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With every passing movie and show, Star Wars feels smaller, not bigger. Star Trek has been having this problem since Voyager too. We don't introduce new things. We bring back things you like and say "remember this, you loving dork? You like Jawas. You like Boba Fett. You like Yoda. Give us money for showing you things you remember." Last Jedi dared to have a message about leaving all that behind and people went loving apoplectic because every man in the movie gets dunked on by a woman.
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Nov 16, 2019 04:57
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jivjov posted:They...didn't? The movies have been, at worst, pretty good. It's also one of like two Star Wars movies not to take place in part on a desert planet. It was visually different as well as thematically. It grew the saga in ways in desperately needed. And people hated that, because it wasn't "oh, hey, it's that thing I know again!" But also because women were smart and heroic and men were wrong a lot. It's easily one of the best Star Wars movies. This show is good, and I like it, but again, it's shrinking Star Wars back into "remember the things you liked?" Desert planet. Boba Fett. Yoda. Jedi. Mos Eisley. We've done all this before, and it's being done well, but it's like a greatest hits album. It isn't embarrassing like seeing the "you better watch yourself" guy in Rogue One, but it's playing the same song. Ash1138 posted:i really like how the mando is a crack shot, is pretty good in a brawl and generally fearless, but isn't some unstoppable death machine. maybe he will be later if he gets a full suit of beskar, but even then, beasts in star wars are still a threat Mandrel posted:Star Wars is not and has never been some hallowed deep thought series about trying new things and pushing boundaries clown shoes posted:I don't understand this timeline. Why is Boba Fett an adult but Yoda a baby? But you'd be forgiven for thinking so, because this show does nothing to tell people who aren't obsessed with Star Wars that this isn't the case. It's incredibly sloppy in that sense.
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Nov 16, 2019 06:28
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MrFlibble posted:Keep saying this again and again and eventually you might actually convince yourself that this is actually the reason people dislike Last Jedi. Edit: you also edited out the part of my post that made it clear those bullshit arguments were secondary to a whole thing I wrote a big post about, so basically, I don't care what you have to say about anything anymore. LividLiquid fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Nov 16, 2019 |
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Nov 16, 2019 06:45
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Exactly. And I want to reiterate that I do like this show. I just don't like how it's making Star Wars feel smaller again after Last Jedi laid the groundwork for growing it in ways it desperately needs in order to keep being viable as a property to all but a small group of obsessive fans.
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Nov 16, 2019 07:17
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Mandrel posted:full disclosure i havent read any of this argument but im guessing
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Nov 16, 2019 09:10
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It'd be a lot easier to not argue about The Last Jedi in this unrelated thread if people didn't go out of their way to say they hated that movie when saying they love this show. Like, you can say like a thing without telling us you hate something else.
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Nov 24, 2019 02:10
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FBS posted:This show is great. The worst thing about it so far is that two dudes in the desert rebuilding a starship that's had half the hull disassembled by Jawas really seemed implausible.
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Nov 25, 2019 21:05
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teagone posted:I'm not trying to gatekeep on how to watch shows or anything like that, because it's fine to be critical about logical inconsistencies in whatever you're watching. And sure, it can be fun to poke and prod said inconsistencies and think of other ways the story could have been told. But yeah, letting any kind of technical lapses affect one's own enjoyment of whatever narrative content that they're ingesting comes off as missing the point imo: which is that a story is being told—not a documentary—that entails its own narrative goals. When you watch things looking for things to complain about, you're engaging with insecurity. The need to feel smarter than the creators of the things you're trying to enjoy does not make you so. And worse yet, you will never enjoy absolutely anything because you'll be too busy looking for ways to feel smart. The funny thing is, it wasn't learning more about film that made me stop, though that didn't hurt. It was the sheer number of useless people in film school who do this showing me how annoying I must've been to be so angry and judgmental about things I could never hope to make myself. They'll read scripts or watch student films and fixate on an unimportant detail or willfully misunderstand important ones and then loudly announce to everybody that the thing you made is bad because the toothpaste tube in the heroin addict's bathroom was brand new and unopened. And whether you explain back to them that this was a deliberate choice made for whatever reason or you tell them the toothpaste is unimportant entirely, their goal isn't to help. It's to feel smart. By tearing people down. And these people never, never, never make anything good. Or in many cases, anything at all. They want you to write their script for them. They tell you they're a "big picture person," making you the small picture person doing all the real work. They'll pitch you movies you've already seen and when you point that out, in a move of pure projection, they tell you that you just want to tear things down. To the man they all want to direct, but don't have any idea what that means, because they think it's just telling everybody what you want and then yelling at them when you don't get it, completely misunderstanding that the captain of a ship has to understand the jobs of literally everybody else on said ship and the ins and outs of the ship itself. They'll have no idea how to talk to the DP and they never, ever storyboard anything. If you're lucky enough to get a shot list out of them, they'll hand you 40 shots to do in three hours. When you explain that it can't be done, they yell at you. They all love Quentin Tarantino and when you try to teach them good principles of filmmaking, they say "Quentin breaks rules all the time," again not understanding that Tarantino knows every single principle of filmmaking inside and out so he can break them effectively. So they spend two-to-four years telling the people they themselves are paying to teach them that they don't know anything useful. And they're always men and boys. Because nobody else gets rewarded for aggressive mediocrity to the point that they have a clear path to become this person. So, yeah, if something egregiously breaks its own rules? You're allowed to notice that and not like it. But don't be this person.
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Nov 30, 2019 05:37
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Midgetskydiver posted:Agree that this was a fun episode but it feels like a definite change in tone. Mando up to this point has been a very reluctant hero but now he seems like the Lone Ranger which is fine, but definitely not what I was expecting after episode 2.
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Nov 30, 2019 08:14
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So your most hated Star Wars things are the only one directed by a woman and the one where all the men are wrong. Care to add a little more so we're not left to make assumptions?
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Nov 30, 2019 21:40
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I mean, if I were to criticize the episode it'd be for playing with white savior tropes a little too much, even if it divorced race from it a bunch, and that story is also a staple of ronin comes to poor village tales from feudal Japan and Star Wars has always lifted that stuff so while I rolled my eyes a number of times, I enjoyed it just fine.
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Nov 30, 2019 21:57
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Pez posted:
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Dec 1, 2019 02:12
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"You don't like something featuring someone different than you, therefore you must hate women/race" is such a tired argument.
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Pez posted:Except the post I quoted did exactly that. Also there's a difference in someone saying "this was a weak episode" and someone saying "women can't be good directors", so no need to confuse the two and cause more pointless hate in the world Like, Rey's a mary sue for knowing the force despite not being trained, but nobody gives a poo poo that a literal baby is a force master in this.
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Dec 1, 2019 04:15
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DurosKlav posted:Because the writers made them go into a giant tent with only 1 entrance and no sight lines instead of staying out in the woods tracking the AT-ST and blowing it up before the entire camp was alerted. It was just bad writing so they could have the battle in the village with the AT-ST. They should have just made it so the bandits come back on their own and they could have still had the AT-ST attacking the village. It makes a whole lot more sense than "we're gonna sneak into the enemy camp, completely ignore the AT-ST thats most likely not guarded very well, with the pilot most likely not inside, just blow up a random thing and run away despite having complete and utter surprise on our side." Its like digging a tunnel into a bank vault and instead of just waiting till night when no one is around to rob the bank you run into the front door in the middle of the day waving your guns around and then running to the vault. The things you're complaining about happened not in some Roland Emmerich "turn your brain off while the stupid happens" way. They happened in a way that is defensible from a tactical and emotional position from the characters' point of view. You're ignoring that in favor of being concerned about combat tactics in a way that, were the show to do what you like, almost nobody could enjoy it. There are ton of in-universe answers to the things that are bothering you, but none of them matter, because we're not watching somebody play a real-time strategy game and critiquing their tactics to prove we're better at the game than the characters and writers and directors like you're doing. We're watching a narrative. And those have their own structure independent of combat tactics. If we were to take your views to their logical extension, Luke Skywalker is the dumbest motherfucker on the planet because he kept losing control of himself before learning that that's what his problem was. So to your wants, he'd always be perfect. That's not interesting to watch. We saw him win, then get overconfident, then get arrogant to the point that he couldn't believe a little tiny green puppet could be a Jedi master, then falter again because he wanted to save his friends, leading to him getting his hand cut off. Sure. We could sit around and talk about this, forty years ago, and be like, "these movies suck, because the main character is clearly an idiot," but at some point, you have to realize that stories are about failure before success, and if said stories were about people being perfect all the time, they'd be snoozefests none of us would pay to see. This was a story about the Mandalorian reacting to his damage. His village was raided and he lost his family. He's filled with regret. He has the chance, here, to be the savior he always wished he had. So he takes chances nobody was there to take for him, imperfectly, because we have no time and and a lot of people to train. That's a lot more interesting than a story about a perfect being who never makes mistakes or has any motivation beyond being tactically better than everybody else. If you want to complain about the show breaking its own rules? His armor is supposed to be damned-near indestructable, but a bare-fisted punch can knock him on his rear end. That's loving stupid. The rest of it is just storytelling.
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Dec 1, 2019 08:05
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Desperado Bones posted:If it bothers you then we can all pretend Cara Dune comes from the planet Amazonia that is inhabited only by strong muscular women who can break rocks with their bare hands, so punching Mando's nearly steel is nothing. "Huh. That's kinda' dumb. Ooh! This gal is fun to watch fight."
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Dec 1, 2019 19:58
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Is there something that attracts antifeminists and misogynists to Star Wars the same way Star Trek attracts pedophiles? Like in that case, it's not that every Star Trek fan is a pedophile. It's that a sizable plurality of pedophiles love Star Trek. And that question has some answers. Does Star Wars have that? I really liked the RedLetterMedia prequel videos, and I thought everybody was in on the joke that the only kind of person who'd put this much thought into a 90 minute Star Wars review would be a hundred-and-four-year-old serial killer, but it's turning out that that wasn't a joke. RLM are coming out, very slowly, as people who hate feminists openly, and women somewhat covertly, and is that where this came from? Or has this been a thing the whole time? I'm so absurdly comforted that I can say in this thread that men who hate women are hating on Star Wars for including women both in the fiction and in the production and not be completely on my own, but there's still a contingent that gets all mad that I'd imply that could ever happen like how people get all "if you say racism is happening, you're the real racist." Star Trek also had this problem back in 1995 when Janeway became a thing, and in this woman's opinion, voyager sucked, but people blame the captain for that, like that has anything to do with it. Same with having a black captain with Deep Space Nine. It super confuses me because Princess Leia subverted the trope so hard. She made Luke and Han look like dipshits in New Hope.
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Dec 2, 2019 06:56
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I just don't get it. We were supposed to be the big tent. We were supposed to take in all the people society was rejecting. I started watching football and going to games, and it turned out to be the least toxic fandom to which I belonged. Jocks were supposed to be the assholes. Nerds were supposed to be the nice people. But once our hobbies gained mainstream acceptance, we collectively shat our pants and freaked out and decided we didn't want to be liked or accepted. What the gently caress?!
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Dec 2, 2019 07:30
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JBP posted:Nerds pulled the ladder up behind them and always hosted terrible opinions. Yeah. Nerds were never the big tent. That makes me profoundly sad and makes me not want to like any of the things I used to like. The end of Revenge of the Nerds sees the leader of the nerds rape a woman and we're supposed to root for him.
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Dec 2, 2019 07:38
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JBP posted:The things you like are moving to be more inclusive by and large (even 40k is trying lol) so just enjoy what you like and ignore the dickheads. It's the key to living a great life.
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Dec 2, 2019 08:55
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Terror Sweat posted:Lmfao
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Dec 2, 2019 19:08
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withak posted:OP watches too many movies about "nerds". Gamergate broke me of the notion entirely.
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Dec 2, 2019 22:19
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Davros1 posted:Baby Yoda's origin revealed!
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Dec 3, 2019 00:48
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Good god, Star Wars attracts the worst loving fans. A woman did something without a man stopping her to do it better! Misandry!
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Dec 3, 2019 22:05
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zoux posted:I think it’s just the one guy so far. Of course I don’t willingly expose myself to outside SW discussion I'll spare you the reaction to Last Jedi.
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Dec 3, 2019 22:35
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Firstborn posted:Continue to pretend nothing exists besides the OT. Plenty of people do it.
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Dec 4, 2019 01:14
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quote:But that one take she kicked someone, it was totally planned, but there was more contact than usual and from where I was standing looking at the monitor, I thought there was a wire on the guy. He went flying back, I thought it was a gag. I asked, “Who put a wire on that guy?” And people said that wasn’t a wire, that was the force of Gina’s kick.
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Dec 4, 2019 03:51
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Josh Lyman posted:I’m not really sure what the point of that episode was. It’s the first one that felt a bit like filler, just fanservice with the location. It was peak "hey, you disgusting nerds! Remember that thing you liked? Pay us money to show you the thing you liked again!" That said, it killed an hour just fine.
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Dec 8, 2019 00:28
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Bust Rodd posted:Hey my brother and I were discussing Baby Yoda and we started talking about the impact of the character and we wanted to ask your opinion on something, dear thread: I'd love him a lot more if he were different kind of cute baby puppet mogwai.
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Dec 8, 2019 00:42
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teagone posted:We'd never seen a baby of Yoda's species, and he drives the overarching narrative of the story, all while informing and furthering develop Mando's character. I don't think it's fair to call Baby Yoda's character being the "Hey! Remember THIS?!" kind of fanservice. He's great fanservice that's way more important than like, pit droids being used to further hammer it in that Mando hates droids. He's not just "hey, remember this." But he's "hey, remember this."
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Dec 8, 2019 01:45
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Super don't give a gently caress so long as I gets me some Ming-Na Wen.
LividLiquid fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Dec 8, 2019 |
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Dec 8, 2019 07:39
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Episode was great. Show is still great. A stupid thing is bugging me and I wish it wasn't. So Kuill said he served the empire for three human lifetimes, but the empire literally only existed for like 25 years. It's formed at the end of Revenge of the Sith when Luke and Leia are babies and they end it when they're in their twenties or early 30s. It's not like noticing a dumb thing like that ruins the whole show or anything, and as I''ve said earlier in the thread I hate the Cinema Sins style of critique, but I wish they'd nail down some of the broad strokes of the canon.
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Dec 22, 2019 01:08
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Thanks, everybody. That puts that stupid nagging feeling to bed.
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Dec 22, 2019 02:17
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cjg posted:What thread is this?
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Dec 24, 2019 01:07
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MrFlibble posted:Liking TLJ isn't a personal statement, it's a political statement - so the people who don't like it are CHUDS. Then there's the fact that troll farms, many Russian, were making GBS threads on the flick and siding with MRA douchebags and Nazis to sow division in America. https://www.wired.com/story/star-wars-russian-trolls-study/ You can love Mad Men and Rick and Morty and Scarface and Boondock Saints and Joker and Wolf of Wall Street and Catcher in the Rye and Fight Club and all of the other things regressive douchebags love, but it's also up to you to make sure people know you're not one of the fans who love them for those reasons.
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Dec 24, 2019 07:04
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Because women coming forward about widespread abuses and being punished for it is super funny, am I right everybody? gently caress this dude.
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Dec 25, 2019 01:14
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veni veni veni posted:It's a woman and calm down you are trying way too hard.
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Dec 25, 2019 01:28
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Owlbear Camus posted:Lighten up francis. It's an absurd joke about a delightful puppet getting cancelled. "What if social justice, but not taken seriously" isn't a joke. It's the status quo.
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Dec 25, 2019 04:33
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zoux posted:Thank you for your service, officer.
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Dec 25, 2019 04:45
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You all just spent Christmas eve giving a woman poo poo because she cares that people get raped, so let's not throw stones here.
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Dec 25, 2019 06:16
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Cartoon Man posted:Would a Rogue Squadron TV show be too expensive in special effects?
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Dec 31, 2019 01:40
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