|
Pondex posted:Not sure about old norse, but modern Danish uses compound words. tam = tame Its a wonder we aren't more mutually intelligible really
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2021 06:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 07:50 |
|
|
Weka posted:Anglo-Saxon heathenry is presumably the cultural practices of the Anglo-Saxons who started immigrating in something like 4-500 AD. My understanding is that these were more aligned with German traditions, although I guess the differences are probably not as marked as they became later. You know, you're probably right. I just assessed the many immediate similarities (Odin as chief god, concepts like wyrd and frith, etc.) and thought "we" taught them. The faith definitely existed long before the Danelaw in many forms, and may as well have immigrated. No problem. There aren't any right now, but if they're cool with it I may take some. Pondex posted:Not sure about old norse, but modern Danish uses compound words. It's more or less the same. For the term swine, it's 'svín', and for sow, sýr and boar galti or galtr. Bilirubin posted:tam = tame I think I've mentioned before, but Scots speakers and southern jutland dialect speakers of Danish almost are.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2021 09:53
|
|
|
Tias posted:
North Jylland as well
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2021 10:08
|
|
|
Happynew years! I'll be back in 2022 with more heathenry.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2021 13:29
|
|
|
Bilirubin posted:tam = tame Great Vowel Shift, mostly,
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2021 15:53
|
|
|
Tias posted:I think I've mentioned before, but Scots speakers and southern jutland dialect speakers of Danish almost are. this checks out as I absolutely cannot understand a Glaswegian once they fully ramp up after a few pints Pondex posted:North Jylland as well ulmont posted:Great Vowel Shift, mostly, what is this? And to make it less of a derail, Happy New Year heathen thread, just back from a walk in the neighbourhood with the dog and I always linger in the wooded area for some spiritual refreshment
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 20:02
|
|
|
Bilirubin posted:what is this? To extremely oversimplify, before about 1400 English vowels were more or less the same as continental vowels. Then everyone decided to move them around in the mouth so that, for example: bite was originally pronounced as beet today; meat was originally pronounced as met today; boot was originally pronounced as boat today; and mate was originally pronounced as maht today. Now to tag in wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift posted:The Great Vowel Shift was a series of changes in the pronunciation of the English language that took place primarily between 1400 and 1700, beginning in southern England and today having influenced effectively all dialects of English. Through this vowel shift, the pronunciation of all Middle English long vowels was changed. This didn't affect Northern English in Scots in quite the same way, so those dialects retain closer to original continental vowel pronunciations and thus closer to Norse/etc. There has been a lot of work on this by English-speaking linguists, solet me just leave you with two videos for more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQNj4G5itkg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6YUEzylvp0 ulmont fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jan 2, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 21:02
|
|
|
ulmont posted:To extremely oversimplify, before about 1400 English vowels were more or less the same as continental vowels. Then everyone decided to move them around in the mouth so that, for example: cool thanks for this
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 21:41
|
|
|
That being said, as late as 1490, there were still remenants of the Viking presence in England. Caxton talks about a Northern English merchant in Southern England who asks a woman if he can buy some "egges" (derived from the old Norse), and she thinks he's speaking French, because she knows them as "eyern" (from the old English).quote:And he asked specifically for eggs, and the good woman said that she spoke no French, and the merchant got angry for he could not speak French either, but he wanted eggs and she could not understand him. And then at last another person said that he wanted ‘eyren’. Then the good woman said that she understood him well.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 22:09
|
|
|
Bilirubin posted:this checks out as I absolutely cannot understand a Glaswegian once they fully ramp up after a few pints Because it's the heathen thread I'll mention that being in the southern hemisphere I don't consider it the new year. I'm not a heathen just a conservative. Happy new year to you though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 06:28
|
|
|
Epicurius posted:That being said, as late as 1490, there were still remenants of the Viking presence in England. Caxton talks about a Northern English merchant in Southern England who asks a woman if he can buy some "egges" (derived from the old Norse), and she thinks he's speaking French, because she knows them as "eyern" (from the old English). Oh hell, even proper English has a bunch of words from Danish/Norse. My favorite is probably the word "Cross", which they inherited from Danish ("Kryds") via Ireland who had a long history of occupation. Prior to that, the correct Angle word for the cross was 'Rood'.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 10:14
|
|
|
Question for heathens: If you live in Australia, do you celebrate autumn rituals around Halloween, or do you do spring rituals then and autumn rituals in your autumn, aka the European spring?
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 12:53
|
|
|
Tias posted:Oh hell, even proper English has a bunch of words from Danish/Norse. My favorite is probably the word "Cross", which they inherited from Danish ("Kryds") via Ireland who had a long history of occupation. Prior to that, the correct Angle word for the cross was 'Rood'. The norse got it from the irish not visa versa.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2022 01:44
|
|
|
I got it completely reversed. Since the old Danish word is "Kryds" and the Angles said "Rood" beforehand, how could it come via the Irish?BattyKiara posted:Question for heathens: If you live in Australia, do you celebrate autumn rituals around Halloween, or do you do spring rituals then and autumn rituals in your autumn, aka the European spring? I'll have to owe you an answer. I don't even know if aboriginal and asian heathens have spring rituals (though I cannot imagine they wouldn't).
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2022 11:09
|
|
|
Tias posted:I got it completely reversed. Since the old Danish word is "Kryds" and the Angles said "Rood" beforehand, how could it come via the Irish? Thanks. What about Wiccans etc who live in the other hemisphere? What would you do if you were to live 2 years in South Africa, Tias? Stick with your fellow practitioners calendar, or follow nature?
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2022 12:31
|
|
|
Tias posted:I got it completely reversed. Since the old Danish word is "Kryds" and the Angles said "Rood" beforehand, how could it come via the Irish? Don't forget that the re-christianization of much of northern Europe after the fall of Rome was started from from Ireland. e.g. the abbey of St Gall in Switzerland was allegedly founded by /named after an Irish monk if I remember correctly. Also Kryds /Kreuz / cross probably has latin roots (crux).
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2022 16:03
|
|
|
Tias posted:I got it completely reversed. Since the old Danish word is "Kryds" and the Angles said "Rood" beforehand, how could it come via the Irish? I think the idea is Crux (Latin)--->Cros (Old Irish)--->Kross (Old Norse)---->Cross (English)
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2022 22:12
|
|
|
Over the course of your individual relationships with your God(s) of choice have any of you had interactions or experiences that might be called magical or paranormal? If so, how do you handle these things? I feel as though I am constantly questioning my own sanity. My main reassurance is that if I were totally off the deep end I probably wouldn't spend so much time afraid I'm off the deep end.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 01:32
|
|
|
BattyKiara posted:Thanks. What about Wiccans etc who live in the other hemisphere? What would you do if you were to live 2 years in South Africa, Tias? Stick with your fellow practitioners calendar, or follow nature? The answer is likely always to follow nature  That said, I gain my knowledge experientially, and would probably start off by asking the land spirits what they thought, as well as any local pre-christians. I'd then hold their answers up to each other, and/or do my own ceremonial tests.Witching Hour posted:Over the course of your individual relationships with your God(s) of choice have any of you had interactions or experiences that might be called magical or paranormal? Only talking for myself, here: I think we'd do well to define magic and normal, first. Like most animists (I hope!), I consider my experiences as part and parcel of the natural sciences. I am, to some extent, a natural creation, and my consciousness can create these amazing and otherworldly experiences, so it must be of the natural world, right? I use the land spirits to aid me, give me luck and heal mental challenges in myself or others, and I go get my COVID booster shot to protect my immune system afterwards. There are no contradictions to solve. So to answer, yes, I probably have had magical experiences, when I enter the otherworldly state of consciousness, see worlds that do not, and cannot, exist in this world, and bargain with spirits for knowledge that is not part of this world either. However, I am also a mental health patient, and I feel quite confident in placing sanity and magic on opposite sides of a border. Not to say that good magic can't bring you "out of it", give you the lunar crazies or remove your inhibitions, but outside of dealing with dead people and malevolent spirits, it shouldn't make you unequivocally depressed or terrified. quote:If so, how do you handle these things? I feel as though I am constantly questioning my own sanity. My main reassurance is that if I were totally off the deep end I probably wouldn't spend so much time afraid I'm off the deep end. It really depends. Can you trust your feelings or instincts? I know when I'm being tormented by memories of my past and my cognitive impairment, at least most of the time - but, say, a person with paranoid schizophrenia cannot trust their feelings, as psychotic episodes feel more real than their lucid episodes. I'd be happy to opine more on this, but it's hard to know without knowing more about you, and I don't expect you to share such information in public.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 08:40
|
|
|
Witching Hour posted:Over the course of your individual relationships with your God(s) of choice have any of you had interactions or experiences that might be called magical or paranormal? If so, how do you handle these things? I feel as though I am constantly questioning my own sanity. My main reassurance is that if I were totally off the deep end I probably wouldn't spend so much time afraid I'm off the deep end. What does it mean though, to be off the deep end? I'm a novice in this field but I kind of consider all ideas and experiences to be real. As real as anything tangible, if not real in the same way. We live against this backdrop of scientific rationalism which is pretty great when there's a pandemic going on. And I wouldn't seek out a shaman if I had appendicitis, you know? But there's a dogmatic side to it where; if it can't be weighed or measured, it must be rejected. It doesn't exist. And you're the weirdo for believing your own experience. But ideas about contact with other worlds are everywhere in mythology/shamanism. So it's probably not that weird when it comes down to it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 15:09
|
|
|
It's not any weirder than a lot of the other beliefs all people have, even if they don't consider those beliefs irrational or mystical or supernatural. "If I just do X, then Y will definitely happen" or even the idea of luck as a tangible force. The human mind is primed to notice patterns and ascribe meaning to them, it's fundamental to how we function. To some people, that's spiritual in nature, to others it signifies that a rational explanation exists and can be found. Neither is invalid, but may also never give you a proper answer. And even if something exists only in your mind - or at least cannot be absolutely proven to exist outside of it - that certainly doesn't make it meaningless. Asking questions and being aware of the tricky nature of your own mind is a very good sign that you're not off the deep end, it just means that you critically evaluate new information
KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jan 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 15:18
|
|
|
I very much appreciate all three of your answers, thank you. Those are helpful things to think about.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 17:01
|
|
|
Hey I got a question that maybe is not so much Norse Heathenry specific, but this thread feels like the best place to ask: I used to work at a library where one of my guilty plasures were to often skim the books I was handling if they looked interesting. I don't recall the title of this particular book I'm thinking of, but it sounded pretty Norse-like and it seemed to have a lot of advices on how to live a good life as a viking that I felt resonated with me somehow. The only advice I can still, sort of, remember said that when you enter a meadhall where you are the guest, always choose to sit at the table where people crack jokes at each other, and stay away from the table where people are glum and don't crack jokes. Does anyone know what book this could be, or what it is referencing? I used to take pictures of all the cool books so I could borrow them later but this one seems to have slipped through the cracks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 03:19
|
|
|
Dumb Sex-Parrot posted:Hey I got a question that maybe is not so much Norse Heathenry specific, but this thread feels like the best place to ask: That sounds a lot like the Havamal
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 10:26
|
|
|
Probably the Hávamál or a presentation of same. For instance, stanza 27: For the unwise man 'tis best to be mute when he come amid the crowd, for none is aware of his lack of wit if he wastes not too many words; for he who lacks wit shall never learn though his words flow ne'er so fast. The two first collections are rules for guests and maxims for all men, respectively.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:09
|
|
|
Tias, do you know any material about "digesting" or integrating your lessons/knowledge after a mystical experience? I'm talking about a mushroom-trip specifically here. But it was such an intensely shamanic experience that I figure it fits in this thread.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2022 12:30
|
|
|
Quite a lot, actually, since I stood in training with peruvian and lakota shamans, who use plant medicines for that exact purpose! The answer is going to be convolutated, and with the caveat that hard work awaits (sorry!): Once you've been told something by a plant spirit, in this case assuming psilocybe, and I'm guessing semilanceata or cubensis, it's your job to keep that communication and learning process going. That means going to the shamanic state of consciousness, usually without drug help, and seeking out either the plant itself* in the otherworld and asking what exactly your experience meant**. Journeying without drugs is done either by using a rattle or drums to shift your consciousness, and is something that takes practice and instruction. Some have taught themselves using Michael Harners Way of the Shaman, but it's a lot easier with a teacher. If this seems too daunting( though I recommend learning it, drugs are inherently more confusing and more dangerous than using your inner sight), you can approach a learned shaman and ask them to journey on your behalf. This works as well, though it may cost you something. I hope that helps, otherwise let me know and I'll be happy to answer your questions. * not strictly necessary. Perhaps a spirit allied to the mushroom or one of your tutelary spirits will help you out with this instead. ** remember to phrase questions as concretely and precisely as you can. Some spirits will faf around and give you more questions if you let them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2022 12:35
|
|
|
I'm kind of busy with my bachelor's dissertation (writing about Viking Halls!), but this thread is around if anyone needs it. We just held our midsummer blót, sacrificing largely to the vanir: Frej, Freja, Njord and Brage!
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2022 10:04
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2022 10:57
|
|
|
We've reached August, or Høstmåne (Harvest Moon) in my native Danish. The anglo-saxons called this Weōdmōnaþ (my own translation would be "Weed-month", the significance of which I am not certain of). I suppose old norse would have it be Haustmaní. As the names implies, this was when the harvest was brought in, and so the time to conserve, pickle and dry/salt even up to modern times. As a modern heathen, I would also say that this is the time to store up the energies of spring and summer, and take the fires of the sun with us into dark times. Traditionally, this is where Danes would drink the last beer from Thors month (Google St. Olavs day for more on the similarities between heathen and christian practices in the medieval period). Rye was the staple crop in this period, and a lot of rituals were observed around respecting the divine grain. We know of a scant few today, like how farmers would take off their shoes when walking on the load, similar to how Moses would remove his shoes in the presence of God! The first load was carried to the barns in absolute silence, and only the villages first lady would be able to close it off and lock the door. Of course, a heathen taking the earths bounty would understand that this action requires immediate reciprocation, and so villages would always leave gifts in the field. This could take many forms depending on the area, some places it was straw figures reminiscient of Odin and his horse Sleipnir, and in southern Denmark the recipient seems to have been symbolized by a golden pig. Other subjects of the gift would be the land wights and the elves, perhaps personified by Freyr as the light-elf and lord of the elves. In other places, apples were left on the tree for Freja, who was said to collect them come Jul. Particular significance was placed on the first and the last sheaf of grain, as mentioned above. Some would be bound beautifully with red ribbons and saved for the horses of the wild hunt, others would be given to the cattle, both around Jul as well. Sometimes it was baked into a Jule cake that went on a jule-altar and could not be eaten before the last day of Jul. Sometimes it would be made into a wreath and worn by a woman, who then personified the grain. It could also be bound into an effigy, know as the "Rye/Barley Hag", adorned with flowers and and placed somewhere it would be eaten by animals. At times it was specifically sexualized and known as Fissemor (lit. "oval office-Mother"). In Värmland, it was personified as a masculine figure instead. It would be placed in the bed of the lady of the house, and after a symbolic, ritual intercourse, it would be carried like a symbolic pregnancy, and eventually produce a child in the form of a magic and sacred bread, the entire family and all the animals of the farmstead would share. As for our blót-guild, we will have a blót to the moon come saturday (the first time after the full moon where we have time to meet).
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 07:41
|
|
|
Really interesting. Please write more of these. My Granny told me that when you pick fruit off a tree or berries off a bush, always leave one behind. As a gift to the "invisibles" and to show gratitude in hope of an even better harvest next grow cycle.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 14:34
|
|
|
Tias posted:The anglo-saxons called this Weōdmōnaþ (my own translation would be "Weed-month", the significance of which I am not certain of). I think the idea was that this is the month where weeds and grass grow most.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2022 16:23
|
|
|
Checks out. e: I did some digging, and a monk in the anglo-saxon chronicles confirms: "The month of Agustus we call the weed month in our language, for these grow most in this month.” e e: The Venerable Bede as well: "Vueod-Monath is the month of weeds, as this is the time when they grow most abundantly”
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2022 09:16
|
|
|
BattyKiara posted:Really interesting. Please write more of these. Where in the world is your Granny from (if you're okay with replying here, you can always PM)? These traditions are not only shared by people all over the world, but are probably the only way we can reimagine humanity in a loving and reciprocal relationship with the forces of nature before it's too late. Also, thanks! I will make one come September once my bachelor craziness is over, though it's not as "active" a month, considering the lull of autumn. However, important ceremonies take place there as well.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 08:48
|
|
|
My Granny was Romany. Of the kalderash variety. Deeply religious, called herself a christian, but her faith was not at all ortodox in any religion. She was extremely strict when it came to various purity rites, did not care for priests or judges of any kind, HATED nuns, and claimed that "Longwinded prayers with too many words give Jesus a headache!" I could probably make a VERY long list of all her marime (purity) rules. Some sort of make sense, most are weird superstitions with origins lost to time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 13:34
|
|
|
BattyKiara posted:My Granny was Romany. Of the kalderash variety. Deeply religious, called herself a christian, but her faith was not at all ortodox in any religion. She was extremely strict when it came to various purity rites, did not care for priests or judges of any kind, HATED nuns, and claimed that "Longwinded prayers with too many words give Jesus a headache!" That sounds neat as can be and like some kind of syncretism with Christianity and older, local beliefs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 13:43
|
|
|
Really jealous of everybody who was able to go to Midgardsblot last week, but I’m making up for it by finding as many English language Archaeology Masters programs to apply to as I can. I’m taking Swedish this year and debating with myself if there’s any way I could possibly cram enough language knowledge to apply to some of the more numerous Swedish/Danish language programs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2022 22:15
|
|
|
Internet Wizard posted:Really jealous of everybody who was able to go to Midgardsblot last week, but I’m making up for it by finding as many English language Archaeology Masters programs to apply to as I can. Don't mention the loving raid. I had to cancel my attendance and sell my tickets for peanuts. Missed the best line up ever (Batushka, Eivør, Wardruna, Heilung, Zeal and Ardor, Nytt Land AND Runahild!?), and this year they also got loving northern lights over the festival site  Eh, let me know if you do. I'm in Copenhagen, and probably won't move beyond sjælland for the foreseeable future.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2022 13:21
|
|
|
The summer blóts are well concluded, and the great harvest blót is coming up. Traditionally, Danish homes held a great celebration around Michaelmas at the end of September, possibly indicative of an earlier feast to Thor. Shared meals and shared drinks were common, and horses also had a special role around this season. Horse races were common, particularly in Norway, and is thought to be connected to fertility and so to Frejr. However, into the winter months these associations become darker and linked to the worship of Odin instead. This eventually turned into an association with the devil. Legends even tell of ghost stallions showing up at the horse races in December. Our own harvest blót means everyone sacrifice something they built or grew themselves, and we take out a statue of Frejr and break an egg on his wang (yes, for real). Tias fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Sep 4, 2022 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2022 14:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 07:50 |
|
|
So I went to a really good lecture about “The Many Masks of Odin” by Annette Lassen at Lejre museum last night! Quick term breakdown: Lejre, a sleepy Danish city of 3,100 inhabitants - also home to the magnificient King’s Hall reconstruction that I did my bachelor’s dissertation about - can with a bit of cheek be described as the ancestral home of viking kings. As disparate texts at Beowulf and Hrólf Krakes Saga describe Lejre, or Hleithra as the seat of heathen Danish kingship. Annette Lassen is my academic crush, a classic and norse filologist who straight up loving translated all the Icelandic sagas into modern Danish in her off time, which is so cool that I’m getting vapours  Her lecture focused on the presence of Odin in texts only, which is to say, where he shows up in mostly medieval litterature. As most of you probably know, we get a lot of the stories in Snorris Edda (also known as the Younger Edda), which is basically a manual of skaldic vocabulary. Snorri himself was a christian artist and politician, and in order to teach people the kennings they needed to write proper poetry, and a great deal of these regard the heathen past. A quick word from the wiki for kenning encapsulates the idea: quote:A kenning (Modern Icelandic: [cʰɛnːiŋk]) is a figure of speech in the type of circumlocution, a compound that employs figurative language in place of a more concrete single-word noun. Kennings are strongly associated with Old Norse-Icelandic and Old English poetry. They continued to be a feature of Icelandic poetry (including rímur) for centuries, together with the closely related heiti. You’ll make a fool of yourself at court if you can’t even say “I drink of Odin-Mead” instead of “I’m going to tell you a good poem now”, and we can’t have that, even if the ideas the kenning refers to are those of heathen infidels! As I’ve complained about before, Snorri is the reason we know precious little about actual heathen belief, and A LOT about what christians were taught to believe about heathens. For instance, all of Gylfaginning is just a charicature of a dumb heathen peasant king (from SWEDEN, to cap it off!  ) being kinda hoodwinked by three scheming asian dudes who are all named kennings for Odin. Snorris Edda in general is characterized by a lot of oblique references to the coming of Jesus and Heaven that will put an end to all this pagan nonsense, which is a shame, because there are a lot of pearls hidden in there. In many other sagas, Odin is clearly just a metaphor for capital-S Satan - as in the (brilliant, by the way) Saga of Hrolf Krake, where he keeps showing up and kind of offers Hrolf lovely gifts, which Krake denies, and then later he is seen “floating as a demon” above the undead army of Skuld. Not a good look, and probably not the way he’d be seen prior to christianity, but who knows, really.Another thing Snorri has brought to the table is interpretation. For example, we all know Odin gave his right eye and threw it into Mimirs well to gain knowledge, right? Not really, that’s from the Prose Edda. The eddic poem it’s based on in the Vóluspa doesn’t necessarily mention any of this, depending on which book you find it in. In the kongssagas (particularly the well known Volsungsaga, from which we get the Wagna opera about Sigfried et al) it’s another matter. Here Odin is thought to be a man, who quite concretely settled in Sweden while on the run from the armies of Pompey Magnus! He dies of old age, but is mistakenly worshipped by the kings of Sweden, and so from here his cult runs. This is one explanation from the christian authors of why heathenry is made up - another, more interesting one, is in the Prose Edda as well: Here Snorri relates that every regional pagan religion happened during the Fall of the Tower of Babel. The pure word - christianity - was broken up into 72 languages, and from each language, a polytheist pagan faith developed. This is also why, he notes, that it is not a problem to equate Odin with Zeus or Týr with Mars, for they are the same thing. So what is the “core” of the textual Odin? Two things only: Wisdom and disguise. Anything else seems to be tacked on to make a retorical point, usually about how Jesus is cool and good and Odin isn’t.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2022 12:40
|
|