|
Anyone have any links handy about training events where nuke silo commanders refused to launch and were sacked, or other similar refusals of absolute orders? I’m making a small group study about it in the Army. Not just American, but british, too. I remember reading about British politician Denis Healey, but he isn’t under absolute orders such as a uniformed officer would be. Major Harold Hering of the US Air Force was fired for the hypothetical question of ”how do I know the president is sane?”, speaking of Nixon. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 07:38 on May 19, 2020 |
#
¿
May 19, 2020 07:33
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 14:06 |
|
|
Doomy posted:So is the Cold War solution the nuclear jet or nuclear cattle? A nuke.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 1, 2020 11:21
|
|
|
Why does France maintain a super carrier, and wants more? I do not understand what makes them different from all the other non-US carrier havers? Why not have something smaller like italian Cavour? And does this mean those other countries, including India and Russia, could do the same just like that?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2020 13:06
|
|
|
Thanks for the carrier answers, that was insightful!
|
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2020 17:05
|
|
|
The difference between an actual supercarrier and one of the pocket ones for Harrier slash F-35Bs is pretty stark. Wikipedia says the Italian Cavour carries between 10-16 Harriers and F-35s, where I presume the higher number is total war. On top of that some amount of helicopters. That's compared to Charles De Gaulle that does 30-40 Rafales, plus the support aircraft. That basically gives a napkin math of four times more strike aircraft that take off with larger payload. In addition it doesn't have to overpack. The Spanish Juan Carlos has capacity for 25 AV-8B/F-35B + 6 flight deck parking spots and that's the "total war" setup with no room for anything. And Charles De Gaulle is the smallest of the supercarriers.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2020 20:09
|
|
|
Having our public servants live on penny pinching sets the standard that we should treat them poorly, and that government work isn’t prestigious. That’s bullshit.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 13, 2020 22:21
|
|
|
The Radio Comms between Helge Ingstad and the Sola TS are pretty chilling. The civilian vessel is pretty adamant that they are gonna hit and the officer from Ingstad is just like "eh, nah". Comms here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2BiouzyDsY
|
|
#
¿
Dec 23, 2020 16:21
|
|
|
aphid_licker posted:Where does all that tonnage go? In to the Hjeltefjord fjord.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 23, 2020 17:07
|
|
|
LRADIKAL posted:https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smit...iled-180976581/ drat. The german pilot who flew it was reunited with it in 1990! Dude lived in California! I love the fact that he proved this by looking at his pilot logbook. The world is a small place.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 25, 2020 05:50
|
|
|
I have seen the Finnish mech infantry stuff everyone and anyone into BMP's, and it's a sight to behold when some 6'2'' dudes get folded over in there with a PKM in their lap. Their dismount is like a scene from Ace Ventura.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2021 17:51
|
|
|
Kids these day are so weak... I personally did this BACK IN MY ARMY. (One of them, anyway). Looking back now I am not sure it was super smart. Finnish Army. In the first one the tank drives over. Sometimes you place a satchel or SLAM or something on the back deck. Second one has you in front of track. Can't chicken out before NCO hits you in the head with stick, then you roll out. Also with BMPs, CV90s, and APCs.  
Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Feb 13, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Feb 13, 2021 05:19
|
|
|
Captain Log posted:What a dumb as poo poo way to lose the investment you've put into a soldier. So four euros and 12 months of pea soup and rye bread? Yes, I agree with this being silly but also in Finnish conscription terms, the cost per soldier is extremely low due to huge influx of men, and no salaries paid. I would NOT approach this from euro per soldier angle or they will drive over all of them since it will be cheaper than lubricant.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 13, 2021 14:49
|
|
|
dcs F-14 owns hard. Also Air Power, Italian carrier Cavour getting it's F-35 training on in Norfolk: https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/News-Stories/Article/2503231/italian-navy-aircraft-carrier-its-cavour-arrives-at-naval-station-norfolk/ "NORFOLK, Va. - The Italian Navy flagship, the aircraft carrier ITS Cavour (CVH 550), arrived at Naval Station Norfolk, Va. Feb 13 for a series of operations alongside U.S. military assets to attain the Italian Navy’s “Ready for Operations” certification to safely land and launch F-35B aircraft." The Giuseppe Garibaldi still uses the Harriers as its fighters, and now that Trieste, the THIRD carrier of Italy is planned to become operational in 2022, it will likely also have F-35s. The plans of Italian government keep changing non-stop with their carriers, but it seems that Cavour and Trieste will have F-35s, and Garibaldi will keep harriers and go out of service along with them as they wear out, leaving italy with two long term plane boats. Funnily enough, I also saw Giuseppe Garibaldi in person when it was near Venice, Italy, some years ago while I was stationed there. I had this mental image that they are smaller than supercarriers, and I wasn't really ready for how absolutely loving huge it was. It felt like some lumbering behemoth on water. So I guess they weren't that small after all. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Feb 14, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2021 16:44
|
|
|
Murgos posted:It makes a massive amount of sense for the US to support allies in fielding light carriers with a squadron of F35Bs on them. The USMC has had their Harriers on other countries carriers before, even for long deployments like the Marines on Principe de Asturias from Spanish Navy. They've filled in when the host country has a boat but no planes, like HMS QE right now, but I reckon there's some benefit to being able to cross-land from one country to another, and being able to operate intermixed, like how Rafales land on US boats and Hornets land on de Gaull and the benefit is two-way. Where it gets interesting to me is doing real life missions from a spanish carrier with USMC harriers. Who makes the rules? Who calls shots? That must be an insane patchwork of bureaucracy and paperwork and sluggish decision making.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 15, 2021 18:57
|
|
|
Godholio posted:That's all hashed out ahead of time. The US won't be launching any jets from a foreign ship if that government doesn't approve of the conflict. There are similar negotiations for any combined operation, whether it's US assets staging on a foreign airfield, getting overflight permission, using multi-national crews like a US or NATO AWACS, etc. I can't remember all the details anymore, but we had to take into consideration Canadian crewmembers during Afghanistan sorties; there were different rules for them on OEF vs ISAF support. Ah. Makes sense! Thanks. I get that almost all US Allies usually go along with a lot of things, but it doesn’t seem realistic to think that the Spanish government, or the ship’s command, just relinquishes all decision making. While European allies seem very much in bed with yanks, they still like to also assert their own power. And a carrier is a huge national symbol, too.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 15, 2021 21:47
|
|
|
To the last moment I was ready to be disappointed, but Finland chose the right one. I was just worried that the political pandering to save millions to appear thrifty was gonna prove too alluring. But now rumors appear that PM Marin’s government had made the choice long ago. F-35 is official, with 64 of them to replace the F-18s. https://www.defenseone.com/business/2021/12/finland-chooses-f-35-over-super-hornet-3-european-fighters/187452/
|
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2021 16:01
|
|
|
Dandywalken posted:Gripen fans absolutely decimated!!!!! Much like the Gripen is by the F-35.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2021 16:50
|
|
|
Kaal posted:Frankly any fighter jet combat comparisons really need to be taken with a grain of salt, because there's a very good likelihood that none of these jets will ever see air-to-air combat. This is precisely the case why Gripen is a great choice for South American governments and such. It offers interception of airliners, and it can bully your neighbors. And on a discount! But this is also a gamble that Finland, of all places in Europe, is not willing to take.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2021 16:58
|
|
|
TCD posted:An F-35 in Finish service? Probably right?? The Finnish military exists for one real reason. There's one country, right next to them that basically justifies the whole budget. There's no politically tenable purchase in Finland that assumes no fighting with Russia. And looking at Finland's location and history, there's no way anyone can seriously argue that Russia will never use military force against Finland. So while the odds of F-35s in Finnish service seeing combat (We are not counting Operation Bomb Dirt) are very low, the odds are always there in a much more concrete fashion than Switzerland or Brazil, for example.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2021 17:17
|
|
|
Can't believe I am stanning the F-35, but in this case the F-35 isn't just a hypothetical improvement. It's a measurable one, and an observable one (get it?). It's already a massive part of the Finnish defence budget, with 10 percent of annual budget going to the fighter program every year for the next, what? Forty years? So in that light, this is not the time to shave off dollars and sacrifice capability. Full send, or don't. You are going to only have 64 fighters, and they exist for the day the big whistle blows. So they better count. That's strategically a lot different than Seawolves versus Virginias, or if replacing the M4 is worth the cost. They are not foundational pillars of US power, but in Finland's case it's Nokia rubber boots and the fighter planes that the defence rests on.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2021 17:53
|
|
|
mlmp08 posted:F-35s have much better odds of successfully disintegrating Russian DTG and Corps indirect fires platforms and logistics than a Gripen. The Finn in the woods with a recoilless rifle would appreciate this. Correct. See the two-pronged national defence doctrine here:  In a doctrine that so heavily rests on just two foundational items, they have to make sure that those two key pieces are best in-class. I have personally evaluated the Nokia rubberboots in poo poo gently caress elements, and they are the best. As did my father and grandfather. Based on the status of the boots, it was probably the same pair. With the culmination of the HX program, the other side is too. Here are both the force application method of "Perkele" and Nokia rubberboots demonstrating fire and maneuver on Highway 7 after LO F-35s destroyed the russian fires platforms.  In this loving ancient load bearing vest we can observe a traditional folk health potion known as "Fanta metsämarja" or "forest berries". Here is some more fire and maneuver 
Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Dec 10, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2021 18:13
|
|
|
Uncle Enzo posted:
Yeah as much as this feature was ragged on, look at countries with skijump carriers gobbling them up now. Even a small amount of them gives some serious punch to something like the Italian carriers.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2021 18:22
|
|
|
With Finland's geographical situation, I don't think its hyperbole at all to say that the F-35 (much like the rubber boots) could be the deciding factor here in the nation's survival. The Finnish national defence is all about a decisive 72h battle that is supposed to blunt the advance. And be enough of a deterrent in the "we will make you pay in the next few days"-doctrine. It'll be all about first strikes against Russian nerve centers, and surviving the initial fires onslaughts and other attempts to cripple the Finnish Army. Finland has zero scenarios where air power is used to bully small neighbors, and all the scenarios involve doing the most in a short window of time against Russia. Any kind of attrition warfare will eventually drain the Finnish Army and Air Force anyway. And more importantly, the 64 F-35s might be just enough to let Putin think it isn't worth it in an air fight either, as the Russian ability to go against 64 jets like F-35 is seriously in question. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Dec 11, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Dec 11, 2021 20:13
|
|
|
Finland lost the war against Russia in WW2. But it retained its democracy, and was the only axis country to be truly democratic, in and out of the war. That's the goal today, too. There are no delusions of winning a war against Russia in the Defense Forces. There's only making it so costly that Finland retains its territory and democracy. Finland did purchase "good enough" fighter planes in the leadup to the war, and had significant anti-fighter plane figures in the Parliament. For that, they paid dearly early on. With the use of Finnish flown 109 G-2s, G-6s, and some other scattered G-models, and German flown 190s, Finland managed to get air superiority, which significantly contributed to the ability on the ground to hold on. Use this comparison as you will. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Dec 12, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Dec 12, 2021 18:15
|
|
|
European and Pacific navies are thankful, though.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 12, 2021 22:47
|
|
|
Murgos posted:If Finland’s strategic calculus was to be as thorny a planning problem as possible for Russia’s strategists then they should scrap almost everything they have for a nuclear program and a set of road mobile launchers. It's actually the literal National Defence Plan, that is supposed to be publicly discussed. Some quick reading in English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Defence_Forces#Total_defence “Finland maintains credible national defence and prepares to repel any use of military force against it as well as counter the threat thereof. The primary objective is to maintain such defence capabilities and readiness which make it unprofitable for an aggressor to use military force against Finland”. Big part of Total Defence is absolute mobilization of the whole country. All major companies, factories, and workshops have national defence plans: sealed documents containing orders on what to do if the big whistle blows. Be it walkie talkies to syringes. https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/0/3/78104.pdf Also a fun video about it, with english subtitles. Even in this video, it's made on a "little green men" scenario. battlefield 2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTmWCbcYwb8 Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Dec 13, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Dec 13, 2021 03:31
|
|
|
TheFluff posted:I'd think you can actually do this with non-LO aircraft as well, you just have to accept more losses. In America this is unacceptable but if you targets are a limited number of strategic assets and the time you're expecting to be using your runways for is limited, it might not actually matter all that much in the end. Of course, "tell that to the pilots", you'd say, but the thing is that that's exactly what they did - and probably still do. Do you have a link to the whole memo?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 14, 2021 02:23
|
|
|
TheFluff posted:I don't believe it's digitized unfortunately; I've quoted it as cited in Tommy Pettersson's extremely excellent book Med invasionen i sikte: Flygvapnets krigsplanläggning och luftoperativa doktrin 1958-1966, which is available online (for free!) as a PDF. It's basically his masters thesis in history but with some added illustrations. The quote appears on physical page numbers 91-92, which is page 93-94 in the PDF. The footnotes with the reference to the original source in the national military archives are on page 97 in the PDF; I may one day go look up the full document myself. This is still extremely  reading material, even if it hits the limits of my swedish often.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 14, 2021 03:48
|
|
|
Those CF-18s will fly until the wings fall off, right? And then they pull a finland and glue two crashed ones together to fly it again?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 16, 2021 17:21
|
|
|
Marshal Prolapse posted:Also the Royal Navy actually had a submarine based kill. I’m kind of wondering if that’s the first time a Cold War torpedo was actually used in combat by the UK/UD, because I can’t really think of any US submarine based torpedo attacks after World War II. Won't this sinking count? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinking
|
|
#
¿
Dec 17, 2021 00:58
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:Is China destroying their neighbors like the US is central and south america? Yes? They aren’t called Friendship Fishing Vessels. Arguably the United Fruit Company stuff isn’t really contemporary for US, while China is doing it as a speedrun here.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 20, 2021 07:34
|
|
|
LostCosmonaut posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/09/norway-military-underwear-coronavirus-supply-chain/ In Finnish Army during conscription you do not wash your own clothing. On laundry days you come in and do one-to-one swap of dirty to clean. You drop into the bag one pair of socks, you get a pair of socks. You drop two boxers, and you get two pairs of boxers. Not only is it more efficient than conscripts washing their own laundry, but also apparently preserved the gear because all were washed in correct settings and your IR coated jackets weren’t for example washed at 200 F with bleach.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 11, 2022 04:08
|
|
|
knox_harrington posted:The UK has had soldiers in Ukraine for years (ORBITAL). There’s also American and other NATO countries in these tripwire assignments. I’ve no clue if they get pulled out soon but Lviv has a good chunk of Canadians and Americans.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 21, 2022 15:00
|
|
|
Your write up is excellent and appreciated. However in Vietnam photography, especially early war, you have to be mindful that ARVN units often looked exactly like American ones, and had M1 carbines and garands, while Americans without few exceptions did not. If you don’t have size comparison of the height of the trooper, or a good way to gauge the overall ethnicity, nor a good image description, separating ARVN from US Army and USMC isn’t all that easy in Vietnam photos.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2022 05:44
|
|
|
Godholio posted:That's part of their schtick. Went off the Carl Vinson in the South China Sea. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/navy-fighter-jet-crashes-carrier-landing-south-china/story?id=82447562
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2022 03:05
|
|
|
Don't hate me for posting again, we always scoop up a few new nerds who haven't heard of this before. I made a post here earlier about the Georgian War 2008 Let's Play thread, and now that that war has ended, we're aiming for even bigger and loftier goals. This time it's a 1990 June alternate history Sixth Arab-Israeli War, and it's including realistic map of Syrian SAM sites, orders of battle, and israeli positions, with a little bit of a narrative flavor to it. There's a metric gently caress ton of players in all kinds of roles, and we got room for more if you just have interest. It'd be hard to sum up here all that it is, so I'm just linking some random information tidbits.Reporters? Planners? INtel? You loving name it, just say. Here's the main map of the game with a huuuuge amount of the in-game stuff visible: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1FqSMMT7sxxOPvIzfgQsvfsEDVd7jikQt&usp=sharing DCS is a mainly extremely realistic flight simulation, but also has ground units and naval units. "Bottom line up front: Some 40 goons will fly a plot-heavy campaign in the Levant in 1990 as an mainly Israeli Air Force unit, with some American help from a carrier. Weekly main mission scheduled at 2000hrs Universal Time on Saturdays. The time means that there’s no AMRAAMs, no Targeting Pods, no helmet mounted sights, and many other weapons are limited. Israel also lacks the ability to employ HARMs, relying on the older Shrike which will require significantly more piloting ability to deliver to the recipient." Thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3993395    mashed_penguin posted:
Yooper posted:
Vahakyla posted:To give some idea of the level of accuracy and the attention to detail we are doing here I show what is taking us many sleepless nights, and hours and hours of every day. Lord Stimperor posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTX1lI8COuQ
|
|
#
¿
Feb 17, 2022 00:49
|
|
|
mlmp08 posted:Spoken like walking obsolescence guy who sacrificed cartilage for a badge. (They're all legs when they just dismount a C-17 and get on the bus in Germany) Whatever leg.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 25, 2022 02:12
|
|
|
Zhanism posted:Well yeah thats the idea. But thats not suppose to be the long term goal of any airborne related Op. You are suppose to have a plan after, take initial objective with surprise and then.....? Based on my own first hand experiences as a paratrooper training against various European nations playing OPFOR, it seemed the plan was often "get shot". Every single airport seizure jump I ever did ended in a massacre. First the IRL massacre of tens of injuries, then the simulated butchering by the OPFOR within hours. There's no lesson here. Paratroop poo poo loving owns.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 25, 2022 02:27
|
|
|
Shooting Blanks posted:Not to mention both of them, particularly Finland, have a military posture explicitly designed to repel a Russian invasion. Well it’s not like Ukraine was prepping for a Polish invasion.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 25, 2022 17:59
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 14:06 |
|
|
Kazinsal posted:I'm mostly concerned about what happens when he runs out of non-NATO and non-nuclear states to threaten. War, op
|
|
#
¿
Feb 25, 2022 22:43
|
|