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Who is the #1 Overall Pick
This poll is closed.
Anthony Edwards 17 26.98%
Cole Anthony 3 4.76%
James Wiseman 12 19.05%
LaMelo Ball 19 30.16%
Other 12 19.05%
Total: 63 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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If Cassius Winston was 2 inches taller and a year younger he'd be the number one pick in the draft rather than the 34th or wherever he'll end up.

I believe in him more strongly than you guys believe in tyus jones

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Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

MourningView posted:

I think he'll go in the first. It's less size than that he's kinda slow and can't jump, I think but the draft is bad enough that he can move way up.

Similarly I think Toppin should be like top ten. He's older and close to maxed out but at least he's probably a pretty good NBA player who neatly fits an archetype.

If Anthony or Edwards don't start playing better I'm throwing my hands up and just putting Okongwu 1. It's also kinda hard to think of a good reason for why they should be above LaMelo at the moment.

I agree with you, other than the 2nd round thing obviously I was just going off of mocks. If winston was faster, poppier, drew a couple more fouls, shot a couple more threes, he'd be in the late lottery at least. He just knows how to do it. Sometimes it takes these small guys a few years to adjust to NBA size and length, like Shabazz Napier or Trey Burke before he got hurt. I believe in Cassius. Some mocks even have him below a DIFFERENT GUY NAMED CASSIUS. Cassius Stanley, Duke's 6'3 sg who's genuinely playing pretty well in short minutes at low usage.

One thing I like about Obi Toppin is that he has a short neck. Long neck doesn't help you play basketball. Long legs, long arms, those help you. I like toppin, I need to watch more than highlights to say anything definitive so that I can't be mocked in the future, but I like him.

Jay Scrubb's highlights against juco scrubs are wonderful. He looks like a bucket man

Someone probably already posted this in the thread but I'm guessing that the best guys to come out of this draft are not shooters now but will develop their shot as a pro. It's a measurements and gambling draft. The last first overall surprising measurements guy in a bad draft was big boy Antonino Bennet. Win some, lose some.

Instead of rambling on, I'll give an example, if Precious Achiuwa develops a shot and a little handle, he could end up as the top guy in the draft. I think we'll at least be able to shake out a handful of guys who look like potential starters and rotation players as the college season goes on. I'm crossing my fangers.

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop
Since the importance of the three-point shot has increased it seems like a lot of players come to the draft with a shot that's not quite good enough, they need to get better as they age to justify a draft slot, but that's very hard to predict or project. And if you think you can turn every bad shooter with a nice motion into a good three-point shooter you end up like the Knicks. It's very tricky

On the other hand, guys who come in to the draft with Rock solid three-point shooting tend to be underdeveloped in the rest of their ames because they're outliers in this tricky skill.

Don't know why voice to text capitalizes random nouns

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

Declan MacManus posted:

i think the draft process overvalues point guards that can create their own (3 point) shot and centers who can finish inside because that’s what modern offenses feature

for all the analytics-driven stuff that the nba embraces, it is a very conservative follow-the-leader enterprise in practice

I think it might be part of the nature of scouting that leads to players who succeed in the style similar to NBA players who are doing very well to be rated over other players who might be better, but in a way that isn't being done at the highest level in the NBA.
D'Angelo Russell was compared to Curry, markelle fultz was compared to Harden.

Brandon Clarke had no contemporary comp. Pascal siakam wasn't compared to anybody of note.
it's not that picking a player who doesn't fit a superstar archetype always works it's just that sometimes the best player doesn't fit the archetype

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop
I don't disagree with you guys about comps. What I was trying to express was that in scouting in watching players fail and succeed and imagining roles in the NBA, players who are dominant in the NBA are going to dominate the minds of all but the canniest scouts.

it seems like it's easier to drum up excitement when the best player or the best prospect is clearly one of a kind or just a very rare breed. Zion was a crazy player who did things that were seemingly impossible. Because of that he's got to relearn how to run walk in jump, but everybody got really excited and it was a very fun thing to experience

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

tadashi posted:

It's not NBA but PJ Washington shot 23% from behind the arc in 2017-18 compared to over 42% in 18-19 and has shot over 40% during his rookie season.

I thought Rui was hitting 3p shots early in the season (as opposed to college) but I see he's missing nearly 80% of 3's. Ouch.

I'd likeanyone who doubts my draft savant status to go back and check my PJ Washington takes. This kids got it all

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop
Despite Powell's achilles tear, I don't think the Mavs will do anything to get drummond. There are enough springy pnr guys who aren't going to take up the salary.
On the other hand, with the way premier free agents have completely ignored Dallas, maybe they will trade some random gaggle of stuff.

Declan MacManus posted:

yeah that’s the one

he coached lamelo at SPIRE then i guess quit to become his agent

Just another proud Detroit boy doing it real big in the world of basketball. UDM... No mercy on the court. baby

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop
lamelo was already on proper steroids, so he's not going to have the same problem his brother had with getting shoved around when he comes into the league. Past that, I don't know. He looks the part and then he just misses a shot that looks ridiculous and this happens over and over.

I don't know what they're looking at his downside as, maybe Michael Carter-Williams but beefy and can play off ball if he is not good enough to play one?

I've heard that the biggest knock on him is that is brother is orientalist

Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Feb 19, 2020

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop
I had a bizarre pain dream tht Anthony Edwards was playing for the Pistons and they were wearing the horsehead jerseys he'd chosen number 7. He wore his hair very tight, and I believe after he made a shot he high fived Cassius Winston, who was wearing number 99. I've never had a dream about basketball that didn't involve me playing in 10th grade before. Is this a prophecy?

Nico mannion, he doesn't seem too bad

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/aaron-nesmith-1.html
I don't know how hard you have to adjust Aaron Nesmith (secretly naismith related??)'s stats for the competition but they're great

Is he being projected 19-25 range because he's too skinny? I still haven't watched much more than highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX6X0TabK9M

He reminds me a little bit of Terrance Ferguson, or Terrence, the OKC one

Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Mar 2, 2020

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
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Okungu is landing near Detroit in mocks, which makes me happy. if they do sign Christian wood as their long-term starting center, okungu seems like a very good complimentary power forward who can cover many centers and could cover perimeter players, and is solid on offense. the right guy at the right position at the right time with the right skills to make the roster fit

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop
Xavier Tillman is now a possible first rounder. That's really cool. He should be a solid multipositional defender and hopefully he'll find a role on offense other than screener

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop
Some stuff by John Hollinger about old shortneck

4. Onyeka Okongwu, PF/C, USC
Okongwu was awesome as a freshman and the only reason I don’t have him higher is that today’s game doesn’t value bigs as much. He still might be undervalued here. Relative to his position he’s arguably the best player in this draft, and in particular would seem to be an outstanding fit with the Golden State Warriors.

Let’s get into the details. Since 2011-12, five major conference NCAA freshman have had a PER north of 30 and shot better than 70 percent from the line, an important indicator that they had enough skill to be something besides a ‘90s beast-ball 5 in the pros.

The first four were Anthony Davis, Cody Zeller, Karl-Anthony Towns and Deandre Ayton. Three of them were the first pick in the draft and the other one was picked third and has had a very solid pro career.

Okongwu is the fifth. He’s currently pegged in the mid-to-late lottery by most forecasts. Maybe that’s fair — obviously, the fact that he shares a statistical similarity with a group of players does not automatically mean he will follow in their footsteps.

At the same time … in a draft this short on star potential, isn’t at least a little interesting that Okongwu’s statistical comps have been so wildly successful? It’s not like he was playing in a USC system that titled things in favor; watch the tape and at times you’ll want to run on the court and beg their guards to get him the freaking ball. At other times he had to hold spacing so that USC’s other bigs could get touches (!), even though Okongwu has an excellent post game and easily gets to jump hooks with either hand.

He put up monster stats anyway, leading the Pac-12 in PER and BPM and shooting 60.7 percent in conference play. His ability to score on the block should become more prominent at the pro level, especially against switches.

While Okongwu’s ceiling probably profiles closer to that of Ayton’s than Towns’ or Davis’, that would still be a hell of an outcome with a meh lottery pick in a weak draft. As with a player he’s frequently compared to — Miami’s Bam Adebayo — his height may be held against him at 6-9. Unlike Adebayo, however, Okongwu shows enough promise as a shooter that he may be able to play next to a true 5 as his skill level progresses. He’s already a better post scorer than Bam, but he doesn’t have his ballhandling and passing skill.

Even if Okongwu doesn’t become a stretch big, he could be a steal anywhere after the first few picks. I’m not a huge fan of drafting 5s, but Okongwu offers some positional flexibility as a 4/5 and, as noted above, he was freaking awesome this year. After the three guards at the top, Okongwu’s value proposition is just too great to ignore.



https://theathletic.com/1808864/2020/05/13/hollingers-nba-draft-top-20-plus-sleepers-the-guys-id-be-willing-to-bet-on/ from here, if you'd like me to post more, let me know

Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 02:45 on May 28, 2020

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop
If you need some audio draft content, Chad ford and John Bollinger have a podcast on the locked on network.

Are there other good draft focused podcasts? I have so many hours to drive

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

ButtWolf posted:

Is it just because basketball is dead or is this the most uninteresting class ever? Ball intrigues me even though I hate his dad. Wiseman and Edwards might be ok. After I don't really care about anyone.

And Okongwu looks to be solid but im still torn on him.

I got two words for you Butt Wolf
Cassius Winston

Watch his highlights. He's going to be great

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop

MourningView posted:

I have kinda slowly come around to Winston as a back of the first type guy because he's so good in the pick and roll and shooting off the dribble but the margin of error for a tiny guy who can't jump at all is so thin. I have him, Tre Jones, Flynn, and Dotson all kinda clustered together in the 28-35 range and go back and forth a lot on how to order them.

The MSU guy I really love is Tillman who I think is a top 20ish guy even if I'm not totally sure how he scores.

I see him as a modern day Jose Calderon, someone who can make every pass that exists within 2 or 3 beats of man-movement and who can reliably make every shot that isn't swallowed up. I think he could find a role as a backup pg who leads a fast scoring bench who then gets put back into the tool box when a modern 6'5 pg olympian pg comes back into the game and starts bashing him into the ground like mario.

Tillman is really good at everything, abuse culture, he is the type of guy Toronto likes. Jack of All trades, great passer, long arms, maybe not super popcorn popper athletic but moves well enough.

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop

Declan MacManus posted:

it’s the smartest way to fix that stuff; trying to scrap a compound motion that has x years of muscle memory built in just means that it’s going to break down in high pressure moments, especially if it’s going in already

only scrap the whole form if there are severe accuracy issues or if you’re being blocked repeatedly (or i guess if you’re worried about that stuff in the nba); lamelo’s problem isn’t his form (which isn’t great but it’s fast enough if low) but his peepee doodoo shot selection

From watching highlights of his from Australia, he seems to make really quick reads on passes, and following that, he seems to see his shot in the same way as a pass. If he has a second of daylight then he lets go. That's something you should do if you're good, or at least a bit above average at shooting. If you're bad, you need to wait until you're actually open.

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop

MourningView posted:

https://twitter.com/DickieV/status/1283395346291400705?s=19

Xavier no!! I hate how izzo somehow manages to neg every good player he gets into staying an extra year.

I really don't get how in a draft like this some smart team picking in the late first doesn't promise him. Like he has some physical limitations but he's such an obviously good basketball player, and good at stuff that translates, I don't see how he isn't close to a lock to have a long career as a rotation guy.

It's confusing. I was waiting for a story in the Free Press about how he wanted to be close to family in case the season is canceled, something like that, but I haven't heard a thing past this stuff in an sbnation MSU bball blog

"You look at some of the draft (projections) and some of them have him in the late first round and some of them have him in the late second or not drafted. He’s kind of learned those things matter none. It’s the NBA that matters. That’s been a little hard for him, because you kind of want to believe the good. It’s very difficult at 20 years old to be able to look at things like that." -Izzo

Izzo went a step further and stated that he believes that Tillman has some improving to do if he wants to improve his stock to become a surefire first-rounder.

"What some people have told me is it would really help him to really improve that shot, which I think he will. I mean it’s not broken, he just needs reps. And then improve his lateral quickness, which I think he can. Find the right weight — maybe it’s 240, 245 — be able to stay there in the best shape and be able to switch positions (between power forward and center). For his long-range (prospects), I think he is better staying another year (at MSU), because I don’t think there’s enough definitive answers yet."

It's true that he could improve his shot and get better hip mobility, but I think you're right that he could have very easily found himself in a good role on a good organization in the 20s

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop
"I'd love to see this guy on Golden State" has replaced "I think his best fit is on the Spurs" in NBA Draft guy lingo

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop
How did Obi Toppin end up as a 22 year old sophmore?

Oh he did a prep school year and red shirted

That's unfortunate

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop

MourningView posted:

He's only a day younger than Jayson Tatum lol

I don't want to write him off completely, we've seen the Raptors get good rotation guys by drafting older players. But it would suggest a lower ceiling than you might guess from just watching games

I guess the question is, can he fix his lateral mobility and become the ranging defender you'd hope for from a guy who's like a 6'9 center/pf, and I suppose you'd hope that his offensive skills in general improve. All that makes him a sort of safe pick for some teams and a bad pick for others, just based on what they've done with guys who had similar limitations.

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop
I spent the evening watching a couple Maccabi Tel Aviv games for Deni Avdija, plus the requisite clips before summing up what I think

He's a really nice passer for a 6'9 guy, his handle is good for his size, he makes open threes when he has breathing room, his touch around the basket is soft, he seems like he has room to improve, even if he's not long armed or an elite athlete.
In his rare post ups he can exploit the mismatch, which is good for a 6'9 wing without elite speed or length, just putting an athletic 6'5 combo guard on him won't be an automatic stop.

Downsides, shooting in general is just ok. Teams were leaving no one to guard him, even with a head of steam, until he reached the lane. If he can't make say 36% of pull up threes, he's more of your third ball handler than secondary, and probably a bench player.
He's not strong, and NBA length will make some of his smooth finger rolls and lay ins much harder. His wide open shooting is good, NBA teams might give him those, so we'll learn about that pretty quickly.

Sometimes gets murdered on screens, and there's no scrambling back into the play just in time, he's out, like Trae Young or Dangelo Russell, once he gets hit.

Like Obi Toppin he really needs to become better at lateral movement if he wants to play NBA defense.

He only played so many mpg because Maccabi is a top team. Omri Casspi is the player that some people assume Deni is, but Avdija's strength is in passing and dribbling around bigs to get easy lay ins now, his ideal self is a distributor and a playmaker in a way Casspi only did in a small way, once in a while in Sacramento

Him being a 95% righty player is going to add some difficulty with all the smaller lefty ball snatchers in the NBA.

Quincy Acy was also on the court a decent amount for Maccabi, and he's still a beast.

This draft is really bad if he's a top 5 pick, but you can sniff the outlines of a solid player whose versatility can make things easier for his teammates, and generally give the team different looks. If you're playing hitting-his-ceiling-Anthony Edwards at 2, you'd want a best version of Avdija at 3(We saw the sad version of this with Wiggins/Saric in Minnesota.) If he can rebound better and lead the break, hit a trailer for a 3, he makes a lot of bench units better in transition.

I haven't seen the advanced stats projections for these guys, but I guess I can see the upside teams are seeing. I don't know how often 6'9 euro guards can stay guards, he's probably a 3/4.

What all these top guys seem to have in common is that watching them a little bit reminds you of similar guys who've failed hard in the NBA.

Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Aug 2, 2020

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop
MSU keeps getting 5 star guys and I don't know why. They are who they are, but they never had the cachet or the zero interest no repay necessary loans from boosters that other colleges had. Emori Bates is probably just going straight to the NBA, but it certainly looks good for MSU in the meantime

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop
This is the draft to gamble on a great shooter becoming a well rounded player and to gamble on an athlete guy becoming a killer big wing.

Could anyone do us paupers a favor and post the ESPN mock/ any other paywalled mocks you have access to?

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop

Boosh! posted:

mod comment below

Thanks for the effort

It's a shame the mods are pipsqueaks who censor the truth

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

Vinestalk posted:

I want to believe, buddy. Hard to replicate what OKC has done even if you got a guy who saw how the sausage was made.

My guess is that they'll sign Christian Wood and draft BPA. If they don't think Wood will re-sign, then they say gently caress it, trade down and draft Pokusevski, although he might be a mid lottery pick by the time workouts and everything take place.

I really want to see combine numbers for a lot of these guys. I was really high on Jarret Culver until I found out he had petite hands and weighed 40 lbs. The skinny man has to be ultra skilled to be a great NBA player. The small handed man has to have at least two incredible talents, whether body or mind or skill. It's a terrific thing to overcome.

For a few years, NBA scouts got way too down on snake men, last year, they reached fair to possibly over valuing the snake man and his ilk.

If Onyeka Okongwu makes it to 7, I'd be happy. Even if that steals some Sekou Doumbouya thunder, Okongwu is further along, and the Raptors have shown that it's not a bad thing to have multiple long athletes with lots of development potential.

Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Aug 22, 2020

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop
Some random thoughts about Killian Aka "Dolph Schayes" Hayes

He has an odd sort of flick and poke jumper that seems incredibly vulnerable to closeout blocks. Not exposed to that type of athleticism on a middling Bundesliga team. Shot really well for a stretch. Makes stepbacks everywhere.

He does not read as a great athlete. Even with a full head of steam in transition he looks like a quickish Euro player, which is somewhere around slow/medium slow NBA player. His one standout area is lateral speed, he can shuffle his feet and go side to side to the ball really well, seems like something he's drilled a lot. I'm using that slightly different than the normal "slide and recover" lateral quickness, I mean literally sort of side stepping to move horizontally on the court.

Some of his highlight passes come from him getting to the lane and the threat of finishing, but he wouldn't be able to finish 90% of his highlight drive and kick assists against NBA defenders. He wouldn't even be able to start half these drives. And it's not like he put up great stats against these guys.

He has a confident and not flashy handle. He really pounds the ball, not in a Seton Hall 1996 way, just tight. He makes a few nifty passes and seems to see the court pretty well.

His scoring is okay, clearly he's a cut above Bundesliga guys but not enough to really impress in any area.

He has some Furkan Korkmaz vibes, not the same player type, but you get the sense that it's going to take him 3 years or so to adjust to NBA talent, he needs to get stronger, faster, quicker, and will need to adjust the timing of all his moves for super athletes with long arms.

There's a huge divide between leagues in his tape. In the more open games he's flinging lonzo ball passes , easily swaying to the rim for drop offs, making every sort of wild pass happen at the free throw line, throwing oops, getting to the basket and tossing in lay ups, making step backs from every spot on the court you can tell that his initial top 3 pick hype came from scouts watching these games. Then you have the other games where he looks like a barely good enough to survive the NBA player making tough passes and shots in slowed down half court games.

If you think you can feed him steroids, slip some resistance bands on him, and perfect his 3p shot with defenders in his face, he's a solid contemporary PNR pg. Not a transition only guy, not an ankle breaker, not a one on one shot making machine, just a solid pg who has the chance to be more depending on how he develops and the team around him.

I think it's always mentioned, but it's funny how little he uses his right hand. you could give him a hook on his right and his game wouldn't change. He needs to try the stranger out a few times, it would benefit him. He doesn't draw fouls. Not much worth talking about on defense.

Cleveland could covet a guy like him to play next to Garland, and move Sextown somewhere else.


-------
Back to Onyeka Okongwu, the more I watch him the more I like him. 6'9 high energy center who can cover almost everyone. He needs to get stronger because a lot of playoff teams seem to have a solid 7 footer who can brush the small ball 5 aside, doesn't always matter but you don't want to invest all your hopes on a guy who requires a sub anytime a talented true center shows up. He needs to stop wheeling around without purpose before he figures out what's going on. Clean up the footwork and the 'defend 1-5' thing might actually be possible in the NBA.

He doesn't seem to have much Bam or Draymond point-center in him, and his ft% is only 63%. I suppose if he was like Bam or Draymond (pre shoulder injuries that ruined his shot) he'd be a consensus top couple pick. He's just a great athlete 6'9 center who'll defend the rim, make quick rotations, and dunk the ball on offense. That's fine by me.

It seems like every top team now keeps both a small ball center and a sort of traditional big, or someone who masquerades as one, on the roster. That means he'll have a place. He might be a hustling starter who catches tons of lob dunks on a mediocre team or a beloved reserve on a better team.

Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Aug 25, 2020

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop

You need wheels to have motor (kidding)

I remember people talking about the Mormon King's lack of hustle on defense. There tend not to be top white american prospects so you don't hear too much about them period. The few exceptions were NCAA scorers, guys like Adam Morrison and Doug McBuckets , who did try on defense, they were bad and got targeted, but they put their arms up and did whatever it is that qualifies as NCAA defense.

The way scouts use motor is more about guys who can go turbo speed sometimes and are clearly great run/jump athletes just not using that. Sometimes it's because they lack the skill to play in control at full speed and don't want to expose that, sometimes they're resting, sometimes they're just focused on the other end of the ball.

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Dexo posted:

I've been reading draft poo poo.

And I am all in on this dude

Poku

You know this writer is the real deal because he factors in something I've talked about before, specificially in regards to Thon Maker, "Neck Height."

It makes you look more impressive on paper but only gives slight court vision advantages in practice and may also hinder graceful movement because the head ends up like a pendulum pulling the chest around while shooting

Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Aug 30, 2020

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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Plaster Town Cop
The first line from this bit about Desmond Bane on the Prospect Development patreon killed me.

"Bane is a comically good shooter, despite a shot selection that is in the Young Thug Tha Leak echelon of exploring the studio space. Bane’s jumper is a little funny, it is a 2 motion shot that generates a great deal of power from the shoulders.In the ideal form, there wouldn’t be as much effort from the upper body and the release angle would be up instead of out. But, when there is this level of success, tinkering is for the true BLESH believers. To the synergy stats."

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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MourningView posted:

Nesmith being universially regarded as a possible lottery pick while Bane might be a second rounder is really weird to me. I think Bane is the clear best shooter in the draft. He could actually dribble in college, and he's also a much better passer and defender. I guess he's older and not quite as big but doesn't seem like enough of a difference to matter.

This is strongly prejudiced by me reading the B A N E thing on the prospect development patreon about 12 hours ago, but Bane being an extremely late second rounder vs Nesmith mid-lottery only because the standstill guy is 1.3 years younger? Is it because Nesmith has an imagined 6'10 wingspan and Bane has a 6'4 wingspan (he definitely needs a new measurement). Stats and stat-istics?

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

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MourningView posted:

Nesmith isn't strictly a standstill guy, he's a killer off movement shooter, which is valuable. Stackhouse ran a lot of NBA sets to get him running off screens for jumpers. He just can't really do much off the dribble or attack closeouts. It's possible Bane is too limited as an athlete to do much off the dribble in the NBA too, but at least he's shown it, and he's just as good as Nesmith off screens or on catch and shoots. But yeah Nesmith is also bigger which is probably part of it. I do think he's a first rounder because teams will find room for a wing sized guy who shoots, but he and Bey both seem high to me relative to Bane.

My mistake, it's been too long since I watched Nesmith. Add that to whatever his wingspan is 6'8 or 6'10, and all the other stuff he does and I get why he's up in the lottery.

This draft is weird with the role players in the lottery and potentially better players scattered all the way past 60.

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

MourningView posted:

I think my issue is that I'm not sure he does much other stuff? He's a great shooter who has the size to hypothetically be a decent defender but he doesn't actually play very good defense yet. So many guys who get classified as "3&D" are really more like "3 or D" which is what makes someone like Vassell special

My "other stuff" was the off ball movement you brought up, nuffing else. Whereas Bane can do all sorts of stuff with the Ball and has all these avenues of development.

I don't like when guys are labeled as defenders based on +wingspan alone. Schröder was supposed to be the new Rondo, because he had long arms. It took about 6 years for Dante Exum to show a lot on defense while not developing anything else, Frank Ntilikina figured out defense but can't play basketball.

In Nesmith vs Bane, Bane can do off ball stuff, he can work off pnrs, he can dribble a little bit, and makes it when he does get to the rim, and his defense is great now. I get the Nesmith shooting 50% on threes over 14 games and the measurables, I've just been swayed hard to Bane.

I just stumbled upon this stepien article about the 3&D archetype that ends as an endorsement for Jarron Cumberland as the most underrated senior and best 3&D man in the draft. I'll admit that came as a suprise. But why the hell not, why the helllllll not
https://www.thestepien.com/2019/10/25/draft-notes-unreliability-especially-jump-shot-unreliability-3d-archetype/

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop
The pistons have no 2nd round pick this year, about 50% chance of no 2nd round pick in 2021. 2022 is in hand, 2023 has 2 external picks with 1 outgoing. The Pistons really need to buy some picks. They'll be cheap this year, and if Ryan West is around maybe he has a guy in the late first. REBUILDING BABY

Shabazz Muhammad was a left hand dominant guy. I remember the old scouting thing, "turns over right shoulder, turns over left shoulder" because ability to play either side of the post was so important?? I forget.



Mocking Okoro to Detroit doesn't bother me, he could be yet another failure to shoot Detroit Wing, but if Troy Weaver can bring some OKC magic, maybe they really can teach him to shoot well enough, and he is a fun dunker and the sort of explosive athlete you need for baseline competence in non superstar/elite shooting wings.

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

ButtWolf posted:

Is Sekou gonna be more of a 3 or 4? I watched 0.5 Pistons games this year. Can he shoot at all? Stats look bad. I know nothing about him other than some tape from before the draft last year.

He's solidly a forward, he's like 6'9 with a 6'11 wingspan. He takes up a lot of space. His shooting is a work in progress, but he does look good when he takes the ball and goes, has defensive potential only limited by however much innate feel for the game, he's a project, but an intriguing one.

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

Rick posted:

Remy Martin would be a nice scoring punch off the bench ... . ... . . .

If only Remy and Bassy Telfair had been on the same team at the same time

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

MourningView posted:

I don't think he's bad I just don't think he'd go ahead on LaMelo on very many boards. He was shooting pretty well once he got settled in, but he's still like a 6'0" guard who didn't do a lot aside from score and it's hard to build around that, especially when you have another one. Their roster construction is very stupid.

ACTUUALLY PLAYING TWO SHOOT FIRST SMALL GUARDS ONE MAN OFF THE STREET AND TWO OFFENSIVE REBOUNDING SPECIALISTS WHO CANT DEFEND IS A GOODE IDEA

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop
In Class of 2022 news, 14th ranked prospect Skyy Clark could be the first NBA player named after a WNBA team, a vodka and, a funk band

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

hifi posted:

a newbie question, what's up with the suns talking to a lot of 2nd round ranked prospects? if you are looking for UDFAs do you cast a net that optimistically (desmond bane is a specific name I just saw) or is this more in preparation for a trade into the 2nd?

This year especially there are a lot of guys ranked in the 2nd round who have no real separation from prospects from like 8-30. Subtract a couple inches of height or wingspan, add one more year of college, they're the same guys. The best players from this draft in 4 years or so are equally likely to be second as first rounders.

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Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

Declan MacManus posted:

toppin grades out to be a pretty good stretch 4 who’s a disaster on defense; you don’t want him in the low post

I was trying to think of physical comparisons to Toppin and really couldn't, I had to use nbadraft.net's comps. He really has the body of Shawn Marion, another widebody man with an abnormally short neck that makes his listed height smaller than his playing height, which is like 6'9 vs 6'11 for both of them. Obviously Marion was a much more versatile athlete, but they both have that "jump over a 6'8 man" pop and strong strenfff

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