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kilus aof
Mar 24, 2001


Cease to Hope posted:

I agree with all of this. On the subject of nostalgia, though, it's so weird to see people give the old EU a pass while rightly hitting the Disney movies for this. It's not something BA in particular has done to my knowledge, but it is a pattern I've seen.

One is a bunch of books that were written to be secondary to the movies and the others are a bunch of movies that are suppose to be new primary sources for Star Wars that also cost hundreds of million to make.

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Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

More like "Bulges Adventure"


SlothfulCobra posted:

I feel like I kinda have the inverse complaint about Rogue One. If anything, I felt like it didn't care enough about the main characters on their own terms because it was too focused on their importance to the original series, and it didn't really want to make waves by fleshing out too much about the rest of the galaxy or shifting focus away from the rest of the franchise. Everyone involved is conveniently taken care of so they won't be a loose end.

Rogue One is a weird mishmash of space opera and an attempt to be gritty. You've got a lot of OPERA moments, like Jyn being the only person in the galaxy to identify Galen's flaw and the Hail Mary Battle of Scarif, but it's anchored around characters who are portrayed as terrorists and are immediately written off so that the Real Heroes get a chance to take over. Really, the portrayal of the Rebel Alliance as guerrilla fighters treating innocent bystanders as acceptable losses in a movie series for children just seems awful. I always saw Star Wars at its core being a story about good triumphing over evil. It's not the first time that theme got muddied (Lucas has Anakin killing kids after being pitched as redeemable, Filoni has a Clone Wars episode about how the Jedi having pirates sell weapons to guerrilla fighters is Cool and Good, and Disney portrays Kylo Ren as maybe being a good leader despite overseeing children being kidnapped and brainwashed into being soldiers).

That's just my viewpoint on it. That weird shift from Goofy Good vs. Evil to clumsily handled Shades of Gray is one of the reasons I've always been kind of mixed about the Clone Wars series (it does get better when it starts focusing more on the Clones and Anakin's and Ahsoka's relationship), and what I saw the Sequel Trilogy devolving into. This also reminds me of how Chewie is now considered apolitical because being turned into a slave is no big deal. It's just about fighting with his friends (despite, y'know, fighting alongside the Republic during the Clone Wars).

L-loving-mao

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

Those "Tales of" books, where every character in the cantina and every bounty hunter is a main character, those are basically a novelization of the action figure line at the time. It's kinda amazing how obvious the merchandising is in retrospect.

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



That's an interesting theory, but thanks to the extensive pedantry of Star Wars fans, there's a catalogued timeline of every time a character's had an action figure, and it looks like it took years for a lot of those characters to get toys. Apparently some of them (like the Tonnika Sisters) will never get toys at all, due to actors suing Lucasfilm for using their likeness without permission.

Mos Eisley Cantina
Jabba's Palace
Bounty Hunters

Though both those books and the toys were absolutely just getting merch ready for the special editions, and getting the machine revved up for the prequels.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





I knew there had to be a list of action figures like that, I just couldn't find it.

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



It's insane how specific some of the toys got - to the point where they were doing versions of characters from specific scenes, or even specific moments within a scene.

Sure you've got a General Grievous, but do you have General Grievous at the moment of his death with fire coming out of his eyes?


Yes you have a Palpatine, but do you have Palpatine from his one scene in Empire (the 2004 DVD version) where his hood is folded differently?



Forget Malibu Stacy with a new hat - this is Malibu Stacy at timecode 1:25:38 - 1:26:20 in the Philippine airline dub of Malibu Stacy Buys a New Hat.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

Robot Style posted:

That's an interesting theory, but thanks to the extensive pedantry of Star Wars fans, there's a catalogued timeline of every time a character's had an action figure, and it looks like it took years for a lot of those characters to get toys. Apparently some of them (like the Tonnika Sisters) will never get toys at all, due to actors suing Lucasfilm for using their likeness without permission.

Mos Eisley Cantina
Jabba's Palace
Bounty Hunters

Though both those books and the toys were absolutely just getting merch ready for the special editions, and getting the machine revved up for the prequels.

idk this seems mainly like a confirmation, not a disagreement. a bunch of these are from a year or two after those books were released.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


I googled Coolest Star Wars Toy and according to google it's this

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Cease to Hope posted:

idk this seems mainly like a confirmation, not a disagreement. a bunch of these are from a year or two after those books were released.

That isn't how combined book and merch works. It's not a confirmation.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016



reignofevil posted:

I googled Coolest Star Wars Toy and according to google it's this



"Perhaps he's wondering why someone would blast a man before throwing him out of an AT-AT"

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Here, at my most drunken hour, I sometimes mix up cease to hope and cain for tea. I can't possibly keep straight that two posters whose name starts with C exists.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

More like "Bulges Adventure"


Very disappointed that Lucasfilm/Disney never made a toy of Q9-X2, the buttplugmech droid



https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Q9-X2

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.





Bread Liar

CainFortea posted:

I knew there had to be a list of action figures like that, I just couldn't find it.

There is literally a list of everything to do with Star Wars. It's almost frightening.

I mentioned once that I had a stormtrooper style gun which I think came with the IG-88 figure. It looked normal, but if you held it up to the light was actually a translucent green.

Someone immediately pointed me to a website which listed every single version of the gun, every production run and known defect. It narrowed down the gun's production version to within a few months and detailed every toy it was ever found in.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





reignofevil posted:

Here, at my most drunken hour, I sometimes mix up cease to hope and cain for tea. I can't possibly keep straight that two posters whose name starts with C exists.

I thought we were friends. How rude!

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



Cease to Hope posted:

idk this seems mainly like a confirmation, not a disagreement. a bunch of these are from a year or two after those books were released.

Once the book was released it definitely influenced the toys - for example Muftak's only toy was released in a 2-pack with Kabe, due to the relationship established for them in the Tales book. I doubt the two were developed in tandem, though.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The ridiculous info shouldn't be that surprising; it's an intersection of a ridiculous amount of nerd interests. A lot of people are crazy about toys, completionism, movie accuracy merchandise, from even more angles than just being Star Wars fans.

My favourite might be the Transformers Wiki takes on Star Wars Transformers, which last I checked are written with the idea the authors only know of the entire Star Wars franchise exclusively from material made for the crossover promotion.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012



Star Wars' writing and visual design are designed to give the impression that there are more stories happening tantalizingly just off-camera. The sheer breadth of the merchandising, including especially the novels, capitalizes on that by purporting to slake that thirst. The idea that if you go looking you will find more is what made George Lucas' fortune. It appeals especially strongly to a certain type of personality.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



While other action figure brands tried to expand their toylines by creating extra weird outfits and accessories for their characters that never showed up in the actual media, Star Wars's toylines decided to mine deep into background characters, which it turns out makes for some weird choices. Like this guy, who's just a solid hunk of plastic with arms and a funny hat.



I absolutely didn't know who he was supposed to be as a kid, thought he was some senator, but it turns out that he's one of the Emperor's entourage in the deep, deep background of Return of the Jedi.



And then it wasn't the first or the last time these guys with funny hats got used for action figures, but sadly the guy with the funniest hat is missing.



But maybe, just maybe, funny hats will return to the franchise.



Ghost Leviathan posted:

The ridiculous info shouldn't be that surprising; it's an intersection of a ridiculous amount of nerd interests. A lot of people are crazy about toys, completionism, movie accuracy merchandise, from even more angles than just being Star Wars fans.

My favourite might be the Transformers Wiki takes on Star Wars Transformers, which last I checked are written with the idea the authors only know of the entire Star Wars franchise exclusively from material made for the crossover promotion.

Collectors are scary in how much time they'll spend on databases to make sure they can keep track of every toy they could possibly collect, but all this obsessive stuff comes in handy for when you've got some half-remembered thing that you want to check.

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



SlothfulCobra posted:

But maybe, just maybe, funny hats will return to the franchise.



This dude's based on unused concept art for Kylo Ren:


McCloud
Oct 27, 2005






Bringing back this classic: Alex Jones explains the Prequels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fzjOlh5g_o

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





https://twitter.com/sw_holocron/status/1429803989105786885?s=19

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



It's weird how they never used Dexter Jettster in Clone Wars. You'd think Obi-Wan's old buddy who's been to the four corners of the galaxy would be useful for stories. I guess they just didn't focus on Obi-Wan much and he never showed Anakin his hangouts?

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Probably more that Clone Wars never bothered much with exposition characters when they have that awesome bombastic narrator to do that and get right into the action.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

More like "Bulges Adventure"


SlothfulCobra posted:

It's weird how they never used Dexter Jettster in Clone Wars. You'd think Obi-Wan's old buddy who's been to the four corners of the galaxy would be useful for stories. I guess they just didn't focus on Obi-Wan much and he never showed Anakin his hangouts?

Dexter would have been cool to learn about, but I guess they were more interested in showing Obi-Wan's Mandalorian love interest.

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





Dexter was presumably reserved for Star Wars: Detours.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol


this is missing the scene where obi-wan cuts him in half

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I can't find that one scene where Obi-wan and his Mandalorian ex have the episode's bad guy at gun/lightsaber point, but he's like 'Ah, but only a psychopathic killing machine would finish me off!' and cue Anakin's lightsaber through his back, and a snippet of the Imperial March.

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



Here you go - Anakin kills Greg Proops.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.
Games Idiot Court Jester


Ghost Leviathan posted:

I can't find that one scene where Obi-wan and his Mandalorian ex have the episode's bad guy at gun/lightsaber point, but he's like 'Ah, but only a psychopathic killing machine would finish me off!' and cue Anakin's lightsaber through his back, and a snippet of the Imperial March.

Should've said the line, had the characters look at the camera, then smash cut to the guy in space jail or whatever

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



It's a little weird that the backstory to the top CIS members is that they're rich businessmen, but outside of the massive factory, Geonosians wear loincloths, wield spears, and live in unadorned, naturalistic caverns. Weird mixed messaging.

I guess it doesn't matter that much, since spending more time demonizing the Separatists kinda undermines the whole folly of war aspect.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




SlothfulCobra posted:

It's a little weird that the backstory to the top CIS members is that they're rich businessmen, but outside of the massive factory, Geonosians wear loincloths, wield spears, and live in unadorned, naturalistic caverns. Weird mixed messaging.

I guess it doesn't matter that much, since spending more time demonizing the Separatists kinda undermines the whole folly of war aspect.

I mean, rampant inequality on the fringes of the Republic is kind of a recurring theme. Geonosis is basically the Separatists' third world sweatshop.

SidneyIsTheKiller
Jul 16, 2019

She's delusional,
"where's god", etc.
Completely suicidal.
One day she snaps.
She wants to kill herself
but she realizes that
teen suicide is out this year
and homicide is a much healthier therapeutic expression.


Guy A. Person posted:

"How do you explain people who liked the movies at the time of release?"
"They like it because of nostalgia"

I'm just sort of Kramering into this thread and am not really responding directly to anyone's specific argument, but I just want to point out if it hasn't already: Star Wars is nostalgia. That's how it's always worked. It was noted at the time that what made the original Star Wars so brilliant was how it got people to feel nostalgic for something they'd never seen before.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Ghost Leviathan posted:

I mean, rampant inequality on the fringes of the Republic is kind of a recurring theme. Geonosis is basically the Separatists' third world sweatshop.

yeah the thing is that the separatists are basically composed of the "sith faction" that was built by the sith lords prior to sidious (mostly investment bankers :capitalism:), the people they exploit, and the people that dooku has talked around ideologically or by promising better treatment than the republic has given them. in gathering all of these people together into a faction engineered to lose, palpatine pretty much gathered the wealthiest and the most idealistic people into one place so he could own them and take their stuff

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




SidneyIsTheKiller posted:

I'm just sort of Kramering into this thread and am not really responding directly to anyone's specific argument, but I just want to point out if it hasn't already: Star Wars is nostalgia. That's how it's always worked. It was noted at the time that what made the original Star Wars so brilliant was how it got people to feel nostalgic for something they'd never seen before.

I mean, it was basically stuck together out of imagery and themes from samurai movies, westerns, war dramas and pulp science fiction, absolutely everything that the audience at the time would be nostalgic for. Heck, put that way, it's no wonder it blew up so big- it's basically the 20th century's Greatest Hits for popular culture.

The Clone Wars actually does put a bit of effort into humanising (so to speak) the Separatists and driving home that the Republic isn't a hell of a lot better (gently caress, you got Trade Federation and Banking Clan representatives still in the Senate during the wars. Also, the Separatists actually have a Parliament) with the brutality and attempts at bioweapons and such.

Jazerus posted:

yeah the thing is that the separatists are basically composed of the "sith faction" that was built by the sith lords prior to sidious (mostly investment bankers :capitalism:), the people they exploit, and the people that dooku has talked around ideologically or by promising better treatment than the republic has given them. in gathering all of these people together into a faction engineered to lose, palpatine pretty much gathered the wealthiest and the most idealistic people into one place so he could own them and take their stuff

Is pretty funny that it might be that Palpatine looked at the people the Sith had managed to gain power over throughout the generations, realised they're a bunch of idiots, assholes and losers that everyone hates, and decides the best course of action is to publicly and massively own them and take the credit

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Yea, I didn't feel nostalgic the first time I watched star wars.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


Wild that a confederation of separatists would have any kind of inequality.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



Ghost Leviathan posted:

I mean, rampant inequality on the fringes of the Republic is kind of a recurring theme. Geonosis is basically the Separatists' third world sweatshop.

I dunno, maybe if they wanted to get the sweatshop image, maybe they could've shown the Geonosians doing work instead of the factory being automated. And boss man Poggle doesn't really seem much more decadent than the rest of his people (unless his bug beard is somehow the result of overeating), so maybe clothes just aren't much of a thing for Geonosians.

SidneyIsTheKiller posted:

I'm just sort of Kramering into this thread and am not really responding directly to anyone's specific argument, but I just want to point out if it hasn't already: Star Wars is nostalgia. That's how it's always worked. It was noted at the time that what made the original Star Wars so brilliant was how it got people to feel nostalgic for something they'd never seen before.

While that's sort of hitting on a true thing, I don't think "nostalgia" is the right word for it. It's borrowing a lot from classic media, but it's not manufacturing a familiarity or leaving a trail for the audience to follow to know where it all came from. There are things that try to manufacture that sort of feeling as some kind of celebration of the past; I have no real knowledge or affection for the Western genre, but Rango and Red Dead Redemption try to recreate what past audiences liked about the genre while peppering it full of references to encourage people to go back and discover the genre for themselves or reward people who know what's being referenced. The Princess Bride is a similar case, framing the story itself as being read from a novel like the novels it pulls its material from.

Star Wars didn't do that. It reproduced a lot of classic material, but wildly recontextualized all of it, so it had the advantage of using material that already worked while also adding in its own bizarre ideas and aesthetics. It's a futuristic sci-fi world, but everything is dirty, rusty, and broken-down. Darth Vader is a bad samurai in space cutting down more modern soldiers, and the movie thoroughly references some kind of political shifting instead of being isolated to the characters. Luke's a teenage farmboy just wanting to go to the big city, but he's in a desert, which it's already unusual to do a western from the perspective of a yokel, but it's the Tunisian desert, which is a radically different type of desert to the Californian desert that audiences are used to for westerns. At some point they blunder into some kind of classic fairytale fantasy about rescuing a princess, but one of the party resents the heroism, and the damsel in distress is a badass of her own. The finale of the movie is Dam Busters in space, but with better closeups and special effects from modern cinematography, and all the previous plots weaved in with even a weird touch of spiritualism. The ships may seem familiar now, but at the time, they were so incredibly weird and alien. The overall concept of the war in Star Wars borrows heavily from WW2, but I think the whole scrappy rebellion against the evil empire story inspired decades of similar dynamics in stories like Terminator or Total Recall or Days of Future Past.

And all that recontextualization means that material ends up feeling different. Only a bigtime movie nerd could even keep track of all the borrowed material, and even then, the end product is very different. There's probably a lot more things that do a similar thing of borrowing heavily and recontextualizing, but I'm not a big enough movie fan to really know. I guess Airplane! (1980) directly copies from Zero Hour! (1957), but I don't think it expects the audience to know about the older movie, and instead it's more making fun of more recent movies like the Airport series (1970, 1974, 1977, 1979).

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.


Just wanted to ask if anyone wanted to execute any orders,on this here page?

No?

Well, carry on then.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



execute order 42069

*every clone immediately tunes into joe rogan*

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josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





May the fourth be with you!

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