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Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


Pilchenstein posted:

Got to say I'm absolutely loving the one-two combo of Pilfered Goods being insanely strong in expeditions and Pilfered Goods being available for seemingly every loving deck in expeditions

Iím pretty sure itís in literally every Bilgewater card bucket.

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neaden
Nov 4, 2012


Pilchenstein posted:

Got to say I'm absolutely loving the one-two combo of Pilfered Goods being insanely strong in expeditions and Pilfered Goods being available for seemingly every loving deck in expeditions

I really think they need to change this to draw from the bottom of your opponents deck because right now it just trashes freljords whole put a yeti on top of your deck.

Elvis_Maximus
Oct 7, 2007

Relaxing AND Refreshing


Is there a reason to play a second trial if you hit 7 wins on the first?

I guess I can just draft something weird, but I don't think there's any expanded prizes for winning right? And I feel sort of bad about beating people if I've already got the max reward!

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

Elvis_Maximus posted:

Is there a reason to play a second trial if you hit 7 wins on the first?

I guess I can just draft something weird, but I don't think there's any expanded prizes for winning right? And I feel sort of bad about beating people if I've already got the max reward!
If you're definitely going to play 3 paid expeditions in a week and unlock open play, then no. If you're only using the free token then you can still get the bonus xp from a second trial.

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011


No Wave posted:

I face these decks so much... they seem like they win for free if they get keeper+butcher on 2 into undying on 3.

The high roll of keeper/butcher on turn 2 is second only to dropping a black market merchant and stealing your opponents 3 merchants and 3 pilfers.

Makes up for all those times you never see your undying or keepers and have a hand filled with cards that play off those.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013


Playing Lux/Karma and the experimental Herald of Spring I jammed in there makes the burn matchup so much more winnable.

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011


I'll agree with whoever said that unbreakable spirit should be follower only, it's just a real feel bad moment when a persons win condition is forever on the board, especially if it's most of the Demacia champions to boot.

srulz
Jun 23, 2013


Just tried mono P&Z (2 Teemo + 2 Ezreal) for fun and giggles in Expedition - ended up with easy 7 wins.
Teemo is ridiculously good, and so is that Allegiance which gives free Elusive to any of your stuff.
The games aren't even close - mushroom stuff is killing off your opponents on a totally different axis, and you just can't stop yourself from drawing cards.
The only "soft counter" is lifesteal, and even that is not going to stop 100+ mushrooms left in your deck.

Now I'm trying Teemo + Lee Sin and totally built around Lee Sin instead.
And so far I've gotten 2-0 mainly from Teemo's contribution.
There are literally no other mushroom stuff even, just "spells matter" cards.
Expedition may actually a lot more balanced then I originally thought.

PJOmega
May 5, 2009


doingitwrong posted:

Playing Lux/Karma and the experimental Herald of Spring I jammed in there makes the burn matchup so much more winnable.

I could see that on the play. Does it negatively impact your other matchups and/or do anything against burn on the draw?

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011


Pilfer decks in expedition are fun, especially when the other guys deck is about going deep as fast as possible.

Pretty often the turn they put up Nautilus or Maokai they are down to 2 cards left and each one has a bunch of mushrooms on it.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013


PJOmega posted:

I could see that on the play. Does it negatively impact your other matchups and/or do anything against burn on the draw?

I havenít played enough to decide yet. I literally only put one in the deck (cutting a Remembrance for it from this list: https://lor.mobalytics.gg/en_us/dec...3tbunq82nk26ka0)

My idea being that in Burn matchups you never get a chance to get to the late game win more situations where Remembrance is good. Winning the burn matchup is extremely draw dependent and most of the time you lose utterly. So itís a situation where you Mulligan aggressively for a small number of cards that let you block, survive and heal. It really only takes one attack with a supported 4/4 to swing and they have a lot of cards that read ďcanít blockĒ so you often get to swing, value trade, and swing over 3 rounds.

Iím not persuaded by the Eye of the Dragons either. They donít get you healing in the crucial early game because your spells are so expensive. Getting the 2/1s to appear is awkward and they arenít that hard to remove for the burn player. So Iím thinking of replacing another one of them with a Herald.

All of this is ladder thinking, where Iím trying to skew matchup % in my favor.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013


I would like to reiterate my earlier complaints about Unyielding Spirit but double them for expeditions. That card should not be in expedition buckets.

kingcobweb
Apr 16, 2005

Tits and cooters, Mr Bond.


doingitwrong posted:

I havenít played enough to decide yet. I literally only put one in the deck (cutting a Remembrance for it from this list: https://lor.mobalytics.gg/en_us/dec...3tbunq82nk26ka0)

My idea being that in Burn matchups you never get a chance to get to the late game win more situations where Remembrance is good. Winning the burn matchup is extremely draw dependent and most of the time you lose utterly. So itís a situation where you Mulligan aggressively for a small number of cards that let you block, survive and heal. It really only takes one attack with a supported 4/4 to swing and they have a lot of cards that read ďcanít blockĒ so you often get to swing, value trade, and swing over 3 rounds.

Iím not persuaded by the Eye of the Dragons either. They donít get you healing in the crucial early game because your spells are so expensive. Getting the 2/1s to appear is awkward and they arenít that hard to remove for the burn player. So Iím thinking of replacing another one of them with a Herald.

All of this is ladder thinking, where Iím trying to skew matchup % in my favor.

I havenít played Karma/Lux, but Iíve played a lot of other Ionia decks against burn, and Eye of the Dragon is your best unit by far against burn.

If you want to tune the deck to beat burn, just play more one-drops so you can trade with theirs.

Firebert
Aug 16, 2004




demacia is p good but P&Z very stupid and very fun

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

I just played pilfered goods immediately after my opponent buffed the top unit in his deck with Avarosan Outriders and I'm pretty sure that should be a war crime

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013


kingcobweb posted:

I havenít played Karma/Lux, but Iíve played a lot of other Ionia decks against burn, and Eye of the Dragon is your best unit by far against burn.

If you want to tune the deck to beat burn, just play more one-drops so you can trade with theirs.

Lux/Karma runs pretty much all 4+ mana spells. So during the crucial early turns, making eye of the Dragon go is really hard. If you can make it out of the early turns with a good life total, Burn folds to your late game lifesteal and board control. But you rarely make it there.

Itís just a bad matchup and maybe instead of trying to improve on it, I should let those games go and focus on the other much more winnable games.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188



doingitwrong posted:

I havenít played enough to decide yet. I literally only put one in the deck (cutting a Remembrance for it from this list: https://lor.mobalytics.gg/en_us/dec...3tbunq82nk26ka0)

My idea being that in Burn matchups you never get a chance to get to the late game win more situations where Remembrance is good. Winning the burn matchup is extremely draw dependent and most of the time you lose utterly. So itís a situation where you Mulligan aggressively for a small number of cards that let you block, survive and heal. It really only takes one attack with a supported 4/4 to swing and they have a lot of cards that read ďcanít blockĒ so you often get to swing, value trade, and swing over 3 rounds.

Iím not persuaded by the Eye of the Dragons either. They donít get you healing in the crucial early game because your spells are so expensive. Getting the 2/1s to appear is awkward and they arenít that hard to remove for the burn player. So Iím thinking of replacing another one of them with a Herald.

All of this is ladder thinking, where Iím trying to skew matchup % in my favor.

Besides being exactly 6 mana for Lux to generate another laser or a way to create massive amounts of board presence with Karma in play, Remembrance is also good because it's a 5-drop you can slam ahead of curve on turn 3, and almost every outcome is great. Control decks don't really have a lot of things to do on the first few turns, and don't really want to dilute their deck with cards that are only good on turn 1 or 2, so a creature you can cast with spell mana lets you recover some lost tempo by putting a big beater in play. It's the same reason why SI control decks like to run Brood Awakening, because it's a way to offset the cost of passing the early turns and doing nothing.

Servaetes
Sep 10, 2003

True enemy or false friend?


You really should not be able to draft 6-8 Pilfer Goods in an expedition. Getting milled to death on game 2 because they take my entire deck is kind of horsecrap. Dude plays like poo poo with his own stuff and just uses every single tool I have because the deck isn't big enough to even have junk cards to take is kinda crap

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

Servaetes posted:

You really should not be able to draft 6-8 Pilfer Goods in an expedition. Getting milled to death on game 2 because they take my entire deck is kind of horsecrap. Dude plays like poo poo with his own stuff and just uses every single tool I have because the deck isn't big enough to even have junk cards to take is kinda crap
Expeditions are basically a different game at this point. Specifically Hearthstone

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004



Yeah expedition is kind of goofy with stealing/mill because of how your deck changes throughout. A bunch of Pilfered Goods is way more annoying game 1 than it is after 3 or 4 wins when you've added some cards. I like the "add new cards" aspect of the format that I'm willing to excuse it, but Goods really makes it noticeable

Servaetes
Sep 10, 2003

True enemy or false friend?


Pilchenstein posted:

Expeditions are basically a different game at this point. Specifically Hearthstone

I didn't really play a lot of expedition in Hearthstone or stuck around with it long enough to be able to tell. What caused it to get such a reputation as being really cheesy or goofy?

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Servaetes posted:

I didn't really play a lot of expedition in Hearthstone or stuck around with it long enough to be able to tell. What caused it to get such a reputation as being really cheesy or goofy?

Well, for a while the best card in the game was a 10 drop that cast X random spells on a random targets where X is the number of spells you've played all game. Basically you drop it and dumb things happen, except it was slightly more likely to kill the enemy than it was to kill you.

Clarste fucked around with this message at 06:49 on May 24, 2020

Munkaboo
Aug 4, 2002

If you know the words, you can join in too
He's bigger! faster! stronger too!
He's the newest member of the Jags O-Line crew!


drat so ranked has zero rewards? How lame is that.

Boba Pearl
Dec 27, 2019

Yellow Pearl, Blue Pearl, Pink Pearl

Boba Pearl.




Munkaboo posted:

drat so ranked has zero rewards? How lame is that.

That's actually super rad, I much prefer there being no reward besides your own improvement and enjoyment in the game in ranked mode.

GarudaPrime
May 19, 2006

THE PANTS ARE FANCY!

doingitwrong posted:


Iím not persuaded by the Eye of the Dragons either. They donít get you healing in the crucial early game because your spells are so expensive. Getting the 2/1s to appear is awkward and they arenít that hard to remove for the burn player. So Iím thinking of replacing another one of them with a Herald.

All of this is ladder thinking, where Iím trying to skew matchup % in my favor.

Feel the same way about Eye, I've even started mulling them against burn if I dont have the 3 drop bear in opener. The matchup is only winnable when you get the 3 drop 4/4 into ranger in my experience and can pressure them. Ive been itching to cut eye all together, but in diamond the amount of burn has really gone down and I'm not sure it helps the overall winrate to cut it.

Also I would cut Deny before remembrance, and then Eye before remembrance.

GarudaPrime fucked around with this message at 13:35 on May 24, 2020

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Munkaboo posted:

drat so ranked has zero rewards? How lame is that.
I'm not sure yet. The reward for the first season was an icon for whatever rank you reached and the reward for the second season hasn't been announced, it may well be more substantial (or not).

Thoom
Jan 12, 2004

LUIGI SMASH!

Do "Open Play" expeditions matchmake in the same pool as paid expeditions? And if so, is there any mechanism in place to prevent open play players from rerolling their draft until they get a nuts deck?

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

Thoom posted:

Do "Open Play" expeditions matchmake in the same pool as paid expeditions? And if so, is there any mechanism in place to prevent open play players from rerolling their draft until they get a nuts deck?
I think the entire point of open play is to make sure there's enough people to play your paid expeditions against all week, so I'd assume they use the same matchmaking. You can only start one expedition every twenty minutes though.

Thoom
Jan 12, 2004

LUIGI SMASH!

Got it. That seems like a reasonable compromise. I guess if it ever became a real problem, they could bump the cooldown to an hour.

Locke Dunnegan
Apr 25, 2005

Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle


Yeah there's a cooldown between letting you draft again, though its fairly short. I think maybe fifteen minutes? I've definitely gone 0-2 enough times to hit it with 5-10 minutes left.

Edit: I have no idea how I missed that

Locke Dunnegan fucked around with this message at 02:19 on May 25, 2020

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

Locke Dunnegan posted:

Yeah there's a cooldown between letting you draft again, though its fairly short. I think maybe fifteen minutes? I've definitely gone 0-2 enough times to hit it with 5-10 minutes left.

Pilchenstein posted:

You can only start one expedition every twenty minutes though.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010



Expedition report:

I just got pilfered goods, into my pilfered goods, into my other pilfered goods.


Oh no

The Lord of Hats
Aug 22, 2010



See, I never run into the infinite pilfered goods decks.

I get to play against the Nautilus and Maokai Power Hour instead. A lot of decks canít outspeed them reaching Deep, and I donít think thereís anything that can go toe to toe with them while theyíre there. Even when I win itís a protracted slog that goes to decking (once via a stolen Double Trouble giving me a Yeti Yearling I was able to Grasp, the other being Maokai played when they had two cards left actually lucking out and snagging a card. Deep needs to be deeper in expeditions, just by a little bit.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

The Lord of Hats posted:

See, I never run into the infinite pilfered goods decks.
I have no idea how. I'm willing to bet they don't do anything about it in the patch either

Megasabin
Sep 9, 2003

I get half!!


I just don't like the idea of stealing from an opponents deck. It is too luck based. This expansion in general increased the randomness in the game, which I don't enjoy.

srulz
Jun 23, 2013


I don't really get the bad rep Expedition gets in this thread. I've actually just done 4 consecutive 7-wins streak in Expeditions with totally random champs I'm trying the first time:

1. Teemo + Ezreal

2. Teemo + Lee Sin

3. Fizz + Naut + Swain in which I'm not offered any Deep stuff at all, so traded out Naut for Gangplank later.

4. Maokai + Zed

Basically build your curve properly, get some game-ending bombs, don't skimp on removals & tricks, and you're good.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

srulz posted:

I don't really get the bad rep Expedition gets in this thread.
Expedition puts people on tilt more than constructed because there's way more luck involved and it feels super lovely when you've struggled to put together a barely working deck from what you've been offered and then you get facerolled by decks that would probably work well enough in ranked. Also poo poo like sea monsters going deep by turn 4 or Ashe frostbite drawing 10 cards from your deck is just loving obnoxious no matter how good your draft was

Edit:

srulz posted:

Basically build your curve properly, get some game-ending bombs, don't skimp on removals & tricks, and you're good.
This is good advice but people are never going to stop getting screwed by trying to draft decks around a cool champion theme, in this, the game entirely about how cool champions are

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Allegedly, this is the patch:



It is huge. Everything except deep got a big hit.

Firebert
Aug 16, 2004


lol rip ranger/badgerbear, that's a brutal nerf. same to the burn/aggro decks.

I was hoping they would buff tavernkeeper as well, but make the health restore +5 rather than a tiny stat buff, still looks unplayable

Slotbot buff seems powerful, I've already had him go off pretty hard in expedition

e: yeah it's all real https://twitter.com/PlayRuneterra/s...964445559816192

Firebert fucked around with this message at 17:35 on May 25, 2020

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boredsatellite
Dec 7, 2013



Hmm honestly not sure if Karma thing is a nerf honestly, you tend to drop her late anyway and making her have 4hp makes it tricker to kill her

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