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UnknownMercenary
Oct 31, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD


hatelull posted:

You guys got gear recommendations for a DPS centric AR/Rifle build? I'm cool with an LMG instead of a rifle, but I just haven't found much luck finding any decent weapons.

Right now I'm loving around with a FAMAS and a Socom M1A and it's just ... OK. I seem to get my poo poo pushed in regularly on heroic. I can put ammo into targets no problem, they just don't seem to be dropping fast enough to make any difference. Last night I was with a random group trying to do the Zoo on Challenging. I think this was the raided, or post game version because it was Black Tusk with a fuckton of doggos and that godawful Mortar in one of the early areas that has ridiculously precise aim. Jesus that was rough. I had to bail on it around the Gamma Team thanks to real world responsibilities. Still regret that /quit this morning.

Gear wise, I'm playing around with 3 providence, 2 fenris, and a ceska. I'd love to find some Fox's Prayer kneepads and some Contractor's gloves, but with my current damage output soloing the upper levels to farm that stuff is herculean to the point of impossible. Talent wise, I'm using composure and the one that pops your armor back up when low with a 90s cooldown? On the guns, boomerang (which I regret because my crit chance is around 39% so I might switch it back to Lucky Shot) and Optimist (which seems ok, save for the small rear end magazine).

So ... help me increase my damage output?

I'll just link my previous post on this subject https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...0#post505341445

The main takeaway is that you'll have to give up Unbreakable for a damage talent on your chest piece. Even post-buff, ARs are in the situation where they have pretty high burst DPS, but it's not quite going to be enough without some sort of damage talent. LMGs and the M1A Classic can get away without it because LMGs have good sustained DPS and the M1AC is just laughably broken.

Shumagorath posted:

What happened to Eagle Bearer? Can't say I'm disappointed if it got nerfed since when it was released it was all I ever saw in the Dark Zone.

To add to what Psion said, when the Eagle Bearer was released it had like the highest per shot damage and shot faster than the AK, and the old version of Tenacity came with a huge damage buff (like 30%) which was triggered off of a headshot kill.

The result was that it was a really loving good gun that absolutely dominated every aspect of the game and you could make any mishmash of gear work as long as it was paired with the Eagle Bearer.

Eventually they tuned down the base damage and tuned up the damage bonus from Tenacity, but the gun was still very strong.

What we've ended up with in post-WONY is a pretty decent gun with a good (not great) mix of stats and the current version of Tenacity is of questionable utility. All Tenacity does now is reduce incoming damage for 10 seconds, and then you take full damage after. You can reduce the debuff by getting kills while the talent is active, but given that the gun has no damage boosting talent, it's hard to pull off on higher difficulty.

UnknownMercenary fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jun 5, 2020

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Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010



hatelull posted:

You guys got gear recommendations for a DPS centric AR/Rifle build? I'm cool with an LMG instead of a rifle, but I just haven't found much luck finding any decent weapons.

Right now I'm loving around with a FAMAS and a Socom M1A and it's just ... OK. I seem to get my poo poo pushed in regularly on heroic. I can put ammo into targets no problem, they just don't seem to be dropping fast enough to make any difference. Last night I was with a random group trying to do the Zoo on Challenging. I think this was the raided, or post game version because it was Black Tusk with a fuckton of doggos and that godawful Mortar in one of the early areas that has ridiculously precise aim. Jesus that was rough. I had to bail on it around the Gamma Team thanks to real world responsibilities. Still regret that /quit this morning.

Gear wise, I'm playing around with 3 providence, 2 fenris, and a ceska. I'd love to find some Fox's Prayer kneepads and some Contractor's gloves, but with my current damage output soloing the upper levels to farm that stuff is herculean to the point of impossible. Talent wise, I'm using composure and the one that pops your armor back up when low with a 90s cooldown? On the guns, boomerang (which I regret because my crit chance is around 39% so I might switch it back to Lucky Shot) and Optimist (which seems ok, save for the small rear end magazine).

So ... help me increase my damage output?

Your weapon selection would probably be the first thing to change. Even if the current name of the game is burst fire I don't think the high RPM assault rifles do enough, particularly the FAMAS itself. Personally I very much prefer the G36/416/Mk16/ACR families. Optimist on an AR is fine though if you find a better one with Strained then 40% critical chance will make that work as well. Both talents do pretty much the same thing.

As for the Socom M1A, Rifles in general are not in a great spot right now between enemy health and their damage. However the exception is the Classic M1A which does somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1.5-2 times as much damage per shot as any of the other rifles. The Mk17 doesn't do nearly as much as the Classic M1A but it still does more than the other Rifles and comes with no downsides compared to them.*** Boomerang works great once you get near the critical chance cap but yeah at 40% its probably not as good.

One thing some people overlook is the minor stat roll on weapons. Ideally you want this to be Out of Cover Damage. Damage to Armor is the second choice. In any case Out of Cover Damage is actually quite important for doing more damage. I can accept critical chance on specific builds but otherwise one of the other two should always be there if given the choice.

***Next patch will be reducing both the Classic M1A and Mk17's damage. All other Rifles (except the MDR for some reason???) will be getting a damage boost. In fact most weapons in all classes will be getting a damage boost so this advice may change but I still think most of the better weapons now will remain the better weapons.

The "easiest" thing to change on your armor would be switching one of the Fenris pieces for one Overlord piece if you're using Rifles. It may not be a Fox's Prayer but its still more Rifle damage.

Contractor's gloves, if you find them, with the right minor attributes is also more valuable than 10% AR damage or 10% rifle damage.

Coyote's Mask from the season track or from killing Jupiter in the manhunt is basically the best gun mask in the game right now if you are focused on critical hits. It combines quite well with Boomerang on Rifles because you're going to be shooting from further away so you're going to get at least a 10% critical chance bonus (25% if you're even further away).

As for minor attributes you should be focused on critical chance and critical damage as much as possible on a gun build but I think armor regeneration does have a pretty good place in PVE. It will not save you while you're getting shot but with enough of it (3 or 4 attributes) you can stay in cover for a few seconds and have enough armor again to do stuff like run to new cover, kill a guy who's almost dead, briefly survive a flank. Staying alive for longer is its own kind of DPS increase. That said if you have Unbreakable armor regen is less necessary and can be switched for even more critical chance and damage.

Try to have your mod slots (mask, chest, backpack) on a brand with an Offensive slot. Getting 4-6% critical chance times 3 or 9-12% more critical damage times 3 (or something in between) is way more important to you than defensive or utility/skill bonuses.

Unbreakable is good, not going to tell you not to use it because of what I just said above about armor regen but if you do want to do more damage with a gun build then the more conventional choices for a chest talent are either Obliterate (up to 15% damage if you land enough critical hits in the timer) or Overwatch (12% increase after 10 seconds as long as you stay in cover or do a cover-to-cover move). Glass Cannon is a pretty big damage increase but you will take way more damage and requires a change in how you play. Focus is also a big damage increase but you will have to be aiming down a scope to get the bonus so you tend to get tunnel vision.

I think Composure is the best "conventional" choice on the backpack but if you want the "best" backpack damage talent then you need Vigilance. Only having a 25% increase when you haven't taken damage for 4 seconds sounds like it won't happen a lot but it will actually be turned on more than you would think. Concussion, Unstoppable Force, and Versatile all work too but require more effort to build up to their potential. It's easier to just enter cover (Composure) or not get shot (Vigilance).

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



Kibayasu posted:


Coyote's Mask from the season track or from killing Jupiter in the manhunt is basically the best gun mask in the game right now if you are focused on critical hits. It combines quite well with Boomerang on Rifles because you're going to be shooting from further away so you're going to get at least a 10% critical chance bonus (25% if you're even further away).


I've killed Jupiter (I got the sticky EMP bomb skill) but I didn't get the mask? Does it drop every time? Granted, it wasn't in my game. I had answered the call and joined a group that was steam rolling the man hunt.

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


Since I love pain... is solo-DZ worth doing and has the meta game become less pathological than Health + AR spam? That Eagle Bearer comment should tell you how long ago I last played.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002



Shumagorath posted:

Since I love pain... is solo-DZ worth doing and has the meta game become less pathological than Health + AR spam? That Eagle Bearer comment should tell you how long ago I last played.

right now no. I'm right there with you, as I solo DZed a lot but TU9 DZ does not impress and the loot just isn't there so I haven't in quite a while. Good for SHD levels, though.

I very much hope they make a NYC DZ 2.0 and make it one, larger DZ.

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010



hatelull posted:

I've killed Jupiter (I got the sticky EMP bomb skill) but I didn't get the mask? Does it drop every time? Granted, it wasn't in my game. I had answered the call and joined a group that was steam rolling the man hunt.

Yeah itís likely a reward for personally finishing the manhunt.

UnknownMercenary
Oct 31, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD


hatelull posted:

I've killed Jupiter (I got the sticky EMP bomb skill) but I didn't get the mask? Does it drop every time? Granted, it wasn't in my game. I had answered the call and joined a group that was steam rolling the man hunt.

It's a manhunt reward. Jupiter (and each of the other targets) will drop a seasonal named item, and Jupiter herself always drops a Coyote's mask, but only if your personal manhunt progress is active for those targets. So if you just tag along for someone's else's manhunt but you also don't have those targets active, you won't get any of the special rewards.

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



UnknownMercenary posted:

It's a manhunt reward. Jupiter (and each of the other targets) will drop a seasonal named item, and Jupiter herself always drops a Coyote's mask, but only if your personal manhunt progress is active for those targets. So if you just tag along for someone's else's manhunt but you also don't have those targets active, you won't get any of the special rewards.

Well, that sucks. I guess I could always solo the manhunt in normal mode. The mask drops regardless I reckon.

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


Psion posted:

I very much hope they make a NYC DZ 2.0 and make it one, larger DZ.
Extremely

I guess I shouldn't complain if everything is ARs and health damage since I found a near-perfect Chameleon today with crit chance

BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000

Rodents of unusual size? I don't think they exist.

Fun Shoe

I would love to see how much of a hellscape the original game's area has become in the time since. Like Haven is built within the walls of an old Dark Zone, how bad did midtown get where that was the best place to go?

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010



hatelull posted:

Well, that sucks. I guess I could always solo the manhunt in normal mode. The mask drops regardless I reckon.

Likely. The attribute rolls will probably better on higher difficulties though.

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Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


BattleMaster posted:

I would love to see how much of a hellscape the original game's area has become in the time since. Like Haven is built within the walls of an old Dark Zone, how bad did midtown get where that was the best place to go?
Just make it full of D1 agents who found out how WoNY ends.

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