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PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020



So, I was reading the manual for the ACFT. If it has to be taken on grass or artificial turf, are they just never going to take one in CENTCOM?

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spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014





PeterCat posted:

So, I was reading the manual for the ACFT. If it has to be taken on grass or artificial turf, are they just never going to take one in CENTCOM?

Nobody is ever taking one now.

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020



spacetoaster posted:

Nobody is ever taking one now.

Oh? Did they finally get around to scrapping it when they realized it was unworkable outside of specific garrison conditions?

Bell_
Sep 3, 2006

Tiny Baltimore




It's COVID, at least in TRADOC.

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020



Bell_ posted:

It's COVID, at least in TRADOC.

Sounds like a lack of heart.

Woofer
Mar 2, 2020


I have been told by the president that we are at war with covid so if the army is gonna run and hide during war then it should disband and my tax dollars should get wasted elsewhere.

Itchy_Grundle
Feb 22, 2003



Fun Shoe

Nice and hot piss posted:


Combat mopping

Defensive scrubbing


Is this where Curling came from?

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014





PeterCat posted:

Oh? Did they finally get around to scrapping it when they realized it was unworkable outside of specific garrison conditions?

Just my educated guess.

The last one got scrapped when it was just too much effort.

This one was suffering from numerous problems (required certifications are difficult to get, equipment is not available in many places, contracts are failing to be fulfilled, etc) before the roni hit us. Now everything is even more screwed up.

You can take an APFT in a parking lot with the required equipment of 2 NCO's and a clipboard (clipboard optional).

The intent of all this physical fitness stuff is just to give a commander a general idea of the level of fitness in his unit (so he can build a PT program based off of what he thinks they need). It's not really supposed to be some super, all-inclusive, 4 hour exam that requires special schools and certifications to do.

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020



But Crossfit!

You make a very good point. The ACFT is trying to get the Army into shape by making the preparation for the PT test into a much more involved process.

As you said, instead of a commander developing a PT program that is tailored the unit's mission and needs, it tries to make the entire Army into a reasonably fit young woman.

Instead of trying to justify the deadlift as being good training for ruck marches, how about just having ruck marches if that's what your unit does? If you're prepping to go to the mountains of Afghanistan, that would be a good time to find some hills to run up and down.

I reject the argument at the ACFT will make the Army more lethal. We aren't the Roman legions. We use air strikes, artillery, and firearms. Chucking a 10 lb medicine ball for distance isn't going to help that.

rifles
Oct 8, 2007
is this thing working

The problem IMO is that they've kept the ACFT at the unitish level. As I understand it, the Air Force has testing locations, and when you need a PT test you schedule it and go to that location where certified personnel are staffing and do nothing but administer and grade PT tests. You could do this and have the equipment there and boom the results are going to be less biased by buddy-buddying inside the unit and can be taken care of without such large coordinated efforts to do a company+ at once.

This doesn't work at all for the guard or reserves, though. Our unit's solution to training for it was to make everyone report on our first day of drill in apfu and do one of the exercises a few times, then go change. We never received a sled or medicine balls to try, and now with no drilling from covid, the solution is to have us read a PDF at home and good luck when it's time!

I do think the test has potential as an indicator of more useful physical fitness. You won't have someone maxing+ every event because they weigh 130 lbs and being the most physically fit dude on paper but being unable to move equipment cases by themselves or carry someone if they need to. But like everything army it's ruined by poor design, management, and implementation.

Howard Phillips
May 4, 2008

His smile; it shines in the darkest of depths. There is hope yet.

Nice and hot piss posted:

The national guard lifestyle is the best.

You get to train 1 weekend a month, sometimes Friday-monday and do some of the most high speed poo poo you can ever think of.

Combat mopping

Defensive scrubbing

Tactical classes on sexual harassment prevention, suicide prevention.

Did I mention all the cleaning duties?

As an O, you'll obviously not be entitled to these details, and you'll be in briefings for the entire weekend, most likely figuring out what to do to the enlisted scum next month.


I was/am considering a life in the natty guard, because I hate myself and every so often miss the military lifestyle. Being an officer of course, and after med-sepping from Marine OCS in the fall of 2019 was kind of a bummer.


But then I usually come to my senses and just huff a bunch of paint and stay with my normal daytime job.

So I did a deep dive into the Army Reddit about Reserve/NG lifestyle and oh boy... I've seen my share of retardation in the Navy as an E and an O, but nothing compares to what the Army goes through. I'm guessing it's mostly because of how large the Army is. Also, ships in the Navy can suck dick but still has to meet minimum requirements for being able to float at sea. Stakes are higher for subs and aircraft of course. I guess in the Army, as long as you're breathing you can be sent anywhere with nothing and no leadership.

Consequently, the cynicism is on point.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014





Having a central, or several, locations to conduct the ACFT is a thing the Army is (or was) trying to do. And it's got a ton of problems as I mentioned before (contracts for building these places falling through). But then you've got the issues of getting 100% of a unit to travel to that location for their twice a year test requirement. What happens if 25% of the unit is doing something? There's always at least a few people that are not available due to whatever. They can't just show up to the location another day because that will screw up another unit's day to use the facility.

Then there's the issue of units that are deployed needing to travel back twice a year to go to these locations? Or try and building the locations all over Europe, Africa, and the Middle East too? And staff them full time? What about units that just have a handful of troops doing a job in small town America (engineers, chemical, and recruiters come to mind)?

And all this is just regular Army Bubbas. The Reserves is even more of a difficult issue.


And regs would have to all be changed too. Schools, boards, and jobs that require a record PT test from the last 30 days would be laughable.

spacetoaster fucked around with this message at 14:33 on May 13, 2020

bulletsponge13
Apr 28, 2010


Why not have the training team travel with their poo poo, TDY for X amount if time per post, with a rotation between major posts?

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014





bulletsponge13 posted:

Why not have the training team travel with their poo poo, TDY for X amount if time per post, with a rotation between major posts?

There's a couple of mobile training teams right now. They're very hard to get ahold of.

Also turnover in the military is an issue. My headquarters finally got a level 3 certified guy and we just found out he's been reassigned. lol.

Woofer
Mar 2, 2020


Random question but why does the army PCS people? Why does a unit at Ft Campbell swap one E4 for someone that has pretty much the same ERB and rank in Korea?

It’s one of the biggest morale killers that I’ll never understand.

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020



The onesie, twosie soldiers needing PT test is going to be a hard one to manage. The Guard has a constant flow of soldiers going to schools, but it's always at somewhat random intervals and the ACFT means that they can't just show up to an armory on a given day and take a PT test.

If the main base in every state had a testing facility you could schedule a monthly test for people who need a valid test 30 days prior to going to a school, but how does that work for a geographically large state?

Getting further from the PT test and just into Guard in general, it's become more and more apparent (and frankly stated), that the Guard has transitioned away from having a stateside mission and is leaning more and more into its role as one of the reserve components of the Big Army. Guard Bureau likes this because it means they get a seat the big table, but I think it makes the Guard a harder sell as a long term commitment.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014





Woofer posted:

Random question but why does the army PCS people? Why does a unit at Ft Campbell swap one E4 for someone that has pretty much the same ERB and rank in Korea?

It’s one of the biggest morale killers that I’ll never understand.

I would guess the constant churn makes promotion, either in rank/position/or job, possible.

If not then you end up with situations like the Guard where no E4 can get promoted because there's a 50 year old E5 that just won't leave the unit above them.

Syrian Lannister
Aug 25, 2007

Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.


Sugartime Jones

Or in my case with the reserves, NCO slots were saved for medical lab rats.

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES


PeterCat posted:

But Crossfit!

You make a very good point. The ACFT is trying to get the Army into shape by making the preparation for the PT test into a much more involved process.

As you said, instead of a commander developing a PT program that is tailored the unit's mission and needs, it tries to make the entire Army into a reasonably fit young woman.

Instead of trying to justify the deadlift as being good training for ruck marches, how about just having ruck marches if that's what your unit does? If you're prepping to go to the mountains of Afghanistan, that would be a good time to find some hills to run up and down.

I reject the argument at the ACFT will make the Army more lethal. We aren't the Roman legions. We use air strikes, artillery, and firearms. Chucking a 10 lb medicine ball for distance isn't going to help that.

Deadlifts are a lot better for the body than rucking, for starters. They're also better training for rucking than the way the military likes to do training rucks. I saw an article that had some studies showing you start losing training effectiveness once you get above 35 pounds in the pack.

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020



Internet Wizard posted:

Deadlifts are a lot better for the body than rucking, for starters. They're also better training for rucking than the way the military likes to do training rucks. I saw an article that had some studies showing you start losing training effectiveness once you get above 35 pounds in the pack.

Well, of course the way the Army actually does things versus how they should do things is the question.

not caring here
Feb 22, 2012

blazemastah 2 dry 4 u

Yeah, rucking and running up and down hills are like the top causes for loving people up in the military.

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES


Time to go on a boots and utes run on this paved trail downhill. Anybody that reports to medical for shin splints is a malingerer.

Syrian Lannister
Aug 25, 2007

Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.


Sugartime Jones

Especially if you are young and dumb and volunteer to hump a 60 up and down sand hills and other bs on Bragg. In the summer.

Howard Phillips
May 4, 2008

His smile; it shines in the darkest of depths. There is hope yet.

Apparently going to NTC is PTSD inducing? Again I'm a former Navy dude so the logistics of thousands of soldiers and equipment is not something I'm too familiar with. The closest thing I observed from the side was an amphibious ship loading marines and equipment over a week long period. It looked miserable for all the marines. We also made fun of them for having 24/7 guard on their parked vehicles inside the ship in the middle of the ocean.

A Bad Poster
Sep 25, 2006
Seriously, shut the fuck up.



They were doing that to protect their stuff from other Marines stealing parts to fix their own broken poo poo.

NTC is like what you saw, except in the middle of the taint between the Mojave and Death Valley, and it involves so many many moving pieces that you're lucky to have a unit get through an exercise there without multiple fatalities.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014





Howard Phillips posted:

having 24/7 guard on their parked vehicles inside the ship in the middle of the ocean.

Can't trust a sea man.

Also, I don't know how you water boys do it, but if I had a vehicle that was missing parts and you let me around an unguarded motor pool my truck would be back operational with some extras in no time at all.

Retrowave Joe
Jul 20, 2001
Be heroes.

spacetoaster posted:

Having a central, or several, locations to conduct the ACFT is a thing the Army is (or was) trying to do. And it's got a ton of problems as I mentioned before (contracts for building these places falling through).

*snip*

And regs would have to all be changed too. Schools, boards, and jobs that require a record PT test from the last 30 days would be laughable.

That would only require policy changes, as 350-1 para 3-13 outlines the APFT requirements for schools, and all it says is that you can’t be flagged for APFT or body comp failure to attend schools. The whole 90/60/30 passing APFT requirement is just unit-developed CYA measures, much like the “must have 70 in every event” bs some units try.

As for the rest you’re spot on. I can only speak from the Reserve side, but I feel like they’re really half-assing this as usual. We have a unique opportunity to actually address the physical readiness problems we face Army-wide and all they’ve managed so far is shipping the equipment around, which we’re not authorized to use outside of an ACFT.

One of the most fundamental aspects of being a Soldier is treated like an afterthought and chucked into the “individual responsibility” bucket. The Army has MOSs for PTAs, PTs, and nutritionists. Fucken use them.

The Reserve already has a Training Command devoted solely to training drill sergeants and instructors. I’d mission and resource them to stand up a Soldier Fitness Division that provides units with ACFT testing, nutrition and fitness plans, and (ideally) physical rehab services. Yeah, there’d be a huge cost outlay and lots of logistical issues to work out, but I’m literally shitposting so we can hash out the details later.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014





Retrowave Joe posted:

That would only require policy changes, as 350-1 para 3-13 outlines the APFT requirements for schools, and all it says is that you can’t be flagged for APFT or body comp failure to attend schools. The whole 90/60/30 passing APFT requirement is just unit-developed CYA measures, much like the “must have 70 in every event” bs some units try.


Yeah, "Regs" is my catchall phrase for everything.

Retrowave Joe posted:

The Army has MOSs for PTAs, PTs, and nutritionists. Fucken use them.

I remember my shock at discovering that there were actual Soldiers with jobs like: Carpenter, plumber, A/C repair, etc.

Talk about jobs/certifications you could use in the civilian world.

CMD598
Apr 11, 2013


spacetoaster posted:

Can't trust a sea man.

Also, I don't know how you water boys do it, but if I had a vehicle that was missing parts and you let me around an unguarded motor pool my truck would be back operational with some extras in no time at all.

Tracking serial numbers through supply and maintenance programs, both on paper and electronically. For aviation anyway. Also the part is like half a mil.

Woofer
Mar 2, 2020


spacetoaster posted:

Can't trust a sea man.

Also, I don't know how you water boys do it, but if I had a vehicle that was missing parts and you let me around an unguarded motor pool my truck would be back operational with some extras in no time at all.

I thought this was just standard army practice.

Retrowave Joe
Jul 20, 2001
Be heroes.

If you haven’t swapped doors from the commander’s Humvee to yours because of the loving zippers the hell are you even in the army for

JohnnyHardcore
Jan 15, 2008


Retrowave Joe posted:

If you haven’t swapped doors from the commander’s Humvee to yours because of the loving zippers the hell are you even in the army for

*Subtitles for the militarily impaired*

"Hey boss, taking Snuffy and Numbnuts with me to the motor pool to double check those serial numbers and make sure everything is good for that inspection next week." (I'm going to distract the Motor SGT in the smoke pit with a mostly-true stripper story and a fresh pack of smokes while these two reprobates steal everything they can get their hands on and lock it in our conex.)

"Sounds good, way to get ahead of that." (Do my trucks too, and steal from whatever platoon I'm mad at this week first.)

"Roger?" (I hate you, these two loving idiots, and my life.)

"Roger." (I'm waiting to retire so that I can move my PFC girlfriend in with me so I can quit creepily hanging out outside the barracks. Also I hate you.)

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020



Has anyone here every processed paperwork for a Combat Action Badge after returning from deployment? I am trying to get one awarded for one of my flight crews. I am trying to find out how to get a hold of a SITREP or Casualty Report, but AFAIK those are classified Secret and I'm not sure where I would start to dig one up.

The following paragraph is from the HRC website:

HRC posted:

Q2: What documentation must be submitted for Active Duty Soldier requests for the CAB

A2: Requests must be submitted on a DA Form 4187, Personnel Action Request, endorsed through the first general officer in the Soldier's chain of command, and must include the following documents: assignment, attachment, or operational control (OPCON) orders; copy of the Soldier’s Record Brief or DA Form 2-1; no more than a one-page narrative description of the qualifying incident; certified copy of DD Form 214, Military Discharge (If applicable); and supporting documentation which substantiates enemy engagement and eligibility for the CAB (for example: official unit reports; casualty report; line of duty investigation, two or more eyewitness statements from Soldiers who participated in the same ground combat action, or previously awarded Purple Heart orders or valor award (if applicable)).

Anyway, should have been done in theater but the CAB (combat aviation brigade) we were under kicked it back for "formatting" and it never got processed before we left theater.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006


Have you considered not attending the Captain's Career Course?


I don't know what rank/position you hold but I personally would talk to either your S1 to reach out to the CABs S1 or talk to them yourself.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006


Have you considered not attending the Captain's Career Course?


I'd also bring it up to your commander if you want this done in any kind of timely manner, ideally your LTC. Multiple people in this process are going to be asking "Why is this late?". Anything involving a COL or above signature is a time consuming process, especially when documents are late.

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White Chocolate
Jan 23, 2007
Sweat Baby, sweat baby

PeterCat posted:

So, I was reading the manual for the ACFT. If it has to be taken on grass or artificial turf, are they just never going to take one in CENTCOM?

Can confirm so we won't be able to take one in Africom either.

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