.

Zushio fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Oct 23, 2019

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009
The lack of melee combo controller on the GM Kai just kills it for me, sadly, which is a shame because it's my second favourite MS design in all of Gundam. :rip:

Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005

Valhawk posted:

Have you seen the GM Guard Custom.

Less than the GP02, weirdly! Even then it's been annoying but not to the same degree.

Anyway tonight I got weirdly happy at getting a Guncannon from a silver crate? 450, too, so I guess I got my new high cost support.

I also threw a pull at the supply drop and got the Psycommu Zaku which, good lord, looks utterly ridiculous so I hope it's good.

Anora
Feb 16, 2014

I fuckin suck!🪠
I got a level 4 GM Cannon and a level 3 machine gun for it and now this game is fine

OxMan
May 13, 2006

COME SEE
GRAVE DIGGER
LIVE AT MONSTER TRUCK JAM 2KXX



I dig the psycommu. It doesn't hit too hard, but has a good up close damaging attack and has 2 weapons that you lock on and let go of and get into cover. The DPS is poor but as long as you hang behind cover you're doing a little bit of free damage all the time. People really really hate it.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled
The Psycommu Zaku actually does bonkers insane DPS, though all of it comes from the finger cannons. The Incoms are mostly harassment tools and filler; your big whammy comes from meat shotting people a couple of times with your insane damage finger shotguns and then giving them a 4k+ axe handle with your down melee when they stagger.

Zushio
May 8, 2008
Pulled the Gerbera Tetra and 5 other suits in the new banner. Status:Happy

OxMan
May 13, 2006

COME SEE
GRAVE DIGGER
LIVE AT MONSTER TRUCK JAM 2KXX



Kanos posted:

The Psycommu Zaku actually does bonkers insane DPS, though all of it comes from the finger cannons. The Incoms are mostly harassment tools and filler; your big whammy comes from meat shotting people a couple of times with your insane damage finger shotguns and then giving them a 4k+ axe handle with your down melee when they stagger.

It's so fragile I get scared to get close to anything in a pile. I harass from a distance then let the fingers free when they're chasing me. There's something wonky that goes on with non legged/non sword MSs and melee counters. You can counter straight side wipes at 120 degree angles but when I try it with the gigan or psycommu I get wrecked.

Zushio
May 8, 2008
You really have to bait out the melee for the counter. When I actually do one, which is becoming more frequent, it's such a Newtype moment. Just a feeling that says hit the tackle now rather than any actual plan. Also, countering someone trying to melee an ally never gets old and I am super good at doing that on purpose.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009
90% of the time counters happen because of the questionable netcode and laggy players, and the counter animation actually happens after I've hit with my melee attack.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled
So I'm bored so I figured I'd type up a short guide to free/easy-to-obtain suits for new or lost players to look into.

Skills to Look Out For: There's a lot of MS skills, but there's a few that are hugely transformative in how a suit operates and are worth paying attention to if a suit has it or not.
Melee Combo Controller: Allows you to string together multiple hits in a combo based on level and also increases melee damage on single hits. Melee is an important tool for most suits even without it, but combo controller makes it much easier and more profitable.
Emergency Evasion: Most commonly located on generals, this skill is what enables the dodge roll(double tap boost in a direction) which gives you invuln frames. This is super important because it's pretty much the only way to escape a combo if somebody beans you with a stagger and goes in for melee. Level 1 costs your whole boost bar and overheats you, Level 2 costs about 80%. A suit without EE has to be extremely careful about engagement ranges to avoid being stagger comboed.
Maneuver Armor: Most commonly found on raids, this skill lets you shrug off a single stagger while boosting(NOT a dodge maneuver, a sustained boost). This is what allows skilled raid players to punch in to generals and deny supports the ability to defend themselves; read their bazooka/cannon shot and maneuver armor through it, leaving them helpless to resist your own stagger combo.
Forced Injector: Starts appearing from 300 cost up. This is the slick maneuvers skill - it lets you cancel boost movements directly into other boost movements, allowing you to do unpredictable zigzag movements or double dodges that allow you to gently caress with enemy predictive targeting. It's definitely hard to get a handle on because it's easy to overheat yourself if you use it willy nilly, but it's pretty gross once you get a handle on it.
AMBAC: Only relevant in space, but it's a really big deal there. A suit without AMBAC in space has to kind of brake to a halt after every movement, making your movement kind of halting and juddery. AMBAC nullifies that need, allowing you to move completely freely without delay. Assuming equal speed and boosters, a suit with AMBAC has a huge maneuverability advantage over a suit without in space.

Suits to Look Out For: I'll be sticking to suits that you can get from the DP shop at Corporal or below or that are given out for free, since gacha is evil and fucks some people over(like me) really badly. If a suit is solid across multiple tiers by buying leveled up versions, I'll try to include it.

200:
  • GM Light Armor(Raid): Kind of your only real option at this cost. It's got decent performance, maneuver armor, and a decent poke with its stripped beam rifle. Your biggest issue in this suit is going to be that 200 is infested with blue bazookas that will eat your lunch, but you're pretty much the only strong answer to yellow stacks.
  • GM Trainer(General): The tutorial suit, but it's really great. Emergency Evasion, Melee Combo Controller, and very strong performance combine into a reliable suit that comfortably dominates the cost; basically the only problem is lacking a shield. Slap a bazooka on it and you're playing the meta.
  • Zaku Cannon(Support): Handles like a beached whale and slow as molasses, but pumps out a ludicrous amount of damage when equipped with an MMP-80 machine gun and rips the bluezookas that infest 200 to shreds. The key to this suit is that it's not much of a sniper; it can score some long range cannon hits, but it operates best at mid-range with a machine gun as its primary damage source while using the cannon primarily for staggering purposes. As a bonus, the Zaku Cannon scales up the next couple of cost categories admirably, so it's a solid investment.
  • GM Cannon(Support): Recently buffed to not be a joke suit, the GM Cannon now compares decently to the Zaku Cannon. It's a little more fragile but a little faster, trades the smoke for a shield, and has beam spray gun access for more precise shooting at the cost of not having anything to match the MMP-80's firepower.

250:
  • Gouf(Raid): The Gouf is decent. It's got extremely high melee damage for the cost range and melee combo controller 2, meaning that if you connect with the melee it's going to loving HURT. That said, your ranged option is kind of a joke, and the heat rod is very difficult to use but is your only ranged stagger option. Playing Gouf requires you to get decent at either landing the heat rod or landing raw melee, both which can be kind of tough against skilled enemies. That said, the payoff is definitely high.
  • Zudah(Raid): An odd duck of a suit; despite being a raid, the Zudah is designed as a shooting-focused counter sniper utilizing its semi-unique anti-ship rifle. Hugely damaging and annoying with said rifle, relatively unimpressive without.
  • Zaku II Kai(General): A very solid and balanced all around suit with no real weaknesses. It can carry a bazooka for stagger melee combos or an MMP-80[GN] for high DPS machine gunning and pull off both roles solidly. Basically the only downside to it is that heat hawk melee kind of sucks, but that's a common Zeonic suit problem.
  • GM Command: The GM Trainer of 250+. Great performance, bazooka access, all the fixin's. The choice between this and the Zaku II Kai largely boils down to whether you like machine gunning or bazookas more; if you prefer MGs, go with the Zaku. If you prefer bazooka melee, the GM Command is the superior choice.
  • MP Guntank: The first tank type MS, these types are unique. They have quite fast ground movement, but basically zero thruster capacity, and are nearly hopeless at defending themselves in close quarters. The tradeoff is that this is the first real artillery platform of the game, boasting powerful double cannons and cluster bomb launchers that can be cycled to gently caress enemies up fiercely at long ranges. Finding a good vantage point and hunkering down with this guy makes you a nightmare, but watch out for flanking raids.
  • GM Light Armor(Raid), Zaku Cannon/GM Cannon(Support)

300:
  • GM Striker(Raid): Whew boy. This suit...exists? The 300 raid tier is kind of dire because suits in this cost tier take a huge step up in quality and several generals get introduced that utterly dunk on raids, so it's hard to play raid well here, and the Striker doesn't help. It's stuck with an MG, which means it has no reliable way to stagger at range, which means you need to land raw melee. The beam spear is at least super long and can poke from shocking distances, allowing you to follow up with your beam saber. It's okay, I guess, but definitely has a curve to it.
  • Ground Gundam(General): The plain toast of 300s, but rock solid all the same. Rock solid performance, a half-decent chargeable beam rifle, and bazooka access make it a fine generalist for however you want to use it. Its unique flash bomb is another close range stagger, which allows it to edge around maneuver armor and seriously bully people and defend itself shockingly well. Also has the semi-rare personnel radar skill, allowing you to spot pesky cappers/bombers on your radar.
  • Efreet(General): The Efreet is the primary reason why 300 is a nightmare for raids. Boasting the rare shotgun weapon, the Efreet has what amounts to a hitscan stagger at close ranges that hits multiple times, bypassing maneuver armor completely and opening you up to getting gutted like a fish by its extremely potent melee. As an added bonus, it also has smoke, so you frequently can't tell where it is! The Efreet is a close combat expert par excellance, a superb flanker, a great bodyguard unit for your supports, and an all around superior mobile suit for an absolute loving pittance of DP relative to how good it is. If you like close combat it's one of the best investments you'll ever make.
  • High Mobility(HiMo) Zaku(General): If the Efreet is the close combat king and the Ground Gundam is the generalist, the HiMo Zaku is the shooting specialist of the 300 generals. Boasting a titanic ranged stat, access to the unique Simplified Missile Launcher weapon(which is effectively four bazookas taped together that fires in 4 shot volleys), and ludicrously powerful Cracker grenades with giant blast radii, the HiMo is a fearsome midranged combatant that can put on huge amounts of pressure. It's also fast as gently caress and unbelievably maneuverable, being the lowest cost unit in the game to boast Forced Injector.
  • GM Sniper Custom(Support): An odd duck of a suit, but strong. This suit performs two roles based on primary weapon choice. With the default R-4 Beam Rifle, it's a precision sniper that likes to play at long ranges. With the Double Beam Gun, it's a horrifyingly deadly short to midrange skirmisher that piles on ludicrous amounts of DPS at the cost of lacking the ability to stagger opponents; this makes it extremely powerful when working in tandem with general teammates who make openings for you, but terrible at solo operations. Both playstyles are viable based on map and team composition, though a team with a double beam gun GM Sniper Custom will probably want a more conventional support as well.
  • Ground Gundam[WR](Support): The same equipment loadout as the Ground Gundam, but with EE/Combo controller swapped out for standard support skills(radar extensions) and with the main weapon swapped for a powerful 180mm cannon. The WR is a sniper through and through, delivering pinpoint accurate powerful shots at long ranges. Unlike most supports, it's also very good at defending itself in close quarters, since it maintains the flash bomb. One of the safest and best supports at this cost, period.
  • MP Guncannon(Support): If you prefer a more mid-ranged approach, the MP Guncannon is sort of like the evolution of the Zaku Cannon. It has powerful shoulder cannons for long ranged fire support and brutal machine gun damage to help out, especially once you upgrade to the dual MGs. It's very vulnerable to being attacked, so watch your positioning and you can pump out incredible DPS.
  • Zudah, GM Command, Zaku II Kai, MP Guntank

Above 300 you start needing decently high ranks to buy stuff in the DP shop, so I think I'll stop here. I can go on with my musings on that stuff if people want, though.

LuiCypher
Apr 24, 2010

Today I'm... amped up!

To anyone on the fence sick of being in the salt mines - stick with the game. So much of getting better at the game is tied to experience rather than twitch reflex/skill. Things that can help you along the way include:
  • Try to take a suit as close to the maximum possible cost, give or take 50 points (so in a 450 point game take a 450/400 cost suit). Every 100-point tier usually carries a significant number of advantages over the previous tier, whether it's through sheer statistics or the suits available to you (which may carry skills that lower-tier suits don't have access to).
  • Taking something undercost when you're learning the game seems like a good idea (because then you're not going to tank your team as hard when you inevitably feed), but it's a trap - you will wind up feeding the enemy team more and you won't be able to put out enough damage/flinches when needed. In essence, taking an undercost suit is putting your team a man down (which can cost you the game). Take a chance - feel proud - roll with the cost limit suit.
  • The most important skill that you learn as a player is situational awareness, and you only learn this by playing the game. To develop it, remember to keep an eye on your radar when the action isn't too hectic to get a sense of where the enemy is at all time. Learning all the little details of the common rulesets is also part of situational awareness. I've seen teams that were completely outmatched in terms of skill and killing ability win battles because they knew that planting a bomb at the enemy base was worth a shitload of points during the last two minutes of a General Match and played accordingly.
  • Engage with at least one or more teammates. Only morons think they can come out on top in a 1v2 situation. Note that this doesn't mean you have to be right next to them, just able to respond to threats together - for example, you can also engage enemies with your teammates by flanking them.
  • Melee gangbangs look like a lot of fun, but it's generally a bad idea to have more than one suit engage a single enemy in melee. You'll usually wind up staggering the poo poo out of each other because most players will default to their horizontal slash (because hey, netcode can be bad) or the knockdown slash. This will usually end with the suit you're trying to kill managing to get away or the enemy supports shelling the poo poo out of you because you're all bunched up.
  • What you can do instead is flank and provide ranged supporting fire - then you force the enemy player to either commit to the melee or try to disengage. But because you're already peppering them with ranged fire and not getting your rear end knocked on the ground by your ally, you stand a much greater chance of actually killing them when they run away because you never stopped engaging them.
  • When you get destroyed, use the respawn time to quickly reflect on how you died. Did you get slaughtered in a 4v1? You probably overextended/dove when you shouldn't have (sometimes though you just have a bad team that fades away the moment they encounter resistance). Did you die in a 1v1 honorabru duel? Your enemy may have been your hard counter, or they just knew how to use their toolset appropriately. Were you killed by supporting fire? Try to pay attention the next time your enemy uses supporting fire and scatter a bit from teammates when you see the notice.

Numlock
May 19, 2007

The simplest seppo on the forums
What is a bluezooka?

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Numlock posted:

What is a bluezooka?

A slang term for a General(blue class) suit using a bazooka. "General with a Bazooka" is the most common archetype in the game so it's a contraction that gets used a bunch.

LuiCypher
Apr 24, 2010

Today I'm... amped up!

Numlock posted:

What is a bluezooka?

e: f,b

Generally though, a bazooka is a really good set-up weapon but overall poor in terms of being a damage dealer. Bazookas will almost always cause an opponent to flinch or stagger when they hit, which opens them up to getting melee'd or getting shot by a Support suit - their main threat is the consequences that you face as a result of said stagger. In terms of dealing damage however, their low fire rate, low projectile speed, and higher damage per shot means that they're very bad at dealing consistent damage from range unless you're very skilled, as misses are very punishing.

From a pure DPS perspective, machine guns will pretty much always win out against a bazooka - it's low damage per shot, but they're shooting a lot of bullets and they do it with an aim assist which drastically reduces the effectiveness of ADAD spam (which is quickly moving left-right-left-right to try to juke ranged attacks and exploit lag, so named because A and D are typically bound to Strafe Left and Strafe Right respectively when using a mouse+keyboard combo to play a shooter). But machine guns only stagger once they hit an opponent a decent number of times, which gives the enemy time to evade or hit you with a staggering attack to set up their own combo.

Therefore, depending on what primary weapon you equip your suit will have different engagement ranges. Suits with bazookas typically want to stay close to both reduce the enemy's ability to dodge the shot and to be close enough to switch to melee to exploit the stagger. Suits with machine guns typically want to stay a little further back to increase the number of times they hit the enemy to stagger them before they can get close enough to wombo-combo them. The game understands this and deliberately misleads you a bit by giving bazooka much more range than machine guns, although this does allow suits equipped with them to still be able to contribute at a greater range as well.

I don't really know enough about beam weapons since I don't have too many suits equipped with them, but I imagine that they prefer to stay a little further back than even machine guns.

LuiCypher fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Oct 24, 2019

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled
There's a few different types of beam weapons. The most common type are beam rifles such as the Ground Gundam's, the Gundam's, and the Gelgoog's; these normally fire a modestly powerful shot with good range, perfect accuracy, and high projectile speed that does not stagger. However, you can hold down the button and "focus" the rifle until the crosshairs close in; this dramatically boosts the power of the shot and allows it to stagger. These kinds of rifles give you a lot of precision damage and stagger ability at the cost of rate of fire, since they need to be charged. They also tend to lose badly to bazookas in close quarters, since eating a stagger kills your charge(and thus your ability to stagger the opponent), so they want to play at further ranges most of the time to take advantage of their accuracy and projectile speed. Beam snipers like the Guncannon's and the GM Sniper's tend to be variants on this model of rifle, usually gaining more range at the cost of mobility.

The second most common type, Beam Spray Guns, are simply fire and forget damage dealers with no stagger ability. Their DPS tends to be extremely high but doing damage is -all- they're doing and their range tends to be mediocre, meaning that they require some finesse to use.

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brainwrinkle
Oct 18, 2009

What's going on in here?
Buglord
I tried out the Zaku II Heavy Arms (level 3, 300 points) last night. It's fun! However, I'm not convinced that it's very good at the 300 level. I can see it working much better at 200 or 250.

I found that the missiles were good at fairly close range after a stagger. If you manage to hit with all 6, you're looking at 3-4k damage. It's a nice alternative to a melee combo that most people don't expect.

The main problem I had was being loving slow. At 88 speed, if a Raid notices you, you're kinda screwed. You can't sit back and snipe either, so stick like molasses to a general buddy/lifeguard.

It is very fun to poo poo out 250 damage machine gun bullets to any general suit in range though. I suspect it might work better with the MMP-80 instead of the default Zaku machine gun for faster staggers. I don't have that weapon unlocked yet.

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