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Shodai? This poll is closed. |
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7 | 25.00% |
| Total: | 28 votes | ||
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We have a Fantasy Sumo Tournament that we run most basho. It's pretty fun, and on the player's side, pretty easy. The banzuke is divided into 5 sections, and you get a wrestler at each section to earn you points. You submit a slate of guys for the draft (3 at each section) and then they get picked based on your position on a wire. It's a fun way to follow wrestlers at the bottom of the division. I'll be doing the draft the Saturday before the basho starts, so feel free to join in! Here are the full rules: Basic rules Every player will have a stable of 5 wrestlers. The wrestlers will be from the following ranks: 1 from the yokozuna/ozeki ranks 1 from the sekiwake/komusubi ranks 1 from maegashira 1-5 1 from maegashira 6-10 1 from maegashira 11+ Wrestlers in a stable will gain points for winning bouts and also from achievements like getting a kinboshi or winning the tournament etc. There will also be a couple of ways that points will be deducted from a stable (make-koshi and trading penalties). Drafting A wrestler can only be in a limited number of stables. This number will be a fraction of the total number of people in the league, and whoever is running the league can adjust it for every rank level. For example, perhaps a wrestler could only be held by 1/3 (rounded down) of the players in the league. That means in a league of 10 players, only 3 can have the same wrestler at the same time. For the draft, each player makes a ranked list of the 3 wrestlers they would like at every rank level. Once these lists have all been submitted, the draft randomizes, and then applies the picks in a snake (i.e. y/o picks go ABCDE and then s/k picks go EDCBA and then m1-5 picks go ABCDE etc.). If someone's 1st choice is full by the time the snake reaches them, it takes their second choice, and so on. The randomized list for the draft will be used for the trading wire, but reversed (i.e. if the draft is ABCDE then the wire will start at EDCBA on day 1). Trading Players can trade for the first 7 days of the tournament. All trading stops once bouts start on nakabi, or middle Sunday. To trade, you choose a wrestler from a given rank set to get rid of, and another from the same set to pick up. Trading follows the same rules as drafting in that if, say, 1/3 of the people in the league have a given wrestler you cannot choose them in a trade. Trades must be submitted before 4 pm Japan time each day to be valid for that day. The trades will be processed at 4 pm Japan time. There is free trading before matches start on day 1. Once the basho starts, everyone gets on free trade. The second trade incurs a -.5 point penalty, and every subsequent trade is a -1 point penalty. Priorities in terms of conflicts in a trade will be determined by the trading wire, i.e. someone in 1st position in the wire will beat someone in 3rd position if they both want the same wrestler, but only one can get him. Once someone does a trade they are placed at the bottom of the wire, and everyone else moves up. If multiple people trade on the same day, they are placed at the bottom of the wire in the order that they were higher up in the wire. Therefore if the wire for the league is ABCDEF, and A, C, and F trade, then the wire will be BDEACF for the next day. If 2 people want the same wrestler, but only one can have him, then the person who loses out swaps positions on the bottom of the wire with the person who beat them. Therefore if the wire is ABCDEF and A, C, and F trade, but A gets F's choice because of the wire, then the new wire will be BCEFCA. Scoring Points will be granted in the following ways: 1 pt. for each win 5 pts. for the championship or yusho 3 pts for the runner-up, or jun-yusho 3 pts for a special prize, or sansho 2 pts for a gold star victory, or kinboshi 1 pt. for a winning record, or kachi-koshi -.5 pt. for a losing record, or make-koshi -.5 pt. for your second trade -1 pt. for every trade beyond the first 2 There are a couple of special rules in scoring as it relates to trading. You get the make-koshi penalty for a wrestler even if you traded them away. You only get the kachi-koshi score from a wrestler who is in your stable at the end of the tournament. You only get the kinboshi score from a wrestler if they scored the kinboshi while they were in your stable AND if you still have them at the end of the tournament. The jun-yusho points will not be awarded if 3 or more wrestlers are tied for second place in terms of their record. Here are the tie-breakers, in order: Yusho Jun-yusho Total Sansho Total Kinboshi Total kachi-koshi Fewest trades
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Jan 6, 2020 01:42
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"Sd" means "sandanme", which is the third division of 6 (from lowest to highest, jonokuchi, jonidan, sandanme, makushita, juryo, makuuchi). "64" is the 64th slot on the banzuke for that division, while "E" means "east". The top 4 division have fixed numbers of wrestlers, while the bottom two have a rough number that varies tournament to tournament. Each rank has two levels, east and west. Thus, you'll have juryo 8 east, and juryo 8 west, or j8e and j8w. The east side is considered more prestigious and marginally higher in rank than the west. The east/west division is an interesting side effect of the fact that the banzuke isn't just the abstract idea of rank, but an actual written document on a piece of paper, which is written in two columns. There's all sorts of ephemera around this, like how if there are 3 yokozuna and 3 ozeki the 3rd yokozuna will be y2e, while the 3rd ozeki will be o3w in order to "balance" the two columns. There used to be a thing where "east" would compete against "west" over the course of the tournament for total wins but that got discarded some time ago (I can't remember where I learned this, I'd love if someone remembers the details).Marching Powder posted:Also I'll pass on the picks for this tournament. I don't really know anyone except for Tochinoshin and Hakuho so I'll get my bearings and figure out whose jib I like the cut of. I'll say, doing fantasy is what got me to follow the lower-ranked guys. It's hard when you're starting out to figure out who's worth cheering for other than the few flashy top-rankers. I'm still a Yutakayama fan because I randomly picked him for my bottom-rank slot the first time I did fantasy. You can just pick some random dudes at the right ranks and then enjoy having more to focus on during the low-ranked bouts!
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Jan 6, 2020 09:35
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Rigel posted:Takakeisho participated in practice sessions open to the media, easily winning 10 matches and looking good, very fast. The YDC isn't even the grumpy old men who run sumo. It's the grumpy old men who are formally invited to give their opinion of things to the (somewhat less grumpy) men who run sumo.
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Jan 6, 2020 18:17
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Goddamn. We've all been expecting it though. This is a huge shake up.
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Jan 7, 2020 00:20
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Elissimpark posted:I guess not entirely surprising. Yeah, Hakuho is pretty shrewd, and getting the Miyagino-kabu is an investment, while if he stays on as Hakuho-oyakata he's got nothing to pass on or sell once he himself reaches mandatory retirement.
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Jan 7, 2020 03:14
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pseudodragon posted:He’s also pretty big on records and legacy so I can see getting the special stock and keeping the Hakuho name being a big deal for him. Also I don’t think you’re allowed to sell your name anymore. Huh, you're right. It says that now the JSA determines who gets stock. How the hell does that get determined? There's not very much to go around, relative to how many wrestlers would presumably like to stay on after retirement.
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Jan 7, 2020 03:58
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To be an elder in the sumo association you need to own elder stock, or toshiyori-kabu. There are 105 shares of elder stock, and each one comes with a name. It used to actually be like a share of a corporation, in that wrestlers who wanted to join the organization would have to save a lot of money to buy one from someone who was retiring, or from his wife or whatever. Apparently back in 2011 they prohibited the sale of kabu (there had been several scandals where kabu had been put up as collateral or sold improperly or whatever), and now the Japan Sumo Association (JSA or NSK) just determines who gets what stock. I wonder what their criteria are for who gets stock now.
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Jan 7, 2020 05:17
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Honestly the bits where large men run into each other on a big pile of dirt is secondary to the bits where old men are grumpy in confusing ways.
Kenning fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 06:19
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It's wild, because Miyagno-oyakata's career-high rank was maegashira 13. It's like if Hidenoumi somehow reared the greatest yokozuna of all time. Like, Hakuho definitely understands the physics and principles of sumo much, much better than his oyakata does. That seems like a weird dynamic to have at the stable.
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Jan 7, 2020 07:36
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For people who are interested in true sumo ephemera, this is a wonderful interview with an Isegahama tokoyama (hairdresser) from 2006.
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Jan 7, 2020 09:36
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Mekchu posted:I watched a Chris Sumo video on Tochinosin's heel controversey from 2019 and this seems ti be his take as well. Old grumpy men ruining a sport because they're old and grumpy. (It's also how some BJJ tournaments here in Korea have been ruined but in the way that the old grumpy men actually arent the governing body). I wanna be clear: I sorta enjoy the grumpy old man politics. It gives you something to talk about between basho!
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Jan 7, 2020 18:57
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Gotta say, I'm super enjoying all the new posters and activity in the new thread. New thread every basho could work, new thread annually could also work, I'm amenable. I don't know if it's in the OP, but I super like the Grand Sumo Breakdown podcast. They do an episode just before the start of each basho, a shorter episode during the middle weekend, and a wrap-up show after it's over. They also do banzuke prediction and review episodes, and the occasional bonus episode where the profile a wrestler or some incident in sumo history. It's pretty fun stuff, and I always look forward to it. Fun fact: I got the idea of fantasy sumo (and some of the point system) from GSB, although I expanded it a lot of make it work with a bigger league.
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Jan 8, 2020 02:53
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coconono posted:The idea of a champion rolling up to potential opponents’ practices just to Wreck Their poo poo is some serious BDE. Hakuho has the most BDE of basically any athlete I can think of. PYF Hakuho: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6WWreGfXTU&t=178s
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Jan 8, 2020 03:43
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Tsaedje posted:It's also a circle with two extra bits at the ends and the boundary is at foot level. Peripheral vision isn't going to help you too much to know how close you are to stepping out. I remember the first bout of sumo I ever watched was Hakuho vs. Harumafuji and it looked like Hakuho's feet were implanted into the earth. He's truly uncanny, especially if you watch his bouts from a few years ago, once he was fully mature and seasoned but before his injuries started to really pile up.
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Jan 8, 2020 16:31
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I love that a few zabuton were thrown when Aminishiki henka'd Hakuho 
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Jan 8, 2020 19:05
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Hakuho famously apologized after using a henka to defeat Harumafuji on day 15 in Haru 2016. He was 13-1, and so was Kisenosato, so if he hadn't won it would have gone to a playoff. Instead of a titanic battle of yokozuna with the championship potentially on the line he pulled a huge henka that had Harumafuji flying off the dohyo. The stadium in Osaka actually booed a bit, and everyone hated it. Some people called on him to retire, and he apologized both in the championship interview and afterward. I love Hakuho so much.
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Jan 8, 2020 23:09
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Lexorin posted:It was Yutakayama vr Enho, day 8 gently caress I forgot about this. And of course they did it in front of Konosuke, who is known for being stern and willing to keep rikishi in line when they try to be sloppy at the shikiri-sen (i.e. the little white lines they need to put their fists down behind before the tachi-ai). Konosuke is actually a fan favorite, although lately he's been calling way too many mattas. I just love how pissed he is in this clip.
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Jan 9, 2020 00:40
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They're called "sujo", short for "sumo joshi" or "sumo girls". Here's a Japan Times article from 2018 that uses sumo girls as the hook to introduce a piece about the rising popularity of sumo in the Kisenosato era, and here's an essentially identical article from the LA Times in 1992 that similarly uses sumo girls as the hook to introduce a piece about the rising popularity of sumo in the Waka-Taka era.
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Jan 9, 2020 06:33
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He's not wrong. He knows by taking time off people are gonna talk poo poo and say he needs to retire or whatever, but it allows him to heal. There's huge pressure on Yokozuna to show up and perform, even if they're hurt. Ex-Kisenosato, now Araiso-oyakata, was not brave enough to take time off, so he permanently ruined his body and ended up having what can only be described as an ignominious career as a yokozuna, even though he was an excellent and reliable ozeki for years beforehand.
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Jan 9, 2020 18:50
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Okay, here are my picks! Y/O: Takakeisho / Hakuho / Kakuryu S/K: Asanoyama / Takayasu / Daiesho M1-5: Mitakeumi / Hokutofuji / Tamawashi M6-10: Yutakayama / Ryuden / Onosho M11+: Kiribayama / Kaisei / Terutsuyoshi I'm going to try and do the draft tomorrow before everyone goes to bed, so you can know who to root for! Please have your picks in by noon Pacific time. This is a nice big league, and the Y/O ranks are a little sparse, so we'll probably be a bit permissive with how many people can have a wrestler there, but I'll see once everything is lined up.
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Jan 11, 2020 08:35
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It's under the wire, but picks are in! Bentai Y/O: Goeido S/K: Asanoyama M1-5: Hokutofuji M6-10: Ishiura M11+: Terutsuyoshi bessantj Y/O: Hakuho S/K: Takayasu M1-5: Kotoyuki M6-10: Takanosho M11+: Kiribayama fisting by many Y/O: Hakuho S/K: Daieisho M1-M5: Hokutofuji M6-M10: Ryuden M11-: Tsurugisho Kenning Y/O: Takakeisho S/K: Takayasu M1-5: Mitakeumi M6-10: Yutakayama M11+: Kiribayama Marching Powder Y/O: Goeido S/K: Daiesho M1-5: Enho M6-10: TOCHINOSHIN M11+: Terutsuyoshi Martytoof Y/O: Kakuryu S/K: Takayasu M1-5: Enho M6-10: Ryuden M11+: Kagayaki Mekchu Y/O: Kakuryu S/K: Asanoyama M1-5: Myogiryu M6-10: Takarafuji M11+: Tsurugisho ratmosphere Y/O: Kakuryu S/K: Asanoyama M1-5: Okinoumi M6-10: Tochinoshin M11+: Kaisei Rigel Y/O: Kakuryu S/K: Asanoyama M1-5: Enho M6-10: Aoiyama M11+: Kaisei Robviously Y/O: Takakeisho S/K: Daieisho M1: Hokutofuji M6: Yutakayama M11: Kaisei Scythe Y/O: Kakuryuu S/K: Takayasu M1-5: Mitakeumi M6-10: Takanosho M11+: Kaisei sivad Y/O: Hakuho S/K: Abi M1-5: Mitakeumi M6-10: Aoiyama M11+: Chiyomaru Spokes Y/O: Hakuho S/K: Takayasu M1-5: Enho M6-10: Tochinoshin M11+: Tsurugisho Thauros Y/O: Hakuho S/K: Asanoyama M1-5: Mitakeumi M6-10: Ishiura M11+: Ikioi Looking forward to makuuchi tomorrow!
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Jan 12, 2020 08:45
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Mekchu posted:So reviewing my picks & wins I noticed I picked Oiedo but he didn't compete today so is that because he's out of the tournament, has a bye day, or something else? The fantasy stuff is quite ad hoc. It's just a spreadsheet I update and then I post the results here. It mostly works okay, especially since the only stakes are bragging rights. I'd love to have a website etc., and am actually working on it with some friends in the background. Hopefully soon! In any case, Day 1 standings code:Scythe bessantj Martytoof Sivad Kenning fisting by many Robviously Thauros Spokes Marching Powder ratmosphere Mekchu Rigel Bentai The following rikishi are unavailable for trade: Hakuho Kakuryu Asanoyama Takayasu Mitakeumi Enho Tochinoshin Kaisei I did 5 per for y/o and s/k and 4 per for maegashira. It's a bit looser than normal, but 14 is sort of an awkward number for these sorts of things, and I thought it'd be more fun for more people to get dudes they wanted. Also, bessantj since it appears Kotoyuki is out injured I just gave you third-choice Okinoumi instead, as a free trade to count before day 1. Kenning fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 13, 2020 08:49
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To add on to the Asanoyama promotion chat, I believe one of the elders speaking for the NSK (it might have been Hakkaku himself) stated after Kyushu that they do not consider Asanoyama to be on an ozeki run. Most of the theorycrafting I've seen suggests that that means just hitting the numbers won't be enough. If he gets, say a 13-2 or 14-1 yusho then yeah, they'll probably promote him. But if he just gets a nice 12 wins they'll likely make him wait another basho, like Takakeisho. Great sumo today! Endo v. Hakuho was as good as everyone said. Day 2 standings: code:Scythe bessantj Martytoof Sivad Kenning fisting by many Robviously Thauros Spokes Marching Powder ratmosphere Mekchu Rigel Bentai The following rikishi are unavailable for trade: Hakuho Kakuryu Asanoyama Takayasu Mitakeumi Enho Tochinoshin Kaisei Kenning fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 05:39
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Mekchu posted:Very tempted to hop on the Endo bangwagon but I'd drop more points than I think it will end up being worth. No point in picking up Endo for his kinboshi, those only count if they're scored while he's on your team. Actually, since you asked I double-checked the scores and I'd accidentally marked Kakuryu as a win on day 1, so I fixed that and updated the scores. On day 1 you only got 1 point, from Asanoyama. On Day 2 you got 4 points, from Kakuryu, Asanoyama, Takarafuji, and Tsurugisho. You might be confused because your draft picks included 3 guys at each rank, but your team only has 1 guy at each rank. The point of choosing 3 per rank just makes it possible for me to do the draft with the limitations on how many people can have a given wrestler at one time. The rules and scoring can be found here. It's pretty straightforward right now: you get 1 point per win. If someone gets a kinboshi that's 2 points. Later on we'll start notching winning records and losing records, which are 1 point and -.5 points respectively. Then at the end there are special prizes, the yusho, and the jun yusho. Since I fill out the spreadsheet manually I occasionally make mistakes, like with Kakuryu. However, I reference with Sumo DB as I score up, so I generally catch it before the end of the tournament, and basically double-check everything when scoring on the final Sunday. As far as I know I've never had a mistake on the final scores.
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Jan 14, 2020 07:14
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Lone Goat posted:show us the spreadsheet!!!!!! It's a really awful spreadsheet and I'm frankly embarrassed about it. Here's a copy people can view and edit. If someone out there isn't garbage with spreadsheets and wanted to make a more efficient one I wouldn't mind at all.
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Jan 14, 2020 08:06
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Charles Gnarwin posted:This is my first ever basho and I'm easing my way in by just watching the big matches uploaded by Jason's Sumo YouTube channel but I'm loving it. I always liked watching it on TV as a kid when I was on vacation in Hawaiʻi and understanding more of it as an adult makes it so much more fun. Welcome to sumo! Jason is a great way to get started. My first year or so watching was just Jason, then I watched Jason and Kintamayama once I started recognizing some of the lower rank guys. I also highly recommend the Grand Sumo Breakdown podcast. Go listen to their Intro to Hatsu 2020 episode, they'll have a midway episode out sometime this weekend. We've got some kinboshi on the board this basho! I don't know if Hakuho has ever given up 2 in a row. That's pretty intense. It's also made for some interesting scoreboard shakeups! Day 3 standings code:
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Jan 15, 2020 01:59
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Hakuho kyujo. Get your trades in, y/o ranks are gonna have no restrictions, since there will only be 2 options between Takakeisho and Kakuryu.
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Jan 15, 2020 02:32
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What this really means for fantasy is that the y/o ranks don't mean as much as they could. Unless I hear otherwise I'm going to assume people want Takakeisho, rather than Goeido, and just give him to people starting day 5. I've already factored in Hakuho's day 4 absence, and I'll have the results up shortly.
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Jan 16, 2020 05:56
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We have the weirdest leaderboard right now: Shodai, Kagayaki, and Terutsuyoshi are all undefeated on day 5. With both yokozuna out and Goeido and Takayasu looking awful, I have no idea how this is going to shake out. Some really good bouts though! I've processed everyone's trades, including the automatic trade to Takakeisho for anyone who hadn't said otherwise. Day 5 standings code:Kenning Robviously Marching Powder fisting by many Spokes bessantj Rigel Sivad Bentai Scythe Martytoof Thauros ratmosphere Mekchu
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Jan 16, 2020 19:30
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coconono posted:Oh jeez, I thought he got better after the first hospital visit and dang: Yeah... I think I remember hearing that Musashigawa-oyakata was spending some time with him while he was in the hospital. I feel bad when I think about Akebono 
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Jan 16, 2020 21:23
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Chiganoura-oyakata deserves a lot of credit for keeping Takakeisho strong. From what I remember when he got his injury that lost him ozeki the first time he wanted to fight through it, and then later he tried to come back and fight again before he was fully healed up, and both times Chiganoura didn't let him compete, even though it cost him ozeki. That's amazing foresight and discipline, and as a result we have a Takakeisho that's probably at about 85-90% right now, and who will probably be back at 100% at Haru. Bruce on Tachiai pointed out that Taganoura-oyakata, by contrast, let both Kisenosato and Takayasu get injured and keep fighting, and now Kise is retired and Takayasu looks weak and disordered, when he should have been in contention to make yokozuna. It would be great if some lessons are taken from Takakeisho/Chiganoura, but honestly who knows. Marching Powder posted:ooo, i just had an idea. is there a prize for the fantasy basho champion? if there isn't, i'm willing to donate a new avatar / plat to the winner just to make things a bit more fun. please just let me know if ya'll want me to stand by this. We've never had a prize for fantasy before, but it sounds fun to me! So far it's just been for fun/bragging rights, but I think things like this are always more fun with stakes. Mekchu posted:I'm gonna hop on the Salt Bae bandwagon and drop Tsurugisho for him. Just in time! Trade registered. fisting by many posted:Well that was a disaster of a day. 1-4 and Tsurugisho finished in a wheelchair Trade registered. Day 6 standings code:Kenning fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 18:31
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Gang tag sounds super cool! I'd love to see Fantasy Sumo championship tags going around.
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Jan 17, 2020 23:34
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Mekchu posted:General players tag 
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Jan 18, 2020 02:46
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Brut posted:Day 7: Oh, absolutely. I mostly like henka, but I understand why people complain about some of the more blatant side-steps at the tachiai. Others, like the one you mentioned, are the obvious response to someone who is charging too low, or who didn't keep their eyes on you. Perfectly correct strategy. I'm stoked on the gang tags! Someday I'll be Yokogoona. Day 6 standings: code:
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Jan 18, 2020 18:42
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I still can't get over the Enho vs. Yutakayama "just stand up at the tachiai" move from the last basho. I laugh every time I think of it.
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Jan 19, 2020 05:22
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loving lol.
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Jan 19, 2020 06:02
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+1 for the gang tag, I'm excited to be a Goonzeki.Fluffdaddy posted:I didn’t know the thread moved somehow and I feel sadness Welcome back! The new thread is very lively! Tonfa posted:My sincere thanks to whoever decided to move the topic to this subforum, sumo is vastly more entertaining than I could have ever thought possible I've hosted parties where I serve sake and onigiri and I put sumo on a big TV and everyone who attends ends up making essentially this observation. It's a really fun sport to watch and follow! Great day of bouts, Enho v. Endo was amazingly fought. Too bad to see all the top guys in rough shape, but we're getting some solid fights. Yutakayama v. Terutsuyoshi was also excellent. We're gonna start getting KK and MK in fantasy in the next couple days! Nakabi standings: code:
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Jan 20, 2020 02:17
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Aoiyama seems like a pretty nice, humble guy. A couple years ago Tachiai posted a translated interview with him from 2015 that's a pretty good read.
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Jan 20, 2020 06:02
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My favorite thing about Chiyomaru is that he's a huge goofball, especially on the jungyo tour. He has a running bit that he used to post on Instagram (idk if he's still allowed to after the social media mini-scandal a couple months ago) where he'd find a wrestler who was taking a nap, and then shake their shoulder to wake them up and say "Hey hey hey! You look tired, you should get some rest while you can." It was funny every single time. Sorry for the late results, busy day today! Day 9 standings code:
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Jan 21, 2020 10:18
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Great set of bouts today! Aoiyama v. Terutsuoyoshi ruled, Shodai v. Shohozan was awesome. Even with all the injuries and kyujo this is shaping up to be a really exciting basho. First round of kachi-koshi have come in! Things are gonna be all over the place from now until the final Sunday. Day 10 standings code:
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Jan 22, 2020 04:40
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