Legends of Runeterra

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Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

Cynic Jester posted:

I've found a correlation between going 7-0 and Teemo. Any deck with 2 or more Teemos has gone 7-0, while I've yet to go 7-0 with a deck that does not have any. Granted, my sample size is small but I don't care, because Draven's voice line when you play a Teemo is "What the gently caress is that?"

teemo in expeditions owns

# ¿ Jan 28, 2020 19:48

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 21:27

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

Boxman posted:

Just for my own curiosity, how ones overwhelm interact with barrier? Does the barrier absorb it all or is it like Magic�s trample/indestructible interaction?

ive only done it once but it was when someone tried to block the lethal i had thru overwhelm with barrier and it didnt work, seemed to calculate it exactly the same with the barrier just stopping specifically the damage taken by the unit

# ¿ Jan 29, 2020 19:43

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

zeds good to throw into a hecarim shark deck to force them to do something to deal with him while you build up for your big burst round

# ¿ Jan 30, 2020 16:34

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

No Wave posted:

I dont think any 2 drop outpaces greenglade duo outside of the cant blockers. i think Noxus is the only faction that has been capable of outpacing elusives. This isnt what balance looks like (despite being playable), if it wasnt an open beta maybe I wouldnt expect changes.

if someone wants to play greenglade into cursed keeper + butcher theyre more than welcome to eat the 7 damage face

# ¿ Jan 30, 2020 20:01

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

what about the other one thats just a darius spider beatdown deck?

like elusives just dont deal with high aggro, theyre not that bad really.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2020 22:25

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

either that deck shows that control just beats elusives, or elusives are so easily countered that you can quickly put together a deck that will carry you into masters crushing them. i think in either case it means elusives probably arent as big of an issue as some people are saying.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2020 22:35

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

mistaya posted:

The thing I noticed while playing elusives myself was that they do take a few rounds to get going since you need to cycle the recall ninja/mentors to get your hand buffs online and it's very, very punishable if you have cards that an elusive deck does not want to have to block before they get enough mana to come online. It's a fast deck but it's NOT a round four kill deck the way Noxus can be. SI's Cursed Keepers, Sharks, Butchers, and Unliving dudes can also gently caress an elusive deck up BADLY if you get any of them online in the first 3 rounds.

its fun playing shark decks with a couple of darkwater scourges into elusives. and deathmarking shadow fiends.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2020 22:42

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

cant wait for the ekko card because hes best boy and because it will inevitably infuriating to play against

# ¿ Jan 31, 2020 02:46

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

everyone talking about shurima as a new faction, and about cards that have an effect on the other players hand... dont you see it... its so obvious:

azir will have the shurima shuffle

# ¿ Jan 31, 2020 19:17

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

you dont lose ranks until plat i think, in runeterra

# ¿ Jan 31, 2020 23:28

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

Arzaac posted:

I know people have been saying the spider starter deck is terribad, but I've been having a pretty good time with it after a few modifications. Notably throwing in that 2 drop cursed boy and a few ravenous butchers.

Mostly I just love swarming the field with a bunch of small guys. Doesn't matter how big their dudes are if they can't block my entire board.

I'm also planning on trying out an ethereal based strategy, with the prankster in there as a source of constant nexus damage. I've got a feeling it could be pretty good.

switching to ethereals with hecarim and sharks lets you do the same spammy play but be even more annoying

two games in a row today i went down to basically no hp, managed to stay alive through using a couple of darkwaters and then dropped the harrowing to push out a giant one turn board with the same darkwaters again and end the games at 20 hp. extremely fun deck and works well against a lot of what ive been running into aka spider/noxus and elusives

# ¿ Feb 1, 2020 18:35

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

ephemeral

# ¿ Feb 1, 2020 18:37

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

guts and bolts posted:

Importing decks via code works for me. Is it broken?

I mean that Riot does not care about new players once they have established a game that people will play, with the evidence being League of Legends. When I say "new players," I mean in direct contrast to "old players," and this game isn't old enough to have longtime players yet. Look at League: unlocking new heroes is expensive and does not get easier if you've never played the game before (although I think there's a "getting started" quest that gives you enough for one hero? I think?). Summoner Spells, which are absolutely critical to playing the game, are gated behind account level and you do not get them for just making a new account and wanting them really badly. I'm not saying Riot won't try to attract new players to Legends of Runeterra - the opposite is true - but I do believe based on how they handle their other most popular game on the planet that they're not super concerned with attracting new free-to-play types once they've established their userbase. Chiefly what I meant to say and what I still believe in true is that Riot will not cater to new players at the expense of the existing userbase once that has been created, and rotation wouldn't come up until such time as the game likely had an established user base, right?

like someone just mentioned they changed the lol intro stuff and you get a ton of champs thrown at you. and the summoner spell thing is explicitly for helping new players learn by basically making that not something they have to worry about and is constantly something people making alts complain about, not new players. they might not be very good at it but they definitely do want to try and onboard new players in lol and probably will for this as well.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2020 20:17

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

guts and bolts posted:

I think I misrepresented my point, so that's my bad.

Onboarding players is good, and I haven't made a new League account in several years. I'm glad they throw a bunch of free heroes at you. But that's essentially what the Prologue already does in LoR - you get a bunch of free cards, a few wildcards, and Expedition token, and you're sent on your way. Outside of extremely rare circumstances (just one that I know of, Gangplank?), League never "rotates" heroes, which is where this new player discussion originated from (the idea of rotation). Even when the game's balance is, at a glance, out of whack, they'll just buff a different hero or nerf the problem until the meta shifts again. To that end, I fully expect them to embrace that style of adjusting for their card game rather than just saying "oh but new players won't have full collections/be able to play constructed because there's too much stuff, let's start a rotation." Onboarding a new player and getting one to play is fine and dandy and certainly is something they want to do, but they wouldn't do that at the expense of their existing userbase, which is what a rotation emphatically does.

youll need to clarify again because i have no idea what youre trying to say a rotation in lol would be. by mentioning gangplank do you mean reworking or removing?

also i dont feel like there is anywhere near as big a hurdle for a new player in lol from having a smaller champion pool as there is in a tcg when you have a limited card pool vs full collections. theres a gigantic difference there. especially at the skill level of a new player it doesnt really matter about champion metas, everyone is perfectly viable and that stays true up until actual high elo for the most part as well. meanwhile lacking core cards to build viable decks directly impacts how likely it is you will win each match.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 03:02

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

guts and bolts posted:

They literally removed Gangplank from the game while they reworked him. He was gone for like a week I think. That's the closest analog I can think of for what a "rotation" of heroes would look like, and it never happens in League, more or less. That was my point.

Except your ability to acquire "core cards" is vastly increased in LoR because of how many discretionary rewards you get. This isn't blind buy. You don't need to hope and pray that you got a Deny or a Detain or that the pack you opened contained just the thing you were looking for. Expanding the card pool in no way diminishes a new player's likelihood at acquiring the specific cards they want, because wild cards all turn in for the same things. At the skill level of a hypothetical new player in LoR months from now, they will not need to be on the bleeding edge of constructed deck tech right away (much like your comment about League of Legends and every hero being viable), and if they see a deck they want they can build it relatively easily. The idea of a "core card" that you might be missing is nonsensical because you can easily go and get it, and there has been nothing I've seen that indicates that wild cards will, like, only work on specific expansions or whatever; if you're missing Deny, you can get 3-of trivially. You get 6 wild card capsules in the game, right now, just for hitting level 4 in each region. Each one has 5 wildcards in it. That's 30 cards at your discretion that you can get almost immediately for nothing, which will sometimes just also become Epic instead of Rare or Rare instead of Common or whatever. You can get these rewards for completing quests and matches against the AI if you so choose, so you don't have to worry about diving into constructed play on day 1.

If you absolutely have to have a fully rigged constructed deck in your first week of playing the game, that's what the cash shop is for.

right thats what i thought, but that type of comparison is apples to oranges honestly.

yes its a lot better than literally any tcg and its a good system, but also theres def going to be a marked difference in how well you do compared to someone with a full collection. the early decks are already falling off next to ones that require more investment now. in lol itself this literally isnt a situation with any analog. if you want to take any champion and play them then off you go. in runeterra your chances of winning will be lower until you get some more cards, especially as you will probably need a few weekly rewards to get enough stuff for fully kitted decklists. if they keep adding new stuff and dont either rotate cards or change up the earning speed for new players they will be disadvantaged. itll be no where near as bad as other tcgs have been but it will still exist. your answer to this was that they dont care about new players in lol so probably wont bother in this game either, but they really definitely do care about new players in lol, its a huge focus and theyve made constant changes to help onboard new players, you currently get a pretty substantial amount of free champions, which can also be converted to their full price currency to use to buy other stuff instead. making an alt account now is fantastic because you can quite easily buy up even a decent chunk of the most expensive champs very quickly.

a much better comparison here would be tft, which is a newer riot game and which is, despite appearances, a card game. and their answer there has been... what basically amounts to rotation, by ditching nearly every unit from the first season for an entirely new set of units with new synergies and even new board features. this lets them create a brand new meta without worrying about legacy balancing issues, as well as doing a soft reset on knowledge which gives new players a chance to jump in for the first time while people are relearning what works. its def too early to know what runeterra will do but i think that claiming that riot simply dont care about onboarding new players and so any form of rotation or catch up xp wont happen isnt factually accurate given their other properties, and its much more likely that runeterra will also have attention paid towards how to keep onboarding new players as the game grows.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 04:01

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

the shark should be on the chariot

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 04:24

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

guts and bolts posted:

Early decks are falling off owing to a combination of increased collection sizes but also just familiarity with the game. It speaks to how generous the game is that acquiring both an RDW deck and something more thoughtful, and making them both feature complete, has been more than possible in less than two weeks. I sincerely disagree that there will be a "marked" difference in how well you do compared to someone with a full collection unless you are intending to compete with top-end constructed decks as soon as you press the Install button. Otherwise, there is very little stopping you from acquiring an extremely high amount of free cards and just building whatever you want; the main bottleneck is (and seems designed to be) Champions, and with how limited the cosmetic options are at present I fully believe they expect to make a decent amount of dosh from people shelling out the $10 to 3-of their favorite hero immediately. It's the rarities that would potentially clog up the system, but as long as most decks feature a majority of staples that are Common or Rare, you can expect to be able to field a deck that is competitive within a week of beginning play and that's assuming you haven't spent a dime. That is unbelievably forgiving, and assuming they'll add a rotation to make this even easier beggars belief.

Also, I conceded that Riot cares about new players, but not at the expense of older ones. There are skins in the vault that you can't get unless you were playing back in Ye Olde Dayse or on a specific holiday or during a specific season, and that's by design. They don't give away new heroes on release for new players or make them cheaper for newer accounts to buy. They don't randomly rotate heroes out because they're strong and new players might not have gotten the chance to play with/against them. I haven't been following closely enough, but competitive Overwatch is essentially attempting weekly rotations for their hero pool and people are loving rioting. I'm sticking by my guns here - if they include a rotation at any point in this game's lifespan, it will be to cull the sheer size of the hypothetical card pool, or to deal with power creep, and not because new players have smaller collections. I'll toxx on that.

The goal is to make money. While I'm sure Riot believes they can make beaucoup bucks on cosmetics for their TCG, I have the stronger suspicion that bottlenecking Champions/Epics the way they have was the real money-maker. Do you really wanna grind drafts until you have 3 Yasuos, or do you just wanna spend $10 and have them? By having the cash shop also consist of discretionary rewards, there's basically no reason why (even if you're a new player!) you can't get to making a competitive deck straight off. It just might run you $20 if you start playing in 2021. Seems fine?

i mean yes that is exactly what i mean, because someone with a full collection will be fielding top end decks... even people who suck will run for the most part meta decklists.

thats not true, you can still get them. the relative strength of heroes, with a few exceptions, is something within competitive and high elo and entirely irrelevant for new players and low elo, and you get to just... ban things.

they might not do a rotation, but i would expect them to do something to allow newer players to catch up if their aim is to limit card purchases and also not have the game be grindy. if not a rotation then accelerated xp or unlocks or even at some point making a certain base collection default. but i really doubt theyll just keep expanding and do none of those to help newer players keep up given how committed the games design is from the word go towards not penalising people who cant spend on cards or grind matches all day.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 05:36

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

i still think theyll either increase progression rates for newer accounts or similar at some point to avoid the game requiring excessive grinding to fill out a collection. rotation is just one way that you can do that, that also helpfully lets you adjust the meta at the same time.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 09:45

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

they should make autopass mandatory or, preferably, lower the turn timer

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 21:00

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

Eraflure posted:

Mandatory autopass would be terrible.

then make the timer shorter and make it speed up sooner for people sitting it out

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 21:14

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

just dont touch the harrowing

# ¿ Feb 5, 2020 00:08

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

sharks

# ¿ Feb 5, 2020 04:19

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

dont touch the harrowing

# ¿ Feb 5, 2020 04:23

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

Imagined posted:

Serious talk: how can you permanently deal with Commander Ledros right now? Even if you Deny his skill (GL if you're not playing Ionia) you're still looking at an 8/6 you can't chump block sitting on the board that you can't kill or recall without giving your opponent the opportunity to cut your life in half (rounded up!) again next turn, and the turn after that, and the turn after that. Not to mention anyone playing this guy is going to have at least three different ways to sac and recall him themselves. What the ever loving gently caress! I feel like if they nerfed him to remove the "return to your hand" ability he'd be alright, but as it is there really isn't way to deal with him unless you can somehow outrace him like mad.

frostbite into she who wanders is probably the only permanent way with detain next along

# ¿ Feb 9, 2020 22:21

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

when i made my first deck i used ledros in place of rhasa in whatever list i was using because i had ledros from a pack already, and it only took me a couple of games to realise i should probably just stick with ledros lol

# ¿ Feb 9, 2020 22:25

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

mistaya posted:

I've silenced detainers and it eats your unit (did not have a full board.)

Fun thing someone just tossed me out of expedition with, if you use Dawn and Dusk on Anivia it spawns two ephemeral Anivias, which die, and then respawn as eggs, which turn into not-Ephemeral Anivias. So the next turn you have three Enlightened Anivas spamming 6 damage across your entire board and nexus.

That was sure a thing.

Also I got my third Shen out of Expedition because I get Shen out of expedition every single loving week but I guess at least I can't get him again.

it doesnt work quite the same (the two extras do die the next turn) but you can use dawn and dusk on trynd before hes levelled up like this. i won my final expedition win doing this and then having the other player try and pop him with vengence before d and d went off, which just made things even worse for them

# ¿ Feb 13, 2020 03:14

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 21:27

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 11 days!

Qubee posted:

Overwhelm being able to smash through barrier is some huge amounts of bullshit. Someone threw a bunch of spells on a champ and got it up to 22 damage and I figured I had the best play cause I just threw barrier on my guy but overwhelm overwhelms magical barriers and logic itself.

the keyword says it negates the damage the unit would take. overwhelm is not damage the unit is taking and so doesnt get blocked.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2020 00:13

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