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Rigel
Nov 11, 2016



Live (in the middle of the god drat night) from the kokugikan in Tokyo, welcome to the May basho! (5/10-5/24) (note: The May tournament has been cancelled. The next tournament (maybe) is scheduled for late July) Are you desperate to watch enormously fat men slam into each other at full speed while wearing nothing more than a simple loincloth? Well, then you have come to the right place!

The need-to-know:

Sumo 101

Watch this video first for a quick summary of a lot of the following info, and an appetizer of some exciting matches.

Kimarite

http://www.chijanofuji.com/Kimarite.html - list of kimarite (winning technique), which used to link to an excellent graphic on the official sumo.or.jp site. However, with the newer sumo site the links seem to have gone dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimarite - almost no images either, but a full list with both English and Japanese spellings
http://www16.plala.or.jp/mr001/32sotoga.html - Flash-animated kimarite, but only in Japanese

The Biggest Websites in the World

http://www.sumo.or.jp/en/index

Your one-stop-shop for all current information on current rankings and tournament records.

https://tachiai.org/

This is THE central website for sumo amongst western nerds.

http://heyaaz.nagioff.com/2019/2019.html

Here is another good link, including profiles for oyakata, hairdressers, and whatnot.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/

For the nerds and spergs, a site that will have a familiar feel to those who have used sites like baseball-reference. If you can't find records here, I wouldn't know where else to look. It helps to know what "rikishi" (wrestler), "banzuke" (tournament), and "yusho" (tournament victory) mean when navigating this site.

http://www.sumoforum.net

The other socially acceptable place for sumo discussions free of yaocho theories and general shitposting, and often a treasure trove of insider information. The English-speaking sumo community is a small one, so members that would be considered celebrities are active in nearly every thread, including Kintamayama (provider of the main YouTube stream) and John Gunning (frequent commentator and excellent sumo article contributor). Everyone that wants to follow sumo from basho to basho should lurk on this forum.

https://grandsumobreakdown.wordpress.com/

The Grand Sumo Breakdown is a decent podcast that bills itself as the "unofficial sumo podcast for real sumo fans."

Two Men Enter - None, One, or Both of them Exit

The objective of the sport is simple - make your opponent leave the 15ft-diameter ring or make him touch the ground with any part of his (or her, if you're into that kinda thing) body, other than with the bottoms of his feet, before you. Sometimes the match is over in 2 seconds when one wrestler does a quick sidestep and trip, sometimes it lasts over a minute and ends with both wrestlers crashing over the side of the dohyo while locked on to each others' mawashi (the giant adult Depends). Yes, grabbing onto the mawashi is not only legal, but it is also one of the most effective ways of winning. When both wrestlers hit the deck, the first one to hit the ground loses.

How does the match start? When the ref, or gyoji, gives the signal after prep time, the wrestlers spend a few moments burning a hole through each other with their eyes, then it begins drag-racing style. Once both wrestlers have all 4 combined fists touching their starting lines, the match is off with a thunderous collision.

Yokozuna Hakuho

Hakuho is, simply put, the greatest sumo wrestler of all time. Seriously, this man is such an overwhelming goliath in the sport, to the point where he probably needs his own little section in this OP.

We know very little about the sport of sumo in the 1800's and prior, other than it was still a real sport back then which was regularly contested, using mostly the same rules that we are familiar with today. So, we have win-loss records going back hundreds of years.

When we say that Hakuho is the GOAT, we don't just mean "greatest right now" or best in "modern times". This is an ancient sport, and he is widely regarded as the best sumo wrestler, ever. As in, EVER, since the sport was invented. He has the perfect body for sumo, not too fat, not too small, very athletic (when he is healthy, age is now catching up to him), and his sumo brain is very fast, when his opponent makes the smallest mistake or is the least bit off-center, he reacts immediately to push him out or dump him on the clay.

Was E. Honda Really a Sumo Wrestler?

Yes and no. Believe it or not, the hundred-hands-slap move of his is probably the closest to reality. Big and tall rikishi will often palm-slap smaller guys right from the start and quickly overwhelm them out of the ring. So then, what kind of attacks are legal? Well, just about anything other than hair-pulling, closed-fist punches, biting, gouging, and kicks to anywhere but the legs. Pretty much all of those moves would be ineffective if legal anyway, since Sumo wrestlers are trained to be nearly unfazed by a palm to the face from another 350lb rikishi with a bad attitude.

For a sport that consists of two enormous men pushing and shoving at each other, there are a surprising lot of official techniques, or kimarite, for winning (see above).

Yorikiri (pushing them out while maintaining a grip on the mawashi) and oshidashi (pushing them out without holding onto the mawashi) are very common for large wrestlers, while successful smaller wrestlers will regularly dazzle viewers with more difficult techniques.

Oh, and weight divisions? gently caress off.

The Tri-Hundred Pound Tournament

Sumo is a year-round sport, with 6 tournaments a year spaced every 2 months - January, March, May, July, September, and November. Three are in Tokyo, one in Osaka, one in Nagoya, and one in Fukuoka. Each tournament consists of 15 days, with each wrestler having one match each day for a record anywhere from 0-15 to 15-0. The tournament starts in the morning with the lower divisions consisting of strong kids that haven't gotten fat yet and fat fucks that can't lift for poo poo, progression to the juryo division (minor leagues/relegated rikishi) and finally to the big show - the makuuchi division. Each day opens up in the morning with the lower divisions, with the makuuchi finally starting in the late afternoon.

So why do a bunch of 2 to 60 second-long matches take all loving day to complete? That is because sumo isn't just a sport, it has extremely ceremonious roots. The foot stamping was/is to ward away evil spirits (while also serving as a form of intimidation), while throwing salt into the ring is symbolic of purifying the ring. Modern-day translation - they take their sweet rear end time getting ready for each faceoff until your Western balls turn purple from delayed violence. The rikishi get at least one round of foot-stamping and staring at each other at the line before the gyoji gives the signal for "THIS time poo poo's gonna get real, f'sho" by holding out his fan and getting into an open stance between the wrestlers. This signals that the next time they approach the line that they are to go into drag-racer mode. Lower divisions usually just get the one round of prep/psyching, while makuuchi rikishi often get at least 3 rounds, plus a sip of water and/or a washcloth for the highest-ranked competitors. The latter rounds can take several minutes for a few seconds of action.

The Food Chain

Each division is split into "East" vs "West", which only refers to which side of the ring they enter in (most) matchups. Aside from that, with exceptions in the top makuuchi division, rankings are simply "East/West (Division Name) (1 through n/2)". There are no more than 40 makuuchi wrestlers at any given tournament, the lowest of which are ranked maegashira 1 through ~15, then 1-3 komusubi, 1-3 sekiwake, anywhere from 0-5 ozeki, and as many as 4 yokozuna.

The matchups and rankings are done via the Starcraft ladder system. Each tournament, wrestlers generally draw the 15 other wrestlers closest in rank to them. This means some of the lower maegashira rikishi don't have to wrestle the yokozuna or ozeki, while the yokozuna and ozeki generally have to wrestle every single one of the top-ranking wrestlers. Due to this, a record of 8-7 (kachi-koshi) over a tournament is the de facto standard for keeping your rank through to the next tournament. A losing record (make-koshi) in the lowest makuuchi ranks generally means a trip down to the juryo division for the next tournament. A great winning record can result in jumping from maegashira 15 up several ranks, even to komusubi. However, to progress from komusubi, to sekiwake, and finally to ozeki, a record greater than 8-7 is needed - usually 10-5 through 12-3. Ozeki often takes more than one tournament of good performance to attain - the sumo elders are the ones who decide on that particular promotion. The same goes for yokozuna, although the de facto standard these days is to win two consecutive tournaments. So yes, you can miss out on becoming yokozuna if you go 14-1 in two consecutive tournaments as an ozeki, but someone else wins in each case by going 15-0. Once you attain yokozuna, you are yokozuna for life. You cannot be demoted, although you are pretty much expected to retire if you can't maintain a winning record at any time after becoming yokozuna. You can, however, be demoted from ozeki for a couple of consecutive bad showings (two consecutive make-koshi), and from komusubi/sekiwake for even one bad tournament.

The Big Kahunas

Currently there are two yokozuna and two ozeki. One of those 4 can be expected to win pretty much every tournament, so the most exciting matches of the day will involve any of them. They are:

Hakuho - Mongolia - Yokozuna - the GOAT, quite simply.
Kakuryu - Mongolia - Yokozuna - somewhat underachieving and defensive Yokozuna who often pulls off incredible shifts in mawashi grips
Takakeisho - Japan - Ozeki - Still a very young Ozeki, Takakeisho carries the very heavy hope of Japan on his big shoulders as the next possible Japanese Yokozuna, along with possibly Asanoyama at Sekiwake. Takakeisho is a "pusher/thruster" rikishi who usually wins by oshi-dashi or hataki-komi.
Goeido - Japan - Ozeki - somewhat disappointing Ozeki, but nobody really expected him to ever make a Yokozuna run. Frequently in kadoban status (make-koshi in the last basho, meaning a kachi-koshi is required to stay at Ozeki).
Takayasu - Japan - Sekiwake - He is from Kisenosato's heya (stable), half-Filipino, but native Japanese. After back to back losing records, Takayasu has been demoted to Sekiwake. In January, Takayasu will get a one time only chance to regain his Ozeki rank with 10+ wins.

Others

Enho - Enho is one of the smallest men in sumo, so obviously he has several tricks up his sleeveless sleeves to survive with the big men. His style is, in a word, "frantic". He is pure speed and action, always trying to spin around and outflank his opponent to gain any possible advantage that his little body can get.

Terutsuyoshi - An otherwise unremarkable low-ranked wrestler, I only mentioned him because in some corners of the internet he is known as "salt bae". There really aren't any rules on how much salt you can grab and throw during the whole "glare at each other and purify the ring with salt" phase of the match, some rikishi just grab a tiny pinch, most grab and throw a handful, and salt bae does..... well, he gives no fucks and does his own thing, and we're just supposed to accept it as normal.

Here is a very good match between these two rikishi, featuring Terutsuyoshi in all his salty glory, and Enho pulling off a very nifty throw, since he has to rely always on technique and speed to win. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IVw96uXROs

Paying By The Pound

Much like any popular national sports, sumo wrestlers are divided into the haves and the have-nots. First and foremost, if you're not in the juryo or the makuuchi divisions, you earn jack poo poo outside of a daily all-you-can-eat buffet. And even if I were completely broke, I wouldn't take a daily gorgefest if it meant I'd be treated as wrestlers in those divisions are treated - as maids and as target practice. Once you make it to juryo, you've hit the big leagues. Minimum salaries for juryo wrestlers work out to be around $120k in the US, working up to about a $400k base salary for the Yokozuna. In a lot of big national sports, this isn't a lot of money. However, there are a few bonuses that wrestlers can earn for both one-time and permanent increases to their salary.

Kensho - Bonus sponsor money for individual matches, where the winner gets to take the stack of cash home. When you see a brief parade of banners before a particular bout, those are the advertisers who have each paid 60k yen (over $600) for a banner. The winner is given half the cash from each banner fee in a stack at the end of the match, which he accepts by first waving his right hand over the stack. A small amount of the rest is deducted to pay for the banner, and the rest is deposited into the rikishi's account. To put this in perspective, if there were 8 banners for a match, the winner would receive a bonus of approximately $5,000. Since ozeki and yokozuna almost always have a full house of kensho before their matches, that's an additional ~$75,000 they can earn per tournament. Therefore a dominating yokozuna or ozeki can virtually double his base salary over a year from kensho alone.

Mochikyukin - Thanks to "pigdog" for this explanation -

The tl;dr version of mochikyukin - if you win a tournament, beat the yokozuna as a ranked makuuchi rikishi, or win a special prize from a tournament, you get a sizeable and permanent bonus to your salary.

Other - Aside from salaries and bonuses, rikishi are able to supplement their income with advertising revenue and koenkai, which is kind of like a fan club where the wrestler actually makes a lot of appearances. As expected, these are heavily regulated by the sumo association.

Scandalous Fat Fucks

Unfortunately, as a lucrative and ancient Japanese sport, there has undeniably been corruption. Known members of the yakuza have been known to be seen watching from expensive front-row seats, while 2011 was rocked by a match-fixing scandal. Seriously, you mean there is match-fixing in professional wrestling?

This resulted in an entire tournament in 2011 being canceled, with another one held only as an exhibition with no actual prizes. Fortunately for the real money draws, none of the top wrestlers were implicated by the scandal.

All Right, I Want to Watch Fatties Bang

Unfortunately, options are not plentiful outside of Japan. NHK World recently started a free online channel that can be used to watch highlights from the previous day with glorious HD and with English commentary. Only around half of the makuuchi matches are shown, but nearly all of the relevant matches for the day are usually covered. The highlights are shown live multiple times a day, and then are avaialable on-demand after a certain amount of time.

If you are willing to spend around 4 bucks a month, the official Sumo app (Android|Apple) is a convenient way to watch videos from the previous day. The videos are great quality, however one huge negative is that you can't pull up the videos without seeing the result in advance. So, it is useless if you're trying to watch spoiler-free. The app is nice, but likely not worth the money for most casual fans. Another feature of the app is that they have a rotating series of hard-to-find videos to stream. One month they had every one of Chiyonofuji's famous streak of wins, another had videos of many famous rikishi on their hatsu-dohyo (debut) - back when some of them were well under 200 lbs and had very short hair, and another month had videos of yokozuna as far back as the 1800s.

Other than that, it's up to a few somewhat reliable YouTube members who keep us outside of Japan up to date. A few channels:

I have to mention Kintamayama, otherwise someone will think I forgot to mention him. As of senshuraku on November 2019, Kintamayama has retired from his lucrative career of posting sumo match summaries for western nerds who couldn't stay up late enough to watch the matches live.

Just in case Kinta lied to us and he's not really retired, his channel can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/user/Kintamayama

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe...IZ6z80to7yvB6ww (or if that link does not work, then search youtube for "D i") - This is D i's channel on youtube, he streams abema's coverage live and immediately deletes the stream after the matches are over. There is a community of sorts on his channel, but the community is a bit toxic. The live play by play for the matches is in Japanese.

https://www.youtube.com/user/JasonsinJapan - This channel is updated by some dude named Jason who has been an English/History teacher in Japan for many years. His channel has more of a "casual guy relaxing on the couch" vibe to it, and he only shows the 6 or 7 important matches of the day which might matter for the final standings in the tournament. He's pretty good at explaining basic sumo things to newbies who may have stumbled into his channel.

mbovosumo on twitch - This is the main source for English-language live sumo on the internet, and you can watch the replays the following day. Beware, the moderation in this channel is painfully strict. This channel is full of nerds who will want you muted within their precious little channel if you are even perceived as just being disrespectful to a rikishi.

karla_marxist on twitch - I haven't visited her channel, but a few people whose opinion I respect say that her channel is also good. She supposedly streams the japanese-language stream from abema. (does she switch to NHK?)

I'm pretty sure there are at least 1 or 2 more live streams on twitch.

Rigel fucked around with this message at 17:28 on May 4, 2020

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rare Magic card l00k
Jan 3, 2011

Me uni a la Revolucion #RXT


el sabe ...


Hakuho is the best.

Kenning
Jan 10, 2009

I really want to post goatse. I wish I had 10bux




We have a Fantasy Sumo Tournament that we run most basho. It's pretty fun, and on the player's side, pretty easy. The banzuke is divided into 5 sections, and you get a wrestler at each section to earn you points. You submit a slate of guys for the draft (3 at each section) and then they get picked based on your position on a wire. It's a fun way to follow wrestlers at the bottom of the division.

I'll be doing the draft the Saturday before the basho starts, so feel free to join in! Here are the full rules:

Basic rules

Every player will have a stable of 5 wrestlers. The wrestlers will be from the following ranks:

1 from the yokozuna/ozeki ranks
1 from the sekiwake/komusubi ranks
1 from maegashira 1-5
1 from maegashira 6-10
1 from maegashira 11+

Wrestlers in a stable will gain points for winning bouts and also from achievements like getting a kinboshi or winning the tournament etc. There will also be a couple of ways that points will be deducted from a stable (make-koshi and trading penalties).

Drafting

A wrestler can only be in a limited number of stables. This number will be a fraction of the total number of people in the league, and whoever is running the league can adjust it for every rank level. For example, perhaps a wrestler could only be held by 1/3 (rounded down) of the players in the league. That means in a league of 10 players, only 3 can have the same wrestler at the same time.

For the draft, each player makes a ranked list of the 3 wrestlers they would like at every rank level. Once these lists have all been submitted, the draft randomizes, and then applies the picks in a snake (i.e. y/o picks go ABCDE and then s/k picks go EDCBA and then m1-5 picks go ABCDE etc.). If someone's 1st choice is full by the time the snake reaches them, it takes their second choice, and so on. The randomized list for the draft will be used for the trading wire, but reversed (i.e. if the draft is ABCDE then the wire will start at EDCBA on day 1).

Trading

Players can trade for the first 7 days of the tournament. All trading stops once bouts start on nakabi, or middle Sunday. To trade, you choose a wrestler from a given rank set to get rid of, and another from the same set to pick up. Trading follows the same rules as drafting in that if, say, 1/3 of the people in the league have a given wrestler you cannot choose them in a trade. Trades must be submitted before 4 pm Japan time each day to be valid for that day. The trades will be processed at 4 pm Japan time. There is free trading before matches start on day 1. Once the basho starts, everyone gets on free trade. The second trade incurs a -.5 point penalty, and every subsequent trade is a -1 point penalty.

Priorities in terms of conflicts in a trade will be determined by the trading wire, i.e. someone in 1st position in the wire will beat someone in 3rd position if they both want the same wrestler, but only one can get him. Once someone does a trade they are placed at the bottom of the wire, and everyone else moves up. If multiple people trade on the same day, they are placed at the bottom of the wire in the order that they were higher up in the wire. Therefore if the wire for the league is ABCDEF, and A, C, and F trade, then the wire will be BDEACF for the next day.

If 2 people want the same wrestler, but only one can have him, then the person who loses out swaps positions on the bottom of the wire with the person who beat them. Therefore if the wire is ABCDEF and A, C, and F trade, but A gets F's choice because of the wire, then the new wire will be BCEFCA.

Scoring

Points will be granted in the following ways:

1 pt. for each win
5 pts. for the championship or yusho
3 pts for the runner-up, or jun-yusho
3 pts for a special prize, or sansho
2 pts for a gold star victory, or kinboshi
1 pt. for a winning record, or kachi-koshi
-.5 pt. for a losing record, or make-koshi
-.5 pt. for your second trade
-1 pt. for every trade beyond the first 2

There are a couple of special rules in scoring as it relates to trading. You get the make-koshi penalty for a wrestler even if you traded them away. You only get the kachi-koshi score from a wrestler who is in your stable at the end of the tournament. You only get the kinboshi score from a wrestler if they scored the kinboshi while they were in your stable AND if you still have them at the end of the tournament. The jun-yusho points will not be awarded if 3 or more wrestlers are tied for second place in terms of their record.

Here are the tie-breakers, in order:

Yusho
Jun-yusho
Total Sansho
Total Kinboshi
Total kachi-koshi
Fewest trades

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003

 
 


Hi new people. Jump on the Enho and Takayasu bandwagon.


Let's see how well this post ages.

Rigel
Nov 11, 2016



Reposting some January storylines, and a bit of late-breaking drama from Hakuho's stable.

Here are the storylines for January:

Hakuho (the GOAT, and when when we say GOAT, we mean the best in all recorded history going back hundreds of years) is the defending champion. If he's healthy, he's always the heavy favorite.

No one is currently on any kind of Yokozuna or Ozeki run for January. Goeido is kadoban, he needs 8 wins to avoid demotion. Takayasu has been demoted to Sekiwake, he needs 10 wins to regain his Ozeki rank. If he fails, then he starts all over from scratch on the road to promotion back to Ozeki.

Asanoyama had a good tournament at Komusubi, was tied for 2nd behind Hakuho, and was promoted to Sekiwake. It'll be interesting to see if he can keep it up, and he's still fairly young.

Ishiura got into a fistfight with one of his stablemates Hokaho (Ms16W). Yokozuna Hakuho stepped in to break up the fight.



Based on the (translated) reports, it appears that Ishiura instigated it, and it sounds like it was pretty much almost all his fault. Their oyakata reported the incident to the kyokai, so I bet Ishiura will be out of the tournament.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Cabana's legal advice?
I'm bourgeoisie.
I... hit the shitty
firemans carry knee.






Finally Sumo is in the right forum two men enter one man leaves the forum

Now we just need chess

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012





Fluffdaddy posted:

There is some real weird orientalism going on here, to be real.

Marching Powder posted:

If you are talking abou the training methodology from hundreds of years ago now being known as sub-optimal due to the massive advances in science, I disagree. Regardless, I'd like you do expand, because a respect and understanding for cultures of sport I follow is personally important to me.

He's probably referring to people pointing out that in Japan's sports subculture, there is a focus to win or tough it out at the expense of a player/competitors health. Specifically the Hideo Nomo transcript I posted, the guy posting about the HS baseball player, your remarks on Sumo trainings "backwardness."

Which is certainly an odd hill to die.

Rigel
Nov 11, 2016



Here's the banzuke for January 2020:

code:
 East                    Rank                   West

Hakuho (*)             Yokozuna                Kakuryu
Takakeisho              Ozeki                  Goeido (~)        
Asanoyama (+)          Sekiwake                Takayasu (-)
Abi                    Komusubi                Daieisho (+)
Endo  (-)                 M1                   Myogiryu
Hokutofuji                M2                   Mitakeumi (-)
Tamawashi                 M3                   Kotoyuki
Okinoumi                  M4                   Shodai
Meisei                    M5                   Enho
Takarafuji                M6                   Tochinoshin (-)
Shohozan                  M7                   Onosho
Aoiyama                   M8                   Ryuden
Takanosho                 M9                   Yutakayama
Sadanoumi                 M10                  Ishiura
Chiyotairyu               M11                  Kagayaki
Tsurugisho                M12                  Chiyomaru
Kotoshogiku               M13                  Kotoeko
Terutsuyoshi              M14                  Shimanoumi 
Azumaryu (+)              M15                  Ikioi (+)
Tochiozan (+)             M16                  Kaisei (+)
Kiribayama (+)            M17                  Tokushoryu (+)

Rigel
Nov 11, 2016



Kenning posted:

We have a Fantasy Sumo Tournament

I'll go with this for now in the draft

Y/O: Hakuho/Kakuryu/Takakeisho
S/K: Asanoyama/Takayasu/Abi
M1-5: Enho/Endo/Okinoumi
M6-10: Aoiyama/Onosho/Ryuden
M11+: Kaisei/Ikioi/Kotoeko

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008

A group of very serious old men sat around and discussed whether or not I had the requisite dignity and grace of a grand champion.


Mekchu posted:

He's probably referring to people pointing out that in Japan's sports subculture, there is a focus to win or tough it out at the expense of a player/competitors health. Specifically the Hideo Nomo transcript I posted, the guy posting about the HS baseball player, your remarks on Sumo trainings "backwardness."

Which is certainly an odd hill to die.

Yeah it was my impression. I hope it isn't though, because abusing your athletes is hosed up and I don't care what culture it's a part of or how many thousands of years it's been going on.

Anyway, something amazing just crossed my mind: 160kg? Check. Strong enough to bully 400lbs of non-human hormones in games of strength? Check. Popular in Japan? Check. Ladies and gentlemen, a surprise at the January basho: Mark 'The Super Samoannnnnnnnn' Hunnnnnnnnnnnnnt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prif_SUe6DI

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008

A group of very serious old men sat around and discussed whether or not I had the requisite dignity and grace of a grand champion.


Rigel posted:

Here's the banzuke for January 2020:

code:
 East                    Rank                   West

Hakuho (*)             Yokozuna                Kakuryu
Takakeisho              Ozeki                  Goeido (~)        
Asanoyama (+)          Sekiwake                Takayasu (-)
Abi                    Komusubi                Daieisho (+)
Endo  (-)                 M1                   Myogiryu
Hokutofuji                M2                   Mitakeumi (-)
Tamawashi                 M3                   Kotoyuki
Okinoumi                  M4                   Shodai
Meisei                    M5                   Enho
Takarafuji                M6                   Tochinoshin (-)
Shohozan                  M7                   Onosho
Aoiyama                   M8                   Ryuden
Takanosho                 M9                   Yutakayama
Sadanoumi                 M10                  Ishiura
Chiyotairyu               M11                  Kagayaki
Tsurugisho                M12                  Chiyomaru
Kotoshogiku               M13                  Kotoeko
Terutsuyoshi              M14                  Shimanoumi 
Azumaryu (+)              M15                  Ikioi (+)
Tochiozan (+)             M16                  Kaisei (+)
Kiribayama (+)            M17                  Tokushoryu (+)

Am I reading this right? There's only 1 Komusubi, Sekiwake, Ozeki, and Yokozuna and the rest are Maegashira? Is that normal? I heard you could have like, 4 Yokozunas at once. What's the deal-eo?

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008

A group of very serious old men sat around and discussed whether or not I had the requisite dignity and grace of a grand champion.


Also I'll pass on the picks for this tournament. I don't really know anyone except for Tochinoshin and Hakuho so I'll get my bearings and figure out whose jib I like the cut of.

rare Magic card l00k
Jan 3, 2011

Me uni a la Revolucion #RXT


el sabe ...


Marching Powder posted:

Am I reading this right? There's only 1 Komusubi, Sekiwake, Ozeki, and Yokozuna and the rest are Maegashira? Is that normal? I heard you could have like, 4 Yokozunas at once. What's the deal-eo?

There are two of each of those first four, then the rest Maegashira.

You can rise to Yokozuna, at which point you're Yokozuna for life, but it's a title that has to be earned, generally by doing something incredible like winning two straight tournaments as Ozeki. In theory you could have a ton of Yokozuna, or you could have none.

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008

A group of very serious old men sat around and discussed whether or not I had the requisite dignity and grace of a grand champion.


rare Magic card l00k posted:

There are two of each of those first four, then the rest Maegashira.

You can rise to Yokozuna, at which point you're Yokozuna for life, but it's a title that has to be earned. In theory you could have a ton of Yokozuna, or you could have none.

Ah yes, forgot about the east and west thing. Much obliged.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003

 
 


Letís get this party started!

Y/O: Kakuryu/Takakeisho/Goeido
S/K: Takayasu/Abi/Daieisho
M1-5: Enho/Tamawashi/Mitakeumi
M6-10: Tochinoshin/Ryuden/Onosho
M11+: Kagayaki/Ikioi/Sadanoumi

I think thatís correct. Let me know if I need to adjust.

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008

A group of very serious old men sat around and discussed whether or not I had the requisite dignity and grace of a grand champion.


As a further exhibit to my Mark Hunt should do sumo crusade that I've just started and won't stop, please skip to 1.06 of the following video to watch a perfect Makiotoshi (I think) followed by some perfect highly illegal sumo things performed on an extremely dangerous 260 pound steroid golem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGzOqzN-cns

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

Several sumo wrestlers have gone the other way and tried out MMA. The most successful was Baruto, who got 3 wins against legit fighters before being massively overmatched against Crocop, a guy who was a top 10 heavyweight for more than a decade. He seems to have hung it up for good though and he's apparently a politician now.

Robviously
Aug 21, 2010

Genius. Billionaire. Playboy. Philanthropist.



I'll hop aboard for fantasy:

Y/O: Takakeisho/Hakuho/Kakuryu
S/K: Daieisho/Asanoyama/Abi
M1: Hokutofuji/Okinoumi/Enho
M6: Yutakayama/Takarafuji/Onosho
M11: Kaisei/Tochiozan/Ikioi

Rigel
Nov 11, 2016



Konstantin posted:

Several sumo wrestlers have gone the other way and tried out MMA. The most successful was Baruto, who got 3 wins against legit fighters before being massively overmatched against Crocop, a guy who was a top 10 heavyweight for more than a decade. He seems to have hung it up for good though and he's apparently a politician now.

Yeah, Baruto has progressed to the point of "beloved western white sumo guy" in Japanese culture. He is doing very well for himself in Japan's sumo kyokai, and he's a well-liked "western" media personality.

Brut
Aug 21, 2007

Герой Советского Союза



OP corrections/additions as I spot them:

Kintamayama said he retired but then kept posting videos (and faster than before he "retired"), so who knows. Either way, should include a link to his channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kintamayama

And in case he actually stops posting, also a link to Natto's channel of similar compilations:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz...3IyxLWOCGKpcP0g

Also for the twitch viewing, links to both mbovo and Karla:
https://www.twitch.tv/mbovosumo
https://www.twitch.tv/karla_marxist

Banzuke is the rankings list for the tournament, tournament is Basho. (You obviously already know this but the post doesn't reflect that in one spot)

Would also like to include a link to this site:
http://heyaaz.nagioff.com/2019/2019.html
This has the pictures of every single Rikishi and Oyakata, as well as all Tokoyama (hairdressers), Gyoji (refs), Yobidashi (announcers) and other staff, the pictures are taken once a year and go back to about the year 2000(click on a picture to see all the old ones), and clicking on a name will take you to their SumoDB entry. It also lets you quickly browse by stable if you want to get a feel for the strength of a specific one.

This one I'm not too sure about, but I believe only Kinboshi (beating Yokozuna as M#) gets a permanent salary increase, I think the prizes (Shukun-sho/Kanto-sho/Gino-sho) are just a one time bonus sum, I'm not 100% on that though so please correct if I'm wrong.

Also Jason is a history teacher not an English teacher .

As for the number of guys at each rank, it's supposed to be 2 komusubi and 2 sekiwake, but sometimes it isn't, for example most recently in November we had 4 Komusubi, and it was somewhat plausible that we would have ended up with 3 or 4 sekiwake this tournament but they decided not to do it (sorry Abi).

In theory the Yokozuna and Ozeki are supposed to win most tournaments, but in practice:


Our current Ozeki are constantly injured and showing mediocre performances, Takakeisho is now an Ozeki but wasn't when he won there, now that I'm looking at it, the last time an Ozeki won was Kisenosato, the now retired Yokozuna.

Brut fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Jan 6, 2020

Rigel
Nov 11, 2016



Our local boy (Wakaichiro, probably the most well-known young American prospect in sumo) is Sd64E for this tournament. A tough fall for him after going 2-5 for November, but at least they still kept him in the Sandanme rank in January.

Rigel fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Jan 6, 2020

Brut
Aug 21, 2007

Герой Советского Союза



Rigel posted:

Our local boy (Wakaichiro, probably the most well-known young American prospect in sumo) is Sd64E for this tournament. A tough fall for him after going 2-5 for November, but at least they still kept him in the Sandamne rank in January.

Here he is visiting home during the holidays:

https://twitter.com/mmykrs/status/1210749819532107777

Rigel
Nov 11, 2016



Brut posted:

OP corrections/additions as I spot them:

I added that awesome DB link, as well as Karla's twitch channel to the OP.

NienNunb
Feb 15, 2012

still a threat



Hi all 2019 was the year of me dipping my smallest toe into the world of Sumo and its the coolest, realest poo poo I've ever seen. Something about the balance of having like 10 minutes of beautiful, nearly millennium-old rituals followed by <30 seconds of combat just works for me.

Rigel
Nov 11, 2016



Brut posted:

In theory the Yokozuna and Ozeki are supposed to win most tournaments, but in practice:

For some reason, I always get just a little bit happier when Kakuryu wins a yusho. We all know that he would have been remembered as a great yokozuna, if you-know-who didn't exist.

Scythe
Jan 26, 2004


Picks:

Y/O: Kakuryuu, Hakuhou, Takakeishou (wow, this is light at the moment)
S/K: Asanoyama, Takayasu, Abi
M1-5: Mitakeumi, Enho, Kotoyuuki
M6-10: Takanosho, Shohouzan, Sadanoumi
M11+: Kaisei, Tochiouzan, Kiribayama

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008

A group of very serious old men sat around and discussed whether or not I had the requisite dignity and grace of a grand champion.



Can someone give me a brief overview of what these sorts of numbers are?

Kenning
Jan 10, 2009

I really want to post goatse. I wish I had 10bux




"Sd" means "sandanme", which is the third division of 6 (from lowest to highest, jonokuchi, jonidan, sandanme, makushita, juryo, makuuchi). "64" is the 64th slot on the banzuke for that division, while "E" means "east". The top 4 division have fixed numbers of wrestlers, while the bottom two have a rough number that varies tournament to tournament. Each rank has two levels, east and west. Thus, you'll have juryo 8 east, and juryo 8 west, or j8e and j8w. The east side is considered more prestigious and marginally higher in rank than the west. The east/west division is an interesting side effect of the fact that the banzuke isn't just the abstract idea of rank, but an actual written document on a piece of paper, which is written in two columns. There's all sorts of ephemera around this, like how if there are 3 yokozuna and 3 ozeki the 3rd yokozuna will be y2e, while the 3rd ozeki will be o3w in order to "balance" the two columns. There used to be a thing where "east" would compete against "west" over the course of the tournament for total wins but that got discarded some time ago (I can't remember where I learned this, I'd love if someone remembers the details).

Marching Powder posted:

Also I'll pass on the picks for this tournament. I don't really know anyone except for Tochinoshin and Hakuho so I'll get my bearings and figure out whose jib I like the cut of.

I'll say, doing fantasy is what got me to follow the lower-ranked guys. It's hard when you're starting out to figure out who's worth cheering for other than the few flashy top-rankers. I'm still a Yutakayama fan because I randomly picked him for my bottom-rank slot the first time I did fantasy. You can just pick some random dudes at the right ranks and then enjoy having more to focus on during the low-ranked bouts!

Rigel
Nov 11, 2016



Takakeisho participated in practice sessions open to the media, easily winning 10 matches and looking good, very fast.

Kakuryu went for degeiko at another sumo stable, and went 17-4 in 21 matches.

Asanoyama went for degeiko at Kisenosato's stable, and faced ex-kisenosato 17 times. The result: 1-16. yeah....

edit: The YDC Soken was held last night. (Mandatory practice session in front of the grumpy old men who run sumo) Hakuho and Kakuryu each faced Makuuchi wrestlers for 12 matches, and they both won them all. Takayasu went 3-3 in 6 matches.

Rigel fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Jan 6, 2020

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

The magnificent story of Dwayt al-Shrood.



Does sumo not have a big stretching element? It seems like training being so traditional would mean flexibility would big. That massive low ranking fella in the OP seems like he can barely lift his legs.

Elissimpark
May 20, 2010

Its their way to detain, their way to disgrace - their knees in your balls and their fists in your face.



ilmucche posted:

Does sumo not have a big stretching element? It seems like training being so traditional would mean flexibility would big. That massive low ranking fella in the OP seems like he can barely lift his legs.

Can't find a video showing it, but most wrestlers should be able to do splits or near splits and rest their chest on the ground.

Whether they're any good at shiko is another thing.

Edit: here's some flexibility training and some standing on lower rank wrestlers:

https://youtu.be/ULbnZNF2YnQ

Elissimpark fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Jan 6, 2020

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012





I'll hop onto the Fantasy sumo train without much research other than "Hakuho is great"

Does it matter if I pick all guys from East or should I have a mix of East & West Rikishi for my fantasy?


Marching Powder posted:

Yeah it was my impression. I hope it isn't though, because abusing your athletes is hosed up and I don't care what culture it's a part of or how many thousands of years it's been going on.

If that is the argument Fluffdaddy is making then yeah, they're being dumb as hell.

Brut
Aug 21, 2007

Герой Советского Союза



Mekchu posted:

Does it matter if I pick all guys from East or should I have a mix of East & West Rikishi for my fantasy?

East is considered above West in terms of rankings, but it doesn't really matter. For Ozeki/Yokozuna it's a good 1-glance indication of their previous performance relative to each other as they get moved around instead of demoted/promoted most of the time, but like if someone got promoted from m8 to m4 it doesn't really matter if he landed on east or west

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003

 
 


Mekchu posted:

I'll hop onto the Fantasy sumo train without much research other than "Hakuho is great"

Does it matter if I pick all guys from East or should I have a mix of East & West Rikishi for my fantasy?

Until you get to know which rikishi you follow or whose style you like, just pick the guys with the funniest names. Or do what I do when you have no one in a range that appeals to you: pick a random name.

bessantj
Jul 27, 2004




Rigel posted:

Asanoyama went for degeiko at Kisenosato's stable, and faced ex-kisenosato 17 times. The result: 1-16. yeah....

Just makes you think "what could have been"

Mekchu posted:

I'll hop onto the Fantasy sumo train without much research other than "Hakuho is great"

Does it matter if I pick all guys from East or should I have a mix of East & West Rikishi for my fantasy?

All East or all West or a mix, it doesn't matter. Sometimes I've picked wrestlers because I like saying their name.

Fantasy picks:

Y/O: Hakuho/Kakuryu/Takakeisho
S/K: Asanoyama/Takayasu/Daieisho
M1-5: Kotoyuki/Enho/Okinoumi
M6-10: Takanosho/Yutakayama/Ishiura
M11+: Kiribayama/Ikioi/Tsurugisho

Kenning
Jan 10, 2009

I really want to post goatse. I wish I had 10bux




Rigel posted:

Takakeisho participated in practice sessions open to the media, easily winning 10 matches and looking good, very fast.

Kakuryu went for degeiko at another sumo stable, and went 17-4 in 21 matches.

Asanoyama went for degeiko at Kisenosato's stable, and faced ex-kisenosato 17 times. The result: 1-16. yeah....

edit: The YDC Soken was held last night. (Mandatory practice session in front of the grumpy old men who run sumo) Hakuho and Kakuryu each faced Makuuchi wrestlers for 12 matches, and they both won them all. Takayasu went 3-3 in 6 matches.

The YDC isn't even the grumpy old men who run sumo. It's the grumpy old men who are formally invited to give their opinion of things to the (somewhat less grumpy) men who run sumo.

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008

A group of very serious old men sat around and discussed whether or not I had the requisite dignity and grace of a grand champion.


Kenning posted:

I'll say, doing fantasy is what got me to follow the lower-ranked guys. It's hard when you're starting out to figure out who's worth cheering for other than the few flashy top-rankers. I'm still a Yutakayama fan because I randomly picked him for my bottom-rank slot the first time I did fantasy. You can just pick some random dudes at the right ranks and then enjoy having more to focus on during the low-ranked bouts!

that's a great point and a good idea. i'll get around it.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012





Thanks for clarifying East/West differences in the rankings.


Here are my picks

Y/O: Hakuho/Kakuryu/Goiedo
S/K: Asanoyama/Takayasu/Abi
M1-5: Myogiryu/Enho/Hokutofuji
M6-10: Takarafuji/Tochinoshin/Takanosho
M11+: Tsurugisho/Tochiozan/Tokushoryu

Mekchu fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Jan 12, 2020

ChrisBTY
Mar 29, 2012

this glorious monument



I don't follow Sumo but I do have an odd question.
How is Hakuho received in Japan? Beloved legend, foreigner who rankles traditionalists or full "If this was the Tour De France the governing body would do everything in their power to negate his career"?

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Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008

A group of very serious old men sat around and discussed whether or not I had the requisite dignity and grace of a grand champion.


ChrisBTY posted:

I don't follow Sumo but I do have an odd question.
How is Hakuho received in Japan? Beloved legend, foreigner who rankles traditionalists or full "If this was the Tour De France the governing body would do everything in their power to negate his career"?

From what little I've seen, it definitely seems like 'all of the above'. Interested in the actual answer.

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